Shipping firearms between states


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Alex45ACP
August 11, 2006, 08:29 PM
I am moving from FL to NC and need to ship 3 firearms, 2 handguns and 1 shotgun, to myself at my new house in NC. How can I do it and what hoops do I have to jump through?

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Mannlicher
August 11, 2006, 08:31 PM
Normal way is for you to take the guns to your dealer or FFL holder in your location, and have that person ship to a FFL holder in the place you are shipping to. There is usually some fee attached, but no 'hoops' to jump through.

With that few guns involved though, I would just put them in the trunk of the car, and take them with me when I drove up.

Alex45ACP
August 11, 2006, 08:32 PM
If I do that, wouldn't I then have to go thru the background check in NC when I pick them up? And if so, that won't work because I'm not 21, and under the legal age to receive a handgun from an FFL.

Hkmp5sd
August 11, 2006, 08:44 PM
No hoops. You can mail firearms to yourself in any state (per federal law). Just box them up and ship them to the new address. Of course, they do have to be legal at your new place of residence and you must meet any local registration/licensing laws.

Chipperman
August 11, 2006, 08:46 PM
You should not have to do an FFL transfer. They are going from You to You, there is no transfer between individuals.

For Fed law, just follow the shipping guidelines for the carrier you use. Check state and local laws, though.

Glock_10mm
August 11, 2006, 08:49 PM
I'm sure you would do this, but make sure they are unloaded.

Zundfolge
August 11, 2006, 09:03 PM
You'll have to ship the handguns "Overnight" by UPS or FedEx ... you can't use the USPS to ship handguns since you're not a dealer.

I assume you're going to be driving from FL to NC at some point, why not just put them in the trunk and save yourself the expense?

No FFL needed to drive your guns across state lines.

Car Knocker
August 11, 2006, 10:51 PM
Should be interesting to see if UPS or FedEx will accept firearms for shipping to oneself.

Birukun
August 11, 2006, 11:57 PM
I am curious as well, as a friend of mine is active duty military and he left a pistol with me for safekeeping during his tour in Japan. (obviously he could not take it with him)

He called today (coincidence) to let me know he is at his new duty station on the East Coast.

I am in California and need to ship it to him. FFL needed?

While I am considering using an FFL to ship, it is not my pistol, so it is not a transfer.

Arghh. Something so simple can be so complicated....

Bill in SD

SIOP
August 12, 2006, 01:10 AM
While I am considering using an FFL to ship, it is not my pistol, so it is not a transfer

Sure is. Just because it was for "safekeeping" doesn't make it any less of a transfer in the eyes of the ATF. No money has to exchange hands in order for it to be considered a transfer. The only legal way for you to ship the gun to him is through an FFL on his end, and your end also if California requires it.

Hkmp5sd
August 12, 2006, 03:02 AM
Just because it was for "safekeeping" doesn't make it any less of a transfer in the eyes of the ATF. No money has to exchange hands in order for it to be considered a transfer.

If this is true, why does ATF allow you to ship a firearm to yourself at someone elses address? You can ship a firearm "Care Of" some buddy in another state so you can pick it up when you arrive. Hunters frequently do this instead of travelling with their firearms.

WeedWhacker
August 12, 2006, 03:57 AM
We've gone through this before (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=194578&highlight=shipping+USC) ( http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=194578&highlight=shipping+USC ).

The long and short: 18 USC 922 does not require you to notify common carriers (essentially, any shipper except the Postal Service) that the package(s) contain firearms of any sort. There is no need to ship overnight, etc., due to law, because there is nothing in the law which requires that. The only thing requiring such is the carrier's policy, and policy is not law.

I don't have a handy source which explicitly spells out that it is find and legal to ship firearms to yourself via a friend (or other out-of-state location), but that is the case per the BATFE.

Hkmp5sd
August 12, 2006, 04:35 AM
The long and short: 18 USC 922 does not require you to notify common carriers

You need to re-read that thread. The law DOES require a non-licensee to inform the contract carrier if he is shipping to anyone OTHER than a licensee.

mike101
August 12, 2006, 05:03 AM
There are no FEDERAL laws against non-FFL holders selling and/or shipping guns to each other directly. Things get stickier when one of the parties is a FFL holder.

One method, that was advised by a gun refinisher on the Internet, was to remove a vital part (cylinder or barrel) and call the contents of the package "machine parts". He says that, technically, this is not lying, and you can ship any way you want. Hmmm.:cool:

I would just put them in the trunk and drive them to your new location, since you won't be passing through any gun-unfriendly states.

SIOP
August 12, 2006, 10:29 AM
If this is true, why does ATF allow you to ship a firearm to yourself at someone elses address? You can ship a firearm "Care Of" some buddy in another state so you can pick it up when you arrive. Hunters frequently do this instead of travelling with their firearms.

