[Chaotic Mind]

I'm a total freaking novice in this area so any tips would be appreciated. I don't want to put down money for something like a Barret .50 cal (yet) but I would like something that I can learn with, thats good, but not crazy expensive. Any help would be great. Thanks in advance.

[Jim Watson]

Who are you going to be sniping at?

[bdutton]

Remington Model 700 (http://www.snipercentral.com/m700p.htm)

[Ohen Cepel]

If you want production stuff Remington, FN, Tikka, and Savage would all be worth a look.

You can often find excellent Remington's that aren't "tactical" versions for much less money that will shoot great or can be improved to shoot great.

I would go with a 5.56 if you're a novice. Don't want to break the bank shooting it and don't want to develope a flinch.

Riflescopes.com sells a great Super Sniper scope for about $250 or so if you don't want to get too much cash in the glass.

You could get a nice Savage with a SS scope put together for under $1k.

[jjohnson]

Well, you didn't give us a lot to work with other than "newbie" and "no Barrett" but if you're up for something that you can buy and get good with, Savage is probably a good place to start looking if you want "value." Their tactical boltguns aren't pretty, but they're very well priced, solid, and the accutrigger means you don't have to run your new Rem 700 down to the gunsmith to chunk out more money just to get a decent trigger. Savages are known for being good shooters right out of the box. You can invest the money you saved over say, the Rem or Winchester into a quality scope. Go with .223 or .308 so you won't spend a fortune on ammo. If you really want to practice to get good, I'd suggest the .223 - fairly cheap ammo in a million varieties of surplus, not enough "boom" to make you learn a flinch, blah blah blah. Most of your practice is going to be at ranges short enough you don't need 30 caliber 168 grain match ammo for anyway. There ARE finer rifles and more refinements to be had, but if you're just getting started, don't blow a fortune - get the "chevy" instead of the BMW.

Be sure you get quality optics. Don't be afraid to shuck out a couple hundred bucks. You don't have to buy Zeiss or Swarovsi glass, but don't put the Wal-Mart $39 deer hunter's special on it. :scrutiny: If you need help on selecting a scope, start another thread for it - it's a ball game all of its own, and putting a poor scope on a pretty good rifle will just make you frustrated. :banghead:

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

I have difficulty responding with quality information to a person that asks about a 'sniping rifle', that has a login ID of Chaotic Mind.

Had you asked about an affordable quality military style target rifle for long range shooting, you may have gotten more responses.

-Steve

[redneck2]

I have difficulty responding with quality information to a person that asks about a 'sniping rifle', that has a login ID of Chaotic Mind.I'd 2nd that. Particularly someone that has 7 total posts.

Better pass.

[Chaotic Mind]

Who are you going to be sniping at? Oh my goodness. No one! I'm not crazy; Chaotic Mind is a nick-name I was given in high school guys. I'm not crazy, and I have no intention on hurting people with anything I learn. I like to shoot but my knowledge of shooting long range accurately is limited, as my only training was when I was in the Navy and as you can imagine I didn't get a whole lot as I was a Radioman. Now I would like to learn more about how to shoot and sniper rifle was the most specific way I could think of to describe that I wanted to be able to hit distant targets accurately in a consistent manner with a decent rifle to start with. I'm not some loon running around in the woods (well, I live in the Redwoods but I'm not out running in them all crazy like). :D

To those who responded thanks. I was also wondering if the M25 is bolt action or does it have a removable magazine like the M21. The reason I ask is because once I graduate I'd like to pick one of the two up. Thanks for any responses.

[SRMohawk]

CM,
To my mind, a 'good, accurate [tactical] rifle has always meant going custom. However, custom doesn't always mean super-expensive. IMHO, the very best way to go would be to order a Surgeon Rifles action (M700 clone with far fewer parts; integral recoil lug and scope rail, too). These are super-strong actions that were designed as much for durability as they were for accuracy. Then get a McMillan HTG stock in your desired LOP, a 24-26" #7 or #8 taper Kreiger, Lilja, Broughton, or Hart barrel, Badger Ordnance scope rings, and a Leupold Mark IV in 10x or 16x. Then let Precision Barrel Works or Bryant Custom Rifles (both are in Texas, both are 1st-rate smiths, and both are very affordable by comparison to smiths who do work of equivalent quality).

