[10-Ring]

Is there a practical application for a flash hider or muzzle break on a 223 AR? :confused: Isn't it realistically a 22 w/ umph? :scrutiny:

[TexasRifleman]

Well there is certainly an application for a properly designed flash hider with the .223/5.56. The muzzle flash and blast, especially at shorter barrel lengths, can be severe.

I'm VERY fond of the Noveske Krink clone flash hider on my AR. I find it extremely effective, especially with an 11.5" barrel.

http://homepage.mac.com/jayc67/noveske1.jpg

Muzzle brakes I personally don't think do a lot of good, but a well designed flash hider makes a big difference.

[2TransAms]

The flash hider is more of a flash disperser.It directs the burning gases away from the sights.Useful in some applications,but my AR doesn't have and I'm not so tactical that I feel I must go trade rifles just to have it.

The muzzle brake reduces recoil by simply directing the gases down on most models.I don't really notice much of a difference on the ones I've fired,but maybe it has its place on full-auto models.

[Quintin Likely]

I think the flash hider looks cool. I've never fired an AR15 at night, so I personally don't know how effective they are. They can make inspecting the barrel crown difficult/impossible, and if improperly installed, can hinder accuracy.

I think muzzle brakes are pointless on a .223, unless you're shooting a lot of rounds really fast, like a 3 gun shooter or something. Mostly 'cause brakes are loud as hell.

[10-Ring]

I've doing some looking and found a few that have a fairly high cool factor, but I'm going for practical...decisions decisions :cool:

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The muzzle brake is nice for IPSC-style competition and varminting since it basically reduces the recoil to video game levels. You can watch holes appear in your target through the scope because the recoil is so minimized.

The downside is that other shooters on the range or the RO might not appreciate the rifle much.

[DMK]

Is there a practical application for a flash hider or muzzle break on a 223 AR? Isn't it realistically a 22 w/ umph?I could go either way with the muzzle brake on a .223/5.56. It's a really light recoil and personally I don't think the noise and pressure increase to those around you is worth it. However, if you had a precision rifle with optics it might be nice to bring that rifle jump down to practically non-existant.

However, 5.56 can produce a huge amount of flash. Shooting M-193 ball, I can clearly see the fireball from my non-fs equipped AR carbine even in broad daylight. There were a couple threads showing pictures of various flash suppressors on an AR. it was quite eye opening.

[Snarlingiron]

I have a Bushmaster with the mini Y comp brake. I have a couple of freinds, one with a Bushmaster with a flash suppressor, and the othe with a Armalite and flash suppressor. Both agree that the muzzle brake's effects are quite noticeable vs the suppressors. With that said they both outshoot me. The Mini y comp is one of the more effective of the brakes, or so I am told. If it is a problem on the range, no one has ever complained. It's a gun for heaven's sake. They make noise. I'm pretty sure my .458 American, or my 30-06 are louder.

[mc223]

Brakes have a detrimental effect on accuracy.
Flash suppressors would be fine if all shooting was done at night.
IMHO

[Double Naught Spy]

The cool think about brakes is that you can make a .223 shoot like a .22 lr in terms of recoil, such as with a Bounds Brake - video game levels.

[Grunt]

Personally, I love flash suppressors and despise muzzle brakes. Reduction in flash is always a good thing and IMHO, if the rifle is kicking you so hard you need a "loudener", you need to get a smaller caliber. Besides, we seen from 1994 to 2004 (what I prefer to call the dark times) that a flash suppressor truely is far more eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil than a muzzle brake. :evil:

[Zach S]

I never thought highly of brakes, and downright hated them since firing an AR with a brake indoors. Despite doubled hearing protection, it still rattled me pretty good.

Flash hiders are something I could live without, however would rather not do so, unless I had a can.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The ultimate is still a sound suppressor - reduces the noise and is one of the most effective muzzle brakes out there.

The downside is extra regulation, lots of expense, gas blowback and about 20oz hanging off the end of the muzzle. I imagine you get quite a bit of recoil reduction just from the extra weight.

[ugaarguy]

The military currently uses a Flash Compensator. It's nothing more than a birdcage style flash supressor with a solid bottom. It sends gasses up and outward, but not downward. In doing so it provides both muzzle climb compensation and flash supression. Otherwise I agree with the other posters who relegate muzzle brakes strictly to varmint/precision rifle work thru a scope. Outside of that and a few other particular niches they just aren't practical. The AR is already very soft on recoil and very load on muzzle blast; I see no reason to make it even louder just to lower already mild recoil.

[Foxtrot427]

wouldnt the flame follow the gasses up and block view of the shooter?