Because when you ship to yourself, there's no transfer of the firearm to another person. The person you ship to in care of has to be instructed not to open the package. In this instance, the firearm is being transferred from one person to another, interstate. So even assuming that ATF would buy off on the "safekeeping" thing as not being a transfer of the firearm, which I seriously doubt they would, it's still an interstate transfer of a firearm between two private parties.

Hkmp5sd
August 12, 2006, 07:01 PM
it's still an interstate transfer of a firearm between two private parties.

I disagree. It would be interesting for an official ATF response.

Tory
August 12, 2006, 07:08 PM
There are no FEDERAL laws against non-FFL holders selling and/or shipping guns to each other directly. Things get stickier when one of the parties is a FFL holder.

Patently absurd and completely BACKWARDS. ANY interstate transfer which is NOT an inheritance requires an FFL in the receiving party's state. RTFD !

This means that, not only is the use of an FFL not making things "sticker;" it is required by Federal law. :scrutiny:

Happy
September 1, 2006, 12:03 PM
A friend of mine was given a pistol by her brother. She left the pistol back home (Alabama) when she moved here (Georgia). Her husband recently passed away and she now wants to have the gun in her home. How does she get it to GA?
From everything I've read on here, I'm guessing she can wait until the next time she goes to visit him and ship it back to herself overnight. (She flies out to visit him.) Otherwise, if she wants it now, she's going to have to have him ship it to her via an FFL?

wdlsguy
September 1, 2006, 12:40 PM
I'm guessing she can wait until the next time she goes to visit him and ship it back to herself overnight.
She could do that, or she could check it in her luggage in accordance with TSA and airline procedures.

Otherwise, if she wants it now, she's going to have to have him ship it to her via an FFL?
That would work too.

EOD Guy
September 1, 2006, 12:51 PM
it's still an interstate transfer of a firearm between two private parties.


I disagree. It would be interesting for an official ATF response.

Here is the regulation. It includes more than just transfer.

TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS, AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 478_COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents

Subpart C_Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions

Sec. 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees.

No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or
deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows
or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person
is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of
business in) the State in which the transferor resides.

Hkmp5sd
September 1, 2006, 08:08 PM
Yea, I know that part by heart. The question was this: If person #1 stores a firearm with person #2 and leaves the state, can person #2 then ship the firearm person #1 in his home state? Ownership doesn't change and ATF allows a person to ship a firearm to himself. Does that apply here or not? I know they allow a person to box up a firearm, leave it at a friends house and then have the friend give it to a shipper at a later date.

Could person #1 send person #2 a self addressed box, have person #2 place the firearm in the box and give the box to a shipper? That should meet the requirement of shipping to yourself.

EOD Guy
September 1, 2006, 10:30 PM
Yea, I know that part by heart. The question was this: If person #1 stores a firearm with person #2 and leaves the state, can person #2 then ship the firearm person #1 in his home state? Ownership doesn't change and ATF allows a person to ship a firearm to himself. Does that apply here or not? I know they allow a person to box up a firearm, leave it at a friends house and then have the friend give it to a shipper at a later date.

#1 transferred possession to #2. #2 cannot transfer back to #1 in another state without going throughan FFL in #1's state. BATF doesn't care about ownership. Possession is what counts.


Could person #1 send person #2 a self addressed box, have person #2 place the firearm in the box and give the box to a shipper? That should meet the requirement of shipping to yourself.

No. #1 is still transferring possession to #2 in another state. #2 is notshipping to himself. #1 is doing the shipping.

I have been working with State and Federal regulation for several decades and one of the first things I learned is that trying to use logic or common sense to interpet the regulations will only get you in trouble.

BATF is aware of all the name games that people try to use to circumvent the regulations. They might be amused by some but don't buy most.

Most Federal agencies, including BATF, are very open about giving clarifications to their regulations. It may take 3-6 weeks to get an answer, but most questions will get a straightforward response. Written questions should be sent to the agency's headquarters in Washington, not to local field offices.

Believe it or not, letters of clarification from Federal agencies do have legal status.

Hkmp5sd
September 2, 2006, 12:17 AM
Ok, I believe you. :)

The Deer Hunter
September 2, 2006, 12:43 AM
Alex 45, how do you legally own pistols if your under 21?

weregunner
September 2, 2006, 12:43 AM
Just a thought.How about calling the local BATFE office in your region to find out.They ,ahem, wrote the book after all.Shouldn't the state attorney general's office be a source on this topic.

knuckles
September 2, 2006, 01:23 AM
Alex 45, how do you legally own pistols if your under 21?

Yeah, I was going to ask that too....

wdlsguy
September 2, 2006, 01:32 AM
An 18 year old can buy a handgun from a non-FFL in Florida.

Hkmp5sd
September 2, 2006, 07:37 AM
Alex 45, how do you legally own pistols if your under 21?

