[madhatta]

I know I should just walk away and not let these things bother me...BUT
I was in a major large gun shop in the northeast last weekend. I was waiting to look at a gun and the guy behind the counter was showing a guy some S&W lightweight revolvers. The customer did not know much about titanium/scandium etc. and was surprised at the weights and wondered if even firing some .38sp. would be too much of a handful. I mentioned that the new smith catalog had that lightweight .44mag in it. The guy behind the counter gives me this 'look' then says 'a lightweight .44mag !?!?' (more 'looks'), then he leans over the case and looks down and comes back up and says "I dont think so- Smith makes a lightweight .44 sp." His condescending look and the fact that he checked his case was basically his way of saying - "well if its not in OUR case then it simply doesn't exist"
anyway- this problem goes beyond just 'gun dealer ignorance' What happened to the day when as part of your JOB, you were required to be familiar with the items you are selling, what is available, what may be available in the future... etc.etc.?? I mean, this is a customer service issue, or lack-there-of in the majority of my recent experiences....

[El Tejon]

mad, no it is inherent to the gun industry. Many, if not all, believe they are engaged in business not to make money (sort of like gun talk radio). I.e., as Chris Rhines sez, they treat their business as their hobby.

I am continually dismayed at the poor interpersonal skills displayed by gun dealers. "I'd like to see a _______." Instead of saying "yes, sir, right away. How can I help you?" dealers act like you just asked them for $20.00.

As well, what you experienced is mystifying. What happened to "customer is always right"? "I don't think so, sir, but let me check." Break out the catalogue if you don't know or, as here, hit the website. Geez, you exist to make money, so do it.

When I sold guns, I always told the customer they were right. What better way to lose a sale than tell a potential customer they are mistaken or ignorant?

[Landric]

Howdy,

The lack of information also extends to car salesmen.

When car shopping, I have noticed two great truths:

1- I always know more about the car I am interested in than the salesman does.

2- If I want something they don't have (i.e. optional ABS), rather than telling me that they can get it, they try to talk me out of wanting it.

I have walked off more car lots never to return because some salesman tried to talk me out of an option that I wanted on the vehicle simply because he did not have a vehilce with that option. What I would expect the dealer to want to do would be to get the car I wanted for me, not try and talk me out of something that could save my life (like ABS).

Gunshops often seem to be the same way, they try to sell you what they have and bad mouth anything they don't that you ask about. When I find a gun shop that will order what I want (i.e. will order me a S&W 642 rather than trying to sell me the Taurus in the case) then I keep shopping there.

[firestar]

I have found the solution to the gunshop jerks. Just don't ask them anything! They are often rude and sometimes mildly retarded so why bother? The only time I go to gunshops anymore is every couple of months I hit 2-3 that once in a while has a decent deal on a used gun. I think that most of the time, they don't really know what a gun is worth so they just jack up the price to a high number and if it doesn't sell then they lower it until they do. Somtimes they mess up and put a really low price on a gun that is worth more, thats when I buy it. I once got a really nice single shot 12ga from this place because it had a cracked buttstock, it was only $20.

[WhoKnowsWho]

Wish I could find deals... saw a Mosin Nagant yesterday, a layer of rust thicker than the metal itself, cracked stock, barrel looked ruined, still was marked $50. I don't even think the bolt would open, sealed with rust...

I only have a couple of good people to talk to at shops, it seems like most don't even know what the SHOT show is...

[guy sajer]

Hey guys , it's me . The mildly retarded , often rude , gun shop jerk . ;)

As in every retail or customer service business , it is harder than h3!! to keep watch over our employees through every sale . We do our best to hire the best available for not the highest wage out there .
I try to impress on our people that I would insist they say "I don't know , but I'll find out right away" . Your expectations are a little high to expect a shop employee to know all there is about the products available to gun shops . I've been the buyer in our family store for 18 yrs and I would never presume to say that I know it all . Products are introduced and eliminated every year . Way too many to memorize . I do keep a file cabinet stocked with catalogs and info that we gather every year at the SHOT Show so I can quickly reference when a customer asks a question . If it's not there , I call the manufacturer .