[lycanthrope]

The suppressor is the best, but I can't find the extra $700 at the moment.....

So...all my defensive AR's wear brakes (good ones like the JP, Miculek and F2 comp). From shooting a bunch of 3 gun, I know I can put holes on target faster with them versus the flash hider. I've shot both brakes and flash hiders at night and neither blind me.....and neither eliminates muzzle flash entirely either.

I'll opt for fastest hits on target.

[ArmedBear]

There is an enormous difference between the flash of most .223 and milsurp 5.56 ammo through my 18" barrel sans terminal doohickey.

With .223, a flash suppressor is probably superfluous. I have never seen significant flash through the sights, directly or indirectly; from the side, while someone else shoots the gun, there's just a little flame at the muzzle. With 5.56, I see a big cloudy fireball that definitely obscures the sight picture, and from the side, it's a big pear-shaped fireball that sits a couple inches in front of the muzzle.

Pros and cons of a muzzlebrake have already been discussed.

[miko]

Military does use compensators on .223 weapons - but then again, they have full auto and/or bust mode and we do not. Climb is much less of an issue for a semi-autos.

On a short barrel, I would always prefer 2 extra inches of a longer barrel to same length of crap at the end of it, no matter the flash.

5.56 ammo was designed for 20" barrels or close to that and should not have excessive flash at that length. Again, I would prefer a 20" barrel to an 18" with a flashhider - the extra 2" go a long way eliminating flash as well as adding some velocity.

miko

[normbal]

Mc223 wrote:
"Brakes have a detrimental effect on accuracy. Flash suppressors would be fine if all shooting was done at night. IMHO"

Opinion is right.

I do some "tactical" (counter-sniper) shooting (steel torso plates) with a friend from time to time; shooting .223 out of a Rem 700 PSS I've hit four out of seven shots at 600 yards. It's a new exercise for me, I'll get better. My rifle's got a sound suppressor on it, which is one hell of a flash hider.

He shoots a .308 PSS and routinely hits cantelope at 1000 yards, 6/7 torsos at 600 yds w/ me spotting, and his rifle's compensated/braked (sides only, keeps the dust down), no can on it.

My .308 PSS is getting fitted for a suppressor now; I can already hit 300 yd targets repeatedly with it (no brake) that's the only range distance nearby. If I dope the wind well, I can get all rounds into a 2-3 inch spot.

Suppressors are known for AIDING accuracy. I'll let you know how it turns out when I get the can and the muzzle brake/thread protector so I can compare POA/POI.

Oh, and I was involved in some night shoots in training and missions; flash hiders work well at dusk and dawn too.
And nighttime? Not if you're wearing IR NVGs.

I'm just saying.

-nb
CPT USA (ret)

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The military currently uses a Flash Compensator. It's nothing more than a birdcage style flash supressor with a solid bottom. It sends gasses up and outward, but not downward. In doing so it provides both muzzle climb compensation and flash supression.

The A2 flash suppressor is a mediocre flash suppressor and useless as a muzzle brake. You would be hard pressed to tell the difference between an A1 flash hider or a bare muzzle and a rifle with an A2. You will immediately notice the difference between a rifle with a muzzle brake and an A2.

The reason the bottom slots on the A2 are closed are not to give a muzzle brake ability; but to reduce kicking up dust in the prone position. The small clouds of dust kicked up by the A1 can give away the shooter's position.

[10-Ring]

So, if I go w/ a hider or a combo unit, which one(s) perform the best?

[mc223]

Suppressors are known for AIDING accuracy. I'll let you know how it turns out when I get the can and the muzzle brake/thread protector so I can compare POA/POI.

:confused:

You must tell me how, and if they aid accuracy, why has the benchrest community not jumped on.

I just, to put it bluntly do not believe a brake or flash hider or flash suppressor is necessary beyond cool factor.
I like to shoot my ARs and find it much more pleasant shooting horse flies at 200yds than to come home from the range and realize that I still have ear plugs in because the guy next to me at the range had a Miculek on his 16 in. and the ringing won't stop.

Four outa seven is SAD!

So I stand by my Opinion.

[Double Naught Spy]

The military currently uses a Flash Compensator.

BR is right. It is better than a bull barrel, but flash suppression is limited and braking is limited. It does a little of both and neither great. It is a better flash suppressor than brake, IMHO. If you want a brake, it is not a good compromise. They are precisely what I am replacing with Bounds brakes on my two newer AR15 uppers.

[mc223]

quoted personal attack edited - BR

.223 what recoil?
Muzzle blast upsetting the stability of the bullet. Probably not. Muzzle brake upsetting the stability of the bullet by altering the linear flow of the gas into countless unpredictable directions. Likely