Value of S&W K22 Pre-17 5-Screw?


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Radjxf
August 7, 2006, 02:31 PM
Been looking for a good shooter grade model 17. Locally found a pre-17 5-screw, magna grips with diamond over screw, original "upswept" hammer, etc. Dates to 1948 production. Mechanically very good, cosmetically has typical muzzle wear, some wear on cylinder, a few light scratches, etc. Blueing overall fairly dull. Dealer is asking $425 cash. About right or too high?
Guess this has C&R status? I have my C&R license, maybe that could help barter the price down since it could be an easier transfer for the dealer? Thanks

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ugaarguy
August 7, 2006, 02:38 PM
I paid $400 for one in similar condition a few weeks ago, and was quite happy with the price. $425 for a 1948 production 5 screw is good.

HSMITH
August 7, 2006, 05:01 PM
You won't find one much cheaper from anyone that knows what they have.....

XavierBreath
August 7, 2006, 08:31 PM
$425 is a good price.

It is only after purchasing and shooting a K-22 that the new K-22 owner learns the revolver is worth much more than what they sell for.

P95Carry
August 7, 2006, 08:32 PM
Probably about right - I agree with ''H''.

Mine dates to 1950 and I would look for min $400 if selling (which I ain't!).

http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/cb_gun2/pre_k22_02_s.jpg

Old Fuff
August 7, 2006, 10:06 PM
Blueing overall fairly dull.

At the time S&W was using a satin/lighter color blue then they did later. The "dull" blue is likely original.







Edit to correct typo.

Standing Wolf
August 7, 2006, 10:07 PM
I paid $350 for mine several years ago. Considering it took me two decades to find it, I'd have been willing to pay more.

deadin
August 7, 2006, 11:23 PM
I saw a really minty 1950 edition go for $550.00 this last weekend. I thought that was a pretty good deal.

Dean

Radjxf
August 8, 2006, 08:53 AM
Thanks for the tip Old Fuff. Looks like most of the old 5-screws were a more satin blue, while the later 4-screw guns had a prettier polished blue. Really think I should quit talking about it and go get it before someone else does!:eek:

Hammerdown
August 8, 2006, 09:48 AM
It is only after purchasing and shooting a K-22 that the new K-22 owner learns the revolver is worth much more than what they sell for



Hello
I agree with our Wise Moderator."XavierBreath" A passed up K-22 is another one, that gets stashed deep into another K-22 Lover's collection. I "WISH" I had Kept all the one's I swapped off over the years, Like I am sure many of us have as well, but have been keeping the Interesting ones{To Me} since they seemed to dry up in the last 20 Years or so. There is far more changes and differences in the K-22 Line than most of us have time or money to own, but it sure makes the hunting for that rare model Fun !The Bluing on the one you speak of, is typical as "Old Fluff" responded, and the factory called it Matte like we see on the S&W model 28 Highway Patrolman. I have heard that back when this Matte finish was Popular Colt, {See The .22 Official Police Bluing Circa 1948 Below} was in a fierce sales war with Smith & Wesson, and the K-22 Finishes were eventually changed to the High Polished finish seen on Later dash series models, after the Pythons & Diamond back's started Growing in sales. I do not know when this Finish Change actually took place, but Oddly enough, The Pre-War Outdoorsman I have has the most deepest Bluing I have ever seen on any S&W revolver.It also was made when the Factory work's hand assembled and fitted the part's One at a Time. A Late 1950's model 18 I have has the Higher blued finish, so it would be my guess S&W went back to the high polished bluing on the K-22 Line sometime in the Mid to late 50's. Here is some examples I have managed to Keep through the years to inspire your K-22 purchase, and for your viewing pleasure. I know once you buy, shoot and learn to appreciate the fine fit and finish of any K-22, You will not be able to stop at Just one.;) Best regards, Hammerdown
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/SWK-22Nickelrevolver005.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/SWK-22Nickelrevolver007.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF5946-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF5945-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF6664.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF6661.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF6773.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF6771.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF6477.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF6480.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF6755.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF6352.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF6373.jpg

Mannlicher
August 8, 2006, 05:45 PM
around North Florida, I have seen them going in gun shops for between $350 and $400. Helps to know the shop owner. :)

XavierBreath
August 8, 2006, 06:15 PM
Ah heck, I guess I'll post a pic or two, too. :o

http://www.bayourovers.com/SmithWessonModel17-3withtargets.jpg

I looked for years before I finally found a K-22 in my price range. I paid $199 for this Model 17-3. That's right, in American dollars too. It took me over eight years of searching pawn shops and gun shows to come across this one. I bought it, I shot it, and I saw that I had wasted eight years I could have been shootin' instead of wishin'.

