CCW on a cruise ship


PDA






BIGDADDYLONGSTROKE
August 12, 2006, 07:41 PM
Stupid question here but, I have been searching the web and can't find any up to date legall info on concealed carry on a cruise ship.

Does anyone know if it is legal to carry concealed on a cruise ship as long as it is staying within the states. For instance Washington to Alaska?

I would assume it is not and they are treated like airplances.

If you enjoyed reading about "CCW on a cruise ship" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Car Knocker
August 12, 2006, 08:01 PM
Does anyone know if it is legal to carry concealed on a cruise ship as long as it is staying within the states. For instance Washington to Alaska?


Thought Canada was in between W and A? :D

All the threads I've seen in various forums indicate that CCW is a no-no. Metal detectors included. BUT, I seem to recall that there is a ferry between the two states that allows firearms????

SigLaw
August 12, 2006, 08:05 PM
If you are talking about a seven day type cruise from Seatlle and up to Alaska, no way can you CCW, there will be metal detectors and I image any attempt to bring one on board in your luggage would violate some Federal law.

Walter
August 12, 2006, 08:59 PM
Nope. I've been on several cruises, and the restrictions on handguns are
just as tight on the cruise ships as they are on airlines. In fact,
tighter. You can "check" a handgun in baggage on an airliner, as long as
it is "declared" and locked up in your baggage. Not so on a cruise ship.

Their rule, as I understand it, is, No guns, No way, Period.

I wanted to carry my CCW piece with me on the first cruise I went on, but after reading all the "fine print", I decided against it. It was a good decision, because there was no way I was getting on that ship with that gun.

Walk-thru metal detectors, and the hand-held wands, just to get to the boarding area. And they said all the luggage is X-rayed before it is loaded.
Of coarse, this was all after 9-11, but I doubt they have gotten any more lenient in their allowing of guns "on board".

Walter

Cosmoline
August 12, 2006, 09:31 PM
A CRUISE SHIP?! Why anyone in their right mind would set foot on one of those disease-ridden drunk barges is beyond me. They look like prison ships, and the people are herded here and there like sheep. There are much better ways to see Alaska.

Dmack_901
August 12, 2006, 10:04 PM
It's really not that bad Cosmoline. They're like a hotel where you wake up in a new city every morning. But I have to reccomend Holland America over the others, definately cleaner.

But on all of them CCW is no go. Legally they could allow it(I think), but it's their boat, their rules, and it makes sense considering the drinking in which some patrons enduldge.

AJAX22
August 12, 2006, 10:24 PM
You can get a pocket knife on to the ship. they don't let you, and they'll give you a song and dance about bringing a weapon into a weapon free area, but if you ask them to leave it with security for the trip, then you can have it when you leave the ship.

While on the ship, its an easy thing to "borrow" a steak knife.

Guns are a no-no but you don't have to be totally unarmed.

On my last cruise they were so buisy giving me a hard time about my pocket knife, they missed the spyderco in my baggage.

Mostly the security guys just want a free knife, don't let them get away with it, make them hold it and give it back, and get a reciept.

cane
August 12, 2006, 11:36 PM
"Alaska" cruises leave from Vancouver BC, not Washington State. The Jones act prohibits the cruise ships from sailing from one US port directly to another.

SigLaw
August 12, 2006, 11:47 PM
NCL sails roundtrip Honolulu to Honolulu but they use US flagged ships, so cruise ships can go from one US port to another. Also here is a Celebrity Cruise inteniary, it look like they do Seatlle roundtrip.

Ports of call: Seattle, Washington; Juneau, Alaska; Skagway, Alaska; Hubbard Glacier, Alaska; Ketchikan, Alaska; Nanaimo, Canada; Seattle, Washington.

benEzra
August 12, 2006, 11:56 PM
The Jones act prohibits the cruise ships from sailing from one US port directly to another.
???

Why?

Cosmoline
August 13, 2006, 12:10 AM
So setting foot on a prison ship that FORBIDS YOU FROM CARRYING is "not that bad"?! Think for a second. You're PAYING THEM to DISARM YOU for weeks on end. When does that get fun? I see these packs of touristas getting herded around. Are they afraid we're going to bite them or something? We're AMERICANS you fools! Alaska is not a foreign country. You don't have to rely on some fascist cruise ship to shepherd you around.