What is highly annoying is the "know it all" customer that interjects himself and his "expert" advice into my sale while I'm waiting on another customer . He over hears us discussing a gun and butts in to take control of the discussion. Totally confusing the customer and causing me to take twice as long with the sale or even losing the sale. Meanwhile , other customers are waiting for help .

Are we perfect ? No way . Do we try . Your darn right !

Mitch
www.oldeenglishoutfitters.com

[Handy]

Smith needs to update their website to match the catalog. That gun is not listed.


What is the model number?

[Darrin]

Wow! So all of you have been to Gun City in Nashville? :confused:








:neener: ;)

Actually, that's the only gun shop I've visited so far in the Nashville area(s) that's been as you described. I can think of 3 off the top of my head that are full of great guys and gals behind the counter.

[trimation]

Landric,

Obviously you have been visiting the wrong dealerships. I have been employed as a professional car salesman for over three years and I spend at least five hours every week studying the vehicles that I sell, new and used.

Some salespeople do take their jobs seriously.

[Albert Shear]

It is a 329PD

[Keith]

>>>>What is highly annoying is the "know it all" customer that interjects himself and his "expert" advice into my sale while I'm waiting on another customer .<<<<

I had the same thought when reading the opening post of this thread. No doubt the clerk could have handled it better...
The clerk should have just looked up (smiling) and replied "Do they?" and then resumed his transaction with the customer interested in the .38 special.

The best gun stores have a certain aura that encourages people to stop in and just chat about guns, hunting, whatever. That's nice, but it's also sometimes difficult to separate business from socializing. It's particularly annoying when you're trying to make a sale and somebody pops into the middle of a transaction uninvited.

How would you feel if gun store clerks popped into your office and began giving unsolicited advice to your customers?

[dairycreek]

if he could give me a price and availability information on a particular Ruger revolver. His reply, "no such gun"! Two hours later he called me and said that he had found one and did I want to buy it. I told him I would give it some thought (and I will). At least he called back. Good shooting;)

[BlkHawk73]

What is highly annoying is the "know it all" customer that interjects himself and his "expert" advice into my sale while I'm waiting on another customer

Couldn't agree more. Unless the clerk was telling an outrgiht lie to the customer, I see no reason to become part of the sale. I see it as rude to the customer who is trying to focus on the clerk. I also see it as rude to the clerk. If they don't interrupt you at your work, don't do it to them.
In this case, where as the discussion was about concerns on .38 special recoil, I see no reason why an intergection about a .44would be pertanant (sp?). However, the clerk's response was also uncalled for. Did retail for 9 yrs and no, there's nothing wrong with letting a customer know they are mistaken so long as you can do it politely and be able to back-up what you are saying.
Personally, if I see a potential sale being made, I'll stay clear so to not interfere in any way. If I do see a sale, and it of a firearms I have positive xp. with, I may let the customer know my satisfaction with the model while thier NICS goes through. Even still, be positive and not a bragger.

[CatsDieNow]

I walked into a local gun shop the other day to do a transfer and the guy wanted $100 to do it. He said that was typical for this area. I told him I would never bother to shop there again. 'Cheaper than Dirt' seemed to have no problem doing it for $20.

I hate getting treated like an target for price inflation when I go to one of the good ol' boys hangouts. Women buy guns and car parts too!

[JohnK]

We do our best to hire the best available for not the highest wage out there .

Some might say you get what you pay for.

guy sajer, you sound like you're either in management or maybe the owner of a gunshop. How do you screen out the swat member/delta force commando wanna be's who seem to be hired at so many gun shops? Do you query them to see what kind of knowledge they have about current products before hiring?

