NH: Feds to hold Free Stater till September


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DadaOrwell2
August 5, 2006, 04:26 PM
Wolfies, your thoughts on this?

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From NHfree.com
8/1/06
Concord, New Hampshire

Feds will hold "Outlaw Leafletter" for full month
"Quit your IRS job" flyer handout attempt triggers summary conviction

Still wearing the shorts and T-shirt he had on when Homeland Security agents came through his door, Keene resident Russell Kanning sat in front of his accusers Monday and built a paper airplane.

"He refused to cooperate," says his wife, Kat Dillon. "I'm so proud of him."

Appearing in Concord District Court Monday afternoon, Kanning faced five Federal charges for attempting to enter Keene's IRS office during business hours and hand out a "quit your job" flyer. But no one seemed thrilled to have him in the courtroom.

After refusing an attorney, the libertarian activist - who normally wears glasses - squinted at court officials and shivered in the cold chamber but otherwise appeared to be in good spirits.

"Government prosecutor was totally playing softball," writes one of one of the six NHfree.com activists who rushed to the courthouse after the arrest but asked not to be named in this article. "Palmer and the ICE guy (the arresting officers) seemed to like Russ. I know that will sound crass, since they did arrest him."

The Federal prosecutor asked Inspector Palmer, a Homeland Security agent, what Kanning was carrying while outside the IRS offices.

"A pitchfork," replied Palmer, triggering grins from Kanning's supporters and some of the officials.

Kanning, who had dropped the pitchfork before attempting to enter IRS offices, did not face charges related to the "weapon," or for leafleting outside. Charges instead centered on his attempt to physically enter the IRS office with his leaflet despite police warnings.

"I got the impression that the basic issue was that there was expected to be a 'disruption' of the business that day," continues the unnamed activist, who quizzed agents after the hearing.

In planning the event on the NHfree.com forums, Kanning had indicated he might indeed eventually go to the IRS and disrupt operations, but that he would not do so before August 3.

"The judge told Russ he had a constitutional right to question the witness," writes the activist. "Russ asked Palmer if he'd quit his job, which was a nice touch."

Halfway through the hearing a bailiff pointedly seized Kanning's paper airplane.

The judge eventually convicted Kanning on four of the five charges, and asked the 36-year-old when would be a good day for him to come in and face sentencing. Kanning replied that he would not come back on his own. The judge then ordered he be held without bail until sentencing on Sept. 6.

Kanning now sits in Strafford County Jail in Dover, New Hampshire. He is a member of the Free State Project (www.FreeStateProject.org), a movement aimed at recruiting libertarians to New Hampshire.

For additional late-breaking details, or to learn how you can support Russell, visit the NHfree.com forums at

http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=4640.0

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JohnBT
August 5, 2006, 05:06 PM
"Kanning replied that he would not come back on his own. The judge then ordered he be held without bail"

I'm sure his family loves him. I'm surprised he didn't spit on the floor as another sign of his disrespect when he finished playing with his paper airplane.

John

DadaOrwell2
August 5, 2006, 05:22 PM
Actually russell is a very personable guy, and is friendly to federal employees even if he is being arrested by them.


But assuming he were a "spitter," well what would happen if 1 in every 1000 americans decide to become an anti irs "spitter" and showed up at their local internal robbery squadron office? Even if they didn't act in a perfect manner, even if they were rude and spitting and a poorly dressed rabble... The IRS would evaporate. Or something constructive would come of it, Washington would get the message. Your taxes would shrink dramatically, or you would not be forced to pay them to Washington anymore. The government would rethink every dime of spending.

JohnBT
August 5, 2006, 06:16 PM
"The IRS would evaporate" "Washington would get the message"

I'm sorry, but that's downright funny. You must be an idealist and dreamer.

