I just watched "Red Dawn" again


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Trebor
August 13, 2006, 01:52 AM
My wife is out of town so I decided to stay up late and watch some movies this weekend. I just finished watching "Red Dawn." Man, what a time capsule. Everything about it just screams "1980's." From the Cold War scenario, to the early 80's actors at the start of their careers (Patrick Swaze, Charlie Sheen, Jennifer Grey, Lea Thompson) to the clothes and hairstyles. Back then the basic premise of the movie, while not exactly plausible, was certainly more believable then it would be today.

And of course, theres the guns. There's the AK-47's, other AK-47's modded to look like AK-74's, RPK's, RPD's, Soviet heavy machine guns (although I think one was a vismodded M-60) and Charlie Sheen's Colt Single Action Army. There are even FN FAL's in a few scenes.

Watching the movie again is like visiting with an old friend. I'd trade today's Western world vs. Islamic Fundamentalism for the old Cold War in a heartbeat. MAD worked out in the end, after all, didn't it?

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nico
August 13, 2006, 01:57 AM
I saw it for the first time about a month ago. I thought it was pretty decent, but the part about how the Russians came through the Mexican border made me chuckle. It was almost prophetic.

Trebor
August 13, 2006, 02:00 AM
Oh, I forgot to mention that I figured that watching the movie would be a good time to check to see if all the Bulgarian AK mags I recently bought would lock solidly into my SAR 2. I resisted the urge to carve into the stock like Robert does in the movie.

NCBUSA
August 13, 2006, 04:09 AM
I was 12 when I first saw the movie. I can say that my,...well, interests, started. It was my first exposue to a "self reliance" type theme and I heeded the message well over the years.

The prepetual boyscout,
Chris

DirtyBrad
August 13, 2006, 04:25 AM
First PG-13 movie, wasn't it?

I just finished watching War of the Worlds (the new one) and was thinking how every band of hideouts in an apocalyptic America would be called Wolverines.

Anyone see C. Thomas Howell on "24" this past season? He looks like he spent the last 15 years in a Russian prison camp.

WeedWhacker
August 13, 2006, 05:33 AM
You do realize that said movie glorifies "terrorism", aka guerilla warfare?

I first saw that movie about two years ago, and once I saw the scene with the American chick taking a picnic basket into the police station, I busted out laughing. The very thing demonized every night during the news was good ol' American entertainment on the silver screen not all that long ago.

Of course, that realization doesn't justify or excuse the current crop of middle-eastern/Islamist scumbuckets' behaviour...

Gator
August 13, 2006, 06:42 AM
You do realize that said movie glorifies "terrorism", aka guerilla warfare?

Sure it glorifies guerrilla war, but guerrilla war is not terrorism!

strambo
August 13, 2006, 06:56 AM
Guerrilla warefare still targets occupying forces-soldiers and maybe police. Terrorism targets innocent civilians. When insurgents use an IED on a HMMWV, it could be called guerrilla warefare. When they blow up a Shia mosque, school children or behead civilian contractors trying to re-build a country, it's terrorism. If Swayze and crew killed some guys building a barracks for the Russians to live in or blew up an Eastern Orthodox church, that would have been terrorism.

Smith357
August 13, 2006, 07:03 AM
I don't ever remember the "Wolverines" targeting innocent civilians in that movie. To the best of my recolection every action was a taken against a valid military target. Please remind me where the partisans target civilians in that flick!

WeedWhacker
August 13, 2006, 07:14 AM
So, innocent civilians never visit police stations, eh? Oh, wait... the Wolverines were using them there newfangled smart bombs which only hurt the bad guys! ;) I think it's still pretty clear that my point is a good one. :)

Smith357
August 13, 2006, 07:54 AM
Yes they do, but it from what I remeber the civilians were not the target the commie police were the target. As any soldier knows sometimes in war there is unintend collateral damage. During the last shootout at the train station a stray bullet from the muzzle of a partisans rifle may have even killed a child, that does not equate with terrorism, that would be the sad fact of war. Would you like to try again?

MadMercS55
August 13, 2006, 08:24 AM
I bought Red Dawn awhile ago on DVD for around $8. I loved the movie when I was younger and watching it now makes it even better. Granted the invasion scenario is somewhat far fetched, but it still made for a good story.
And yes, the Wolverines never directly targeted civilians, collateral damage aside, they were trying to free them and get the imprisoned civvies to rally behind them and fight the invading commies.

Zen21Tao
August 13, 2006, 08:47 AM
I just had to chime in on this guarilla warfare=terrorism nonsense. The key to terrorism, as others have said, is that innocent civillians are the ACTUAL TARGET. This is very different from innocent civillians being collateral damage. We can see this now in the mideast. When Hezzbolah lobs rockets into Isreal with not regard for where they land, that is terrorism. When Hezzbolah puts rocket launchers on civillians propety and Isreal targets the launchers, civillian deaths are collateral damage. The problem is that too many cowards hide behing women and children then cry attrocity when they (the cowards) are target and women and children die as a result.

saltydog
August 13, 2006, 08:58 AM
Granted the movie was a little far fetched but I do miss the 80's, the women and their hair styles back then:(

Tom Servo
August 13, 2006, 09:38 AM
Sure it glorifies guerrilla war, but guerrilla war is not terrorism!
Right you are. Our country was liberated through "guerrilla war." Of course, the Clinton administration made that (along with "militia") into a derogatory word.

