[ChristopherG]

I've read bunches in preparation for my first Mule-deer season here in Washington, including where to shoot 'em. I do not plan on taking a neck shot; I will be hunting with a 165 gr .30-cal Sierra Gameking and shooting for heart, lungs & shoulders. Studied diagrams, etc..

Nevertheless, I'm curious. I hear about people who take neck-shots--some of whom sound like pretty respectable hunters--and I wonder: Where on the neck? A deer's neck is a fairly long & thick contraption, and if you're going for a sure, quick kill, I expect there's a recognized way to take this shot. So would you fill me in?

Thanks!

[Vern Humphrey]

A neck shot is an iffy thing. If you have to take it, the spine is located in the middle of the neck (seen from the side.) Shooting at a small target you can't see (because it's inside the neck) isn't what I'd recommend.

I say aim for the shoulder, or just behind the shoulder, about 2/3s of the way down the body on anything like a broadside shot. If the animal is quartering away, aim at the far side front leg, again 2/3s of the way down the body. Quartering toward you, aim at the point of the shoulder.

All these shots put your round through the pump room, and will often break major bones in the process -- which is a good thing in some of the places I hunt, since it anchors the animal.

[TrapperReady]

Paging Mr. Eatman.

Mr. Eatman to the Hunting forum, please.

:)

[hps1]

Neck shots can be risky, as VH stated, heart/lung shots are much easier to make. Not only is the spine an unseen target, all it takes is a slight movement of the head to cause a bad shot.

Deer Anatomy:
http://home.mn.rr.com/deerfever/Anatomy.html

Regards,
hps

[Anthony T.]

I think he's just asking about it just in case he has to take one. I see in his post that he knows to take the chest shot first. A neck shot is best IMO when it's right under the head. Try to hit it dead center of neck. It will kill one but you have to hit it in the right spot. anywhere from the spine to theinder part will do it. The jugular will bleed them out pretty quick if you hit low.

[Art Eatman]

A deer's neck bone is about one-third down from the top. A center hit is plenty good. He's either DRT or paralyzed. That's for a side shot. From the front, hit the white spot. I've never had occasion to shoot into a deer from behind, but I guess I'd just go for the center of the neck.

I had the 50 remaining grains of a .243 bullet (after a deflection) hit a deer just under the ear, one time. DRT. Same for an ear shot on another little buck.

And now back to the Knoxville Nationals...

:), Art

[ChristopherG]

Excellent, helpful advice and diagrams all--thank you. I'll be shooting for the boiler-room, myself, but as stated, I was curious about how someone like Art (the 'responsible hunters' I had in mind ;) ) conceived and took the neck shot.

[critter]

Over the years, I have had the opportunity to take 3 deer with neck shots. (BTW-NOT my preferred shot placement by any means!) One with a .44 mag handgun and one with a .54 cal ML round ball. These two were front-to-back neck shots near the head. The third was a side on neck shot, also near the head, at about 30 yds with a .300 mag. NO TRACKING WAS NEEDED in any of these cases!

VERY small target, but if you connect, they are DRT!

[shermacman]

Oh, lordie...what does "DRT" mean?:o

[Texas Colt]

I've had one opportunity to make a neck shot on a white tail buck, only because that was the only shot I had. The buck was facing away and turned his head enough to present his neck. The shot was at 25 yards with a Winchester 94 in 38-55. The buck dropped instantly and never flinched. Again, it's not the ideal shot, but sometimes it's all you get. I much prefer the heart/lung shot.

[rbernie]

Oh, lordie...what does "DRT" mean?Dead Right There.

[JohnKSa]

Just one more thing to consider with head and neck shots.

The prion diseases (like CWD, BSE and CJD) are spread by the ingestion of central nervous system (spinal cord & brain) tissue. If you don't have to, it's probably a good idea to not shoot a deer in such a way as to compromise the central nervous system.

[Kingcreek]

The prion diseases (like CWD, BSE and CJD) are spread by the ingestion of central nervous system (spinal cord & brain) tissue.
I believe that is still theoretical and unproven.
Not that I disagree with you about using reasonable precautions, or avoiding neck shots for other reasons.

[Art Eatman]

christopherG, what got me into this neck-shot deal was my father: He always said, "If you shoot 'em in the white spot, they don't go anywhere." Hey, do you argue with your father?

So I practiced hasty rest and offhand on beer cans out to a hundred yards or so until I got halfway good at it.

