Another gun range suicide


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ScottsGT
August 5, 2006, 09:43 AM
Cannot find a weblink, but yesterday morning at my local "hangout", Shooters Choice, there was a suicide. The article in the paper said the guy fired 4 rounds at the target then turned the gun on himself.
And I was just there on Thursday during my lunch break shooting.
I'll post a weblink when I can find one.

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ArmedBear
August 5, 2006, 10:06 AM
Suicides tend to leave me with little sympathy and much anger, so pardon my callous attitude.

But here's my question: I wonder why he shot 4 at the target first? The suicide at my local range was a whole box: 49 at the target, last one at himself.

I guess we'll never know the answer.

1 old 0311
August 5, 2006, 10:13 AM
Maybe fired four shots to confirm the weapon was functional?

ArmedBear
August 5, 2006, 10:17 AM
Maybe fired four shots to confirm the weapon was functional?

Wants to minimize the chance that God or somesuch Supreme Being would interfere with his suicide?

Man, I'm a cynical bastard.

the pistolero
August 5, 2006, 10:48 AM
Man, I'm a cynical bastard.

Well, you really can't help it in this day and age, because we all know that somewhere, someone is going to take this very incident and exploit it to further their agenda, as anti-gunners are wont to do. I'm right there with ya, ArmedBear...

ArmedBear
August 5, 2006, 10:50 AM
I knew this stuff would start happening, once every car had a catalytic converter. No more just sitting in your car in a closed garage with the engine on.

Ah, the unintended consequences of pollution controls.:evil:

hoji
August 5, 2006, 05:21 PM
:confused:
You know it really hacks me off when someone does this at a firing range with a rented gun. Just use a rope or pills but please dont do anything else to harm the law abiding.:cuss:

Erebus
August 5, 2006, 06:03 PM
Any chance it could have been an accident? Someone doing something stupid or such? Haven't seen a report on it so I am speculating.

1911Tuner
August 5, 2006, 06:06 PM
Public suicides...on a range with a rented gun, and out in the open so as to minimize the shock effect and ensuing guilt trip on friends and/or family members...especially when small children are apt to be on the scene...elicit little sympathy from me because of the way they go about it. Privacy is available for the ultimate private act.

However...not all suicides are the ultimate "Go to hell, world and everybody in it/See what you've made me do" Some choose to die because they're worn out, and at the end of his or her desire to continue on. Intense, chronic pain...Terminally ill...Deep depression, etc.

A man is dead by his own hand. That he didn't do it privately and cleanly is bad...but he's still dead. It's sad that some few people could reach a point that they feel that life just isn't worth living...and somewhere, a family is in deep shock because they probably didn't have a clue as to his intentions, even though some of the classic warning signs were likely evident. People tend to ignore such things. It's human nature to refuse to believe that it could actually happen.

Please...Let him rest. If not for his sake, then for theirs.

orionengnr
August 5, 2006, 06:19 PM
I knew this stuff would start happening, once every car had a catalytic converter. No more just sitting in your car in a closed garage with the engine on.
Ah, the unintended consequences of pollution controls.

Ummm...what? Whatever makes you think that modern vehicles do not emit carbon monoxide? Sitting in your garage with the engine running will do you in every bit as dead today as it did 30 years ago.

Sheesh.

ArmedBear
August 5, 2006, 07:05 PM
I think it would take a LOT longer, with a modern emission control system and computerized fuel injection, than it did back when carburetors and open exhaust reigned supreme. Maybe I'm wrong.

limbaughfan
August 5, 2006, 07:11 PM
i have no sympathy for that idiot I only wish he would have killed himself with something other than a gun,because he only gives ammo to the anti gunners.

rchernandez
August 5, 2006, 07:20 PM
I feel sympathy for the range owner/operator...hard enough running this business day-to-day, then add in the closure while police investigate and the possibility of suits from "grieving family"...

Cosmoline
August 5, 2006, 07:29 PM
So-called "clean" exhaust will still kill you in a matter of minutes. That's what's so ironic about all these anti-smoking efforts

gregthehand
August 5, 2006, 08:22 PM
I saw one guy do it really clean for his family. He went into his backyard sat in a lawn chair and shot himself in the head with a 12 gauge. Really messy but at least he didn't make a mess in the house therefore requiring a costly clean up.

P0832177
August 5, 2006, 09:10 PM
1911 Tuner "Amen" very well put!