All components/equipment and labor will end up costing you less than $4000 (remember that this includes really badass optics if you go with a Leupold Mark IV), which is actually less than tactical rifles incorporating blue-printed, overhauled Remington M700 or other factory actions (much less if you're considering other custom actions like a Borden or Nesika) and a Swarovski or Schmidt & Bender scope. And in the end, the rifle's performance won't just be as good as the very best of it's peers, it'll be around long after you will withstanding regular cleaning/maintenance! It'll be relatively light, too, at around 11-12 lbs (the recommended stock and optics are the lightest of all same-class equipment).

[Jim Watson]

A .308 Savage will take you to 1000 yards. I have done it. Going to do some testing at 600 yards today, in fact.

You can spend a lot more - an M21, M24 or M40 clone, or a way serious long range match or "precision" rifle, but the Savage will do 90% as well for 25% of the price. And when you need that last 10%, gunsmithing is available.

But if you REALLY want to learn to shoot without breaking the bank - talking about "when you graduate" tells me you have a low budget - get a good .22. If you can hit with a .22 at 100 yards, highpower at 600 will be no sweat. The CZ family is well thought of around here.

[SRMohawk]

Hmmm. Jim's right :o. But you tend not to get tired of badass custom rifles :D !

[Nortonics]

Go with a Savage in .243 or .308 and put a scope on it that equals the cost & quality of the gun. Forget those wimpy-ass .223's - it's like the horrible advise that everybody gives to newbies that ask "what should be my first gun?" and 90% of the responses are "get a .22 LR" - UGGGGHHHHH - I already played with cap guns when I was under 10. Don't waste your money...

[Jim Watson]

I didn't want to try to shuffle three rifles today, so all I had out were my .308 Savage and my wimpy-ass .223 that I am trying to make into a Long Range rifle. It is doing fine at 500 metres and 600 yards and I think I now have some bullets that will hold up to 1000.

Generally, I like shooting that capgun .22. I get some good ammo and set the target far enough away to learn something and have a good time.
My pard was very disappointed today, though. When he got tired of shooting his capgun at 100 yards, he found his scope did not have enough elevation adjustment to get to 200. But some base shims or those Burris rings with eccentric inserts will take care of that.

[MIL-DOT]

though i'm no sniper (chaotically minded,or otherwise :neener: ) i was bitten by the sniper-rifle bug a while back,too. i stumbled on a relative deal on a rem. 700 PSS, then did considerable research on optics, and settled on a leupold MK4 PR 4.5X 14, 30 mm. tube & 40mm. objective. i got lucky and spent roughly the same on the optics as the rifle, but the above advice is good : spend MORE on your scope. i'd recommend doing what i did, and peruse the sniper rifle-optics forums. loads of good info there.
for what it's worth, i agree that you should go .308, not the "wimpy" .223. don't wanna be trying to sell a gun to pay for what you should have gotten in the first place. though i'm happy with my PSS, i also concur with the savage recommendations, i hear nothing but good about them. hope this helps.......

[Geno]

Some of us have more years experience, grew up with firearms, etc. If noot for that fact alone, then simply to keep our High Road motto, I'd rather see redirects to such seeming unthoought (inexperienced) questions.

Most here have (IMHO) directed you well. I used to have a couple of Rem 700Vs (varmint) rifles in .223 Rem.; .22-250 Rem. and 6mm Rem. They were excellent.

Last week I tried the trigger display on for the Savage rifles. If I were to purchase a new "snipping rifle", I strongly feel that I would purchase a Savage. I have read all prositive reports, nothing negative.

CM:

See PM sent to you. God bless,

Doc2005

[goalie]

I recently went out to the range with another member from this BB to break in the barrel on a new Savage 10FP with a Choate varmint stock. The last 4 shot group at 100 yards (after 10 single shots/clean, then two 3-shot groups/clean) was one ragged hole and a half-inch in size. He shot a group that was barely bigger as well, with a called flyer.

The rifle sports a SuperSniper 10x42 on Warne tactical rings and bases.

You could get the complete outfit for a grand or less, and it would be a good enough rig to win with if you had the skills.