A few years ago, I played Grand Theft Auto. It takes place in the '80's, and while driving a car, there's a radio station playing. One of the commercials is for a gun-shop that offers "free screenings of the documentary Red Dawn!" Gave me quite a chuckle.

jerkface11
August 13, 2006, 09:56 AM
I just finished watching War of the Worlds (the new one) and was thinking how every band of hideouts in an apocalyptic America would be called Wolverines.

I watched that movie with my dad a couple months ago. We couldn't stop laughing when the ONLY car in the world that still ran was an early 90's plymoth voyager. I guess whoever picked the car was trying to be funny.

Sharpdogs
August 13, 2006, 10:07 AM
I rented it a few months ago from my local video store. As I was checking it out the clerk said it was her favorite movie of all time :) I wonder if she has an AK at home. Sometimes I miss the 80's, especially the gas prices.

No_Brakes23
August 13, 2006, 12:23 PM
Sure it glorifies guerrilla war, but guerrilla war is not terrorism!

I agree wholheartedly, but our government and the right wing side of our media, (The left might do so to just out of ignorance,) frequently refer to guerrilla acts as terrorism. The distinction is the targeting/wounding of non-combatants, but our .gov wants to eat its cake and have it to when it calls them terrorists out of one side of its mouth and combatants out of the other side.

IEDs blowing up under HMMWVs are something I hate, but they are guerrilla warfare, not terrorism. Suicide bombs that target anything but military targets are terrorism, not guerrilla warfare. It is a thin line sometimes, but an important distinction.

loadedround
August 13, 2006, 02:36 PM
One of my favorite movies!

308nato
August 13, 2006, 09:53 PM
I enjoyed it when it came out and the part that sticks in my mind
is when the Cuban Comander told his men to check the police dept.
for all the gun records so he could find out who has the guns in town.

hankdatank1362
August 13, 2006, 10:04 PM
Wasn't it the Japanese General in the movie " Tora Tora Tora" who, when questioned by one of his subordinates as to why they don't invade mainland America, replies : "To invade America is crazy. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."

Kind of makes you wonder. If this sort of thing were to happen, really happen, in today's world, if all the cops, armed forces, right-wing militant gun-nut types;) , gat-wielding gangbanger homies, good ol' boys with deer rifles, and everyone else would band together to repel the invasion?

Greg L
August 13, 2006, 10:22 PM
The same scenario would be over pretty quickly these days for the good guys up in the mountains. Thermal imaging has come a long way :(

(one of my & the lowercase L's favorite movies)

Gordon
August 13, 2006, 10:28 PM
If it's come so far where is Bin Ladins head?:scrutiny:

the 22 junkie
August 13, 2006, 10:53 PM
In the white houses freezer, of course, waiting to be pulled out in time for the 2004 elec-, oh wait, I guess the lefties were wrong. In all reality, hes probably dead and buried. :neener:

Ndenway
August 13, 2006, 10:55 PM
I can remember seeing it in the theater, and later when it made it to the drive inn in 84',

when CT Howell shoots the rpg into the chopper the theater erupted in cheers and applaudes, well everytime the wolverines attacked the russians and cubans there were cheers and applaudes,

everyone was making so much noise we couldn't hear the movie, the mgt. turned the movie off, lights came on and a dude came in and ask if everyone wanted the volume turned up, everybody yells "YEAH!",

dude says OK, lights go back down and the volume goes up, and man it was loud, and no amount of cheering drowned out the sound,

when it was over and we walked out, everyone was talking LOUD, my ears were ringing,

a couple of months later when it made it to the drive inn, same reaction, people were honking horns, cheering and yelling,

it was great, thats the only movie I've ever been to where the audience got into the movie like that,


I still watch it a couple of times a year, and its still entertaining to me, some of the stuff is not too realistic, but hell its a movie,

I don't think hollywood would even consider making a movie like it nowdays.

M2 Carbine
August 13, 2006, 10:56 PM
REDDAWN, on Glock Talk was the jump master, jumper and consultant on the movie. He was Airborne in the 60's but didn't jump in Vietnam. He was a jump instructor and help develop the HALO concept. He survived the accidental opening of his parachute inside and being sucked out of a C-130.

He's a good friend and in the past we talked about shooting the movie. When they were filming the jump sceens the wind was high and the jumpers were blown all over the place. Most of the stuff never made it into the movie. The local people knew what was going on and some got in the spirit. One jumper landed in a yard, pointed his AK at the home owners and they put up their hands.:D

The helicopters were Petroleum Helicopters Inc Pumas. My company, but I wasn't one of the pilots. With all that junk on them they were hard to fly. You might notice, they didn't do any fancy maneuvering.:)

REDDAWN
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Jerry.jpg

qlajlu
August 13, 2006, 11:15 PM
You've got to admit that the movie really made everyone think about what they might do if TSHTF. I think that the movie might have been a little unrealistic when it was made, but I'm not so sure any more.

