Interesting automatic weapons question


PDA






MicroBalrog
May 6, 2003, 11:11 AM
Does anybody know how many violent crimes, as a percentage of the national total, were commited in the U.S. with full-auto weapons, regardless whether legally or illegally held, on the following years:

1933?
1965?
1984?
1987?

Finding that out would be of a great value to us, I think.

If you enjoyed reading about "Interesting automatic weapons question" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
winwun
May 6, 2003, 12:03 PM
Micro, that was the heyday of the naughty boys who went around bothering banks and such, and if you can believe legend and hollywood, a lot of them had squirt guns. Sources might include Treasury and BATF.

Geech
May 6, 2003, 12:21 PM
I don't know for sure, but my guess would be less than 1%.

MicroBalrog
May 6, 2003, 12:22 PM
I don't know for sure, but my guess would be less than 1%.

Yeah, but how did it change over time?

MicroBalrog
May 6, 2003, 12:23 PM
I remember e-maling the ATF about it, but they didn't reply.

Justin
May 6, 2003, 01:57 PM
I would guess that the rate for 1933 would be much higher than subsequent years. After all, prior to 1933, the Volstead act was in full swing so you had a bunch of bootleggers making phat bank and spending it on readily available hardware to protect their interests from other bootleggers and from the cops.

The 1934 National Firearms Act was nothing more than a bandaid on the sucking chest wound of Prohibition, and I doubt that it played as big a part in the reduction of crime than the decriminalization of certain intoxicants, which resulted in kicking the huge profit margin out of the black-market booze biz.

MicroBalrog
May 6, 2003, 01:59 PM
But wasn't the Thompson-wielding bootlegger a rather rare occasion, at least rarer than in the movies?

ACP230
May 6, 2003, 02:31 PM
Bonnie & Clyde had full auto weapons but they weren't Thompsons. They had STOLEN BARs that they got by raiding National Guard Armories.

Some Thompsons were purchased by gangsters and some were used in crimes. The 1934 NFA Act IMO was a sledgehammer solution to a problem requiring a switch.

AK103K
May 6, 2003, 04:28 PM
I dont know that you will ever get a "true" answer to this question. Especially theses days, the media portrays anything that "looks" like a full auto as a full auto. I've also seen the police in their news conferences portray things the same way. Anything to make things more dramatic or threatening. Even if they are seized at the scene, it doesnt mean they were also used.

Gordon Fink
May 6, 2003, 05:02 PM
The 1934 National Firearms Act was nothing more than a bandaid on the sucking chest wound of Prohibition, and I doubt that it played as big a part in the reduction of crime than the decriminalization of certain intoxicants, which resulted in kicking the huge profit margin out of the black-market booze biz.

Much as the 1994 “assault”-weapons ban was a sorry attempt to treat a symptom of the “war on drugs.”

Decriminalization of certain recreational intoxicants will go much farther to reducing violence in our society than will fruitlessly attempting to prohibit the tools used to commit violence.

~G. Fink

Hkmp5sd
May 6, 2003, 07:13 PM
Back in the late '80s, when the semi-automatic assault weapons first came on the radar scope, the following data was accumulated:

In 1988, the DEA's reports listed a total of 5,304 weapons seized at time of arrests made during drug raids. Of those, 215 were fully automatic (none legally registered). During 1989, there 2,837 seized, of which 98 were full automatics (none legally registered).

At this time (1989), the democrats were seeking a reason to ban the so-called semi-auto AWs and asked for ATF input. ATF Director Stephen E. Higgins testified that <1% of all firearms used in crimes could be considered "assault weapons" based on the proposed law's definition.

In response to the DeConini AW ban legislation, the State of Florida commissioned a panel to determine if the weapons listed actually presented a greater use in crimes. They sought all guns considered assault weapons AND all guns banned from importation by ATF in 1989.

If you recall, this ban proposal claimed that "semi-automatic assault weapons" were 20 TIMES more likely to be used in crimes.

It found that during 1989, out of 7,552 firearms used in crimes in Florida, 17 would fall on either of the banned lists. That comes to 0.225%.

The study also covered a 4 year period and found that out of 26,737 firearms related crimes in Florida, there were the following number of semi-automatic "assault weapons" used:

(Semi-Automatic Versions ONLY)

AK-47 = 0

MAC 10/11 = 7

Uzi = 10

Mini-14 = 10

AR-15 = 7

Which comes to 0.1% of all guns used in crimes in the State of Florida from 1986-1989.

Of the 43 types of firearms listed in the 1989 Importation ban, only 3 types had been used in crime in the State of Florida from 1986-1989.

Frohickey
May 6, 2003, 07:40 PM
in 2001...
in April, Edward Lutes, gunned down 5 of his neighbors, and also wounded his police chief. Edward Lutes used the department issued full-auto MP5 in the crime.

and they say only cops should have guns.:rolleyes:

blades67
May 6, 2003, 09:31 PM
The AW ban was never about "public safety" it was about erosion of the 2nd Amendment.:barf:

If you enjoyed reading about "Interesting automatic weapons question" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!