John

DadaOrwell2
August 6, 2006, 04:57 PM
russell's letters from jail are starting to arrive and appear online

----


8/1/06
Hello Kat,

I am writing you at about 2 pm August 1st from my new room in maximum security (Cell Block D). My room faces out West onto a road that is open to the public. You drive straight S on a road almost to the dog pound. I am on the bottom floor and about in the middle of the block. I see a big white take that says "modern." I bet you could hold signs across the road where I can see you or by the start(?) of the road by the entrance to the jail.

Since I am walking around now for them, they don't hurt me anymore. The Federal Marshals would twist my arms and hands to get me to walk and get fingerprinted. I spent the first night in a cell by myself next to the front desk in my own clothes. Now I have a roommate in max. Both situations are because I would not answer questions. Now they think they are punishing me by keeping me in a room 23 hours a day.

The sentencing lady talked to me yesterday and will speed things up so that I get sentenced before September 6th (or whenever they said).

I am fine in here. I am fasting right now and I guess I will continue until I am sentenced. If they throw me back in for more time, I guess I will drink juice.

My current roommate is in here for drugs...of course. He is getting out in a little while.

I think the mail goes out Monday and Wednesday from "max" so this should go out tomorrow, Wednesday the 2nd.

I have no need or way to spend money in "max", so ask people to advertise in the paper if they want to help me.

( i think he is referring to the Keene Free Press)

gc70
August 6, 2006, 05:18 PM
Kanning's drivel about abuse and mistreatment is insulting. I suppose it might strike a chord with the part of the population programmed to blindly accept any charges of government abuses or police brutality. Too bad; he probably has some valid things to say that are lost through his abysmal delivery of the message.

DadaOrwell2
August 6, 2006, 05:25 PM
gc, john:

some questions.

Do you agree that IRS taxes are excessive or that the money is being used primarily for counterproductive purposes, or that it is being wastefully spent?

And if so, what are you doing about it, that is superior to what Russell is doing? If you claim to be superior, what results can you point to that indicate your methods are superior?

Russell's results are not massive, but has has achieved a few this week. I'd like assurances that your methods have proven more effective than his, before I take too seriously your attacks against him.

hammer4nc
August 6, 2006, 05:35 PM
Kanning's drivel about abuse and mistreatment is insulting.

Quite the contrary. You are doubting they used pain compliance holds in response to Kanning's passive resistance? Pretty common hands on technique. Or are you referring to something written somewhere else? Specifically....

I find Kanning's words to be authentic, not something spun by a media machine. A humble man.

Out of control federal spending, a corrupt IRS system, are far more insulting to thinking Americans than ANYTHING Russ Kanning could say from a jail cell. I'm increasingly nauseated by those who see a need to take cheap shots at this guy.:barf:

Spartacus451
August 6, 2006, 06:09 PM
Reminds me of cool hand luke.

ilbob
August 6, 2006, 08:01 PM
Kanning's drivel about abuse and mistreatment is insulting. I suppose it might strike a chord with the part of the population programmed to blindly accept any charges of government abuses or police brutality. Too bad; he probably has some valid things to say that are lost through his abysmal delivery of the message.

I suspect he is completely honest about what is going on. If he refuses to cooperate with the jailers they will indeed use some level of force to make him comply. Why would you deny that? It is just a fact of life in jail for the prisoner. Do as you are told or else!

By the way, he did not state in the letter they mistreated him at all. Only twisted his arm to make him go get his fingerprints. Not exactly a torture chamber.

He got himself put there deliberately by telling the judge he would not return for sentencing. He has only himself to blame.

rhubarb
August 6, 2006, 08:52 PM
if 1 in every 1000 americans decide to become an anti irs "spitter" and showed up at their local internal robbery squadron office? ...something constructive would come of it, Washington would get the message.

You can say that again. And when Washington gets the message, it will be you and I evaporating, not the IRS.

Imagine Congresscritters discussing ways to deal with people who would resist giving the Federal Government money. Now imagine it without Federal Law Officers and Jail Time. Hard, huh?