Sam
August 13, 2006, 11:37 PM
I live down the road from Las Vegas at teh time and wen up to watch soem of the festivities. Folks up there really got into it and enjoyed having them in town.

Knew a couple of the jumpers, PJs from Kirtland. They seemed to enjoy it too.

Sam

The Guy
August 13, 2006, 11:41 PM
You know, I'm STILL waiting on the sequel!

Or a part two.

Screen play by Nightcrawler and Corriea.

Staring various semi-photogenic THR gun folks, showcasing their personal favorite firearms.

Go-go THR productions!

Anyone else game?:D

MudPuppy
August 13, 2006, 11:42 PM
Kind of makes you wonder. If this sort of thing were to happen, really happen, in today's world, if all the cops, armed forces, right-wing militant gun-nut types , gat-wielding gangbanger homies, good ol' boys with deer rifles, and everyone else would band together to repel the invasion?

Out of four hijacked planes on 9/11, one didn't hit it's target. It wasn't the Military, the Police, or our elected leaders that brought it down.

Similar time-frame--and almost as far fetched--but remember "V"? The alien flick where our govenment rolled over to the Chinese or Aliens from another planet or some such? We had better movies when Reagan was president!

zastros
August 13, 2006, 11:56 PM
I was 12 when I first saw the movie. I can say that my,...well, interests, started.

Lea Thompson, Jennifer Grey...;)


BTW it was Patrick Swayze with the single action.

zastros

lawson
August 14, 2006, 12:17 AM
one of my favorites. i was watching it the other day with my roommates, and the cynical one said what good would it do for civilians to fight against an army... i made the point that they'd die fighting for their own land (not just their country, but quite literally their homes), and if everyone did it, it would make a difference.

"all that hate's gonna burn you up, kid"

"it'll keep me warm"

DoubleTapDrew
August 14, 2006, 12:40 AM
That's been one of my favorite movies of all time. In spite of all the NFA restrictions I think that movie shows what will happen if the SHTF. You gather weapons off the dead and eventually you are equally armed.
I always bang my head when there is a movie of some dude running around killing guys with his bare hands or some garbage handgun and never takes the weapons off the enemys he's killed. Uhh yeah that guy's got a M4 but i'll stick with my Seecamp. Idjiots.
Guerilla warfare may be a bad word to the leftist media but that's how we won this country.
For the people equating it to middle east you do have to remember in the movie they were trying to take back their hometown. The same tactics probably work in other areas but if you are defending your home it's a whole different ballgame. Winner takes all and losing is not an option. That was pretty worrysome when the colonel? told them to go the sporting good stores and get the form 4473's to find out who's got guns.

Langenator
August 14, 2006, 12:44 AM
With a good knowledge of the land, they could have remained hidden. Colorado mountains are full of old mines which would keep them hidden even from thermal imagers. Now, given enough time and troops, the Sovs could have searched and sealed them all, but that would require a lot of both. And in the winter, they could use snow caves-thick enough snow will block the thermals, too.

cbsbyte
August 14, 2006, 01:21 AM
It is funny how preceptions change when one gets older. I saw the movie the first time in the late 80s at a friends house and though it was a great action film. A bit over the top but that was to be expected from a summer pop corn movie. I watched it on Tv about two years ago, and my preception of it drasticily changed . It is not a good film. It has terrible dialogue, poor acting and is brimming with overly zealous patriotic right wing nonsense. No wonder in was made in the 80s during the Reagan years. It probably was paid for by the DOD and Republicans.

Noc
August 14, 2006, 01:24 AM
M2 Carbine- Thanks for the info on the Pumas. If you look carefully, you can see the Puma's cockpit through the Hind's "cockpit" glass. I was wondering what they were...

The T-72's were also very nicely done. Comparing the all od green T-72 in the film (where the American-Soviet Friendship Center is blown) to line drawings in Weapons and Tactics of the Soviet Army reveals a very accurate rendition of the 72. The road wheels are a bit different, and the smoke launchers look a touch hokey, but everything else is pretty good. An article at Wiki even states that two CIA agents showed up on the set wanting to know where they got the tank from.

Good movie all the way around. Heavily influenced my childhood.

NineseveN
August 14, 2006, 01:41 AM
That's a fun flick, but Ndenway's story makes it even better! Good story man. :D

kengrubb
August 14, 2006, 01:44 AM
BTW it was Patrick Swayze with the single action.
Yep, and I believe it was a Ruger Blackhawk.

kengrubb
August 14, 2006, 01:54 AM
brimming with overly zealous patriotic right wing nonsense
Umm, almost everyone dies in the movie. Dirty Dozen and Private Ryan are about the only other war flicks I can think of where so many of the main characters are killed. You cannot seriously believe it glorifies war, can you?

