Good quality, low cost skeet over under?


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Glockster35
August 7, 2006, 02:56 PM
Hi all,

I watched a few guys shooting skeet the other day, and while I have some experience with skeet shooting, I am wanting to give it a try.

I am now living in Goldsboro North Carolina and I haven't found a suitable rifle or pistol range locally, and I enjoy firearms events, so I really want to try something new.

I am looking for somethign that I can use to get me started in the sport, it doesn't have to be high quality, but needs to be suitable for a beginner starting out in the sport.

The guys at the range were all shooting with over under shotguns, but I don't knwo what brand or model numbers. I do think they were of high quality, because these guys were top class shooters in the region. One was a top military shotgunner, and the other was the top senior shooter in NC. There was also a young guy that had only started the sport 2 months ago. It was very impressive to watch all of them.

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sabre452
August 7, 2006, 03:08 PM
I bought a Baikal 20 Gauge O/U for my son that has been a terrific gun for Skeet, Trap and Clays. I have also heard good comments on the huglu which I believe CZ-USA now sells. The Baikal cost me about 400.00 and came with a soft case, 4 choke tubes and a cleaning kit.

RNB65
August 7, 2006, 03:20 PM
Greetings! Welcome to Seymour Johnson! I have to warn you that Goldsboro is the most boring city in America. I was born and raised in the Goldsboro area but left it behind a long time ago.

I'm not aware of any organized shooting facilities near Goldsboro. There used to be a sporting clays course just south of town, but it closed down some years ago. Lots of hunting in the area, but not much organized clay shooting.

Most any type of shotgun with an open choke and barrel in the 26"-28" range can be used for skeet shooting. Rem 870 pump, Rem 1100 semi, or Ruger Red Label O/U's are all good basic skeet guns. Remington makes some O/U's, but I don't know anything about them.

There are some cheap O/U's on the market today (Stoegers, CZ's, Charles Daly's) that are made in Europe, but the quality is very hit and miss. You get what you pay for and they are really cheap guns. My advice is to avoid the really cheap guns and get one with a good reputation for quality.

frank c
August 7, 2006, 03:56 PM
I disagree on the CZ over and unders being of cheap quality.I recently bought a CZ woodcock O/U for around $900 bucks.The fit and finish on this shotgun is excellent.I have shot many rounds threw it,so far it has been flawless.:D

RNB65
August 7, 2006, 04:06 PM
I disagree on the CZ over and unders being of cheap quality

You're right. Now that I think about it, the Huglu CZ's are better than the really cheap ones. I would love to have one of their SxS's in 16ga or 20ga to play with. But I'm not sure if they're up to target shooting use. I've read quite a few messages about CZ shotties breaking after a few thousand rounds.

hossdaniels
August 7, 2006, 05:00 PM
i say get get a 870 while you save up for a decent (beretta,browning,skb) o/u. there are not any shortcuts to a good o/u. besides, everyone needs a 870. some of the cz's franchi's,ruger's work fine, and some dont. anything cheaper than any of those is garbage. dont forget to look for used guns too. an old quality built shottie will serve you better than a new cheap one for the same money.

ArmedBear
August 7, 2006, 05:16 PM
Stoeger O/U's seem to be a LOT better than their price would suggest. I know a few people with them, and they have worked flawlessly in the field and at the range, for a long time. Brazilian, and that no longer is synonymous with junk like it may have been at one time.

Baikal/Spartan guns seem to last, though I've heard bad things about the chokes on some of them, from owners. Replacement choke tubes are available. Incomparably ugly guns, though. Russian. Built like a Soviet tank, styled like a Soviet filing cabinet. For my money, I'd get the Stoeger.

I'd avoid the Mossberg International, though some have had good experiences with it. It's had a lot more problems than the Stoeger. Some may disagree with me here, but so far, no one's commented who has a solid few thousand rounds through one, and those I know who have, have had problems.

CZ and DeHaan ( http://www.dhshotguns.com/ ) Huglu-made guns are nice, but the prices are getting up there. Do check out DeHaan, BTW, if you want a nice Huglu.

Practically speaking, I'd be inclined to say to skip the Turkish guns and get a used Browning Citori if you're thinking about $800+. They're everywhere, parts, stocks, etc. are common, and they're available for a decent price. With shotguns, the ready availability of parts, stocks and service is a great thing. Used SKB's can be nice, but parts availability can be spotty. Beretta guns are always nice, and sometimes can be found for REALLY good deals!

