[possum]

i personally carry DAO pistols, and none of them have external safeties So i was wondering who's carry piece has an actual safety, thumb safety, not a grip safety like the 1911 or the safe assurance system(xd, glocks). Why do you carry a gun with a safety if you do, or if you don't why not! I am curious how you guys think. everytime i take someone to the range they ask "where is the safety" i tell them that there is no external safety, and that the safety is an internal thing when appropriate, and they say stuff like "i don't like that", or" that is dangerous", "don't you have a small child" so on and so on. Thanks.

[Redneck with a 40]

I usually carry a Taurus millenium pro 40. This gun is a DAO with an external safety. For me, the external safety adds a comfort margin. I carry one in the chamber, safety on. That way in an emergency, all I have to do is thumb the safety off. I've heard horror stories about glock's, the trigger gets depressed when re-holstering and.....bang! Not good! Its just my personal preference, I like the external safety.

[RickSavage]

Sorry, DAO ???? whats that mean ?

[10-Ring]

DAO = Double Action Only
Now, when I do carry, it is w/ a loaded chamber, hammer down, safety off
No DAO in the group

[MNgoldenbear]

RickSavage:
DAO = double-action only (trigger cocks hammer and releases for every shot)

possum:
Tell them a manual safety has nothing to do with small children! You don't let small children handle guns until they're mature enough to do so (various ages for various individuals). "Dangerous" -- so they think revolvers are dangerous (i.e. prone to ADs/NDs)?

Redneck with a 40:
(is that caliber or ounce?:) ) I've heard the stories of Glock NDs reholstering as well. A SF area PD was changing from Glocks for that reason. The problem was obvious -- TRAINING! The officers had just switched from revolvers which had holsters that left the trigger guards exposed. They were used to drawing and holstering with their finger on the trigger! Swap to an auto (without manual safety or with safety off) and covered trigger guard and ... BOOM!.

[possum]

Sorry, DAO ???? whats that mean ?
Double action only, means there is one consistant trigger pull everytime you pull the trigger.
DA/SA or double action/ single action means that there is a longer, harder trigger pull on the first pull, and a lighter pull everytime after that, unless you pull the hammer back, if the pistol you are shooting allows this.

possum:
Tell them a manual safety has nothing to do with small children! You don't let small children handle guns until they're mature enough to do so (various ages for various individuals).

MNGOLDENBEAR,
no no my dauhgter is 19 months old she dosen't get no where near my weapons. and when she is old enough, i think around 7 yrs old if she is mature enough and ready as you mentioned, about the age i was, then she will be able to learn about them and shoot them, but i am definetly gonna be in her hip pocket anytime there is a weapon involved. Hell i hate giving some privates m16's and there in there 20's.:)

[mattw]

1911 here. cocked and locked, baby! condition one, ready to rock and roll!

[Nitrogen]

No external safeties, other than a holster that covers the trigger guard, and the one between my ears.

I know enough about myself that If I need to draw my weapon, there's a 50/50 chance i'll not take a safety off.

[ugaarguy]

I voted both. My BUG/ primary gun for gym shorts & t-shirt is a Kel-Tec P3AT, which is DAO; my other primaries are a S&W M66 snubbie, obviously no safety there, and the BHP or 1911, both carried cocked & locked.

[MCgunner]

DAO auto and a DA revolver, no safeties. Prefer not mixing trigger types too much in the interest of proper training. I do have a decocker on my .45. I carry it now and then.

[hankdatank1362]

I've heard about those ADs with GLOCKs as well. It's the only thing keeping me from getting one. Does anyone know if that's just a rumor, or if there is some base of truth to this? (I've also heard about GLOCK KBs, and was wondering if that was a rumor as well)

[gbelleh]

I usually carry either a DAO with no safety or a DA/SA with hammer down safety off. Any gun I carry will fire when the trigger is pulled. No manipulation of a safety needed, even if one is present. That keeps everything consistent.

[Lennyjoe]

At one time I used to carry one of each. 1911 cocked and locked and a DAO P3AT for back up.

Now its either/or. Kimber 1911 or a Glock 20.