I'm not trying to flame you, it's not often that we get a chance to question someone from the other side of the counter. :)

[guy sajer]

John
You are correct sir . Is it hot in here ? :-)

We're a family business . My uncle and his son own the store . I've been doing most or all of the gun and accesory buying for 18yrs .
Most of our people are here because they like guns and we treat them well . Not to make the big bucks . We pay a fair wage and cover insurance for full timers .
Regardless of what many members at these firearm web sites think , we aren't getting rich . We pay the bills and employ about 15 . We sell about 7,000 guns a year out of 1 store .
In 29 yrs , we have never advertised for employees . We are always accepting applications . Our turnover rate is almost nill . Average employee time here is about 7 yrs . We screen prospects for product knowledge , but more importanly communication skills and how they project themselves . Most or all of our people were customers , so we had some idea of "who they are" ahead of time .

We get paid to handle all kinds of guns . From the newest model available , to Civil War models .
We like what we do . If we didn't work here , we'd have to get a real job .

Cat
$100 is a bit steep . We charge $35 . We have a fair number of female customers . We have 4 female employees . You're not a target here .

Mitch English
Olde English Outfitters

[El Tejon]

Cats, yeah, free market!:D Of course, refusing to do business with these morons is the solution. Let bankruptcy court take them all.

Cats, you didn't throw your Alamo can at the gun shoppe hobbyist/owner did you?:eek:

[JohnK]

Thanks Guy, it sounds like you run a tight ship there.

"We pay a fair wage and cover insurance for full timers ."

That's very generous, I wish every job I've had came with insurance! I've had jobs working 14 hours a day without any kind of medical ins.

You aren't planning on expanding to the Seattle area are you? :)

[JohnKSa]

I walked into a local gun shop the other day to do a transfer and the guy wanted $100 to do it. He said that was typical for this area.
That is pure Bravo Sierra! I've been buying guns in this area for over a decade and NEVER had anyone ask for more than $35 for a transfer.

Just had one done for $25 yesterday, and I even know of one guy who will do them for $10. He's too far to drive to most of the time though. He's not a kitchen table dealer either, he's runs a shop and a shooting range.

[Majic]

Back in March of this year I was in my favorite toy store making a trade for a M29 MG. While all the paperwork was being processed I stepped over to the single action gun counter and asked to see the Limited Edition 5.5" Ruger Bisley. The young fellow at that counter told me that they didn't have that model and that no such gun existed in .45 Colt. I thanked him and walked back to finish my transaction. After I had traded guns with the dealer that was handling my transaction I got him to go over to the single action counter and reach in a get the Bisley that I saw but didn't exist. It was displayed on the top row among several blue steel Blackhawks, kinda hard not to see it. It's now at home with me, after the wait because of our 1 gun a month law, but I would have missed out on the only one they if I had listened to the salesman and not believed the fact that I was looking right at it from a distance of 2 feet. The young fellow was very polite and couteous, but his ignorance really showed as he told me the gun didn't exist and he was standing right over it.

[mrtgbnkr]

Mitch,
I love spending time in your shop...you have a great staff of friendly, knowledgable, and no pressure sales people. Thanks.

Mark

[Jim K]

Ignorance can do more than just tick off the customer.

I was looking at a rickety old Damascus barrel double in a shop one day, when a kid (no, I really mean kid, not over 19) wandered in from the back, announced that he was a gunsmith, and proceded to tell me, loudly, that "those Damascus barrels" were much stronger than modern steel and that it would be OK to shoot 2 3/4 Magnums in the gun.

I quietly handed the gun back and got my tail out of there before he decided to try to prove his nonsense. Probably someone did buy the gun but I hope he didn't follow the "expert" advice.

Jim

[charleym3]

A few months ago I was in a local highend gun store/shooting range. I was looking for a Ruger .357/omm convertable. The guy says, no they don't have one, then thought for a minute and says that Ruger doesn't even make one. At that point I spotted one in the case. Not the model I was hoping for, but a convertable none the less. Anyways, I listen to the guy tell me how you can;t shoot a 9mm in a revolver because of the straghtwall case ?!?!?
Finally I said"Look, no offence, but is there someone else more knowledgable that I could talk to." Oops. A month later the guy sees me walk in and starts wispering to another employee. I won't be getting any bargains there.
In that same trip he was telling a would-be auto pistol buyer that the average criminal won't be able to use a 1911 against him even if they get it away from him because they won't know how to hold it to depress the grip safty. :banghead: What the buyer wanted and needed was to try out some different platforms and see what he liked. I asked "So if I just take hold of it normally the grip safety won't be depressed and the gun won't work? After a bit of conversation the dummy behind the counter admitted that there was no secret hand shake that you had to do with the $1400 Kimber to make it go off.
I don't believe that individual works there any more.