But on all of them CCW is no go. Legally they could allow it(I think), but it's their boat, their rules, and it makes sense considering the drinking in which some patrons enduldge.

There are plenty of drunks in Spenard, but that sure don't mean the city gets to disarm me! Their boat, their rules--YOUR MONEY, YOUR TIME, YOUR LIFE! That's no bargain. Don't go on the cruise ships.

davec
August 13, 2006, 06:26 PM
Why?


It's not actually the Jones Act, its the Passenger Services Act (of 1886). The later Jones act clarifies which vessels are subject to the PSA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Services_Act

No foreign vessels shall transport passengers between ports or places in the United States, either directly or by way of a foreign port, under a penalty of $300 for each passenger so transported and landed.

It was enacted as a protectionist measure for US shipping companies.


more:
http://www.sealetter.com/Oct-99/alancol.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jones_Act_%28sailor_rights%29

Air,Land&Sea
August 13, 2006, 06:46 PM
No CCW, but the karaoke is fantastic.

Buck Nekkid
August 13, 2006, 08:32 PM
I know I'm going to spell this incorrectly, but do y'all remember the Kile Lauro? Cruise ships have been attacked by terrorists in the past and probably will again as the great jihad continues. If I can't carry, I ain't goin'

Car Knocker
August 13, 2006, 08:45 PM
Close. Achile Lauro.

davec
August 13, 2006, 10:17 PM
I know I'm going to spell this incorrectly, but do y'all remember the Kile Lauro? Cruise ships have been attacked by terrorists in the past and probably will again as the great jihad continues. If I can't carry, I ain't goin'

because as we all know from the movie Die Hard starring Bruce Willis, one man with a sidearm can single handedly foil a terrorist band armed with automatic weapons and explosives.

Yippie Kayay!

Cosmoline
August 14, 2006, 02:29 AM
I'd be more concerned about drunks pushing me overboard. They're infested prison barges. Only sheep and fools go on them.

gazpacho
August 14, 2006, 03:09 AM
Most cruise ships aren't US flagged. In international waters you are governed by the laws under which the ship is flagged. Think about that the next time you sail.

mpthole
August 14, 2006, 10:07 AM
"Alaska" cruises leave from Vancouver BC, not Washington State. The Jones act prohibits the cruise ships from sailing from one US port directly to another.That's news to me... Two years ago I took an NCL cruise from Seattle to Alaska. Our first stop after leaving Seattle was Juneau.

As far as CCW goes... a big no-no on a cruise ship.

cane
August 14, 2006, 10:18 AM
I checked with NCL, they are using US flagged ships for the Hawaii and Alaska cruises.

Thin Black Line
August 14, 2006, 11:33 AM
Most cruise ships aren't US flagged. In international waters you are governed by the laws under which the ship is flagged. Think about that the next time you sail.

I think the flagging also has to do with how the cruise line's corporate
ownership is taxed.

Cousin Mike
August 14, 2006, 11:44 AM
By now, common knowledge is that CCW on a cruise ship = a big no no.

However, as mentioned before, airplanes are the same - you can't carry even though you can have it 'checked' in a bag somewhere on the plane. A lot of good that would do you if you needed it.

Even within your very state, city, town, whatever... I assume that there are places you can't carry.

My question is this... Are you that afraid to travel without your gun?

If so, there are a lot of things out there you'll never get to see. If that means enough to you to limit your travels, by all means stay home. I tend to think that the world is worth seeing.

Even if I have to leave my gun at home sometimes to do so.

Of course, some folks would just rather stay in their home state their whole lives, and would call you a fool for doing otherwise... To each his own.

Nathanael_Greene
August 14, 2006, 01:25 PM
"I'd be more concerned about drunks pushing me overboard. They're infested prison barges. Only sheep and fools go on them."

Speak for yourself. I am neither a sheep nor a fool.

I've been on several cruises and will no doubt go on several more. I've always had a great time, have never gotten sick, been attacked by a drunk, or had any experience worse than sunburn. In exchange, I've seen beautiful places, had great meals, and been treated extremely well by staff that knows the meaning of service.

And getting back to the topic of the original post, attempting to smuggle a handgun aboard ship would qualify as a Very Bad Thing.

If you go on a cruise, go prepared to relax, not shoot. You'll have a much better time, and so will your shipmates.

Cosmoline
August 14, 2006, 02:33 PM
In exchange, I've seen beautiful places, had great meals, and been treated extremely well by staff that knows the meaning of service.

