[eclancy]

Gentlemen,
This maybe be my last POST. All I ask is to keep hits on my sites ony once so that I might get some HELP!! This is a PHOTO and I have posted it BEFORE. Ordnance voted it down. So no hits and the BOSS will voted me OUT. I have tons more DATA just like this in my books but no one ever says try Clancy web sites, IT IS THE REAL ORDERS. I know I will get jumped for this post but is it so hard to hit my sites???
Well here it is Gentlemen, I will now in the next few days. If not then -30- and Thanks.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/eclancy/069f23d1.jpg

http://www.users.fast.net/~eclancy

http://www.garandm1rifle.com

Email at: garandm1rifle@rcn.com

Hit'em again
Thanks again
Clancy
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[shermacman]

Woooo, no wonder Ordnance turned it down. Look at the weight: 10,104 lbs. It would be even heavier with 20 rounds in it!

On a serious note, does anyone understand what is meant by the type of action and the source of power?

I hit your web site, too.

[ChestyP]

semi-auto design relied on primer set-back to operate the action. A rough analogy would be the M1 carbine tappet gas system. IIRC, it requied special ammo (not something a country wants to examine as it enters a war) that allowed the primer to slam back into a cup in the bolt face, imparting enough energy to cycle he bolt to the rear.

While the Army didn't pursue Mr Garand's idea, they thought enough of it to keep him on the payroll. John Garand and John Pedersen (inventor of the Pedersen Device of WW I fame) competed in the mid-20s to develop a new semi-auto rifle for the Army, chambered for a new .276 Pedersen cartridge.

Pedersen's rifle used a toggle-lock, just like the Luger. Garand's used a rotating bolt and gas operation. The rest is history.

[Tyril]

Reading more of that site:


Wow! I had no idea there was so much infighting between the supporters of the M1 and M2 ball!


It looks like the Marines (who I guess still had 1903s in 1939-1940), wanted higher MV and better accuracy at long rangers that the Army Ordnance was delivering with the M2 ball.


These are amazingly interesting :)


Thank you.


-mike

[ChestyP]

adopted the M1 in 1942. 1st Marine Division landed on Guadalcanal 8/07/1942 armed with 1903s. 2nd Marine Division arrived in late September armed with M1s.

[Jim K]

It would be more accurate to say that a primer-actuated system does NOT require special ammunition. Ordinary commercial ammunition would work fine in the Garand designs.

But, because of headspace problems in machineguns, the army required .30-'06 ammunition to have crimped in primers. Unless the primers were crimped, they could pop out of the case and tie up the gun, not a good thing, especially in aircraft guns where clearing the gun was not possible.

But primers are crimped specifically so they WON'T back out, and Garand's mechanism worked only if they did. So, John C. went back to the drawing board to come up with a rifle that would work with the Army's ammunition.

Then along came Pedersen, whose rifle also wouldn't work with the Army's ammo (too powerful for the delayed blowback action). Slicker than John C., John D. persuaded the Ordnance folks that the .30 was unnecessarily powerful, and that a .276 round would be better. Of course, the .276 would work fine in his rifle. That went OK until the CSA (MacArthur) took a bit broader view and reminded everyone that there were gadzillions of rounds of .30 ammo in storage and it would be nice to use it and not to have to make a whole new bunch of .276 ammo. Pedersen's rifle couldn't hack the .30, so Garand had the field to himself.

JIm

[Vern Humphrey]

And as a consolation prize to Pedersen (since Garand wasn't supposed to win), the new rifle had to use the Pedersen-designed en bloc clip.

[JoshM]

Interesting stuff ... Thanks eclancy

I heard a story that some National Guard units in the mid/late seventies retired their M1 Garands, replacing them with the M16A1? Therefore skipping the M14 all together.

I know the M14 had a pretty short service life, but is there any truth to this ?

Sidenote

A friend of a friend noted to me that his father's favorite weapon while serving in 1944-45 Italy (as a New Zealand Army Infantry Lieutenant) was a "battlefield pickup" Garand. Not surprising, but New Zealanders normally preferred the fancy automatic weaponry provided by dead Nazi paratroopers in that war : )

[Wes Janson]

Please keep posting stuff, don't go away! It's all interesting and appreciated!