[MCgunner]

I've heard about those ADs with GLOCKs as well. It's the only thing keeping me from getting one. Does anyone know if that's just a rumor, or if there is some base of truth to this? (I've also heard about GLOCK KBs, and was wondering if that was a rumor as well)

I don't like Glocks because of how easy the thing can go off with 4 lbs of trigger pull. Heck, that's only a pound more than I adjust my hunting rifles. Any lighter on those rifles and I can't properly feel the sear with gloves on.

I'm sure there's a little hype and exaggeration to some of the AD stories from guys that hate plastic, but I'm also sure there are ADs considering the number of agencies that carry the things and the minimal training some of their cops get.

If I carried one, there'd be one of those plastic safety things behind the trigger, forget what they're called and too lazy to google it. It's a red thing that snaps in behind the trigger and will not allow trigger movement, but will pop out with a push of the index finger. That seems like a good safety compromise if you just love Glocks. They make some nice sized guns in about every caliber. The G19 is a nice sized double stack 9, the G30 and 36 in .45ACP are impressively compact in a powerful caliber. But, I prefer a real DAO. If I was an auto kinda guy (prefer revolvers for outdoors, SA at that), I'd probably carry a G20 in the field. I've fired one, nice gun, light recoil for such a powerful (10mm) round. It's an acceptably accurate gun to 50 yards, too.

If I ever do go with a glock, another thing I'd add is the 8 lb "New York" trigger spring, for safety reasons. It'd be a little more like a DAO with an 8 lbs trigger, even though it's an awfully short trigger travel. I'm an old revolver guy and a true DAO is comforting to me knowing I can shoot it well, just draw and fire, yet it's ready for action and safe as safe gets in a pocket holster.

And, before some Glockster says "safety is between the ears", I'll just add that it don't hurt to have some hardware safety in the gun to go along with the between the ears thing. No one should carry a gun that doesn't know safe gun handling, I don't care what design, but a safe design is a desirable thing to me.

[Cousin Mike]

Used to be a 1911, cocked & locked kind of guy when I first started with this whole carrying thing.

Now my carry gun is my Sig Pro, which has no external safety. I just like the idea of deploying a weapon ready for use in case I ever need to. Also, the grip safety on my 1911 recently just stopped working, which has reduced my faith in safeties quite a bit. I could only imagine what would happen should someone need to pull their sidearm and have the thumb safety prove non-functional. Ew, I don't even like to think about that. :(

I will also carry my new Taurus revolver, which technically does have a safety. However, it's a hammer lock which uses a key, and will never be in use unless it's left here when no one's home.

As for AD/ND's with Glocks, I suggest you take a trip on over to Glocktalk forums and look around. It seems like everyone over there has shot themselves at least once while field stripping or re-holstering. I'm one of those who just doesn't care for Glocks anyways though, so I'd probably never buy one based on that. But based solely on what I've read, either Glocks or their owners (or both) seem to be a tad bit accident-prone.

[Pistol Toter]

Well fellows, I carry a Glock 21 about 40 percent of the time the balance it's a SP101. If I'm carrying the Glock a lot, every few days I wipe off the slide with a silicon rag and brush the lint from the magizine well, but I also wipe down my Ruger witht he same regularity. If I strip the gun: (1) I drop the magizine, (2)eject the chamber round, (3)collect the magizine and that round and remove it from the area, usually put in my desk drawer. (4)Next I retract the slide and lock it open, (5)stick my finger in the action and into the breech, (6)then I make an additional visual check, (7)drop the slide, point it in a safe direction and (8)pull the trigger. (9)Continue disassembly. (10)That's the only time I put my finger inside the trigger guard unless I going to fire the gun and that only immeadiately prior to discharge. I carry my Glock in a pancake style holster that covers completely the trigger guard and has a retention strap. If I am going to carry the G21, I put the holster on my belt interlocking the holster between belt loops and only then do I holster the gun, being very careful and cognizent of the position of the retention strap and the position my my index finger. My Glock has the stock 5.5 lb trigger connector. Is extra care required when carring the Glock? In my opinion, that is a definite YES. But, all guns are loaded and must be treated as such. Keep your finger off the trigger and don't point it at anything that you do not want to distroy, all common sense. You maybe saying that I'm a Glock affectioniado. Let me assure you, I'M NOT! It is a very dangerious tool, a tool with little to keep it form killing, maming or tearing the heck out of something but so is an automobile. So why do I carry one? Well it is basicly the same manual of arms as a revolver. A revolver does not have a safety either, just a stiff trigger unless it is cocked. the first line of saftey is your brain in conjunction with appliances for carring a weapon, and well thought out planning and practice if depolyment is required. Are there safer guns? YES. Ones that are unloaded with no firing pins.