:scrutiny: So if you're treated well enough it's OK to be disarmed? The "meaning of service" in my opinion does not include being disarmed by force.

If so, there are a lot of things out there you'll never get to see. If that means enough to you to limit your travels, by all means stay home. I tend to think that the world is worth seeing.

Um, we're talking about an Alaska cruise here. You really don't need to disarm yourself to come here :D :D Indeed, you can even bring a hunting rifle through Canada as long as you abide by their procedures. I've seen thousands of cruise ship passengers in this state. They're usually kept in isolated buses and shuffled from one tourist trap to another. It's always boggled my mind that AMERICANS should feel so terrified about visiting a part of their own nation that they have to be led around from place to place and kept disarmed like children. Do you think we're going to attack you if you don't have the tour operator's protection or something? What's the matter with you people?

The really sad part is, there are thousands of FOREIGN tourists, esp. from Germany, who come up here with no tour operator and no buses. If they can do it, why do so many Americans feel the need to be turned into sheep and herded around?

Librarian
August 14, 2006, 02:50 PM
The really sad part is, there are thousands of FOREIGN tourists, esp. from Germany, who come up here with no tour operator and no buses. If they can do it, why do so many Americans feel the need to be turned into sheep and herded around?Schedule, probably.

When that ship leaves, it leaves. Water taxis are reputed to be expensive.

When my wife and I did our San Francisco - Canada - Alaska and back cruise last year we did a mix of tours and wandering around by ourselves. Since our hotel was the ship, we had to pay attention to its schedule. If we were running from town to town making our own arrangements, we'd probably do things differently.

TX1911fan
August 14, 2006, 03:56 PM
Cosmo, were you treated badly on a cruise ship in another life? You seem to harbor extreme animosity. I seriously doubt that most tour groups even stop to consider YOU at all. They are not afraid of YOU, they are interested in convenience. They want someone else to take them to the cool places, and do it easily and cheaply. That generally means on a bus, on a schedule set by the tour group. I've seen hundreds of tour groups in Austin and San Antonio, from the US and all over the world, and I never once thought "Sheesh, I can't believe they are so afraid of me that they have to have a tour group." I have thought it a shame that they are not allowed more free time to see things off the beaten track, but life is full of compromises, and this is one they chose to make. Doesn't mean I have to hate them or call them names. At least they thought enough of my state that they came here in the first place, and spent a bunch of money here to help my economy. I guess Cosmo would prefer tourists to just spend their money elsewhere.

On the subject of cruise ships, however, I tend to agree with Cosmo a bit. It bugs me that the blissninny thinking is to render law abiding citizens defenseless in the name of safety. Do they do a background check to ensure that no passengers have criminal records? What do they do to keep known rapists from coming on board? How about anti-piracy measures? Those are far greater risks than having law abiding citizens, with valid concealed weapon permits, carrying their means of protection.

That said, I wouldn't say someone on a cruise is a fool or a sheep. They are just willing to live with different risks. No different from the person willing to go to the amusement park unarmed.

Cosmoline
August 14, 2006, 04:47 PM
It does get to you after awhile when you and your fellow Alaskans are treated like the animals at a wildlife park. Sometimes I wonder if the people on those ships and buses are instructed to keep their hands in at all times, lest we bite them off. I've had more bad experiences with them than I can easily recount here. One example is when a busload of them got off at the lower level of the McHugh Creek trail. Not that they were actually going to go into the WOODS, no no. Can't do that. And when I emerged from an overnighter, rifle slung across my front, and walked down towards the car they RAN AWAY FROM ME and were shuffled back into the bus by a nervous guide! Or the time my car broke down and I was stranded at Miller's Landing on the little Su for a few hours. A busload of them swung by, which is fine. But some of the tourist clusters started taking pictures of me, as if I was the local fauna! It's a bizarre combination of arrogance and paranoia. They seem to come here with the notion that Alaska is a foreign land where special guides are needed to navigate the roads and translate from the locals.

Please, if you want to come up here just get on the plane or ferry and come up like a normal person. Don't waste your money on those prison barges. You can see a lot more and do a lot more without having to be their de facto prisoner. If you want to come up as a human being, myself or any number of other Alaskans on the forum can give you extensive information about where to go and what to see. Kaylee was just up here, and managed to get back with all her limbs.

