Russian Space Weapon


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QuarterBoreGunner
May 5, 2003, 01:54 PM
But it's not what you think...

From CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/05/05/soyuz.landings.ap/index.html)

'In 1976, a Soyuz spacecraft came down in a freezing squall and splashed into a lake; the crew spent the night bobbing in the capsule.

Eleven years before that, two cosmonauts overshot their touchdown site by 2,000 miles and found themselves deep in a forest with hungry wolves. That's when Russian space officials decided to pack a sawed-off shotgun aboard every spacecraft.'

Emphasis mine.

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PATH
May 5, 2003, 02:15 PM
I honestly don't know of any verified story where wolves attacked people. They usually are very standoffish. A shotgun though may not be such a bad idea in the middle of the boonies when help is far off.

Navy joe
May 5, 2003, 02:18 PM
Can't do that over here, it would only be a matter of time before someone smuggled the first clay birds and AA shells into space. Hey, they played golf on the moon, why not a little trap?

Joe Demko
May 5, 2003, 02:30 PM
Early space missions here in the US had a Randall knife on board, later replaced by a stainless steel sawback machete. There are photos around that also show ealy astronauts wearing a shoulder holster holding a S&W 9mm. They never actually wore one into space, AFAIK, probably due to concerns about how the propellant, grip plastic, etc. might behave in a high-O2 atmosphere. Outgassing of plastics and such was a major concern for NASA back in the 60's. Later, they found that they had been needlessly paranoid about it. The Russkis just used off the shelf items and got along fine.

PATH
May 5, 2003, 02:44 PM
I love the Russians for their pragmatic use of firearms. Makle it simple, make it work, make lots of them. They put a shotgun on board. Here we'd have liberals screaming about guns in space.
"Guns in Space", sounds like the title for a movie!

Bonker
May 5, 2003, 03:25 PM
"I honestly don't know of any verified story where wolves attacked people."

Well I can tell you first hand that my family was attacked by a HUGE pack of silver Colorado wolves a few years ago.
They came at us all night and never let up. I could tell you story after story about that night.

PATH
May 5, 2003, 04:02 PM
Bonker,

We have coyotes up here in New York but nothing approaching a wolf. What happened? What were the circumstances? I was unaware of any type of attacks in the lower 48. Had these wolves been imprinted to see people as a food source. Should that be the case the animals need to be put down as they would be dangerous as hell. Most importantly I hope everything turned out okay!

benEzra
May 5, 2003, 07:57 PM
Wolf pack kills mountain lion . . .
Last month, another team of WCS researchers discovered another carnivore oddity, when they learned that a mountain lion they were tracking in Yellowstone National Park had been attacked and killed by a pack of wolves.
<http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-05/wcs-wpa050503.php>

As far as guns in space, I believe the firearm in the emergency kit aboard Soyuz spacecraft is now a handgun, but I'm not sure what kind.

bE

Kharn
May 5, 2003, 08:03 PM
I wonder why they went to a handgun, a Krinkov probably would have been better suited for the job. Only reason I can think of is they were worried the crew couldnt lift the Krinkov after a long duration in space.

Kharn

mrmeangenes
May 5, 2003, 08:52 PM
:scrutiny: Oh ye of little faith !

I recall quite distinctly a situation in 1950-1951 - in the area of Lake George,New York , in which an ice fisherman on the Lake was pursued by wolves, and narrowly escaped becoming din-din .

I'm sure the gentleman ( who probably earned many a free brew before going to his reward ) would have been delighted to have had even a sawed-off scattergun on hand !:D

benEzra
May 5, 2003, 09:01 PM
I wonder why they went to a handgun, a Krinkov probably would have been better suited for the job. Only reason I can think of is they were worried the crew couldnt lift the Krinkov after a long duration in space.
Possibly space and weight considerations. A Makarov (for example) would be an easier fit in a cramped space capsule than even a Krinkov would (although any self-respecting cosmonaut would rather have the Krinkov.:D)

tex_n_cal
May 5, 2003, 10:28 PM
I think it was in his book Maneaters that Peter Capstick (hardly an anti-hunter) stated that he'd never been able to find a verifiable case in North America of a wolf attack. Europe, however, was a totally different story - man and wolf had lived together on that continent for several hundred thousand years, and European wolves defintely did dine on man every chance they could get.

I also noticed that blurb about the sawed off shotgun! Pity they didn't shoot some quail or something & have a BBQ while waiting for the chopper.:)

I'm glad it turned out well - you know that couple of hours they were looking for the capsule had to take several years of life apiece off several dozen NASA guys.

The quote from our astronaut - something like, "it was a very interesting test flight experience", has to be one of the all time classic understatements:D

billybaus
May 5, 2003, 10:41 PM
HELLO, THIS IS RUSSIAN SPACE STATION, I AM NOT GAS STATION........ :neener:

gota love that armagedon flick, i think also moon rover things should have miniguns :evil:

CB900F
May 6, 2003, 12:00 AM
Path;

Go to Google, put up 'wolf attack'. Pull the T.R. Mader hit.
900F

Double Naught Spy
May 6, 2003, 01:43 AM
While the cosmonauts may have taken a shotgun into space, it was not a space weapon. It is a terra firma weapon with the purpose to give the cosmonauts a tool with which to handle ground dangers at bay until help arrives.