[Pilot]

I carry both types, but most of my guns do have an external safety.

[ccw9mm]

No external safety, since I believe it detracts from the utility as a defensive weapon in defensive situations.

On my original pistol, a 1994 vintage Browning BDM 9mm, its ambidextrous decocker/safety was, for me, a useful feature to help with learning proper firearms safety. Easy to manipulate, easy to put into safe/fire modes. From that pistol, I have learned to value the use of a decocker. I've had DAO or decocker models strictly, since then.

[cslinger]

No external safety as it is something I just haven't practiced enough with. I prefer being able to simply draw and shoot hence no other buttons or gehaws to worry about.

[Ala Dan]

Cuz its a 1911A1 .45 ACP~!:cool: :D

[redneckdan]

cocked and locked

[browningguy]

I'm with the cocked and locked crowd.

Browning High Power 40 S&W (x2)
Browning High Power 9mm (x2)
Witness PS 9mm
Witness Match 40 S&W
Even my little Beretta 21 in 25 ACP, my Bersa .380 has a safety/decocker so you can't carry it the right way.

Why? Well I grew up shooting 1911's and High Powers, my uncle had a SA revolver for hunting but every other pistol I shot was an SA semi automatic. In the Navy we had 1911's, all my rifles and shotguns have external safeties. So for me it's the right answer, I see the DAO's as just too easy to make a mistake/have an accident/ND/AD/etc. And if you can't learn to swipe a safety off...

[TexasRifleman]

I carry a little of both, Sig239 which has no safety, and 1911 now and then which is always cocked and locked (Is there any other way with a 1911?)

That said, when I get questions like:
"Isn't it dangerous to have that cocked?" or
"Isn't that dangerous without a safety?"

I usually just answer "Yes, it's very dangerous, have a nice day".

[kokapelli]

Redneck with a 40
I usually carry a Taurus millenium pro 40. This gun is a DAO with an external safety. For me, the external safety adds a comfort margin. I carry one in the chamber, safety on. That way in an emergency, all I have to do is thumb the safety off. I've heard horror stories about glock's, the trigger gets depressed when re-holstering and.....bang! Not good! Its just my personal preference, I like the external safety.

Redneck, actually the millennium Pro is a single action, but will revert to double action when you get a fail to fire.

In other words, when you rack the slide to chamber a round, the gun is c-ocked and has a very short single action trigger.

If there is a misfire the trigger will revert to a long DAO mode and c-ock and fire.

[shield20]

Yes safety on a single action of course, but no use on a QA, DAO, DA/SA etc. I do however love a decocker .

[Redneck with a 40]

Kokapelli, my taurus millenium pro has an 8 lb trigger pull from the first shot to the last, it is double action only, it has NO external hammer.

[kokapelli]

Yep, mine is a striker fired too, but once the slide has been racked, it is single action.

After I fire a round, I only have to ease the trigger back about 1/8th of an inch for it to reset.

Mine is new, maybe they changed the trigger in the later ones!!

[MadMercS55]

My usual carry pieces don't have an external safety, SIG P220/P226/P228, etc. I occasionally carry a SIG 1911, and do have the safety engaged on it. I have also carried a Beretta 92FS, and while it does have a safety, I never used it, same with my PX4's.

[bpisler]

I think the newer Mil pro's with the dove tailed
sights have the S/A D/A triggers.

[kansas45]

I carry my 1911 cocked & locked. It's always ready for action. On the other hand my XD45 Tactical is just as safe. I guess it boiles down to what you prefer.

[jman74]

1911. Condition one. Once in a great while I'll carry my P220, xo I guess I should really say both.

[PWRDbyTRD]

I was always under the impression that a safety was to keep a gun from going off when being dropped. Maybe I'm wrong. My opinion is that if you can't control your finger then you shouldn't be touching a gun. I like the idea that if I pull the trigger it'll go off, that's how I want it, no extra switches. If I ever have to use my gun the last thing I want to think about is if my safety is disengaged.

