Post your stories of people trying to do straw purchases/other illegal buys.


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Crosshair
August 13, 2006, 06:19 AM
A few days ago we had someone try to make a straw purchase at the Wal-Mart I work for. A man had a Mossberg Plinkster on layaway and came to buy it. He paid off the layaway and want to do the 4473. NICS denied the sale right off the bat. The man was "shocked" and my co-worker gave the man the info so he could dispute the denial if it was an error. Now here is where the stupid starts to show. The man says he doesn't need the info, he will just have his brother come in and buy it. Of course my co-worker tells him that that is illegal and to get in contact with NICS to get the error corrected. The man says OK, goes and cancels the layaway and leaves. My co-worker thinks that mabee the man just wasn't up to the US gun laws, but lets our manager know anyway just in case they try a straw buy.

OK, not even 3 hours this large family comes in and lo and behold they want to buy a Mossberg Plinkster without even asking any questions, looking at what else we carry, even taking a look at the gun in the display case. (Note: The Mossberg Plinkster may be cheap, but we do not sell many of them at my store. Most people buy Marlins, Rugers, or Henrys.) They talk to the same co-worker who denied the first sale. Alarm bells are going off already and my co-worker asked to see ID so they can photocopy it for records. Now we get into, "Tales of the Criminaly Stupid".

Not only does the man wanting to buy the gun have the same last name as the person we denied the sale to earlier, they have THE SAME ADDRESS. (Guess they didn't think that we saved denied 4473s.) Co-worker gets the manager who confronts them. They deny any relationship dispite the evidence and say they live in an apartment and it must be a neighbor. Sorry, my town is not that big, (50,000) that address is a single family home and nowhere near any apartments. (I got to look at both 4473's after they left.) By the way, if it was an apartment, then why isn't there an apartment number on your ID or 4473 sir? The manager and co-worker knew they where lying. Manager told them (In nicer terms) to get the hell out of the store before he called the police on them. They then unsuccessfuly tried to play the race card and finaly left. (They where Hispanic) Manager then wrote a note telling everyone not to sell to anyone with that address and/or last name.

I don't know if the first man was a criminal or if it was an error. But he certainly isn't getting it from us now, regardless of what NICS says.

Anyone else have stories like this? Do they really think we are that stupid?:fire:

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mrwiggins
August 13, 2006, 07:29 AM
seems trivial and stupid. as long as someone is 18 i'll do a private party sale. (straw purchase) i thought was getting a gun for a criminal or someone under 18

WeedWhacker
August 13, 2006, 07:33 AM
The only folks who should ever be able to attempt "illegal" firearm purchases would have a wee bit of trouble getting to K-Mart because they are locked up in jail/prison. If you've paid your debt to society, then you're a citizen again. This half-assed "prison without walls" bullcrap is maddening. If a man's a criminal, lock him up, for Pete's sake. Else, leave him be.

An added benefit to allowing free citizens (i.e. not behind bars) to purchase firearms is that NICS instantly becomes obsolete, and hence no more mystery "you can't have a gun not gonna tell you why" black box.

Possible exceptions might be made for kids under 18... but then if the parents deign to allow the kid a firearm, that should be their decision. You know, like most parental decisions. Of times past.

Phenom
August 13, 2006, 09:14 AM
I personally know a woman who did straw purchases for her husband with two DV convictions. The woman is a trouble maker who absolutely isn't happy unless she has started a fight. The husband on average drinks three pints of vodka and three 30-packs a beer a week. They have proven to me that they don't need anything remotely dangerous. I have called every gunshop within a 75 mile radious and told them to be on the look out.