[jjohnson]

Yeah, well, some of us don't get to choose the caliber we shoot and have to make the best of it. When I was a kid - I mean over 30 years ago and before the Army made me use that wimpy a** M16 - I liked my .22-250s and .30-06 for shooting GROUNDHOGS. Between that and a handful of .22s I learned trigger control, stock weld, all that happy stuff, even with the mouse guns.:what:

I am still shooting quarter-sized groups with my wimpy-a** .223 at 200 yards with that ugly Savage.:fire:

One thing to consider, unless you shoot hundreds of rounds a week, is most folks shooting .30 wind up learning more 'flinch' than anything at the range. Basics like trigger control, breathing/posture, and stock weld get lost. I really like the .30 cals and up... the .50 Ma Deuce is a favorite... but it annoys the neighbors. I don't want to introduce the .223 vs .308 debate any more than I want to go through the 9mm/.45 again :barf: but can we agree that there's something to be said about getting practice? And not to knock the .243, but lots of us shoot milsurp for economy. Practice is something easy to afford with a .22, but it's hard to play one at 200+ yards.
I can shoot through an ammo can of .223 in a day and not feel shellshocked or go bankrupt. If you can do that with the same number of .308, you're a better man than I am. I never liked the .223 as a real combat weapon, but if you don't learn to actually hit targets 'cause you're flinching, I don't care what you miss with.:banghead:

[USSR]

Chaotic Mind,

I would suggest you visit a local shooting club which has a 600-1000 yard rifle range. Introduce yourself to some of the long range shooters and have a look at what equipment they are using. Personally, I would suggest a .308 (everybody needs a .308, what you get after that is up to you).

Don

[bigger jon]

PSS is my favoret in 308 it shoot straight all day long.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/jhunter63/IM004646.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/jhunter63/IM004655.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/jhunter63/IM003961.jpg

[Powderman]

When I was in the market for a good, accurate rifle, I thought about my dream rifle--custom built, Nesika Bay action in a McMillan stock, Jewell trigger and a Kreiger or Obermeyer barrel chambered in .308, 5 grooves with a 1-10 twist. Top all that off with a Schmidt and Bender 5-25 PM II, or a US Optics SN-3 T-Pal, same magnification.

Only problem was that I didn't have about $7000 laying around for all of that.

So, I looked at two other rifles, the Remington PSS and the FN SPR. Both were over $1000. I could not afford that either.

Then I looked at a Savage FP10-LE2A.

I then purchased said rifle. :D

I have a Kahles 3-12x56 mounted on it. It came with a 2 lb pull, right out of the box. With my issued duty ammo (Federal GM Match 168 grain), it will consistently do 1/2 inch or better at 100 yards from a cold bore.

The Savage rifle costs around $600.00. I'm saving up for a good scope--I'm still torn between a Leupold LR/T 8.5-25, or a Nightforce 8-32 NXS with the NP2 reticle.

Take a close look at the Savage.

[Sunray]

Putting a scope on a bolt action rifle does not make it a sniper's rifle. Even if you paint it camouflage and put a bipod on it. The closest you can get, at a reasonable price, is a heavy barreled target rifle chambered in .308 Win. Even that isn't a sniper's rifle. A sniper's rifle is a heavily customized rifle that is used with very, very good ammo by highly trained troopies.
Like Ohen Cepel says, take the word 'tactical' out and the price is lower. The word 'tactical' when applied to anything firearm related is a marketing term. Nothing more.

[Powderman]

Sunray:

For shame and forsooth!!!:eek:

You mean to tell me that the Leupold LR/T Mark 4 tactical 8.5-25 I've been lusting after is nothing more than a Vari-X III with a 30mm tube and an illuminated reticle?!!!!!:uhoh: Horrors, I tell ya! Horrors!!!!!

;)

[KINGMAX]

Get a REMINGTON 700 platform, :) the caliber is up to you. :cool: I have chosen a .270. I do shoot a small line of Mosen's so the recoil on the .270 isn't all that. :cool: :fire: What type of game are you considering is the other side of the coin.

[Metapotent]

Like Ohen Cepel says, take the word 'tactical' out and the price is lower. The word 'tactical' when applied to anything firearm related is a marketing term. Nothing more.

I resent that. I have 2 Tikka T3 Tacticals in .308 and .223 and they pretty much put to shame every other rifle I have ever shot in either caliber, they cost slightly more than the other T3's but they are much more accurate.

Plus...they look cooler. :D

[nico]

Depending on one's budget (ie: if it's in the couple thousand $$ range), I'd take a look at a Surgeon Action (www.surgeonrifles.com). It's basically an improved 700 action with an integral 20MOA scope base. It costs a lot more than a 700 action, but it doesn't need to be trued, blueprinted, etc. They have a price comparison on their site.