[clange]

Guns I carry (or used to carry),

Glock 27
XD 9
Kel-tec P11
Kel-tec P32
Beretta 92FS

On the rare times I carry the 92 its safety off and sometimes cocked. I dont want to have to remember a safety.

[MCgunner]

I carry the 92 its safety off and sometimes cocked.

:eek:

[clange]

Its not that far off from a glock, 5-6 lb trigger. I cock it in the holster (hard leather sides) and decock it in the holster.

[SAG0282]

I have one of each, a SIG Pro and Beretta PX4. I voted "w/o" because the SIG sees the most use, and the Beretta is never carried on safe. I think the SIG has the best idea when it comes to safety.....long but smooth DA pull requiring a conscious effort, good SA action, and a very ergonomic frame-mounted decocker. That and the superior quality is why SIGs are what I prefer.

[MCgunner]

Its not that far off from a glock, 5-6 lb trigger. I cock it in the holster (hard leather sides) and decock it in the holster.

Well, okey dokey then, I'm glad I'm not your leg. :eek: I don't like glocks for that very reason, too light on the trigger and no safety. One of the things about a 1911 is it has redundant safeties. If that hammer's back, I consider that a GOOD thing.

For safety's sake, learn to shoot that first shot DA, that's why the gun has it. And, I have heard of decockers failing and the gun going bang. I always point the gun in a safe direction, but am especially cognizant of that when I'm decocking.

[DA GOOCH]

:) well i carry my 1911 one in the pipe hammer down and safety off, but thats my only handgun with an external safety.

[clange]

Well, okey dokey then, I'm glad I'm not your leg. I don't like glocks for that very reason, too light on the trigger and no safety. One of the things about a 1911 is it has redundant safeties. If that hammer's back, I consider that a GOOD thing.

For safety's sake, learn to shoot that first shot DA, that's why the gun has it. And, I have heard of decockers failing and the gun going bang. I always point the gun in a safe direction, but am especially cognizant of that when I'm decocking.
Well the 92s decocker cant really fail, when the hammer drops the striker isnt lined up with the firing pin. Theres nothing for the hammer to hit except the slide. And it still has the firing pin safety.

Regardless, I do keep it pointed it in a safe direction when decocking.

When the hammer is back you still have the half-cock and firing pin safety. First the sear holding the hammer would have to fail, then half-cock, then the firing pin safety. All three would have to fail for the gun to go off without the trigger being pulled. The two holsters I have for it have very hard sides, so the trigger cant get pulled in the holster.

I'm not saying its super safe, but its safe enough for me.

[makarovnik]

but I don't use the safety. I carry one in the chamber hammer uncocked, safety off. It has a rebounding hammer and the firing pin is blocked unless the trigger is fully depressed. I like this because all I have to do is point and pull the trigger. It's so safe you could drop it hammer first on the concrete and it won't go off.

With my striker fired pistols I don't carry with a round in the chamber. I don't trust them. That sucks and that's why I almost always carry the makarov.

[1911 guy]

I carry a "cocked and locked" 1911. External safety and grip safety. It was designed that way, is safe that way and is fast that way, comments about "a safety to think about" notwithstanding. If you're thinking about your drawstroke, you are likely already losing the fight. Think strategy, do technique.

Now I'm gonna step on toes. The trigger on a Glock is not comparable to a DA revolver. It's much shorter and lighter. There's nothing preventing a poorly designed holster (remember all those "wanna buy a cheap holster" threads?), careless handling (I'm the only one professional enough...) or Mr. Murpy (who lives in my dive bag and is trying to kill me) from making that four pound press and ruining your day.

Carry a DA revolver? Sure. I've even carried an M-9 with one up the pipe because it's got a reasonable DA trigger. CZ's with decockers? Ditto. Glocks were designed for the lowest common denominator and least trained. point and click. They made their fame with the Wundernine craze prior to the AWB. With any luck, some foreward thinking manufacturer will take all that is good about the design, rework it into something with a supported chamber with a less accident prone ignition system and let the original design die a slow and ingominious death.