Same sort of deal on running deer. He told me to shoot where Bambi is gonna be, a tenth or two of a second later. Well, 30 mph is 44 ft/sec, so a tenth is about four feet (at 100 yards) and you just do the calculus in your head while you bring the rifle up. If he's crossing, you lay the crosshairs out a couple of feet in front of his nose, ignore the up-and-down, and shoot. Usually works. :) If it's an angle, the range is increasing, so it's sorta break-even.

I just wish I could shoot like he did. He's had witnessed, called, neck shots to 500 yards, and running shots to near that. Like I say, witnessed. Called.

I was riding in the jeep with my uncle one day. He locked the brakes, stalled the engine and grabbed his rifle. He'd spotted a trotting-along buck out around 125 yards. As the buck jumped a fence, my uncle broke the buck's neck.

When you have "mentors" like that, you work sorta hard to be able to play in that game. Incentive.

A trick: Always remember that when your brain says, "Shoot!" it takes 0.2 seconds for your finger to repond. That's why a moving target is actually easier than a stationary target for offhand shooting: If you follow through on your swing. The gun's moving, the target's moving, and it all works. If the target is stationary, you gotta tell your finger to pull, but 0.2 seconds BEFORE the sights get perfectly placed--'cause those sights or crosshairs are wobbling about a bit, right?

:), Art

[JohnKSa]

I believe that is still theoretical and unproven.The precise infective agent remains unproven, however the transmission modes are not much in doubt.

Injecting brain tissue from infected animals has been shown to spread prion disease. It is much less likely but still possible for blood to spread the disease, but the highest level of infectious agent is in the CNS.

It is generally accepted that kuru (a TSE/prion disease) was transmitted by ritual cannibalism (eating of dead relatives' brains). The fact that the disease all but disappeared when the cannibalism was stopped contributes heavily to this conclusion.

The National Prion Disease Pathology Surveillance Center says there is "strong evidence" that BSE has been transmitted to humans through ingestion of BSE infected cow meat.

It is true that the TSE/prion diseases do not easily cross the species barrier. That is, eating the brain of a kuru infected human is fairly likely to infect a human but it seems eating the brain of a CWD infected cow is very unlikely to infect a human.

The 'T' in TSE is 'transmissible'. Most heavily studied TSE diseases have been shown to be transmissible between species by various means with various rates of infections.

[BIGJACK]

ARt is right about the location of the neck bone(spine), approximately 1/3 down from the top and thats from his head to his shoulder. A high shoulder shot has the same effect if the spine is hit, drops in his tracks.

However be advised that a hit "near" the spine might simply knock the animal out and when you walk up to him and touch him he will jump up and run off.
I once shot a deer with a .222, with which I had killed many deer with neck shots, turned out that I had hit him a little low and got the juglar vein. I put him in the trunk of my car and in about 5 minutes the sog came too. I kept driving as I was planning on getting to the house to get my shot gun before I raised the lid. He Nearly kicked the trunk lid off but after a few minutes of kicking around he blead to death.

Also knew of an incident out west elk hunting a few years ago where a hunter shot an elk and when he walked up to him he approache from the back and when he poked him with his rifle barrel. The elk jerked his head back and stabed the hunter in the heart with his antler, killing him almost instantly. The elk got up and ran off to die a couple of hundred yards down the mountain.

[Smokey Joe]

TSE's (transmissible spongiform encephalopathies; aren't you glad you asked!) are distinctly spread by ingestion of infected CNS material. Cattle brain USED to be an ingredient for some special ethnic European dishes, until several humans turned up with Mad Cow disease, aka Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy, having eaten these dishes. Needless to say, the popularity of cow brains as human food has since dropped to below 0%. In humans, the same disease is called a variant of Creutzfeld-Jakob Disease. Horrid.

As to eating a neck-shot deer--What would be the problem with eating the rest of the deer, and carefully discarding the portion of the neck near/around the bullet hole? You wouldn't eat any of the CNS anyhow, nowadays, so besides losing some neck muscle, the rest is just bone. Not much of a loss compared to having a deer DRT. It is possible to save and use bloodshot meat, but in this case why risk it.

The best reference for placing ANY shot, on any game animal, would be Craig Boddington's books. For deer, it'd be The Perfect Shot--North America. Includes for each animal, a diagram of location of all the major organs, and bones, plus where in the skull the brain is located. Also a brief discussion of the animal's anatomy.There's also a seprate volume on African game.