Having attended to many life ending events, after the fact and some in progress. I have to say that with each one it made me not question people's choices. Others, of course in retrospect, are willing to chastise the dead for their choice. But, we do not walk in the departed's shoes. As much as we would like to think that there are venues for help and change, many are just another brick wall faced by the party. There is simply not enough inpatient rooms for treatment, and many are just plain too vexed by the system.

A 12 yr old boy who expressed his desire to escort a fellow 7th grader to a shool dance and then was rebuffed by the other party. This 12 yr old then peddled out to grandpa's farm, about 7 miles out of town. He then extracted his own gun, stored at the farm, from grandpa's safe. He then penned 3 page note as to why he was doing what he did.

A 30 yr old guy who was fraught with family trouble, joblessness, and, other problems. Proceeded to be taken in by his mother. He then dressed himself in his "Sunday Best", drove his car into the tuck under garage of the townhome. He left the car running and faded to black. His note of apology was extensive, that included sealed envelopes to various family members, and an open note to his mother. He thought he would minimize the funeral chores, but already being dressed in what he wanted to be buried in. He did not factor that he lost bowel and bladder control when his life ceased to be! He is thinking while flawed, was directed at sort of saving the living some pain.

I have had fellow health care provider relate that her 12 yr old son knew how to take his life with little fan fare. Overdose on a specific drug and wash it down with some liquid courage.

Life sure is not pefect! There are many unanswered calls for help! But, in the end we did not walk in those people's shoes!

choochboost
August 5, 2006, 11:43 PM
Two weeks ago, it happened at a range in the Bay area and at another in SoCal.

Erebus
August 5, 2006, 11:51 PM
My first experience with death and the first funeral I attended was a suicide situation. My mother's cousin Brian was one of my favorite people when I was about 6 or 7 years old. I don't remember exactly what age I was but about 6 or 7 years old. I live 3 hours from most of my family. I am originally from Berlin NH I now live in North Central MA. When ever we would go home to Berlin I couldn't wait to see Brian and his gorgeous 72 or 73 Red Mustang. I think I only rode in it once. Brian drove out to a highway on ramp and shot himself in the chest. It was a difficult thing for me to wrap my brain around then. I remember seeing the car in my grandmother's garage and not being able to understand why Brian wasn't there. He never went anywhere without the car. Where ever the car was he was. Then I saw him in the casket. And no matter how good a make-up job they do, it was obvious to even my little self that he was dead. That was the moment I came to understand what dead was. And to know that he did it to himself was traumatic.

Suicide is a selfish act and there is no such thing as making it easy on the family. Mess or no mess it devastating.

Geno
August 5, 2006, 11:51 PM
How many here have FACTUALLY stopped someone from doing just this?

I have twice: my former brother-in-law (an LEO), and a neighbor.

I think some people simply don't have skills to deal with stresses.

A parting thought: my father always told me, "Son, don't judge the man that has to drink to get through the days of his life; instead, thank God that you have the stregth to not need it to get through your days." I.E., don't judge. Let's keep The High Road.

Guess my father had some good, UNcommon sense.

Doc2005

Cosmoline
August 6, 2006, 12:22 AM
I'll drink to that!

JohnKSa
August 6, 2006, 01:07 AM
How many here have FACTUALLY stopped someone from doing just this?It's worth noting that a person who is attempting suicide is by definition homicidal. It is dangerous to assume that they pose no risk to those around them.

Not saying one should not make the attempt, just that they should keep in mind that suicidal persons can pose a danger to others besides themselves.

choochboost
August 6, 2006, 01:16 AM
That's why I keep a full mag on me while at the range. I don't want to be stuck with an empty gun in my hand.

carnaby
August 6, 2006, 01:29 AM
I remember wondering when I started shooting a couple years ago why my range wouldn't let me rent a gun if I was by myself and didn't have my own with me. The clerk in the retail part of the store filled me in about the suiced a few years back. Good policy, if not annoying for those of us not bent on death.

Bergerboy
August 6, 2006, 01:59 AM
Apparently a guy on another board was at the range when the guy did it.........he told about it. :eek:

RustyShackelford
August 6, 2006, 02:04 AM
I shoot at a small place near me. There's no AC and the vents/fans work like &*%# but I get free range time.