[Essex County]

Cocked and Locked 1911 or a Star BM..........Essex

[Ichiro]

DAO revolvers. No safeties, but long and heavy trigger pull.

[Exposure]

No external safety for me. Sig P226 with one in the chamber and the hammer down.

[Big Gay Al]

First, I don't like DAO pistols. If I did, I'd get a revolver...wait, I DO have a revolver. ;) Of course, it's not DAO. I can cock the hammer for single action use if I want to.

Second, ALL my semi-auto pistols have an external safety. All but one of them work the same way. Almost exactly like the safety on a 1911. Up for safe, down to shoot. And one of those, my PT911 has a decocker on it.

With all of them, I carry them cocked and locked, even though, both Taurus pistols and the Witness are SA/DA capable.

The one that doesn't work the same way is my Bersa Thunder .380. But then it's primarily a BUG. Safety is, on all of them, ON all the time. Regardless of hammer position.

Reason: I've heard more than one story of a cop being saved from being shot with his own gun because the safety was on when the BG got it, and didn't know how to release it.

That, and at 50, I'm too old to learn new tricks. ;)

[hnk45acp]

I carry my HK USPcompact C&L mainly because of the gun grab angle. I tend to be in crowded situations and it gives me a margin of safety.

Interestingly I was thinking of switching to a P2000 which doesn't have a safety. I practiced about 200 rounds of draw-shoot-reholster between the 2 and found I shot the USPc better even though I had to thumb the safety every time.

At first I chalked it up to my familiarity w/ my own weapon but I realized that the P2000s trigger pull was much longer (it was a Variant 3 DA/SA) even on the SA shots. It took me less time to thumb the safety off than it did for me to pull the trigger.

Of course if you practice the same way every time whether you have a safety, DAO, DA/SA gun you should be OK even in a stress situation

[Billy_H]

Like someone else has mentioned I don't really like the idea of mixing trigger styles. One, I'm just partial to a SA/DA and secondly I like knowing that no matter where I am, or which pistol I grab it is going to function the same (in regards to the trigger) as the others I have (also why all pistols in my house are stored the same way).

So to answer the question, I carry a SA/DA with no external safety but with a decocker. I carry with one in the chamber, hammer down.


All that being said, I do plan on picking up a 1911 to compliment the BHP that I'll be taking from my dad when I put him in a "home". ;) :p Hell it was supposed to be mine when I turned 18...but he does let me borrow it and not ask for it back for ~6 mnths at a time.

[Marshall]

Three types I carry...........

Hi Powers cocked and locked.

XD-40 Well, call it what you wish.

Model 60 .357 Mag Double action

[WayneConrad]

When it comes to safety or no, and one trigger type vs. another:

Of course, you are going to train enough with your sidearm that you don't have to think about how to operate it. And having so trained, the particulars of how it works won't matter, because they are in "muscle memory" and require no conscious thought from you.

Ain't it the man, not the machine, that matters most?

[Rumble]

DA/SA Sig P239. I don't carry guns with safeties, if only for the reason that the only handgun I own with a safety is my 1911, and I don't carry it because it's big. If I ever do decide to carry it, I will have to invest quite a bit of training time to make switching the safety off instinctive.

[cookekdjr]

I do not buy guns with safeties. I like simplicty. If the gun is loaded, it will go bang when I pull the trigger. End of story. Lots of folks like 1911's, that's cool for them, I understand they are great and why.
For me, though, I prefer either:

1. Striker-fired actions like a Glock's;
2. SA/DA's with decocker but no safety, like SIG's; or
3. Double Action revolvers, like a S&W 637 or even a DAO like the 642.

Maybe when I can practice more I'll go the "cocked and locked" route.
Until then I'll have a Glock, SIG, or revolver nearby.
-David

[Geno]

Depends. If I carry the G17, XD or P3AT, they're cocked and no safety--always carried externally, on the side or in a shoulder rig. If I carry the 1911 or BHP, they're cocked and locked same positions or sometimes IWB.

I prefer the striker for a no hesitation reaction, but face it, that external safety also gives one a sense of safety if carrying IWB upfront, if you know what I mean. :what: Don't ever wanna be called--"Stumpy".