El Tejon
August 6, 2006, 09:20 PM
rhubarb, umm, actually, it's kind of easy to imagine how they would do this. It happened to my family in the 1660s in England--the government takes your property and then revoke your citizenship and kick you out of the country.:D

We are nothing more than batteries to power the government. From what I learned at gun school (ran into FBI at a gun school and part of their job was planning for this scenario), the government would not hesitate liquidating tax resisters (no, I don't mean putting them (ringleaders at first) in the Bureau of Prisons, I mean disappearing them, South American style).

El Tejon
August 6, 2006, 09:26 PM
The New Harmony Stater already had a trial?!?!?!

Who was his lawyer, or did he waive one?:confused:

gc70
August 6, 2006, 11:35 PM
"Oh my, they arrested me for trying to talk to government employees (in a nonpublic office area)."
"Oh my, they dragged me out of my house to take me to court (because I refused to return to court for trial)."
"Oh my, they threw me in jail until my sentencing date (because I refused to return to court for sentencing)."
"Oh my, they twisted my arms and hands in jail (because I refused to walk or cooperate with fingerprinting)."

Mr. Kanning should read biographies of sucessful non-violent protesters. Ghandi, King, and others conducted themselves with dignity and did not act like drama queens. Mr. Kanning's behavior, trying to sensationalize events, simply trivializes an otherwise powerful message.

JohnBT
August 7, 2006, 08:34 AM
"Do you agree that IRS taxes are excessive or that the money is being used primarily for counterproductive purposes, or that it is being wastefully spent?"

What does this have to do with his pointless protest? He could be protesting against anything you can think of and his tactics, or lack of tactics, would still be sad.

"And if so, what are you doing about it, that is superior to what Russell is doing?"

Doing nothing is better than acting like a crackpot and tainting the anti-tax movement.

"I'd like assurances that your methods have proven more effective than his, before I take too seriously your attacks against him."

What? You're incapable of basing your judgement on the facts of his actions? It's not always true that something is better than nothing.

John

hammer4nc
August 7, 2006, 09:18 AM
As I understand it, Cervantes wrote "Don Quixote" while in prison. Ironic. Some here would be disparaging of anything less than this, or MLK's "letter from Birmingham jail", or St. Paul's letters from prison. May your own actions (or lack thereof) be judged similarly.

HankB
August 7, 2006, 10:23 AM
The judge eventually convicted Kanning on four of the five charges, IANAL . . . the story says Kanning refused a lawyer, but since he was convicted by a judge, does this mean Kanning also refused a jury trial?

silliman89
August 7, 2006, 10:29 AM
what are you doing about it, that is superior to what Russell is doing?

I'm not wasting taxpayer money on a trial. I'm not wasting taxpayer money on jail time. I'm not encouraging the IRS to waste taxpayer money by hiring security guards. All these things make what I'm doing superior to this clown.

He may be a nice guy and personable, but he's misguided and only making things worse.

It sounds to me like it's the people behind him who encourage him and tell him he's doing great things who are responsible for him being in jail. I think the real question here is why anyone who really thinks this action helps anything, isn't in the cell next to him?

DadaOrwell2
August 7, 2006, 06:20 PM
<<I think the real question here is why anyone who really thinks this action helps anything, isn't in the cell next to him? >>

Speaking for myself, I'm not in the jail cell next to him because I have less courage and self sacrificial spirit than him.

however since he has chosen to do this, I have chosen to let people know he is doing it, so that his sacrifice does not occur in darkness.

DadaOrwell2
August 7, 2006, 06:23 PM
So, one or two of you have hinted that you are "doing nothing" to reduce the powers of the federal government, or that donig nothing is better than doing something imperfectly. I'm still waiting for someone here to articulate what they are doing, as Patrick Henry put it, to help protect the nation from its government

Others have alleged that the government is so evil it will engage in an Argentine-style disappearance campaign. However, you seem to think it is not sufficiently evilt to disobey when it tells you not to enter its publicly accessible revenue offices. I'm having some trouble following the logic

ArmedBear
August 7, 2006, 06:33 PM
donig nothing is better than doing something imperfectly

Interesting spin there, Dada. Actually a straw man, too...