Abbreviations: CNS = Central Nervous System DRT = Dead Right There CJD = Creutzfeld-Jakob Disease CWD = Chronic Wasting Disease, the TSE that infects deer-family animals.

BTW--Does anyone know if the American Pronghorn is susceptible to CWD?

[rbernie]

As to eating a neck-shot deer--What would be the problem with eating the rest of the deer, and carefully discarding the portion of the neck near/around the bullet hole?The concern would be the release of tainted cerebrospinal fluid onto the meat being harvested. The likelihood of this happening is really small, especially if you hang the deer for processing by the rear legs, but it's been a concern of mine for a while anyway.

[Thin Black Line]

TSE's (transmissible spongiform encephalopathies; aren't you glad you asked!) are distinctly spread by ingestion of infected CNS material.

+1. It depends on your region of the country as far as its prevalence in
any given species of animal and can range from squirrels through large
game.

Yes, if you hit brain/spine, avoid the meat from the surrounding area and
take precautions about preparing the animal. I do my own butchering so I
know where I've been. I've seen people who will literally still keep and eat
meat that was within millimeters of the bullet channel. They will say they
didn't want to "waste" anything. TSE's aside, this area is going to be
affected by environmental exposure in other ways and is less than optimal
for consumption.

[Smokey Joe]

Rbernie--I would discard any meat that had gotten on it, any goo from the bullet hole. This just means that I'd now get rid of a larger piece of neck meat around the bullet hole than I'd have done years ago.

Far as I'm concerned, the rest of the deer is groceries, just like it always was.

Thin Black Line, you are right on. In the instance under discussion, better to err on the side of caution with regard to "waste" of deer meat. I'd rather waste that than waste what little brain I still posess.

[BIGJACK]

Cow brains have been a part of many southerners food for all time. Brains and eggs were pretty common for breakfast, where I grew up in south mississippi. My mother ate squirrel brains all of her life. Even as I grew old and lived here in alabama I always saved her a few squirrels, with the heads on and she was always pleased to get um. I still try one every now and then myself, pretty dam good too.

[BIGJACK]

AS for the spinal cord fluid, would that not be also just as risky when you sawed stakes or chops and the bone dust, invariable gets on the meat.
I personally usually debone my deer however I do like to saw one up every now and then but guess maybe I had best stop doing that.

[killzone]

I like taking neck shots if there is no wind. I aim at the jaw line and under the ear....As seen in the picture.

I have never had a deer run away with this shot.

The risk is the wind... If you can't adjust the windage right, You will
a) miss,
b) a face shot :barf:
c) not a vital shot

[H&Hhunter]

The risk is the wind... If you can't adjust the windage right, You will
a) miss,
b) a face shot
c) not a vital shot

With little or no blood trail and almost no chance of recovering the animal.

You've got to be real careful with this shot.

You will hear guys say that they only take neck shots because you either kill the animal or miss it that there is no wounding neck shot. To which I say. B.S. (Bovine Scat);) .

The only time I take a neck shot is for a finisher or a frontal shot where the bullet will enter the thoracic cavity anyway if you miss the spine. My way of thinking is why minimize your kill zone by not taking a heart lung shot if it is available? Seems pretty simple to me. But then again I'm not the best shot in the world so I like big targets.

[birddog]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here....I've killed a bunch of deer with a rifle, mostly shoulder / boiler room. About 5 years ago, I started purposely taking neck shots, and I still do, even when the boiler room is available. I have never, repeat never, had a neck shot deer take even one more step.

If a good clean, broadside shot is there...I'll place it 2/3 down the neck from the head and center it. You're not going to miss. You're not going to hit its face and wound it.

If the deer is coming straight on, I go right for the throat-patch or thereabouts.

If you can miss a deer's neck, you can certainly miss a vital shot. I think it's a great place to shoot a deer. There is as much potential for a wounded deer by going for the shoulder, and sliding a bit too far back in the paunch, as there is for a non-fatal wound with a neck shot.

That said, you MUST know your gun and -- as Clint said -- your limitations. I know everyone won't agree, but that's the way I see it. ;)

[bearmgc]

Pronghorn are not susceptible to CWD. Sadly though, they recently found a moose infected with CWD in Wyoming.

[KMBRTAC45]

I've been deer hunting for about 20 years. I was taught by my stepdad to shoot neck shots, never missed or had to chase my deer, DRT! The only family member who misses is my stepbrother, but when a buck comes in he gets buck fever and shakes like a palm tree in a hurrican:D .