Otherwise, a Remington 1100 LT-20 can be found for well under $500, and it's a GREAT gun if you don't mind picking up your shells and cleaning the thing. Beretta 3901 (relatively new American made 390) is really nice in 20 Gauge, as well, if you want a new gun. Same thing: you have to pick up your shells and clean it.

870s are great, and I highly recommend getting one. But for skeet, two quick shots without distractions are kind of important these days.:)

Hoppy590
August 7, 2006, 05:38 PM
Stoeger condor is a good cheap O/U. im looking into getting one. the local dicks sporting goods offers them for about 300$ every once in a while. with the combo 12 gauge/ 20 gauge for about 450.

The Spartans i have heard only good. little bit more than the stoegers but built solid

the mossberg. the question at hand is reliability and build quality. or so it would seem. in my understanding the REAL problem is a design oversight on the firing pins. if they are in the "fired" position when first assembled and the lever is not push to the left then the pins can be damaged. read up on the problem here

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=199880&highlight=silver+reserve
and here
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=212654&highlight=silver+reserve

ArmedBear
August 7, 2006, 05:46 PM
A few things...

The Stoeger feels a lot like a Citori in the hand, to me. That's a big point over the Baikal, which feels more like a club to me (at least the 12; I've never had a chance to play with the 20). I shoot with a guy who bought a .410 Baikal to settle a long-running gentleman's bet; it shot low and to the left. He had to tweak it somehow; I forgot what he did to it. No such troubles reported with the Stoeger. Stoeger does charge more for the SST version, which also has nicer walnut (some examples look like semi-fancy grade, even). Pay the extra for SST if you're going to use it for clay shooting.

Remember also, a shotgun is more like a golf club than it is like a battle rifle. Some of the characteristics that make the Mosin-Nagant a milestone in firearms history are not desirable in a skeet gun. Just MHO.

if they are in the "fired" position when first assembled and the lever is not push to the left then the pins can be damaged

The problems people have had happen after a few thousand rounds. That makes me doubt that the problem is caused by a one-time bump of the pin. Maybe so, but maybe not. I'm not spending my $500 to find out, when I can get a Stoeger, or save the money and get something else altogether.

Remember, in the world of shotgunning, $1500 is a low price for an O/U. Berettas are considered a really good value. Browning Citoris are working guns. SKB's are off-price imports. Non-engraved Rugers are nice field guns. It's important to keep all of that in mind when managing your expectations.:)

marriedguy1
August 7, 2006, 06:10 PM
I recently picked up a Stoeger combo 12/20 gauge O/U. I have not had a chance to shoot it yet, but I could not pass it up. They are a little hard to come by here since bird hunting is very popular. I paid a little over 600 total, but I also bought a case for the gun and a case of clays and a case of ammo.

RKellogg
August 9, 2006, 02:23 AM
I use a Mossburg Silver Reserve . $500 , Walmart . I have about 1000 rounds though it with no problems . I also took 1st place in the skeet shoot with it . It is worth looking at .

ArmedBear
August 9, 2006, 02:10 PM
I have about 1000 rounds though it with no problems

I'd be really interested in hearing how it holds up after 5-10,000. No one seems to be able to say, and your report would be appreciated!

o/u mike
August 9, 2006, 02:54 PM
You might want to look at the CDNN catalog. They had a lot of LX6XX's as I recall. Dick's used to carry the line. I have an LX505SC in 12 gauge that I like a lot.

Ed/Pa
August 13, 2006, 11:17 PM
Our SR has been flawless after 400 rounds. It will take a long time to put 10K shells through it , but I'll keep ya posted as time rolls on. PS this little 20 guage really shines on the skeet range.

Frog48
August 14, 2006, 12:07 AM
Academy sells an O/U by the name of "Yildiz". I had never heard of them before seeing it at Academy, but since then, I've ready that they're pretty good.

I like the Remington SPR/Spartan O/U's, and also the Charles Daly O/U's.

Blacklabman
August 14, 2006, 11:15 AM
I think any O/U shotgun will do right now, so long as you like it, and it fits.

I will say that with cheaper O/U's, you get what you pay for.

I you decide to get serious about Skeet, fire lots of shells every week, shoot local matches and travel to other in-state and out of state Tournaments- then you can look at the higher quality O/U's such as Browning, Beretta, Guerini etc.

Shooter's use these shotguns, because they can handle high volume shooting.
Some like and can deal with inertia tigger(I cannot) like those found Beretta O/U's. Other's favor the mechanical tiggers found on Browining's. Its a personal taste. As far a durablity goes. I have by my records, 11k rounds through my 525 Gold SC.