There's a gun show this weekend. If I see a decent .22LR S&W revolver for under $500, I'm taking it home.

http://www.bayourovers.com/SmithWessonModel17-3.jpg

Hammerdown
August 8, 2006, 08:13 PM
If I see a decent .22LR S&W revolver for under $500, I'm taking it home.

AMEN..Very Sound advice. Only One of the Above shown, cost me more than that figure, but it was WELL worth it and I had Never seen another like it in original shape, so it was maybe a chance of a lifetime, and I shoot it all the time, with NO regrets other than I waited WAY too Long in buying it. No safe queens in my safe.;) Hammerdown

Radjxf
August 10, 2006, 01:48 PM
Thanks for all of the advice guys. I ended up trading a very well-worn Sig P228 for a 1953 production K22 Masterpiece 5-Screw with target type grips. First firearm purchased on my C&R license. Mechanically very good, bluing not quite as worn as the '48 I was looking at (same store). Not sure if the target grips are original to the gun, they look about as old as the revolver! Now I need a set of stag magnas and a T-grip and I'll be all set. I'll try to get a pic soon.

ugaarguy
August 10, 2006, 02:47 PM
Not sure if the target grips are original to the gun, they look about as old as the revolver!

Very Carefully remove them and look on the inside. S&W numbered them to match the gun, usually on the inner right grip panel. That will tell you if they're original or not.

depicts
August 10, 2006, 05:28 PM
Hammerdown, I love that Bull Barrel 5" Mod 17. That's got to be the sweetest handling gun you could find. If it balances any better than a Bull Barrel Mod 10, I just have to start looking for one. I'll bet that 5" is hard to come by.

Thanks for sharing those nice pix.

Hammerdown
August 10, 2006, 05:59 PM
Not sure if the target grips are original to the gun, they look about as old as the revolver!


Hello
I have heard S&W Serial numbered VERY FEW Target grips that left the factory, since they have been first offered from S&W around 1952. If we are speaking of the smaller magna checkered or smooth service grips, Yes, You will find some with the serial number of the gun stamped into the right grip panel and this was seen from the Mid 30''s to sometime in the Late 60's and later changed to a green dot on Both Panels, and I am not certain when this changed to the standard green dot, but S&W had a standard size frame established by the Late 60's so serial number's were not needed to get the frame and grip's that they were fitted for back together. The very Early Magnas from 1910 to the Early 30's had the serial number's hand Penciled on right grip panel as well, and this was done to make certain the same frame and grips got back together through final production before being shipped, to insure a Good fit as the Multi fit frames had not been established yet, and most grips needed to be fitted as some frames actually varied in size dimensions. I have asked Mr Jinks this very question about Target Grip's, and his reply being that Most Target grip's were added on at the factory with a customer's request, or at a later time after they left the factory. Only way to be sure is letter the revolver in question. My 1958 model 18 K-22 HAS The original factory unmolested target grip's on it, as the owner told me he bought it new, and they were on it when it came from S&W in 1958. From what I have heard the FEW Target grip's that S&W did stamp serial number's into were mostly done to more elaborate higher priced custom ordered revolves like the model 29's and the Registered magnums along with Very few Pre-27's that came after them.I have read, that a Mr. Ed Mcgivern had special Target grip's and they were numbered along with the Optional Walter Roper Target grips on some of his, but we must remember his were special ordered revolver's not simple production guns. The grip's shown are 1958 Vintage, and as I said you see they are not numbered in any way. I do Know that in the Mid 70's S&W used a rubber date stamp to Date their target grip's, but again, these were pulled from assembly part's bin's so they may not match the revolver as far as when it was made or shipped, as they were selcted by Random and not for any special or purpose application. Another thing that comes up often, is the use of washers that holds the factory S&W medallions in place. The early ones had The S&W name and trademark stamped into them. Then they changed to the Black style shown. After this the washers were changed to the modern silver style, and eventually NO washers were used on the Last series of Factory target grips, instead they simply pushed the medallion stud though, and placed a dab of silicone on it to hold it in place.If we look close at the Early checkering mainly Prewar era, that was a very fine line done at about 21-23 Lines per inch, hand done. as time went on, Machines were used, and the checkering lines broadened and became less, making the checkering very course as well, ending up at about 12-14 Lines per inch and machine done. I hope this helps Hammerdown.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF5931-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF5934.jpg

Hammerdown
August 10, 2006, 06:08 PM
Hammerdown, I love that Bull Barrel 5" Mod 17.