It probably was paid for by the DOD and Republicans.
Written and directed by John Milius. Production companies were United Artists and Valkyrie Films.

No_Brakes23
August 14, 2006, 04:12 AM
AVENGE ME BOYZE! UH-VENGE MEEEEEEEEE!

Anyone see the South Park episode where they lampoon the AARP and parody Red Dawn? Awesome.

I was pretty excited when I found RD on DVD. It does have cheesy lines, but it is still a good story.

The Cold Dead Hands scene was good. Too bad he wasn't at slide lock.

As for the 4473 issue, I would like to think that if we were in the middle of an invasion, the FFL would burn them provided he could.

M2 Carbine
August 14, 2006, 04:27 AM
M2 Carbine- Thanks for the info on the Pumas. If you look carefully, you can see the Puma's cockpit through the Hind's "cockpit" glass. I was wondering what they were...

PHI was stuck with those Pumas under a long term lease and they were too big for many offshore platforms and VERY expensive.
We were glad to put them to work on the movie.

Later, I guess it was those two birds, crashed in the Gulf of Mexico. One went over the side from a oil drilling rig heliport, killing all aboard (19) except the co-pilot and one hand.

As I was flying (a Bell 206) I heard the pilot of the second Puma yelling Mayday as they were going down. The transmission was freezing up. The pilot, and I think, three others lived.
I don't recall if we had just those two Pumas or also a couple more.

That gives you chills.
I didn't know who it was at the time but I was flying my 206 and heard another Bell 205 (Huey) from my base go down. The tail boom broke off at about 700 feet and as the helicopter nosed over on it's back the pilot keyed the mike but didn't say anything. There were nine passengers and I heard them screaming. Everyone was killed.

Just before that I was offered the Bell 205 checkout and I refused. If I had accepted the checkout I would have been flying that ship.

kengrubb
August 14, 2006, 04:40 AM
As for the 4473 issue, I would like to think that if we were in the middle of an invasion, the FFL would burn them provided he could.Foreign soldiers entering a gunshop? Talk about shell casings littering the floor and locked slides.

danurve
August 14, 2006, 10:51 AM
Best line in the movie: "You the honcho sport?"
Best sence: ... "Fry `em" ...

Dumb scene: I just crashed my F-15, so I'll take a nap in the same spot - yeah.

Funny thing about this movie; is not actually anything from the movie. But how literal some of you guys are about junk from hollywood, cold war era or not.

Glock_10mm
August 14, 2006, 09:01 PM
Best movie ever...probably first movie that led me to my survivalist thinking.

I also really liked Toy Soldiers!

Both shaped my younger years quite dramatically!

mljdeckard
August 14, 2006, 09:10 PM
Gol to IMDB, and look up John Milius, see everything else he has written and directed. He wrote the "Do you feel lucky?" line too. He's probably the most gun friendly guy in Hollywood.

I found myself fantasizing about where I would run to.

Double Naught Spy
August 14, 2006, 10:17 PM
I saw it for the first time about a month ago. I thought it was pretty decent, but the part about how the Russians came through the Mexican border made me chuckle. It was almost prophetic.

You mean, historic, not prophetic. Mexico invaded the US via the border more than once and the border was patrolled during both World Wars because it was known as a potential point of invasion.

Panthera Tigris
August 14, 2006, 10:41 PM
I loved the movie because the heroes were ordinary civilians like me, and not police, FBI agents, CIA, military, etc or other people that would get special permission to carry their weapons and use them in defense.

Admiral Yamamoto was the one who said there would be a gun behind every blade of grass if Japan tried to invade the U.S.

Don Gwinn
August 14, 2006, 11:09 PM
John Milius also designed "The Octagon" used in the Ultimate Fighting Championship and worked on their broadcast.

His contributions to American culture are overwhelming.

Shweboner
August 14, 2006, 11:43 PM
"If it's come so far where is Bin Ladins head?"




Sitting in an upscale apartment in New York City, awaiting the call for his next appearance

joab
August 15, 2006, 12:14 AM
I read somewhere that the single action revolver used was a family heirloom of the director's.
That gun and some others that he owned were in some other movies also.

If you want to find out what character you would be in a SHTF RD moment go here and take the quiz http://quizilla.com/users/TheGreyGhost/quizzes/Which%20Red%20Dawn%20Character%20Are%20You%3F/

The Guy
August 15, 2006, 12:42 AM
Robert Morris, the executer! :evil: Cool cool cool!

Although it said something about the need to seek pshycological help "right now", but 41 % of the people who took the poll were Robert Morris too. I guess it had to do with wanting to shoot the prisoners and such.:D

DoubleTapDrew
August 15, 2006, 12:51 AM
LMAO that quiz is hilarious! Apparently I'm Robert.
The movie isn't meant to win oscars or dazzle everyone with special effects. If you want that kind of stuff watch "the spanish prisoner" or whatever movies they choose for that junk.
I'd like to think if we ever were faced with a serious SHTF situation, at least some of us would do what they did in the movie. Bug out, head for the hills, dig in, and get ready.
P.S.- I sure hope it's not prophetic!

MAKOwner
August 15, 2006, 04:20 AM
Red Dawn is easily my favorite movie of all time. I grew up watching it all the time, which was a crappy VHS copy I taped off TV BTW. The DVD was the first one I purchased and I still watch it a couple times a year. I think it's absolutely phenominal for a 80's movie. Compare it to hollywood action movies from the time (like the hokey Chuck Norris movies, Commando-type movies, etc) and it's darn well done. There aren't very many movies from the 80s that I can even stand (coincidentally one of those is also a John Milius movie) to watch anymore, much less ones that I absolutely love. Red Dawn is a great damn movie... The end monologue and reading of the memorial brings a tear to my eye nearly every damn time, lol...

Lupinus
August 15, 2006, 10:14 AM
I've never seen it :o

But then agian netflix does say it should be here today and dvds arrive when they say they will 99% of the time :D

ID_shooting
August 15, 2006, 10:50 AM
Red Dawn and The Day After make up my most watched 80's movies, at least by me. Great movies, and yes, I have cleaned the AK while watching RD, LOL

"I don't think hollywood would even consider making a movie like it nowdays."

I think "The Patriot" comes close.

Chui
August 15, 2006, 11:00 AM
The invasion premise in the movie came from none other than Russian defector General Kalugin... and still the borders are porous at best. :fire:

Lupinus
August 15, 2006, 11:06 AM
yeah ID the day after was pretty good....not enough gun action though :neener:

kymarkh
August 15, 2006, 11:09 AM
Wow - what a movie! I watched it at Ft. Lewis Washington with about 250 other grunts when it was first released. That was the loudest cheering I've ever heard in a movie theatre. Made me proud to be an American and proud to be a soldier. I still watch it about once a year just to relive my childhood!

buck00
August 15, 2006, 11:49 AM
Great movie! After I saw this film for the first time as a kid, I went out into the woods and dug a fox hole. (I'm not kidding)

Here are two questions:

1. Do you think the Soviet armor invasion across the Bering Strait, as described by Powers Boothe at the campfire, even possible? It would seem logistically this would be a nightmare for any modern army.

2. On a more THR related note, what is the submachine gun the Russian officer uses at the end of the film to kill Charlie Sheen and Patrick Swayze?

default
August 15, 2006, 12:29 PM
I believe the SMG was a Finnish Jati-Matic, seen here. (http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg25-e.htm)

I don't think the scenario in the movie was even remotely plausible, but I've always liked it anyway. Outstanding mock-ups of the Hind-A, Yak-38, and various armored vehicles, fantastic Soviet uniforms, firearms, and gear. In fact, I must emphasize the quality of the Hind-A in the movie. In an age of increasingly laughable Soviet helicopter surrogates in action movies, the makers of Red Dawn did it first and by far best, a truly outstanding job.

444
August 15, 2006, 12:49 PM
I saw that movie, once, when I was a kid on TV (back before HBO and all that). Within the last few months I bought a copy of it out of the discount bin at Wally World mainly because it is mentioned so often on this board. Unlike many on this thread, I actually enjoyed it a lot more this time than I did the first time around.
And, like the others, I got a kick out of the whole Mexican boarder route.

Technosavant
August 15, 2006, 01:41 PM
I think that kind of armor assault would be an impossibility. Far too much distance to cover, opposed or unopposed. Assuming they "prep" our bomber bases with nukes (as in the movie), they would eventually make it here, but it would take months. If we have surviving bases, we'd pick their armored columns apart before they made it across Alaska.

When it comes down to it, the USA is just too much territory to occupy without millions of troops to make it stick. When you figure in the potshots that citizens would take at the occupying forces, it would be the most horrific combination of the worst parts of Vietnam (US experiences) and Afghanistan (USSR experiences) for the attacking force. Even when the Soviet machine was in top shape (which was NOT the case by the 1980s, by most accounts), they wouldn't have been able to do it.

The one thing the movie ignored was sub-launched nukes. In the case of a full-up nuclear assault/invasion, I'd think that a couple Ohio-class subs would put a fairly significant dent in the homefront of the attacking power. That would go a long way to shortening any kind of invasion. When it comes to national survival, you use EVERY tool in the toolbox, no matter that the newspaper headlines might say afterwards.

Ndenway
August 15, 2006, 03:51 PM
NineseveN -That's a fun flick, but Ndenway's story makes it even better! Good story man.

yeah man, that back when everyone in school recieted the pledge of allegance every morning before class and said a prayer before every sporting event,

probably 80% of the people in the theater that day were teenagers,

Doug.38PR
August 15, 2006, 04:02 PM
(Finding the intentionally dumped food on the road) Mmmmmmm. Hmmmmmmm. Ummmmm! Yum yum. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!:what: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Overacting is so amusing

dracphelan
August 15, 2006, 04:16 PM
I remember talking with a retired military intelligence officer, and this scenario came up. He stated that a Soviet defector in the '70s said that they had considered invading across the Bering Straight, but decided not to. At the time our military was at a severa low point, but holding US territory would be impossible due to private firearms ownership.
As an aside, take a look at US communist party goals from early to mid 20th century literature and see how many of them have been attained. :( :banghead:

Technosavant
August 15, 2006, 05:09 PM
dracphelan, from what I have read about Cold War retrospectives on the readiness and condition of our respective militaries:

By the end of the Vietnam War through most of the seventies, the Soviets, although not always technologically superior, probably would have won a force on force battle. Troop morale and equipment on our side was not particularly good.

By the time Reagan's reforms had really taken hold, the Soviets had declined significantly, and our military had taken great strides forward. In the mid 80s when Red Dawn was made, in all reality, the Soviet Union could not have hoped to best us.

joab
August 15, 2006, 06:45 PM
Do you think the Soviet armor invasion across the Bering Strait, as described by Powers Boothe at the campfire, even possible? It would seem logistically this would be a nightmare for any modern army.When Booth was laying out the invasion strategy I remembered hearing it somewhere before. Either in World Studies or from my veteran army intelligence father. Either way I had heard the plan laid out before.

I did a little googling on RedDawn and found that the scenario was actually taken from "CIA and War College studies of weaknesses in Americas defenses at the time."

So someone thought it was feasible

An interesting take on the movie

One amusing scene, which must have been an attempt by John Milius to stick his finger in various eyes, was when a Soviet soldier literally pries a pistol from the cold, dead hand of an American gun owner. Milius is a lifelong member of the National Rifle Association. (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/24110/red_dawn_a_politcially_incorrect_vision.html)

DoubleTapDrew
August 16, 2006, 12:34 AM
I think that the point many have made about the civilians putting up resistance is why we like the movie so much. I think we'd all snach up the BOBs and put up a heck of a fight.
How about this: any gun related mistakes in the movie (aside from armor and aircraft)? I'll have to watch it again (yes I have it on VHS too, haha) but off the top of my head I can't think of any gross flubs.

kengrubb
August 16, 2006, 01:01 AM
any gun related mistakes in the movie
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087985/goofs
http://www.moviemistakes.com/film1055
http://www.continuitycorner.com/Rfilm/00371.htm
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/red_dawn/about.php
http://www.nitpickers.com/movies/repository.cgi?pg=t&sp=i&tt=76485

DoubleTapDrew
August 17, 2006, 12:18 AM
Holy cow! Ken gets the "on the ball" award!
I'll have to watch it this weekend and watch for all those.

kengrubb
August 17, 2006, 01:24 AM
Not really. Just proves 2 things.
1) I'm pretty good with google
2) The Internet is a strange and wonderful place

Logan5
August 17, 2006, 01:52 AM
No offense to the Air Force, but what got me when the movie came out was that the Wolverines got an (the?) Air Force Colonel F-15 ace who was also very well versed on light infantry tactics and irregular forces.

I had a full bird Air Force Colonel (retired) as my team leader during the relief effort last year, and now I'm a believer. I could write a novel about what I learned in Texas and Louisiana. (maybe I will, at some point.)

All that aside, Red Dawn was interesting in it's own right. John Millius has done lots of movies, but he hasn't exactly gained the credibility he deserves as an artist in Hollywood. Plausibility and politics are fun topics of discussion for us, but from interviews and other material I've read, the man sees himself as a storyteller in the vein of Louis L'amour.

I can't see where he's failed; from Conan to The Rough Riders he has produced some really gripping and entertaining stories. I personally have been entertained, and want to see more of his work. There is no shortage of new movies, but there is a shortage of good stories, and I think John Millius has a gift for creating movies I'd like to see. Snakes on a Plane isn't remotely plausible, but we're not talking about that one; no one cares. Red Dawn started conversations when it came out.

Shane333
August 17, 2006, 12:18 PM
Hehe...took the quiz, and I'm Jed Eckert.

AJ Dual
August 17, 2006, 12:49 PM
No offense to the Air Force, but what got me when the movie came out was that the Wolverines got an (the?) Air Force Colonel F-15 ace who was also very well versed on light infantry tactics and irregular forces.

I had a full bird Air Force Colonel (retired) as my team leader during the relief effort last year, and now I'm a believer. I could write a novel about what I learned in Texas and Louisiana. (maybe I will, at some point.)


I guess that makes sense.

I would imagine that they teach a lot of military history and theroy in all the acadamies, and if you're smart and driven enough to make it as a fighter pilot, you can probably put together the rest on your own...

Also, I'd have to imagine that any pilot who'd ever be tasked with any kind of CAS would have to know something about ground deployments, no?

Carl N. Brown
August 17, 2006, 02:09 PM
Red Dawn reminded of C.M. Kornbluth's
Not This August which I read in the 1950s.

In Not This August, Red China invaded the West Coast.
USSR invaded the East Coast, and they dived the US
up along the Mississippi River. As I remember, the
US population were mostly cowed sheeple, with some
Quislings and some Maquis guerilla types.

RED DAWN made me look up the definition of defilade.:D

AND the girl who planted a bomb where the Red soldiers
were gathered was a freedom fighter, not a terrorist:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=43605&stc=1&d=1155837732

M2 Carbine
August 17, 2006, 02:54 PM
I guess that makes sense.

I would imagine that they teach a lot of military history and theroy in all the acadamies, and if you're smart and driven enough to make it as a fighter pilot, you can probably put together the rest on your own...

Also, I'd have to imagine that any pilot who'd ever be tasked with any kind of CAS would have to know something about ground deployments, no?

There is also some amount of people with mutable service time to.
I was a USMC Sergeant in Amtracs in the 50's and a Army/NG helicopter pilot in the 60's. So I had a working knowledge of infantry, armored, artillery and air tactics and that was as just a Warrant Officer.

I met a number of people, of different ranks, that had been in other services and other jobs.

Checkman
August 17, 2006, 03:11 PM
Fun movie. Boy is that the right way to describe this movie?
Anyway I like Milius. Not all of his movies are very good, but they are always very watchable.

Red Dawn and Conan I consider to be his most melodramatic movies, but enertaining.

The Wind and the Lion, Rough Riders and Dillinger are his best films.

Farewell to the King with Nick Nolte had it's moments, but is was a very uneven film. Milius effort at filming literature I think.

Flight of the Intruder was a dissapointment.

Forget the name of his surfing movie ( Big Wednesday?)from 1978, but many say that it was his most personal film. Based on his life.

I won't go into all the movies that he has produced and written over the years. But Magnum Force and Uncommon Valor are great movies.

bakerj
August 17, 2006, 05:37 PM
Set up the TIVO to record it and watched last night. I love that flick!

AJ Dual
August 17, 2006, 05:41 PM
So,

Who here got all teary at the end where they show the aftermath, where the fence, the plaque and the flag show that they made a monument out of "Freedom Rock"?

As goofy as the movie was at times, that's right up there with the ending of Saving Private Ryan at the Normandy allied cemetary.

Stevie-Ray
August 17, 2006, 09:44 PM
Flight of the Intruder was a dissapointment.
I'll have to disagree. I think it Milius's best film with the possible exception of the one in subject. The Spad scenes are some of the best from any movie, including the "broken arrow" scene from We Were Soldiers.. The Intruder slowly exploding overhead was in itself worth the price of admission. I read the book before I ever saw the movie and loved it, but I can also say I was thrilled with the movie. A movie doesn't need to be true to the book to be well done.

Red Dawn will always be a classic to me.

JNG
August 24, 2006, 04:56 PM
The upcoming RTS game “World In Conflict” puts you in command of the Soviet or American military’s after the Soviets invade in 1989. The game trailer looks great!




http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7314366585672276684&q=world+in+conflict

No_Brakes23
August 28, 2006, 03:21 AM
I'll have to disagree. I think it Milius's best film with the possible exception of the one in subject.

I agree, FotI was quite watchable. Although I am biased because I am an Ordie, and I loved the clips of the Mk-15-finned Snakeye bombs opening up. Seeing the A-1 and A-6 in action didn't hurt either. Good scenes, there. I'd like to see more Coonts books put to film.

"Drop on my pos, SAndie!" "I'd do it for you!"

And of course the best line from the movie:

"Fighter pilots make movies, attack pilots make history."

tanksoldier
August 28, 2006, 07:18 AM
Nope. You're 100% incorrect.

If a defender allows civilians onto/ into a valid military target it is the defender's responsibility if they are injured or killed, likewise if he places a military target near civilians. For example, we allow civilians to work in the Pentagon, which is a valid target. If they are injured or killed, it is our fault, not the attackers. The 9/11 attack on the Pentagon would have been perfectly fine (from a Law of War standpoint) if the attackers had used an empty airplane.

Combattants are required to minimize civilian casualties WHERE POSSIBLE without impacting their military mission.
Also, in the same vein military commanders are allowed to execute POWs if maintaining and guarding them, in the commander's judgement, impacts their mission.

The only rules of war the Wolverines disobeyed was not wearing a uniform or distinctive insignia and failing to bear their arms openly at all times (when they snuck into town unarmed to see what was up, and a few of the bombings.) Other than that they did a remarkable job of fighting a "clean" insurgency... in Hollywood, of course.

Just because someone is an insurgent doesn't make them a terrorist.


So, innocent civilians never visit police stations, eh? Oh, wait... the Wolverines were using them there newfangled smart bombs which only hurt the bad guys! ;) I think it's still pretty clear that my point is a good one. :)

As a professional Soldier I can live with that...

Robert Morris...-The Executioner-...You are loyal and brave(to a fault) but you are also a psychotic killing-machine. Seek professional help NOW! ;-)

As a professional Soldier I can live with that...