Doc2005

[Lonestar]

I have both. Regardless if I'm using a revolver, a semi auto with/or without a safety or even my cordless drill, my thumb automaticly sweeps as if to turn off the safety. For those just starting to shoot and don't have this ingrained in you get a revolver or a semi-auto without a safety. You don't want to get in a bad situation pulling on the trigger and wondering what your gun in not going BANG.

[gandog56]

Frigging Nazis in Illinois won't let me carry!

[possum]

Thanks to everyone so far, i apprecite all the info, and learned alot about the way other people think about the issue. Thanks again, ya'll are awesome!

[enfield]

My preferred carry guns are a Sig 239 and a Smith 638. Not a safety among them and none needed, other than the trigger.

[el44vaquero]

cocked, locked, and ready to rock! :cool:

[Flopsy]

I carry mine with the safety on. I really don't buy the "I don't want to have to think about a safety in an emergency" thing, although I hear it all the time. What, seriously, HOW HARD is it to think of a safety? And yeah, I've heard "well in a panic emergency confusing situation it's an added step to think about..." Well sure, but in an emergency situation I'm not going to suddenly turn into a blithering idiot and forget that I have a safety to switch off.

And if you're really going to say that in a panic, remembering to hit the safety in a confusing situation might be difficult, couldn't that emergency panic mode make you more likely to hit the trigger as well? I would think that would be a much more likely mistake in a panic than forgetting or fumbling the safety...after all, there's a reason why it's called a "safety."

[Big Gay Al]

I would think, as long as you practice your draw technique, and as long as that practice INCLUDES taking the safety off, it should almost become an automatic reflex.

Practice, practice, practice.

[kokapelli]

There used to be video going around from the security camera in a jewelry store.

A BG enters and pulls a gun.

The jewelry salesman does a really fast draw of his auto pistol and tries to fire it, but nothing happens!:uhoh:

The BG shoots a number of times at point blank range, hitting the Jewelry store guy a number of times. :eek:

Luckily for the clerk, the BG only has a 22cal and the good guy survives the shooting.:)

It turns out that the clerk forgot to disengage the safety on his pistol!

Judging from the speed of the clerks draw, I would guess that he has done some practicing, but under pressure, still forgot to knock the safety off!:eek:

People don't always react the way they think they will when TSHTF!:scrutiny:

[Big Gay Al]

I've seen the video. It wasn't a clerk, it was the owner. And I've seen people draw that fast without practice. In either event, I'd guess he didn't practice taking the safety off.

You have to practice ALL aspects of the draw. Pulling the pistol out, extending, aiming, pushing off the safety, and firing.

Dry fire practice is a good idea, as long as you can do it safely.

Needing to keep things simple is another reason I prefer to pick pistols with safeties that all work the same way. My one exception has been the Bersa Thunder .380. But since it's a BUG, and kept completely hidden, I usually carry it with the safety off.

[kokapelli]

I agree about keeping it simple and of all the pistols I have and even though I can shoot the single actions best,, I like the DAO triggers in my XD, Kahr K9 and my P-3ATs.

[Blacklabman]

For Self Defense and USPSA/IPSC.
I hate any and all pistols with a manual safety.
Glocks and the standard DA/SA Sigs for me.

[Big Gay Al]

Simple is one thing, no safety is something else again. Don't ask me why, I can't fully explain it. But I prefer my automatic pistols to have manual safeties. For the same reason, I also perfer cocked and locked over DA/SA. And I don't like DAO.

Fortunately, many firearms are made that can be carried C&L, like the Taurus PT92 series, and the EAA Witness, and some others. :D

[kokapelli]

The Springfield XDs have a grip safety and also have an excellent DAO trigger.

[Autolycus]

Seems like a lot of the safeties are redundant in my eyes. But thats just me. I read "shooting to live" and they were talking about keeping the safety off on a 1911. I like my HK P2000 just fine. I have the LEM trigger. Reminds me of a good revolver. But to each their own. Just practice with it and you will be fine.

[Srigs]

I only carry DAO guns. Just draw, point and pull the trigger and it goes bang. You can use different types of guns that ways but they all act the same with nothing special to remember. :scrutiny: