1858 remington malfunction


PDA






fordfan485
August 7, 2006, 08:17 PM
Was cleaning it today and noticed when i pull the hammer back the cylinder wont line up correctly and when the hammer is released the clyinder will actually move backwards. Any ideas

If you enjoyed reading about "1858 remington malfunction" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
pohill
August 8, 2006, 09:02 AM
Have you checked the bolt and/or hand?

Duncaninfrance
August 8, 2006, 01:02 PM
Just a flyer but have you got the correct sdjustment on the mainspring screw? I am not SURE if it would cause an alignment problem but just a thought.
Duncan

Cap n Ball
August 8, 2006, 01:24 PM
Sounds like the cylinder stop isn't engaging properly. This could be caused by either a weak spring or perhaps the spring wasn't positioned properly. The spring in question is flat and consists of two prongs. One rests on the bolt and the other on the trigger. It is secured by a small screw and can accidently be put in upside down which will cause what you describe. Remove the trigger guard and check it out. In the diagram below the parts are #12 & 19. Not having the screw fully tightened can also cause the bolt to not engage.

mec
August 8, 2006, 01:52 PM
Sometimes things like this happen when the trigger/bolt spring is just about to break but hasn't done it yet. Spare springs are good things to have.

sundance44s
August 8, 2006, 05:27 PM
First off has this gun been working and shot before ? or did you just buy it this way ? if it was working proper and you took it apart and cleaned it and now have this problem .. check the spring under the trigger guard it could be upside down ..the bow in this spring should point up towards you not down .. common mistake i`ve seen before .. but if you bought this gun and it was like this .. it could be other problems with the timming possible hand too long inpropper lock up bolt fit .. not a big deal .. we just need to know more .

Old Dragoon
August 8, 2006, 05:36 PM
Could also be that there is junk in the mechanism (trigger, bolt hand and hammer area that is causing the bolt to stick. If this happened after you have shot it I's bet there is residuein the guts. complete dis assembly and cleaning is in order. then if it still acts that way could be your hammer spring is a tish too long and scraping against the hammer causing a slight timing problem.

fordfan485
August 9, 2006, 01:16 AM
Yes it has been shot twice before has probably 25 rounds thru it(yea not alot but it was in the high 90s both times i went and called it a day early)

Anyways I took the trigger gaurd off and the spring was positioned correctly , I also noticed even at the half cock the cylinder dosnt line up correctly when rotated. The cylinder stop also isnt engageing all the way, it looks like the spring part number 19 in the picture above is bowed more than it was when i took it apart and cleaned it roughly 3 weeks ago. Also it looks like part number 17 is worn down quite a bit.

Duncaninfrance
August 9, 2006, 04:30 AM
Can't see a part 17 on the drawing, do you mean 12 or 7? Both could affect the timing I think.
Duncan

sundance44s
August 9, 2006, 03:23 PM
Since it was working fine last time it was shot .. you`ve more than likely not put it back together proper ... if the spring #19 in the pic is up side down .. it won`t allow the lock up bolt to meet the groves in the cylinder for lock up .

fordfan485
August 9, 2006, 07:29 PM
The spring was not in upside down, and it worked fine 3 weeks ago after I took it apart and put it back together. It didnt start doing this until after I took the cylinder out the other night to clean it.

Smokin_Gun
August 9, 2006, 08:05 PM
Is the spring screw snugged up all the way? And does the trigger stay back and fiunction ok?
Kinda sounds like the hand spring up off the hammer may have broken...
or weakened. Maybe...but not if it turns the cylinder ok. Could be a bent bolt/trigger spring, try carefully bending it up to the bolt a little at atime.
Maybe the bolt where the ears are, bent out, broke, or maybe not in quite as needed, where it slips past the cam on the hammer.
Don't know but just a couple places to look that I could think of to pass on.
Myself I'd break t all down and look for a cap fragment, bent or broken part.

fordfan485
August 9, 2006, 08:35 PM
Maybe this will help here are some high res images of the parts I just took

https://24.125.150.212/1.jpg
https://24.125.150.212/2.jpg
https://24.125.150.212/3.jpg
https://24.125.150.212/4.jpg
https://24.125.150.212/5.jpg
https://24.125.150.212/6.jpg

Ferret
August 9, 2006, 08:38 PM
To me, and I am no expert, it looks like your spring (pic 1) has bent on the side that should push against the bolt.

Here's an idea. Why dont you fabricate another bolt spring from a paper clip, fit it, and see if it fixes your problem.
I had to make myself another spring when mine broke at a match, and its been in there for a few months now. Works just as well as the original did, so i don't see a reason to replace it at the moment.

Take a paper clip and straighten it. Now bend it around the original screw that holds your bolt spring in, so that its an elongated U. Then just trim it so size so that the 'arms' are as long as the ones on your original spring.
When you fit it, you will have to play around with it a little (like 2 mins) until it is bent enough to work on both the trigger and the bolt.

mec
August 9, 2006, 09:37 PM
those pictures eliminate any further guesses I might make. all look fine from here.

sundance44s
August 10, 2006, 02:17 AM
The parts look good ..can only guess from here maybe an over tight screw in the works ??????? It`s nice to have a pair when working out these little problems ... have you tried takeing the cylinder out and cocking the hammer and watching the movement of the parts ..hand and lock up bolt.

Smokin_Gun
August 10, 2006, 05:42 AM
FordFan, .jpeg #2 Bring the bolt spring up even with the trigger spring and see what you get. I always drop the bolt spring some so it don't hit the cylinder so hard, but I don't drop it as much as it looks in the picture...I'll bet it helps. use your fingers so you don't score the spring, and break.
Let me know...

fordfan485
August 14, 2006, 09:42 PM
while putting the pistol back together , i noticed that the bolt stop comes all the way up when the hammer is down, and then at half cock is all the way down like its supposed to, but at full cock the stop is only about half way up not quite enough to stop the cylinder. Can someone else verify that it is or isnt supposed to do this?

Smokin_Gun
August 15, 2006, 02:33 AM
It should be the same when the hammer is down or at full cock. Either the ears or an ear of the bolt to the bolt cam on the hammer isn't sitting right or slipping past the cam. Or spring adjustment on the bolt half ain't up enough.
that's all I can think of.

The Sicilian
August 18, 2006, 10:56 PM
Same thing happened to me a few weeks ago. While I was at the range my cylinder stopped rotating so I switched to my other revolver. When I got home I broke down the 1858 and found a smashed cap in the works, between the bolt and the trigger area. I put everything back together and had the same problem as you did. I noticed the bolt wasn't coming back up all of the way just like yours, making the cylinder sloppy and not lock up. I fixed it by fooling around with the hand spring screw. Too tight and the bolt wouldn't rise properly to catch the cylinder so I loosened it up a bit and that solved my problem. Try fooling around with different amounts of torque on the handspring screw. This is what was causing my problem and it sounds like your problems are exactly the same as my problem was.

Good luck,

The Sicilian.

fordfan485
August 20, 2006, 06:45 PM
yep that fixed it, the screw was hardly tight at all

The Sicilian
August 20, 2006, 09:40 PM
Cool!!! I'm glad I could help. I figured that was the problem! :D Let's hope it is a permenant fix. I've shot mine since and it works well, no difference then as before in feeling or accuracy.

The Sicilian.

If you enjoyed reading about "1858 remington malfunction" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!