As for the confusion about wolf attacks, Capstick's inability to find any verified cases of wolf attacks on humans is problematic. Either he did not know where to find the information on such incidents, did poor research, or chose to ignore the data in order to support his claim. It may not be all his fault as no doubt that many such attacks don't get reported to any of the proper people who keep records on such events. See...

http://www.wolfpark.org/Articles/Wyman.html

http://www.rangemagazine.com/stories/winter02/wolf.htm

http://www.paragonpowerhouse.org/woman_encounters_mexican_wolves.htm

or check out these links for more examples...
montanalife.tripod.com/wolves/human_attacks.htm

http://www.usa4id.com/Documents/Documented%20Human%20Wolf%20Attacks.htm

PATH
May 6, 2003, 02:20 AM
Hybrid Wolf/dog attacks are rather frequent acording to what I have read. Rabid wolves will also attack.

Habituation which causes wolves to lose their fear of humans is a bad thing. A young hungry male may see a human as a tasty morsel apparently.

The literature shows that indeed there are cases of wolf attacks on people. Regardless of the reason wolves must therefore be looked upon as a possible threat albeit a small one.

Black Bear attacks were rare in New York according to the DEC yet a child was killed just north of me in the Catskills. The child was taken from its carriage. Again it was a young male of that species.

A wolf is a wild carnivore and while it may be unlikely to attack that does not preclude the fact that it darn well may. In the end people come before wolves so I say shoot if necessary!

Thank you fo the heads up people!

tex_n_cal
May 6, 2003, 03:11 AM
Well, I guess I will then have to be more careful, the next time I am up in the northern U.S. - did a bit of hiking once near the Canadian border and hoped I'd get to see wolves. I met some domesticated wolves once, and they were just exquisite creatures, gorgeous powdery silver coats. Very shy animals - even with the owner encouraging them, and me sitting on the ground in a very non-threatening posture, they would not approach me.

'Round here, it's bears & lions, and there ain't much question they bite. That scandium .44 ain't looking so bad, come to think of it...

Hey, wait a minute! How come the space capsule doesn't have a gun made from "space age" materials? Oh wait, I know - A scandium Smith .44 costs more than a Soyuz:scrutiny:

Ol' Badger
May 6, 2003, 08:44 AM
Mini-Guns on a Moon Rover! HAHAHAHAHA.
How about a Moon Hummer with a .50 cal onboard Yea Baby!
But if ET's look like they do in Close Incounters I'll just ring their skinny necks. Wont need a gun.:D

billybaus
May 6, 2003, 10:01 AM
hehehe , i still can't figure out what they were planning on running into on that asteroid that would require a minigun....

GKings1
May 6, 2003, 10:37 AM
I couldn't figure out why they would want the minigun too. The rovers were originally headed for Mars, as I recall. What did they think, Marshians were going to attach them? And how did they get approval for those guns anyway?

mtnbkr
May 6, 2003, 12:13 PM
I honestly don't know of any verified story where wolves attacked people. They usually are very standoffish.

Tim Sundles (Buffalo Bore ammo and Sixgunner.com member) was attacked when he and his wife were on a backcountry camping trip (complete with pack horses, etc). He had a website that detailed the experience, but I can't remember the address.

Chris

Bonker
May 6, 2003, 12:24 PM
PATH,

We got hired by a very rich guy to map out 10,000 acres he had purchased in the Colorado mountains.
There were no roads and it took 3 days to drive in and out in 4-wheel drive jeeps.
There were 3 families total including ours.

The first night, the women left some food out when we went to bed. Big mistake.

The growls started around midnight when the fire went dim.

There were about 25-30 BIG wolves. I am told that is a very unusual size for a pack.

They mostly just wanted our food but the certainly did attack us for it.

It was near impossible to get a good shot in the total darkness. There was no moon/stars that night.

We also thought that shooting wolves would be illegal so we didn't try to kill them unless a life was in danger.

When we got into town and told the story, we were informed of the $75 bounty that was paid per pelt. DOH!

The wolves stopped coming at dawn. The womend and kids stayed in the tents, zipped up, and were just fine.

The men kept the wolves away and no man, nor wolf was hurt.

The only close call was with my dad. His mini-14 ran out of ammo just as a big male was coming for him. He got a little panicked (hard to imagine for a Nam vet!) and backed up, step by step, to my old 22mag bolt action that was 30 feet away on our trailer. He was oblivious to his trusted 44 S&W magnum he was wearing on his hip. All he could think about was the rifle :)

All in all it was VERY exciting but my mom will never go camping again I can promise you.

A sidenote, the next day we surveyed the damage done to vehicles and equipment and we found a 4" thick tree that had been pused over with some big claws. So not only did we have wolves, but we also had a big black bear letting us know that we were tresspassing in his backyard :)

280PLUS
May 6, 2003, 08:49 PM
oh my!

:what:

PATH
May 7, 2003, 12:32 AM
Well I will pay close attention to my surroundings when in Wold country from now on! Thanks for the reply Bonker.

billybaus
May 7, 2003, 12:43 AM
they needed that nose mounted minigun.......pesky wolves

atek3
May 7, 2003, 01:02 AM
If i was going to bring a gun into space it would have to have the most High-tech super-miculek magic compensator, that would vent the gasses in precisely such a manner that all the impulse delivered by the gun was perfectly rearward.

atek3

TexasVet
May 7, 2003, 01:13 AM
atek3, it's called a recoilless rifle and they work pretty well, except the back blast lets everyone for a mile around know exactly where you are. I think that's why we don't use them any more. Seems well fitted for outer space, though.

SDC
May 7, 2003, 10:32 AM
Finally found a picture of what this thing is supposed to look like, In A.B Zhuk's "Illustrated Encyclopedia of Handguns", p302; apparently, this is a tip-up break-open revolver design with a 5-shot cylinder that fires from the bottom position. The specs he gives are : 410 x 2 1/2", 260mm barrel (10 1/4"), 5 rounds, with a detachable shoulder stock and optical sight, and the ammo can be loaded with either shot or flechettes.

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