+P+ Rated


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XD Fan
August 8, 2006, 02:57 AM
I am afraid this is a dumb question, but how does one know if a gun is +P+ rated?

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dzimmerm
August 8, 2006, 03:02 AM
You have to rely on the manufacturer to provide the specifications for thier weapons.

I know that the much maligned HI-POINT handguns are rated at being able to handle +P+ ammo. The only reason I know this is that it says so on the manufacturer's website and I think it mentions in the handguns instruction manual.

Not sure about any others.

dzimmerm

skeeter1
August 8, 2006, 03:25 AM
I queried Smith and Wesson

qa@smith-wesson.com

about using .38Spl +P in my M60-3 and they gave me thumbs up. I didn't ask about +P+, but I would think those would be too much for it.

Practically every manufacturer has a website any more and a link to customer support. Send them a message before you try it.

Freedomv
August 8, 2006, 05:21 AM
I see nothing Dumb about your question. In fact it is a very good question that covers a very serious subject that I had not thought about.

Maybe it will save someones sight or other injuries if not the damage of a handgun, etc.

Vern

ugaarguy
August 8, 2006, 05:52 AM
Sometimes one needs to read between the lines. In our current environment of almost constant litigation many companies will not officially endorse any firearm as +P+ rated for liability reasons.

porterdog
August 8, 2006, 06:22 AM
+1 ugaarguy.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the *reason* behind such a stance, however. The max pressure that standard loads may generate in a test barrel is goverend by SAMMI specs. Ditto +P loadings. There are *no* such standards for +P+ loadings, however, making it very difficult for a company to proof thier weapons to such a loading.

BrokenArrow
August 8, 2006, 01:27 PM
Most guns made today are OK w ammo made to SAAMI and/or CIP standards.

In 9x19, the SAAMI +P and CIP max pressure limit is about the same, 38,500 psi. US M882 NATO 9x19 is loaded to 36,250 psi.

Some mil-spec ammo intended for use in smgs is loaded to higher pressures, and some US LEO +P+ ammo is loaded to over 40,000 psi. Which makes the caution Winchester put on it's +P+ ammo "For Use in Pistols Only" kind of odd.

Some ammo makers had +P+ LE customers sign waivers against claims for any damage that might happen w it's use.

Lupinus
August 8, 2006, 01:33 PM
Sometimes one needs to read between the lines. In our current environment of almost constant litigation many companies will not officially endorse any firearm as +P+ rated for liability reasons.
it's also why most triggers come with a built in lawyer

atlctyslkr
August 8, 2006, 03:53 PM
Probably is if it's a magnum.

shattered00
August 8, 2006, 04:57 PM
*Naive alert*

What is +P+ ammo etc.?

akodo
August 8, 2006, 08:16 PM
ammo has a standard loading pressure. Especially for old stuff, this can actually be pretty low
+P denotes a loading that is designed to generate more pressure than normal, to get a bit better performance.

+p+ or ++P is even more pressure yet.

take a .38 special. It is a very old round, and as you know, 357 magnums are just very high pressure 38 specials, plus lengthened just enough so they cannot fit on older 38 special handguns.

So, if you were to want a bit more power from your 38 special handgun, and had a relatively modern one (not something from 1918) you could buy +p loadings for it

of course, if you had a 357 magnum, you could put regular 38 specials in it, or +p or +p+ or even cook up some ++p++ loadings that almost duplicate 357 performance in a slightly shorter package

Preacherman
August 8, 2006, 09:27 PM
For a good explanation of +P and +P+ ammo, see here (http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellk.htm#+P).

MachIVshooter
August 9, 2006, 12:26 AM
but how does one know if a gun is +P+ rated?

I don't think there is a definite answer to this and most manufacturers will not condone the use of +p+ officially. IMO, if you have a good working knowlegde of firearms you can pretty well decide which ones will take it and which ones shouldn't be tried.

For example, I'll run super hot stuff in my S&W 4506 because it is a well-made, all stainless steel hell-for-stout pistol. In my little Taurus PT145, I stick to standard pressure stuff.

Similarly, I'll pound my Ruger Security-Six .357 with nuclear stuff all day long, but my S&W 19-4 P&R seldom even sees mag loads, usually just .38+p.

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