Oh yeah, I use a Marlin 336sc 30-30Win. I hunt in the deep woods of the U.P. of Michigan so long shots don't need to be made(75-150 yards).

[Smokey Joe]

Bearmgc--Thx for info on Pronghorn. Where'd you get the info? I hadn't thought pronghorns would be susceptible to CWD, because they are not in the deer family--i.e. not closely related to deer. But haven't found an authoritative statement to that effect.

Moose and elk, however, ARE in the deer family, hence it is not surprising (tho' unfortunate!) that they would be found to have CWD. Likewise any other critters that have branching, annually shed antlers. Sika deer and red stags come to mind--they'd pick up CWD if it was in their area.

[killzone]

the picture will not upload/!!!

[Thin Black Line]

Pronghorn are not susceptible to CWD.

Source please. If cows, deer, even squirrels, can have this, why not them?
It might be a matter that they haven't been infected yet as opposed to
actually being "not susceptible." Big difference.

[steveracer]

I was taught to shoot them there. When I hunt with a single shot rifle, I want the only round I have readily available to kill him NOW. The neck has done that for me for about 16 years.

[bigcim]

what do you guys do when you paralyze one to finally kill it

[Vern Humphrey]

what do you guys do when you paralyze one to finally kill it
It's been my experience that a hit in the Central Nerverous System (CNS) -- that is brain and spine -- is usually fatal. Barring that, the coup de grace is administed with a hunting knife, usually by cutting the throat.

[Thin Black Line]

what do you guys do when you paralyze one to finally kill it

Try a shot further up on the neck with a 12g slug. The shock alone from
a 1+ oz hunk of lead passing through the flesh will cause blood to stop
flowing to the brain if it actually doesn't smash the upper spinal cord and
resonate along the medulla oblongata halting all autonomic function. Either
way, don't fret, it's dead.

You're more likely to see a gut-shot deer trying to scramble around with
paralyzed rear legs. Go for a neck shot and not a knife if you want to
come home with all your teeth. :D

[steveracer]

well, it was gonna sound like this: "Try a heavy bullet under the back of the jaw, about 1/4 down the neck, and you'll either have a spectacularly dead deer, or you'll miss altogether. More humane either way."
You get the picture.

[bigcim]

what yardage are we talking here i hunt the mojave seeing a deer 300+ is typical

[Art Eatman]

Anything much beyond 100 to 150 yards, I'll not take a shot at the neck, but at the boiler room...

:), Art

[bigcim]

al right so im not crazy feeling uncomfortable shooting a neck shot at 300

[Poppy270]

Never mind the neck,go for the lungs,big target,won't go far.

[Art Eatman]

bigcim, maybe one way to look at it is to figure out your limit on hitting a two-inch POINT. For a neck shot, that point doesn't allow much leeway. On a chest shot, you can (in your imagination) move that point around some three or four inches and still be plenty good enough for a clean kill.

I like the neck shot, distance and personal confidence permitting, because I can then field dress the silly thing without getting so messy and bloody. :) If I bust Bambi in the boiler room, there's all that blood as soon as I cut the diaphragm. Yuck. :D Hey, I'm for neat and clean at all times...

Art

[KMBRTAC45]

well, it was gonna sound like this: "Try a heavy bullet under the back of the jaw, about 1/4 down the neck, and you'll either have a spectacularly dead deer, or you'll miss altogether. More humane either way."
You get the picture

That reminds me of the deer I shot 3 yrs ago. I was just pulling the trigger and the deer took a step back, I ended up hitting right behind the jaw bone on the right side and it came out the left eye. Needless to say the deer wen't nowhere but down.

[BIGJACK]

Many years ago when I was somewhat of a meat hunter and "one of" and usually the only one hunting on Giles Island accross the Mississippi River from Natchez, ms (now a nationally renouned hunting reserve) I shot lung shots only, with a 30-06. The deer would run about 75 yards leaving a good blood trail. However, when I came home from the military there were several people hunting there, including a dog hunting group, and if you let one run 75 yards it was a good bet that somebody else would be looking at him when you got there.:eek: Some times these renegades would shoot up in the air or into the ground and claim to have shot the deer. :evil:
The results were that I started shooting neck and head shots if possible . Remember back in those days we stalked um, as "tipped around in the woods hoping to catch um either laying down or feeding," However, most shots were at deer jumped from the bed, and in the arse.:neener: