Powder Siftin


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Manyirons
August 7, 2006, 12:35 AM
Tha BOSS tole me some people sifts their powder ta get better burnin an less deviation fer target shootin, and some does er jus ta get tha finer stuff out fer pan primin staid a buyin 4F er Null B.

He started siftin H777 witha precision stainless screens thinkin tha finer powder'd burn faster an ya could get more inna chamber fer them guns aint gotta lotta room.

He did hisself some testin taday, three guns, two Rugers, one 7 1/2" tha other 5 1/2" an a Remmie Pietta target gun he worked over that turned out REAL well, shootin aroun 4" at 82 yards fromma machine rest.

ANYWHO, hes usin a chamber fulla powder, right to tha top, a 1/8" BigIron/Gatofeo lube wad, an a cast .460 round ball.

Tha Ruger 7 1/2" clocked OVER 1600 FEET! and tha SLOWEST gun, tha 5 1/2 Ruger did itself JUS OVER 1400 FEET!

Think tha BOSS got somethin goin here!

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stevelyn
August 7, 2006, 09:48 AM
Those are some pretty impressive numbers out those short barrels.:what:
That accuracy ain't too shabby either.

Manyirons
August 7, 2006, 10:38 AM
Yup!

That Remmie turned out REAL good. Lotta work went in er, BOSS dont do things halfway.

Heresa link.

http://www.bigironbarrels.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=93

An.

http://www.bigironbarrels.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79

He WAS surprised by tha numbers! Pulled out another chrono calibrated that un an shot some more jus bein CERTAIN.

frosty
August 7, 2006, 09:47 PM
Manyirons, When you sift the powders, is it actually a finer granulation than say ffffg? :evil:

4v50 Gary
August 7, 2006, 09:57 PM
Smaller grain, greater surface area, better combustion with higher pressure and higher velocity and higher energy. A Ruger can take a lot of abuse (that this idjit is still alive may be attributed to the wisdom of Bill Ruger's engineers who over-engineered the Old Army for idjits like me :uhoh: ) but can your repro? Be careful in tinkering and while it may work in some guns, it may not work in others. Kabooms are to be read about in gunrags & websites and not personally experienced. :scrutiny:

Manyirons
August 7, 2006, 10:27 PM
Thas why i DONT do nothin but tha cleanin, fetchin and carryin here! I knows i aint bright so i llets tha talent do what he got tha talent an brains fer.

FROSTY! i DONT do tha siftin!!! Thas tha MANNS job. He got all tha pressure testin gear and all tha stuff an KNOW HOW fer this.

Thas another reason whys they aint no mesh sizes bein writtin here an no loads er anythin else.

Keepin it in tha hands offa expert.

ribbonstone
August 7, 2006, 11:38 PM
HAve a shooting buddy who would sift and he swore it made a differnce in his flintlock....I nver could find any difference in my guns, but over the years have thought about it. IF there was a difference, am inclined to believe it might be becasue he used the fine grained stuff for the pan rather than becasue of the main charge.

Manyirons
August 7, 2006, 11:42 PM
Lotsa people say it DOES. This AINT black powder tha BOSS is usin, he's goin fer power an pressure. H777,

frosty
August 8, 2006, 11:35 PM
Manyirons, I'm not sift'n, I'm just curious.:evil:

Gewehr98
August 9, 2006, 11:46 AM
I've been running Goex Cartridge Grade in my Sharps for a while, and they sift it to remove the "fines", leaving uniformly-sized granules to improve consistency from shot-to-shot, and also to reduce fouling. The stuff's slightly more expensive than standard FFg or FFFg, but I have to agree that consistency and bore cleanliness are indeed better.

Likewise, I'd be leery of running nothing but "fines" in a BP revolver that wasn't one of those stout Ruger Old Army models. You're talking a steep pressure curve there, even if it is H777. :what:

Manyirons
August 9, 2006, 12:02 PM
Yup. Actual fact he's runnin these in stainless OLD ARMIES AN A stainless Pietta Remmie. Seems tha STAINLESS models is WAY ahead a the regular scrap iron Uberti er Piettas usin.

Got one set up with strain gage now fer pressure testin, gonna run a whole bunch between KIK Schutzie an Swiss in reglar black an REGULAR H777 and Pyrodex, then tha middles grade of FINE siftin jus ta see whats what.

So far he's got moren 400 rounds a FINE fired, an aint no problem. AINT sayin its yer ever day diet, its seein if ya can have some huntin loads fer big game or defense that'll git er done.

Its fer them guys that cant be buyin a .50 er .58 conversion, its why he made tha LONG cylinder fer .44 Remmies an such, lower cost fer tha customers.

An ifin ya got tha right gun, this'll be even lower cost. Like he says, he's here ta HELP customers.

bigbore442001
August 9, 2006, 11:37 PM
I hope all goes well in the testing. It sounds like this would make the ROA a more feasible hunting gun or at least a back up for such.

Manyirons
August 10, 2006, 01:04 AM
So far so good, tha numbers today testin aint as awful as spected! Hes gonna do a BUNCH more afor he says its alright, but lookin good!

Manyirons
August 11, 2006, 02:13 PM
Well hes done testin fer a spell, numbers look good but he says ONLY on Rugers an Ubies er Peties in STAINLESS Remmie clones.

Theys higher en youd want in somethin that aint well built an ya might wanta have aftermarket tubes, BUT nothin that aint safe.

bigbore442001
March 28, 2007, 10:43 AM
I have noted that the big iron site is down. I was planning to do some of this H777 sifting for my Ruger Old Army as well as my Kahnke single shot pistol.

Could you tell me what mesh screens would be best for this purpose?

arcticap
March 29, 2007, 03:30 AM
Here's a set of 2 screens and a drum tumbling device that some BP cartridge shooters use for competition:

http://www.cal-graf.com/screen.html

Someone who used it stated that: "IIRC 3F should be somewhere around 1/32 nominal grain size. That's what it looks like the CalGraf screen uses anyway."

The directions for this set up recommends that 1/4 pound of black powder be screened in the drum at one time, and it's very labor intensive, taking an estimated 3500 revolutions to fully screen 1/4 pound of powder.

A brush was needed to clean the screens of powder after turning it in the drum.

Posted results from a powder sifting test of different brands of BP:

SWISS powder yielded 11.3 oz of 3F and 4.0 oz of 4F & Fines. (11.3+4.0+1 = 16.3oz)

Goex Express yielded 9.3 oz of 3F, 7.3 oz of 4F/ Fines. (9.3+7.3+1 = 17.5oz !!!)

KIK yielded 7.3 oz 3F, 9.0 oz 4F/Fines (7.3+9.0+1 = 17.3oz !!!)

Goex (Red can) yielded 4.9 oz 3F and 10.7 oz 4F/Fines !!! (4.9+10.7+1 = 16.6oz)

Graf/Schutzen: 7.7 oz 3F, 8.0 oz 4F/Fines (7.7+8+1=16.7)


http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/193126/post/280935/hl/%22The+great+powder+test%22/#280935

bigbore442001
March 29, 2007, 12:58 PM
I was wondering if such a device would increase the power in a given load. If I used unsifted H777 in a firearm and compared it to sifted H777, would there be a difference in velocity over a chronograph ?

arcticap
March 29, 2007, 02:53 PM
If it did, would the higher velocity shoot more accurately? :)

Duncaninfrance
March 29, 2007, 03:03 PM
Some interesting info in this thread but don't forget - it is not usually the bigger loads that shoot the best - they just sound and look more fun at the muzzle end! :D

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