Hello Depicts
Thank you Sir,
It look's like a 5" barrel but it is a 4" barrel. It is a tough model to find, as it was a Three year run of them, then they added a Full Lug under the barrel, and changed the series to a 17-6.I had never seen one, so when this came up N.I.B. I was all over it. It shoots very well, and makes good company, for my Bull Barrel Dayton Sport's revolver one of 2038 made.This .38 Special revolver is the Only model 14 that ever had a factory Bull barrel, and Baughman quick draw front sight. These option's were more common on the model 15's but other than the production figure stated above never made or offered again on any model 14. This is one shown from 1966, with it's original finish & Grip's.I swapped a model 10-7 for it to the Son of the man that ordered it New back in 1966. Hammerdown

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF6259.jpg

Radjxf
August 10, 2006, 08:07 PM
Man, I hate to post this after Hammerdown's pics, but here it is! Pardon my extremely poor photography skills.
http://img15.imgspot.com/u/06/221/19/Img02591155254121.JPG

Hammerdown
August 10, 2006, 08:31 PM
Hello Radjfx
That is a Nice K-22 revolver you have there.Not One thing wrong with that one at all.;) A suggestion for a nice clear picture would be TRY some outside Pictures. Sun Plays the devil, but over cast sky's are super. I like the Early morning time or just before sundown for pictures. Your camera may also have a close up Feature, Mine does and this will clear up a picture a lot. Keep working on the Pictures, it will get better with time, and I would be Honored to add that K-22 to my Batch of K-22's, any time you Tire of it.;) I Also Noticed that THOSE Target grip's you have there are VERY ealry ones. More than likely the FIRST year as they do not have the dished football section like the ones I have here on the cylinder swing side. They are trully RARE... If you look at the Lower front where the two half's meet, You will see the Real old one's like this are ROUNDER in the front than the later Target grips. Mine are the second Year issue as shown.These Older First issue ones also come straight to the trigger guard fit tight there and have a small Bevel. The later ones do NOT do this.
Hammerdown
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/hammerdown-7/DSCF6243.jpg

NEtracker
August 21, 2006, 02:12 PM
There's a local dealer who has a 5 screw K-22 that's worn a bit more than Radjxf's K-22 from what I can see from that picture.
The one I'm looking at has more scratches, and barrel bluing wear, plus the cylinder wear is greater. This dealer wants $450. I told him I was looking for a shooter 17, but this is what he has now. I still have him looking for a lower priced 17 (perhaps in better condition), but I've been thinkin' about that 5 screw K-22.....
$450 may be a bit high for the wear on this piece. He has priced it accordingly because he knows it's a 5 screw, and it has the original grips.

Hammerdown
August 21, 2006, 03:25 PM
$450 may be a bit high for the wear on this piece. He has priced it accordingly because he knows it's a 5 screw, and it has the original grips

Hello NETracker
I would dare say he is real proud of this 5 screw revolver at the price it is at. I have 5 screw revolver's and to me they do not exhibit any smoother actions than the newer 4 and 3 screw models. If Smooth actions are your intent, then get an Outdoorsman K-22 First issue for a few Buck's More, as they were hand assembled and fitted. After the war, all K-22s were mass produced. A price that high on a 5 screw gun, should be showing better condition, and Given it is a shooter grade by what you indicated, it should be more around the $350.00 average. Now, if he had the original box, paperwork and Knurled screw driver that was sent with that 5 screw, that would be a different story. Once they get fired and used, they can no longer be considered a collectors desirable high price item, they are simply a used revolver. Grip's numbered to that gun May up the price a bit, but most shooter's that I know, replace the small Magna grip's with full size targets any ways. S&W did not make a practice of stamping any of the larger target style diamond grips with gun's serial number, as they were either customer add ON's or ordered that way. They did stamp serial number's on certain High grade revolver's but most 17's did not see this. I have read where some model 27s and Registered Magnums did have Target grips stamped with serial number's but again, this is a different class of revolvers. Of course, This is Just my opinion, and I am certain other's will disagree, but There are Plenty of K-22 revolver's out there to be had used for a lot less. Hammerdown

NEtracker
August 21, 2006, 04:03 PM
Thanks Hammerdown. I'm feelin' a little better about passing on that one.
When I find the right K-22/Model 17, it will be my 5th Smith revolver
(I like 'em!). Don't have one (S&W) in .22LR.