ChestyP
August 14, 2006, 06:19 PM
reference was made to Washington ferries as well as teh Alaska cruise ships.

In Washington the ferry system is considered an extension of the highway system. Rules regarding possession of firearmsis the same as if you were driving down the highway. See the page about firearms from the Washington State Ferries web site here:

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/security/

Scroll about halfway down and it addresses firearms on ferries.

One thing to keep in mind is that some ferried also stop in Canada. Guns there are an obvious no-no. Canadian Customs has no sense of humor when it comes to Americans with guns. Trust me!

If you have any further questions about firearms on WA state ferries, e-mail me off-line.

Joe W

Cousin Mike
August 15, 2006, 02:07 AM
I understand Cosmoline's way of thinking. I can understand seeing the ocean and the different cities on the coastline, but at the same time, it's Alaska... a state in our country... So I can understand the strong feelings about being disarmed to visit a part of our own nation, and a place where no one needs to give up their right to bear arms to visit.

And if people took pictures of me minding my own business like I was some big ass caribou, I'd be pretty upset and fed up too... :D

My post was more directed towards travel to another country, via cruise ship. The whole "When in Rome..." thing. If I ever go to Alaska, which I undoubtedly will in my lifetime - I'll be driving or flying. I guess the only thing I don't get is... why take a cruise to Alaska? Yeah, it's beautiful - but it's cold, damnit!

Call me wierd, I just think if I'm on a cruise, I should be going somewhere warm. :neener:

Librarian
August 15, 2006, 03:50 AM
why take a cruise to Alaska? Yeah, it's beautiful - but it's cold, damnit! The major cruise lines don't seem to run to Alaska when it's actually cold. Last summer, besides some time when the ship was a couple km from Hubbard Glacier in Yakutat Bay, I was coldest leaving San Francisco! (Also, in 2 weeks we never got rained on. Everywhere we stopped it seemed we dragged the sun with us.)

RustyShackelford
August 15, 2006, 04:12 AM
The big media push on ship security and US laws/enforcement on passenger ships at sea makes me ask the question;

Will the US Dept of Homeland Security or US Dept of Transportation start a new federal program for "Sea Marshals" like the airline/FAMs(Federal Air Marshals)?

I saw a news report that Christopher Dodd(D-CT) wants to have new laws for cruise ship security and law enforcement on vessels that go in/out of US ports.

Who would these agents be? Would they have full sworn LEO power? Would they carry SIG DAK P-229 .357SIGs or HK P-2000s in .357SIG like the DHS/FAMs?

Rusty S
:cool:

Autolycus
August 15, 2006, 04:31 AM
My boss said he went skeet shooting off of one ship. Obviously they had a shotgun for the ship.

Anyone got any answers about merchant marines? Can they bring a handgun aboard a ship if they keep it on a ship and not take it into port?

Autolycus
August 15, 2006, 04:36 AM
If they would let me be a LEO on a crusie ship I am so down with that. Getting paid to live in paradise and treated as if I am a king would be awesome. Not to mention the amount of woman that are on the ships...:evil:

ceetee
August 15, 2006, 08:26 AM
I've been on a number of cruises, all over the Caribbean, and three times to Alaska. The enjoyment for me is to just get away. As I live in a popular tourist destination myself, and I see the tour buses rumbling around, I can understand it if you feel like a zoo exhibit.

That said, I do arrange much of our shore excursions through the cruise line. It's much easier to go through their catalog, and pick what you want to see. The excursion operator is responsible for making sure the ship doesn't leave without you. I've met plenty of really nice folks, and spent good quality time with them, just by choosing the excursions we took. The last trip, we took a helicopter ride up to the Mendenhall glacier, and met some knowledgable young high-school-age guides. We went on a "Mule" trip around Hoonah, and spent a few hours chatting with the Tlingkit guide. We stopped for coffee after riding the tram up Mt. Roberts...

Regardless... my point is that we make sure to have enough time to see the sights we want to see, while still having enough time to wander around and meet folks. Then, we get back on board, have a cordon bleu meal, have a few drinks, play a bit in the casino (usually I just stand around while the Mrs. wins a few bucks at blackjack) and finish off with a brandy on our private balcony, watching the sun set over Japan.