Federal law only prohibits you from purchasing a handgun from a licensed dealer while under the age of 21. Many states allow sale of a handgun from private persons to anyone over 18.

SIOP
September 2, 2006, 09:15 AM
Alex 45, how do you legally own pistols if your under 21?

You have to be 21 to purchase a handgun from a dealer. Many states allow private purchases and possession for people under 21.

knuckles
September 2, 2006, 08:48 PM
An 18 year old can buy a handgun from a non-FFL in Florida.

I have been suitably enlightened....

atek3
September 7, 2006, 07:12 PM
similar question.

I moved from California to New Hampshire, but the CMP shipped my rifle to my old address (after I told them not to). My old roommate has my rifle, still in it's unopened box, can he slap a new shipping label over the old one and UPS it to me legally?

atek3

wdlsguy
September 7, 2006, 07:40 PM
Have you contacted CMP?

Hkmp5sd
September 7, 2006, 10:09 PM
Does UPS forward packages like the post offices does?

Have him give it back to UPS and they can either ship it to you or back to CMP.

EOD Guy
September 7, 2006, 10:19 PM
similar question.

I moved from California to New Hampshire, but the CMP shipped my rifle to my old address (after I told them not to). My old roommate has my rifle, still in it's unopened box, can he slap a new shipping label over the old one and UPS it to me legally?

atek3

No, he cannot.

Contact CMP customer service immediately. They will make it right.


Make sure your friend does not open the box.

atek3
September 7, 2006, 11:13 PM
what's the point of contacting the CMP, it's too late. I'm going to call UPS and see if they'll forward.

atek3

EOD Guy
September 8, 2006, 09:46 AM
what's the point of contacting the CMP, it's too late. I'm going to call UPS and see if they'll forward.

atek3

Because they might send a pickup tag to forward the rifle.

Also, contacting UPS will get you nowhere. CMP uses FedEx.:)

KellyTTE
September 8, 2006, 01:34 PM
How about actually looking up the law for the gent moving?:banghead:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b10

Yes, its legal to ship them to yourself at the new address.

'Tilla

SIOP
September 8, 2006, 02:07 PM
Yes, its legal to ship them to yourself at the new address.


Correct. But he's not the one doing the shipping. The only for this to remotely have a chance of being legal is for UPS to come pick up the gun and do the forwarding themselves. And even this route is questionable. If the roommate does it both he and the other guy will have committed a felony. Just my opinion. But I'm an FFL and have studied the regs fairly extensively.

KellyTTE
September 10, 2006, 12:50 PM
*sigh*

Ok, fine.

The OP needs to call FedEx, issue an overnight pickup tag, and have the FedEx DRIVER come to the house, pick up the weapon while the roomie watches and put it on the truck to be delivered.

Case solved. No one has touched the weapon and he's technically shipped it from himself to himself.

'Tilla

EOD Guy
September 10, 2006, 01:11 PM
*sigh*

Ok, fine.

The OP needs to call FedEx, issue an overnight pickup tag, and have the FedEx DRIVER come to the house, pick up the weapon while the roomie watches and put it on the truck to be delivered.

Case solved. No one has touched the weapon and he's technically shipped it from himself to himself.

'Tilla

That is a good solution. However, as I stated above, I would contact CMP Customer Service and see if they will issue the pickup tag. If it was their mistake, they will make it right. He will never know if he doesn't try.

Car Knocker
September 10, 2006, 02:27 PM
Does FedEx policy allow a driver to pick up a firearm?

KellyTTE
September 10, 2006, 06:23 PM
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/terms/us.html

Click on 'Firearms'

'Tilla

Car Knocker
September 10, 2006, 07:46 PM
you agree to tender shipments of firearms to us only when either the shipper or recipient is a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer or licensed collector and is not prohibited from making such shipments by local, state or federal regulations;

So much for slapping a new label on it.

Contacting CMP as EOD Guy suggested certainly couldn't hurt.

orionengnr
September 10, 2006, 08:09 PM
Now we have two different circumstances, and discussions going on about the legal aspects of each (sometimes both).

One poster recommends contacting DC and not the local authorities; next guy says to contact the locals.

I often wonder--do you guys read the thread?
Or just read the last post, and then engage keyboard?

What a mess. :banghead:

Car Knocker
September 10, 2006, 08:42 PM
Yeah, in retrospect two threads dealing with the differing aspects would have been much more workable.

EOD Guy
September 10, 2006, 09:00 PM
Quote:
you agree to tender shipments of firearms to us only when either the shipper or recipient is a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer or licensed collector and is not prohibited from making such shipments by local, state or federal regulations;


So much for slapping a new label on it.

Contacting CMP as EOD Guy suggested certainly couldn't hurt.
__________________
Don

Especially since CMP has a contract with FedEx which supersedes the stated requirements. CMP does not have an FFL and ships to nonlicensees.

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