One day, you might even look at the P and K guns.

A lot of shooter's, are now going to gas operated semi-auto's such as the Browning Gold, and Beretta 391.
These are very viable, cheaper, high quality options.

oletymer
August 14, 2006, 12:29 PM
Blacklabman, your 525 has inertia triggers just for your information. The only current Browning o/u with mechanical triggers is the Cynergy.

Blacklabman
August 14, 2006, 01:54 PM
oletymer, Just for your information.
Yes, I was incorrect on Browing Citoris. I do admit that. My 525 does have mechanical triggers. Conversion was by Coles. Done at the same time, another club member send in his 687 SP for conversion.

richardschennberg
August 14, 2006, 01:55 PM
1. Make sure the gun fits you. Stock fitting is an extra expense you don't need.
2. Franchi makes a Sporting S. L. in 12 and 20 gauge. It has mechanical triggers, so you could tube the 12 for sub-gauges in the future without any action work. Unless you happen upon a used one with a Skeet choke, the factory included chokes are Cylinder, Improved Cylinder, Modified, Improved Modified, and Full. So plan on buying a Skeet choke or two unless you prefer shooting Skeet with Cylinder and Improved Cylinder.
Richard
Schennberg.com (http://www.schennberg.com)

ArmedBear
August 14, 2006, 04:46 PM
10,000 rounds is actually not that many.

A casual but frequent shooter will shoot that in a year or two.

A serious competitor might shoot that in a month.

I shoot an old BT-99 with hundreds of thousands of rounds through it over 20 years of use. I'm at least the third owner. It's had a little repair work done on it, but nothing that required more than a part or two from Numrich or somesuch, for a few bucks and a few minutes' work. Some parts for off-brand guns -- and the Mossberg SR -- are unavailable. That's a real bummer.

The BT-99 is probably the cheapest legitimate break-action trap gun you can buy. Remingtons offerings like the 870 CT are cheaper, but excellent guns. They're just not break-actions, which are more expensive to build, or at least to build so they won't fall apart.

The cheapest trap gun is good for hundreds of thousands of rounds, with the occasional replacement of a worn-out firing pin. That's the standard in the shotgun world. The Citori is a similar design, and equally durable.

If you don't shoot the gun that much, you can always sell it to someone who does, if you take decent care of it, at a good price (for the seller).

You get what you pay for.

For $700-1000, you can get a good semiauto, new. Half that for quality used, with significant signs of use.

For $1500-2000, you can get a good O/U, new. Half that for quality used, with significant signs of use. More for used, but in top condition.

Again, the only O/U that I have held in my hand that was under $1000 new and had thousands of rounds through it was the Stoeger. I know two guys with the Mossberg SR's and a few thousand rounds. Both broke. I know a couple people with Baikals (now Spartans). They didn't break, but had other issues like shooting WAY off POA, or blowing out chokes.

Take that for what it is.

Sometimes, you can actually get a good "deal." But that requires you to put your emotions aside, forget what you wish were true, and try to get the real scoop. Otherwise, just go get a gun that's a known quantity, has readily available parts, etc. Buying an American-made Remington, a Brownchesterstal, Beretta, or Ruger simply hasn't left as many people with buyer's remorse, or seller's, when they sell it, as many other guns, especially from importers. SKB is the gun you may not have heard of, but should check out. And Stoeger O/Us have appeared to be good, solid guns, for the price.

My apology to any brand I may have missed. Please add to the list!

I do not wish to give offense, but for the sake of a would-be buyer, unless you or someone you know has at LEAST 10K rounds through a gun, you really don't know if it's a durable gun. 10K is nothing, to a decent shotgun.

DWARREN123
August 14, 2006, 05:14 PM
I have a CZ Woodcock Deluxe in 20ga that is just wonderful. Had one in 12ga that I could not hit anything with but the 20ga is accurate, accuracy or lack there of was due to weight, barrel length and me. The 20ga fits me so very well and the recoil is low. Came with 5 different choke tubes and is built on a true 20ga frame.
Damn fine gun.