How unbecoming of a devout Libertarian.

Doing something detrimental may well be worse than doing nothing, and you damn well know it. Arguing whether someone has done something that is detrimental is not the same as excusing inaction.

I disagree with a lot of posts here. I don't think that Rosa Parks was gunning for jail, either, or any of that nonsense.

But it's possible that Russ did something detrimental, and it should be entirely possible to discuss that. I'm not sure that making paper airplanes is good for much. Maybe being a "flake" is just a lot more common here in California than it is in New Hampshire, so here it wouldn't have the same impact.

Still, he sounds like a guy I'd like. I wish him the best.

Sorry I won't be joining you in New Hampshire. I'm more of a Western libertarian type. There seems to be a difference in attitude and approach. But you do sound like a fun bunch.

silliman89
August 7, 2006, 07:14 PM
Speaking for myself, I'm not in the jail cell next to him because I have less courage and self sacrificial spirit than him.


Dada,

I applaud your self-honest introspection. I regret that my earlier post was so confrontational, and have edited it to be slightly less so.

JohnBT
August 7, 2006, 07:32 PM
"when it tells you not to enter its publicly accessible revenue offices. I'm having some trouble following the logic"

The office is not "publicly accessible." You can't go there simply because you want to. You can't go there to sell Avon. You can't go there to have a nice chat and trim your toenails. You can't go there and hand out playbills. Or any other kind of handouts.

You can go there if you want to make an appointment to discuss your tax bill or if you have an appointment to take care of the business handled by that office.

I don't think any of this is that difficult to understand.

And what's with all the demands for members to prove this or prove that? The discussion is about one man and what in the world he hoped to accomplish with his childish pitchfork wielding prank.

John

silliman89
August 7, 2006, 08:15 PM
Still, he sounds like a guy I'd like. I wish him the best.

It sounds like everyone who meets him likes him and gets along with him, from the cops to his cellmate. He is clearly sacrificing himself for what he sees as our benefit as much as his. I don't wish him ill, I just think he is misguided.

By himself he isn't really wasting much in the way of taxpayer money, but imagine if hundreds of thousands did what he is doing in protest. That would lead to the situation I was talking about where the drain on the police forces and court system, plus additional IRS security expenses, would cause more taxes, not less.

In reality though, I don't think there's any danger of large numbers of people following his example. In fact, to the extent that he is associated with the FreeStaters, I think he is giving the organization a bad name and driving people like me away.

The problem is this; the IRS is not the cause of the bloated federal government. The past half-century has shown over and over again that congressmen of either party will spend as much as they please with no regard for how much is actually collected in taxes. Even if Russell were successful in getting people to quit the IRS in droves, that wouldn't change the actions of congress.

The only possible solution that I have ever even heard, to reduce the size and runaway spending of the federal government, is the line item veto. It seems this will require a constitutional amendment. Therefore the only action I see which does any good in reducing the size and power of the Fed, is voting for people who would pass a line item veto amendment. This is what I try to do.

Although the benefits of this seem self-evident to me, I know many fear the added power this would give to the executive branch of government. In rebuttal of this fear, I point to the only group of experienced Washington politicians with an undisputable history of being pro states' rights, the Confederate Congressmen who seceded from the Union in 1861.

I think they were misguided to secede, but they believed in States' Rights. They were not about to create a confederate government that would abuse States' Rights. So when they wrote the constitution of the Confederate States of America, they tweaked the US constitution to make sure their new government never became too big, powerful, or tyrannical. They gave their president, Jefferson Davis, the power of the line item veto.

I'm not saying the line item veto is right simply because the confederacy did it (I'm actually a Yankee). I'm saying that some of the best and brightest of their day, with years of actual political insider experience, and who were absolutely devoted to keeping government small and limited, did not fear the dangers of executive tyranny from the line item veto. So why should we?

Art Eatman
August 7, 2006, 09:40 PM
By and large a pleasant discussion, but it's not really stayed anywhere near pertinent to THR stuff.

Art

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