[gudel]

ahh... i see similarities in computer shops as well. if you go to compusa etc. there are sales people, keyword: sales. they're hired because they're supposed to sell things, not necessarily 110% god-know-it-all in what they're selling. i don't really blame the sales people doing their job. fair enough to me.

some of them do try hard to help people, gunshops here seems to be very knowledgeable on their items. they're friendly, and i never heard they say "you like that commie gun?" or say "get this, this is better than the one you're holding!" maybe it's the way you interact with the shopkeeper. or maybe it's just the people in your area behave like that. :D

the most annoying to me is not the sales people, but smart aleck customers. :banghead:

[denfoote]

I mentioned that the new smith catalog had that lightweight .44mag in it.

I defense of this poor guy, the .44 MAG Sc/TI Smith is so new, that he probably has not had the time to be made aware of it's existence!! You did mention that it was a "major large gunshop"!!! I would think that most of the product information that these guys receive comes from factory reps or customers, like you, that request certain things. I know that at the gunshop where I hang out, the only time the salesman picks up a catalog is when somebody asks for something that he doesn't have in the case!! Anyway, the thought of an Sc/Ti .44MAG is so fantastic to the average person, especially one who has shot the steel revolver, that it would be somewhat hard to believe!!! :eek:

[guy sajer]

Factory reps do not visit us but maybe once a year . Some not at all . I can't recall the last time a Colt rep was in the store .

The big difference seems to be that manufacturers rep groups make somewhat regular visits . They are hired by the mfg to service the accounts .
ex : Browning/USRAC , S&W , Savage , Weatherby , . They drop off literature and make themselves available for in store promotions .

Company people that don't use rep groups don't show up very often if at all .
ex: Colt , Ruger, Marlin/H&R
Beretta is the exception . Their factory man is a hard worker and visits us several times a year .

I blame the stores for not educating their employees about new products . You have to hire "gun people" that are interested in what they sell . Not simply hire sales people .

About the 329ti . I was asking my rep from RSR the other day if he'd had any feedback yet . I had held one at the SHOT Show and said to myself "someone is going to get hurt with this!" He told me one of his accounts reported back that a guy shot about 1/2 a box through one and had split the web of his hand open between his thumb and index finger just from the recoil !:eek:

Mitch

[P95Carry]

Whilst we do hope for knowledgable service from the gun shops I think too it does behove us, as prospective purchasors, to be well up on info for what we seek ..... when possible anyways.

The unfortunate situation is where the sales guy cannot and will not accept that he ''don't know it all'' ..... I admit too that some ''know-it-all'' customers can well be a pain in a$$!!

My local gun shop is i think well balanced in as much as, if I am there and one of them is not sure of something, they'll ask ... me, or another customer they know is well into guns and shooting. The question might be about powders, action types and preferences etc ..... but always the question is posed with honesty because they want to learn.... and ''fill a gap''.

I don't mind that ... and if I can't answer something for them, someone else usually will ..... and the effect is that relationships are good .... the trust factor is better, because the guys there are not too embarrassed to ask.

[Newton]

I find idiots on both sides of the counter when I visit gunstores. The most depressing fact is that I have now had to accompany 2 of my colleagues to buy their first pistol because they were so apprehensive after going to gunstores on their own and being treated rudely.

I have had sales assistants (they are always old males or teenage males) tell me that FMJs are not manufactured for .38 Specials, that the Makarov DA trigger was designed to work only if it was "slapped" (to get out of a poor repair job), and that the 1911 was originally designed by the Belgians.

On the other hand, I find the know it all, "I hang round in gunstores all day" types to be even worse on occasion. These characters are everywhere and seem to want to interrupt every sale so as to impress the customer, embarass the sales assistant, and convince everyone in the store that the ONLY viable carry piece is an 8 inch barrelled .22LR with a red dot scope.