I'm quite sure the cruise line has adequate security staff, due to some things I've seen and heard while just being observant. I'm equally sure that a good portion of their security staff appear to be passengers, while most probably appear to be waiters, cabin attendants, and casino pit bosses. That said, I've never had any trouble bringing folding knives, pepper sprays, and collapsable batons onboard, packed in my luggage... Just don't be stupid about it. Don't leave anything where your cabin attendant can find it. Don't bring them through the metal detectors. Etc...

Roadwild17
August 15, 2006, 12:25 PM
Call me wierd, I just think if I'm on a cruise, I should be going somewhere warm.


I know what your saying there

RustyShackelford
August 15, 2006, 11:08 PM
I'm with T, ;) to work as a federal-sworn LEO and get full LEAP/LEO pay(see www.opm.gov for more information) would be great. :D

These new "super cruise ships" look like they could use a squad of LEOs to deal with any CT threats or criminal investigations on the trips.

I'm no expert on sea travel but I do know the US Navy puts NCIS Special Agents on board larger Navy ships on sea tours, www.ncis.gov so if DHS or the US Coast Guard posted Special Agents that would be a good plan. :D

RS

Templar223
August 16, 2006, 04:30 PM
I prefer to spend my spare money and spare time in places where I can carry my gun.

It's just personal preference. Just as they have a preference prohibiting my gun.

I'd be delighted to go on a cruise with a company that allowed licensed guns.

Until and unless that happens...

John

stevelyn
August 17, 2006, 10:38 AM
I prefer to spend my money and spare time in places where I can carry my gun.

Same here. I don't go where my liberty isn't welcome.

I agree with Cosmoline on the cruise lines and tourists. You couldn't get me on one of those things.
I've lived up here for nearly 20 years now and I've yet to step foot inside Denali Park. I avoid it and the rest of the NPs like the plague.

The Alaska Ferry System dosen't have any problems with armed passengers either. In the fall when the last ferry of the season comes out our way, about half the town loads up trucks and 4-wheelers with coolers, camping gear and guns and heads over to Cold Bay for caribou and waterfowl hunting.

Subsistence fishermen do the same thing during the summer too. There's just not as many going at a time.

When all those vehicles with gear and gun boots visible start rolling onto the ramp for the vehicle hold, it looks like a redneck and Aleut amphibious assault force going on a deployment.:D

hkmp5g17
September 13, 2007, 04:57 PM
These new "super cruise ships" look like they could use a squad of LEOs to deal with any CT threats or criminal investigations on the trips.


Yep- I used to work for Norwegian Cruise Line in Hawaii- carry is a no-no.

Sorry-Anthony

pdowg881
September 13, 2007, 05:05 PM
The last place I would ever want to be without a weapon is stuck in the middle of the ocean with a bunch of strangers.

TT
September 13, 2007, 05:08 PM
Cosmoline: “…when I emerged from an overnighter…and walked down towards the car they RAN AWAY FROM ME and were shuffled back into the bus by a nervous guide!”
“…some of the tourist clusters started taking pictures of me…”

I think I’m going to have to see a picture of you before I can properly evaluate these observations. :neener:

Gunnerpalace
September 13, 2007, 05:36 PM
Don't underestimate cruise ship security they are not mall ninjas at all I know Princess Cruises hire Fmr british special forces and Iam sure the others are more than capable (after Achille Lauro) of defending themselves, just look at the recent attack on the ship off the coast of Somalia and the sonic pulse gun, I figure these ship have pistol and shotgun's,if not class 3's(the Titanic had pistols on it in 1912).

Guns_and_Labs
September 13, 2007, 05:56 PM
I've never tried a cruise ship... a gap in my education, I guess. Seems like it would be more fun to charter a private boat. Heck, for the price tags I've seen, you could practically buy a sturdy sailboat. Fuel's free, and you can pack any weapon you wanted, I'd guess. I used to do the same headed south.

ServiceSoon
September 13, 2007, 06:10 PM
By now, common knowledge is that CCW on a cruise ship = a big no no.

and that my friends is why I chose not to go on a cruise ship for our honey moon.

MD_Willington
September 13, 2007, 06:15 PM
Alaska cruises are hardly in International waters, they leave from Vancouver BC, head up through the straight between Vancouver Island and the mainland, stick to the Queen Charlotte Islands and then head North from there...

Watched the ships go by every year from 1989-2000.. we could see them from our house in Campbell River BC, on Vancouver Island...

If you enjoyed reading about "CCW on a cruise ship" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!