I try to go in the off hours so I can avoid other gun shooters. It's not that I'm a jerk, I just don't like the noise and talk of the other range shooters. In a public place or business you have no real control over who shoots there or what they may say or do. I'd rather have peace and quiet when I shoot and like to go when the crowds are low. In my last range shoot about 6 people came in the lanes near me. Three young girls who never shot a weapon before and 2 other guys who were shooting handguns.
The guys I did not mind but the girls were new and had no formal training, :uhoh: .

Rusty

M2 Carbine
August 6, 2006, 02:52 AM
If the government and many people didn't think they have the right to control other peoples lives, there would be available the means for people to end their lives in a quiet, peaceful, painless way.

We give our animals and even the worst inhuman killers a peacful death but force people into terrible ways to end their lives.:fire:

The chances are this guy we're talking about would have much rather taken a pill and "fell asleep" watching TV, than shooting himself in public.

MAURICE
August 6, 2006, 05:54 AM
Most people will never know what is going through the head of one who wishes to end it all. Even after talking someone down it is hard to comprehend. I caught a friend with pills once, and also talked a female prisoner down who was seeing little devils in her cell. Both were tough to talk out of it, but both are alive today. Selfish act? In most cases, yes. It is. But some people have to deal with more demons than we will ever know exist.

I do not judge someone for taking their life as it is not my place, but to do so in such a setting is uncalled for. I wish the range owner and the family of the deceased the best.

LiquidTension
August 6, 2006, 09:52 AM
I was just in Shooter's Choice last Friday when they had a huge S&W sale. Walked out with a 642 and an M&P-15 - everything was being sold at cost. The guys up there can be asses, but nobody deserves to have to deal with this sort of thing. The same range had an employee kill himself several years ago with a Desert Eagle, but that one was an accident.

shllyshny
August 6, 2006, 10:19 AM
Perhaps the gentleman was not pleased with his shot group...

Anthony T.
August 6, 2006, 11:31 AM
Man, that's not cool to be cracking jokes about this guy. Think about how his family felt. Or how you would feel if it was your family. The guy and his familt deserve a little respect. It may have not been an honorable thing to do, but no one knows why he did and why he chose a range to do it. Could have been messed up on drugs or anything.

witiku
August 6, 2006, 01:40 PM
I've been seeing alot about gun range suicides these days. I've been involved with death personally and by way of career for many years. I've not been able to peg this suicide trait people have. I've had a few thoughts.

I don't know if it's Biological or Mental or a strange combo of both. I think, in the end, suicide is a kind of tunnel vision of the mind. The choice is not so much selfish as blind. Options are minimised for the suicide one.

The consequences of the aftermath are not well thought out just like many endeavours people undertake. Ever get surprised how you missed a detail fixing something? Ever think when someone makes a mistake you think you would not have? Ie: 'what a dumb a**, should have known...'

Do I feel pity for them over their suicide? Oh yes, quite a bit, what a waste of life. If they would have just fugue, why end it.

Negativity directed toward this gun range suicide victim? No one involved with a suicide would be so hard after feeling the pain and loss. I do feel a little miffed that the 2A will be soiled by this poor use of arms though. Brady Anti Juice, however wrong it is.

When I hear any 'joke like' or dismissive comments, I know the gravity of the act has been missed or suicide never came to that persons life.

Empathy and compassion for them and their bereaved? Definately, it's human. It separates us from every other creature.

The big thing that's missed seems to be the personal responsibility for ones self. Rarely do I hear about the failure to respect the self. The fact that a suicide is often the end of a rocky road that was full of pain seems to be secondary to the method of suicide.

Why is it that some people are portrayed as somehow being influenced by the firearm to end their life? Like the shooting somehow convinced the range guest it was somehow acceptable to do. Whats up with that? Never have I ever heard the same about a rope in a hanging suicide, or the stolen car in an MVA suicide.

Just some random thoughts.
Best,

Target Shooter
August 6, 2006, 05:08 PM
Was his grouping really that bad?:D :D :D







I'm sorry to all the bleading hearts in the world but there is no excuse for commiting suicide.

cassandrasdaddy
August 6, 2006, 05:11 PM
if it wasn't illegal. ain't it a hoot that suicide isn't but abortion is?
if i was terminal i would do it once quality of like got too low. known folks that did it to spare families financial hardship.

gunlover_06
August 6, 2006, 08:40 PM
casandra.
I'm thinking you may have those backwards i believe suicide is illeagal and abortion is not suicide is considered a homicide, that is investigated buy law enforcement. Where as abortion is the cold hearted MURDER!!. of an innocent child that has no say or choice,about it's own DEATH.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

M2 Carbine
August 6, 2006, 08:57 PM
"Was his grouping really that bad?
I'm sorry to all the bleading hearts in the world but there is no excuse for commiting suicide."