I must have been in a hundred gun stores all over the country, and I would say that no more than 6 were polite and helpful.

Unfortunately, gun sales seems to attract the wrong type of people. We need to see more assistants wearing shirts & ties instead of baggy jeans and ball caps. I also don't believe that handguns should be worn openly by sales staff, new shooters find that intimidating, and quite frankly, it looks stupid. Carry them concealed.

Gun store owners need to create a friendlier, more professional atmosphere, and most of them really don't have a clue about how to achieve that.

[Wildalaska]

A few more comments..

Rep groups? What are they? Oh, you mean the guys that get paid $$ everytime you order something in their territory even though they havent stopped to see you...ever? You mean the ones who are so busy selling cheap Chinese trinkets that you cant get them to answer a question for you? They are worthless.

By the way, out local Browning rep is a good guy...but he is an employee of Browning.

Know it all customers? Quite annoying at times, but thats the nature of the businesss.

Sales staff wearing guns openly. Absolutely not a problem, especially when you are wearing a holster that you stock and sell and a high grade gun that you make...


WilditsjustabusinesslikeanyotherAlaska

[Keith]

Let's separate this into two broad categories.

1. is genuine bad information which, unfortunately, happens. You have dummies in every group of people, and on both sides of the counter.

2. is something else again, and if you look at this thread (and other like threads) you note a lot of very subjective statements largely based on the prejudice of the poster being at odds with the prejudice of the gun store clerk.

He thinks the .357/9mm/45 Glock/1911/Revolver is the best choice for the customer and makes some claim - probably based on BS. Another customer hears this and counters that with his own claim - probably also based on BS. Then this gets added to a thread bashing gun dealers/store clerks, etc...

The truth of the matter is that both sides are generally wrong. Any gun, in any caliber, in any configuration, in any price range, may be the right gun for somebody.
The only real criteria for a handgun should be whether it goes "bang" every time. The rest of it is personal choice based on a myriad of possibilities - ergonomics, hand strength, age, concealibility vs bedside gun, recoil tolerance, income levels and yes - personal prejudice!

If one guy thinks he must have the latest plastic-fantastic in tactical black because some gubmint agency with an alphabet name has chosen them - then he should buy it. If the other guy thinks that only a wheelgun or something designed by his honor; John M. Browning, will serve, then he should buy that. Confidence in the weapon (mindset) is more important than the brand name stamped on the slide, or the caliber.

And both of these guys should recognize that Granny (on a fixed income of $511.00 a month) might be very well served with $69 raven .22. This is the level of recoil she can tolerate and this is what she can afford. It doesn't matter if it isn't accurate, because it will be used at close range. And it doesn't matter if it's badly manufactured and won't hold up over time, because she may only shoot it once. And a magazine load of .22's in the snot locker is pretty damned effective - certainly more effective than dialing 911...

I guess what I'm saying here (after reading some of the over-the-top commentary in these threads) is that maybe some of us need to check our premise before lashing out at somebody with a different opinion which (as Wildalaska says...) is equally irrelevant.

Keith

[munk]

I worked my way up from counter to manage a gun store in a heavily populated urban area. I did the best I could but made some few mistakes. In general, I was the guy most people wanted to talk to.

In another part of my life, I worked in mental health as an inpatient counselor. I would say without a doubt dealing with the public is harder than dealing with schizophrenics.

The money is very low in retail, and yet many customers expect the knowledge of a Lyman engineer behind the counter. I could not educate people fast enough and did not have enough time to do so. The best part of the job was finding the right firearm for that individual.

I have also seen the type of Gun Clerk who reminds me a lot of the hi end stereo snobs in retail. Why a clerk working on the floor would develope a superior attitude is ridiculous but a few do.

But we've all seen gunnies with superior attitudes.

In Montana I've found most gun stores have above average knowledge. Probably true of the Mountainess West. In the larger cites knowledge is harder to find but there.

I think the bottom line in sales is the bottom line for all of us- stay friendly, even if things arent going our way.

I try to forgive others and hope they'll forgive me.

munk