Hammerdown
August 21, 2006, 04:19 PM
Hello NETracker
No Problem, Glad I could be of help to you. ;) The price he wanted for a well used model 17 K-22 is what I just paid {SHIPPED IN HAND} for a model 17-5 4" Bull Barrel K-22 that was only made a couple of years. :D This gun was New In Box, with all the paperwork and correct tools and worth that to me, due to it's low production, Plus I did Not have nor had I ever seen any K-22 Model 17 revolver's with a 4" barrel or Baughman sights like the model 17-5 has. This Barrel and Baughman sight combination was the standard for the Model 18 Combat masterpiece, which I have Two of and even they did not have the Bull Barrel.There are Tons of K-22s out there, be patient one will come along at a much better price or in Better condition.:) Regards, Hammerdown

XavierBreath
August 21, 2006, 04:57 PM
I did find a K-22 at the gunshow........ It was a Model 17-4 (http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2006/08/smith-wesson-model-17-4.html) with an eight and 3/8 inch barrel. I took it home for $400. I'm still looking for that pre-war 5 screw K-22 for under $500, but until I find it, I guess this one will have to do.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=43754&stc=1&d=1156193711

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=43753&stc=1&d=1156193700

Hammerdown
August 21, 2006, 07:59 PM
I'm still looking for that pre-war 5 screw K-22 for under $500.00

Hello
Aren't we all? Sometimes all the different changes can be confusing that transpired on the K-22's but here are some that make collecting and identifying a little easier.I hope this helps NEtracker, in his hunt for a good K-22 masterpiece as well. The Prewar 5 screw Model only made in 1940 Was the Second series of the K-22 Masterpiece model. This can range upwards of $2500.00 if found since they only made 1,067 revolver's in the second series, and all production was halted for the War effort on December 12, 1940, just Shy of a Year after it was released. This is the Rarest 5 screw K-22 Revolver to find, and can be identified easily by it's Fully round barrel,{Similar to The Older Outdoorsman model} and New Larger Micro-Click rear sights. The Post war K-22s were called the Third series and Now had the Ribbed barrel rather then the Older fully round tapered barrels of the Two previous K-22 series making the Third series weigh slightly more what it's other masterpiece series revolver's did from 1940 & the K-32 & K-38. The Early Post War models had Six Ribs on top of the barrel, along with the grip frame back strap and later it was changed to Ten. This Third series 5 Screw revolver is the Most common, being highly produced over it's Earlier variations and was released December 13, 1946. Along with this New Third post War model changes came the addition of the K-Letter in front of the serial numbers in 1946, which makes a Post war 5 screw easy to distinguish from it's Earlier models by the use of this K-Letter, along with the Ribbed barrel, Micro-Click sights and anti Backlash Target stop that was added as well, after the First series. In December 7.1955 The first Major design change we saw was the dropping of a side plate screw and all later models were called a 4 screw revolver. In 1957 we saw the addition of model numbers appear in the crane are and now instead of stamping numbers in this location it clearly showed what model it was as simply 17. All previous K-22s are commonly called Pre-17s as well before this design change. In 1958 was saw the addition of the 8-3/8" Barrel like member XavierBreath shows a fine example of. In 1959 we saw the first Dash series design change, when S&W changed the extractor rod threads from left hand threads to the now popular Right hand thread. This change occurred as some shooters were complaining that the extractor rods were shooting loose from recoil and binding actions on all S&W models, and now they called the K-22 a 17-1 series. In 1961 we saw the trigger cylinder stop spring screw removed, that was easily seen in front of the trigger guard. This design change was now called the 17-2 series and commonly now called the 3 screw series. In 1967 another design change occurred, that of being the relocation of the rear sight leaf screw, and in 1968 the dropping of the Famous Diamond center found on all previous K-22 grips was dropped, and this design change is called the 17-3 series. In 1977 we saw the next design change where S&W moved the gas ring from the yoke to the cylinder. In 1982 we saw the Pinned barrel dropped, and in 1986 They introduced the 4" heavy barrel like the one shown, as this replaced the model 18 and was the Only Model 17 to ever have a 4" barrel through the whole model 17 series. This design change is called the 17-4. The last design change for the Non underlug Barrel Model 17 Masterpiece series came in 1988. This series was called the 17-5 series and in 1988 a new Yoke retention package and radius stud were added. In 1989 The Model 17 Non Underlug Barrel K-22 was discontinued for the model 17-6 series, and we had seen the last of the Non Underlug barrels. I hope this help's in finding a K-22 that would suite you, as there are many to choose from in the K-22 Masterpiece line. I have yet to add an underlug barrel model 17 as I like the feel and balance of it's earlier models, but hope to find a 4" model someday. ;) Hammerdown

Radjxf
August 23, 2006, 10:55 PM
Here's a slightly better pic with it's new elk stags and a Tyler-T:
http://onfinite.com/libraries/974490/album/540/405/afc.jpg
http://onfinite.com/libraries/974491/album/540/405/afc.jpg

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