GRP
August 19, 2006, 08:09 AM
Shotguns are dynamic, they need to be balanced, have pointability and shoot where you look. While I don't have any experience with the economy guns the general observation of most shooter I know is, Beretta, Browning and SKB for moderatly priced OU's. If you pay a little extra on the front end you'll get it back on resale, plus you'll be shooting something reliable and rugged.

larryw
August 19, 2006, 02:52 PM
I'm halfway through my fourth case of 209 primers since I got my CZ Redhead 12ga in October, which it puts somewhere between 15K and 20K rounds. Not a single problem, the gun points and shoots great and the fit/finish is superb.

crackerjack
August 20, 2006, 02:28 AM
Welcome to NC . The base had a nice shooting range unless something has recently changed.I have never been but have friends that have, suppose to be an outstanding faculity in nash county SW of Rocky Mount. It is said to be state of the art for gunning games and skeet . Four Seasons sporting goods store is located in Goldsboro on Ashe st at Sunrise SC approx. 2 miles from main gate and often has some used Brownings o/u. A good number of Huglus O/U were brought back by the guys/gals at Seymour and occasionally they show up for sale at good prices (military paper). For the money would not have any reservation on Huglu . I have several of the Huglus and have been very satisfied with them. On local range call the Wayne sheriff dept. they have a faculity off Hwy 117S by river if you are active SP or LE you may can work something out?
Hope it helps

classic095
January 16, 2008, 11:27 AM
Mossberg Silver Reserve, famous for breaking firing pins,, I have fixed 4 of em in the past two weeks. Break a firing pin be prepaired to wait 3 months for replacements..

Smitty in CT
January 16, 2008, 08:51 PM
Mossberg Silver Reserve, famous for breaking firing pins,, I have fixed 4 of em in the past two weeks. Break a firing pin be prepaired to wait 3 months for replacements..

Supposedly, the company that makes the S/R for Mossberg has fixed the firing pin problem over this past summer, time will tell, though...

Why wait for 3 months to have the firing pins replaced, Mossberg will send you the firing pins for free and you can swap them yourself in about 15 minutes.

If you go for a Silver Reserve, make sure and ask to see the box and get one that was packed after June or July 2007.

bhurlebaus
January 16, 2008, 09:42 PM
I have a 12 gauge spartan that has about 2000 round through it and I am just starting to have problems with it. One of the ejectors is not working reliably with certain types of ammo. For the money I am happy with it and will be happier once I figure out what is wrong with that one ejector.

ArmedBear
January 16, 2008, 10:00 PM
Avoid the cheap guns unless you want a disposable piece (like for hunting in rough conditions when you know you'll trash it before it breaks anyway).

Long after you've forgotten about the few hundred extra bucks, you'll still be shooting your SKB or whatever, when your range buddies have had to pony up for their new shotgun because they got sick of dealing with their original POS that cost them $600 anyway. Then they will spend an additional $1000-1500, and their original purchase will have no resale value to speak of. The one positive thing, I guess, is that they won't feel as reluctant to drop 2 grand on a Beretta, once they have a better idea of why.:)

TANSTAAFL

There's a reason that guys who've been there and done that end up with certain guns and brands. Ask them.

And the fact is, everyone I have known with a 12 Gauge Silver Reserve had a firing pin break after a relatively short time. It was a PITA to get them fixed. Maybe they're fixed now, but I'm not going to spend my money to find out. TANSTAAFL, again.

Pete409
January 17, 2008, 12:29 AM
A "good quality low cost over-under" shotgun is an oxymoron. In O/U shotguns, "good quality" and "low cost" do not go together unless your idea of "low cost" starts at about $1,000.

ArmedBear
January 17, 2008, 09:09 AM
Frankly, the near-$1000 guns I've looked at lately were a bit rough to spend good money on. If I have to save up for a gun, and I do, I decided to save a few hundred more and get something I wouldn't be only half satisfied with.

You hear that, L. C. Marlington?

classic095
January 18, 2008, 11:49 AM
I know they are free,, I called Mosberg International and they didnt have them on hand had to wait 3 months for replacements to come from turkey..But I didnt wait,, I made them out of better material than they do.:uhoh:

dust_101
March 7, 2008, 06:49 PM
Some of you guys were mentioning going with a semi-auto until the O/U savings account can bulk up...

Question is, what do you do about other folks on the line to your right and the ejected shells flying around?

homers
March 7, 2008, 11:46 PM
Are these sub $1000 over/unders really that bad or are they when compared to the higher ended guns?

PJR
March 8, 2008, 08:45 AM
Some of you guys were mentioning going with a semi-auto until the O/U savings account can bulk up...

Question is, what do you do about other folks on the line to your right and the ejected shells flying around?
http://www.tandsshellcatcher.com/

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