Target Shooter, in keeping within THR all I'll say is I hope in your little secure world that you don't find out how wrong you are.:rolleyes:

Target Shooter
August 6, 2006, 09:09 PM
I don't have a secure little world my wife is constantly picking fights with me I stay broke and I'm currently unemployed.

M2 Carbine
August 6, 2006, 09:33 PM
Count your blessings.
I wish my Wife were here to pick fights with me.
I was broke for many years and unemployed to,

and even though I didn't realize it at the time that was some of the best times of my life.

Hang in there.

Optical Serenity
August 7, 2006, 01:29 PM
Well, another bad situation at a gun shop to make us look bad. :rolleyes:

ArmedBear
August 7, 2006, 01:35 PM
A 12 yr old boy who expressed his desire to escort a fellow 7th grader to a shool dance and then was rebuffed by the other party.

A 30 yr old guy who was fraught with family trouble, joblessness, and, other problems.

What sort of a weak, pathetic society have we become, where suicide is even CONSIDERED as an option by young, healthy people, as an answer to life's setbacks?

(Debilitating, painful, permanent illness, etc., I can see, but THIS stuff?)

Lonestar
August 7, 2006, 02:07 PM
Any chance it could have been an accident? Someone doing something stupid or such? Haven't seen a report on it so I am speculating.

That would be my luck, I'm at the gun range shooting alone (Sometime I shoot with my friends, but sometimes I like to sneak out and shoot alone) and have a jam or something and thru some momentary act of stupidity the barrel is ponted toward my head and the gun goes off. Everyone at the range will think I'm a bastard for commiting suicide, my wife and kid will not get any life insurance, etc.

My friend's family was destroyed by suicide. When he was a teenager, his father decided to blow his brains out in his living room. He was the first person to find his dad, and it really changed him. His father didn't leave a note, and most of his family blamed his mother and started rumors that she was cheating, or was putting the family in debt. His family is now spread out across the US and no one talks to one another. It is a shame.

I never seen the need to commit suicide. You can have some severe tragedy happen to you one day, or you can be going thru some deep depression, and a few weeks later you could be having the happiest day of your life. Suicide is just giving up on life, and its possibilities.

Daniel T
August 7, 2006, 02:48 PM
What sort of a weak, pathetic society have we become, where suicide is even CONSIDERED as an option by young, healthy people, as an answer to life's setbacks?

You say this like it's a modern problem that never existed before. It isn't.

ArmedBear
August 7, 2006, 02:56 PM
You say this like it's a modern problem that never existed before. It isn't.

It certainly has existed before. It correlates with a certain attitude that people have towards life, I think.

geist
August 7, 2006, 06:13 PM
i have seen these posts on many forums. and it always kind of bugs me when ppl talk down about ppl who have taken there lives. its sad and tragic, i think the key to understanding it is the simple concept that not everyone thinks alike. its not black and white. just like you can have sociopaths or psychopaths who can kill without remorse like a "normal" person does you can have ppl who cant cope with life and stress like the majority of ppl can.

FilJos
August 7, 2006, 06:19 PM
Yeah, this happened a few times at our local place a few years ago. Since then if you want to shoot a rental gun you either need to show a CCW or have a buddy with you.

Labinnac
August 8, 2006, 02:02 PM
The jokes are in bad form but keep this in mind. Some people crack jokes to smile and laugh in the face of extreme tragedy and horror. That just happens to be the way some people deal with such things. It may seem a bit twisted but it is effective. That's the way I am. It may get under some people's skin but to each his own. personally I think it is a far better way of coping than going out and getting blind drunk or stoned.

I've seen and experienced some bad things. Suicide has touched me many times. When I was in college a good friend's father shot himself in the heart with a snub nosed .38. My friend found him and he was never the same. I fully understand the after effects.

I was out at that store one week before during the big sale buying a new toy myself. I was shooting that new toy this past Saturday when I found out about this incident. It is a shame.

ArmedBear
August 8, 2006, 02:05 PM
Some people crack jokes to smile and laugh in the face of extreme tragedy and horror.

Beats the hell out of shooting yourself, doesn't it?

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