DRZinn
August 28, 2006, 10:00 AM
The only rules of war the Wolverines disobeyed was not wearing a uniform or distinctive insignia ...Actually, under the Geneva Conventions they are not required to wear uniforms if they are not a military force:3. In order to promote the protection of the civilian population from the effects of hostilities, combatants are obliged to distinguish themselves from the civilian population while they are engaged in an attack or in a military operation preparatory to an attack. Recognizing, however, that there are situations in armed conflicts where, owing to the nature of the hostilities an armed combatant cannot so distinguish himself, he shall retain his status as a combatant, provided that, in such situations, he carries his arms openly:

(a) during each military engagement, and (b) during such time as he is visible to the adversary while he is engaged in a military deployment preceding the launching of an attack in which he is to participate.(Geneva Protocol 1, Article 44, Section 3)

There are a few other places where a similar point is made concerning the status of, essentially, militia forces.

MartinBrody
August 28, 2006, 09:33 PM
Great movie, also gotta love The Terminator & Predator!

Hacker15E
August 29, 2006, 05:19 AM
RE: Flight of the Intruder...yes, the movie is not true to the book, and it's a little hokey in areas, but it's my favorite military aviation movie.

What I like best, though, is that the SAM and AAA fire is pretty realistic looking, although the ground shots are obviously scale models.

The shots of the Skyraiders are worth the price of admission alone.

Checkman
August 29, 2006, 02:54 PM
My favorite military aviation movie is still 12 O'Clock High with Gregory Peck. My second favorite is Dr. Strangelove. :rolleyes:

Stevie-Ray
August 29, 2006, 07:49 PM
"Drop on my pos, SAndie!" "I'd do it for you!"I can even remember feeling the pain in the Spad driver's voice when he replied, "That's a roger."

mmike87
August 29, 2006, 09:43 PM
Great movie. True to the traditional American spirit.

OEF_VET
August 29, 2006, 11:31 PM
Also, I'd have to imagine that any pilot who'd ever be tasked with any kind of CAS would have to know something about ground deployments, no?

The USAF routinely assigns ground-attack pilots to US Army units, as Tactical Air Controllers, or TAC's. Along with E-TAC's (Enlisted TAC's), they make up TAC-P's (TAC-parties). These guys serve as the ground commanders liasion with the people providing the close-air-support. They also advise the ground commander on the best ways to implement Air Force assets into his plans. TAC-P's are essential elements in today's joint combat operations. We had some excellent TAC's and E-TAC's assigned to us during Operation Anaconda.

The Marine Corps provides the ground commander with ANGLICO's (Army-Navy Ground LIasion COmpanies), which do the same job, but with a Naval tint to it.

DRZinn
August 29, 2006, 11:41 PM
Ummm...

Air/Naval Gunfire LIaison COmpany

Creeping Incrementalism
August 29, 2006, 11:44 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=44127&d=1156909191

WOLVERINES!

http://www.lifelibertyetc.com/images/products/Wolverines_Logo_m.jpg

http://www.lifelibertyetc.com/

Nightfa11
August 30, 2006, 12:37 AM
In a rare moment of kindness, our drill instructors let us see the movie for motivational purposes (Marines, San Diego, September/October 1985). I enjoyed it quite a bit then and think I'll queue it up to see again.

cracked butt
August 30, 2006, 01:15 AM
I haven't seen the movie in probably 20 years.

BTW: if you liked the movie and like to play video games, try Operation Flashpoint.:D

OEF_VET
August 30, 2006, 01:40 AM
DocZinn, you're correct. I'm blaming it on a combination of Someztimers and having only actually worked with ANGLICO's once in 8 years. The memory fades over time.

DRZinn
August 30, 2006, 03:04 AM
Well, looking it up to be sure I was correct, I saw that ANGLICO's had been reactivated. News to me.

joab
August 30, 2006, 08:55 PM
I couldn't find any reference to the Wolverine T-shirt in C I's post but I now own an INFIDEL T-Shirt and some What Would Reagan Do bumper stickers

Creeping Incrementalism
August 30, 2006, 09:33 PM
I couldn't find any reference to the Wolverine T-shirt in C I's post but I now own an INFIDEL T-Shirt and some What Would Reagan Do bumper stickers

Dude, are you blind?

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=44175&d=1156987777

There's another style below that one, too.

I haven't seen the movie in probably 20 years.

BTW: if you liked the movie and like to play video games, try Operation Flashpoint.

I played that game to death, then modded it to make the firearms more realistic and design my own missions, then played it even more.

Sharpdogs
August 30, 2006, 09:59 PM
Thanks for that link. I am getting a new t-shirt.

joab
August 30, 2006, 11:03 PM
It's called scrolling impaired, thank you very much.

So that's another $20 towards my wardrobe

OpFlash
August 30, 2006, 11:23 PM
BTW: if you liked the movie and like to play video games, try Operation Flashpoint.

I'll second that motion! :D

I STILL have fun designing and playing missions with my son and others. The ECP mod is excellent. Stay tuned for Armed Assault, hopefully by Christmas.

If you enjoyed reading about "I just watched "Red Dawn" again" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!