Apple a Day
August 13, 2006, 09:50 AM
I have made several straw purchases over the years and even more mulch purchases. Occassionally I make topsoil purchases but that's almost always in the spring before planting a new garden.
Do we really want to post food for the trolls and ammo for the anti's? Think about that before you start regaling the entire planet with stories of illegal purchases. :scrutiny:

venerable yorgi
August 13, 2006, 10:00 AM
i was at a going out of business sale of a gun shop and 4 guys were admiring the Glock 30s which were on sale for 439.95- a pretty good price- I gathered from their discussions that they were probably federal agents who were from out of town with a local agent. They wanted to buy a couple of the Glocks but were told that they couldnt buy them with an out of state driver license.
The local guy said " Well I'll buy it for you." At that point 3 other customers who were standing at the counter all chimed in " No, you cant, thats a straw purchase". That was the end of that sale. Sorry guys...

gunsmith
August 13, 2006, 10:49 AM
I would venture it's a pretty safe bet that thr doesn't condone straw purchase of fire arms in any manner.

1 old 0311
August 13, 2006, 11:17 AM
G.Gordon Liddy says " I don't own any guns, I am a convicted fellon. My wife? She has LOTS."

hammer4nc
August 13, 2006, 11:34 AM
I was in Davi's/Raleigh recently, looking at gun safes, when the cell phone in my pocket rang. Almost immediately, two employees pounced, frantically telling me to shut off my phone! Apparently, cell phone bans in gunstores are the latest common-sense response aimed at combating straw purchases.

I'll also note that the local ATF office has filmed its "don't lie for the other guy" public service TV announcement from within the store. They must have received special permission to bring recording equipment into the store. :eek:

For this and other reasons (notably the attitude of their range officers), I no longer shop there. I still go to the knife showcase, just to handle the latest nifty assisted openers, prior to buying on the internet, though.

Crosshair
August 13, 2006, 01:29 PM
I mean this thread for us to share stories of the NICS system working and vigilant employees using existing gun laws to prevent people who are forbiden to own guns from owning them. I meant it to show that the existing system is working. Looks like it isn't going that way.:o

Derby FALs
August 13, 2006, 01:41 PM
This happened to me...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was in Davi's/Raleigh recently, looking at gun safes, when the cell phone in my pocket rang. Almost immediately, two employees pounced, frantically telling me to shut off my phone! Apparently, cell phone bans in gunstores are the latest common-sense response aimed at combating straw purchases.

I'll also note that the local ATF office has filmed its "don't lie for the other guy" public service TV announcement from within the store. They must have received special permission to bring recording equipment into the store.

For this and other reasons (notably the attitude of their range officers), I no longer shop there. I still go to the knife showcase, just to handle the latest nifty assisted openers, prior to buying on the internet, though.

They wouldn't be getting any of my money...

308win
August 13, 2006, 02:31 PM
There was an article in the Saturday Dispatch about a retired Columbus police officer who had several hundred firearms in last 2-3 years. He is prohibited from buying so his wife and father-in-law were buying them. Several had been involved in crimes in Ohio and other states. I imagine he is going to spend some time in prison for multiple convictions.

Here is link (http://www.dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=204481)

Lupinus
August 13, 2006, 02:44 PM
at my job I wont let people get away with buying smokes for people that arent supposed to have them, hell if I'd put up with the penalties of letting someone do what is an outright straw buy.

Derby FALs
August 13, 2006, 04:07 PM
at my job I wont let people get away with buying smokes for people that arent supposed to have them, hell if I'd put up with the penalties of letting someone do what is an outright straw buy.

Lord, help my grand babies...


:eek:

Harry Paget Flashman
August 13, 2006, 06:05 PM
The FFL I use at a local gun store told me a few years back that during a BATFE inspection they were more interested in xeroxing 1473 forms of people (like me) who made multiple firearms purchases over a short period of time or a lot of purchases during the year. Kind of like a guy would do with disposable cash and a hobby. The FFL said that in the previous year these kind of gun buyers who fit that profile actually got a knock at their door by BATFE and that I might expect one. It never came.

Point of the story is that my FFL said he had a stack of NICs declined 1473's and some that he had refused sale before the NIC's check because he suspected a straw purchase. The inspecting agent was not interested in pursuing the dubious 1473's...they just wanted the names of people who bought "too many" guns.

The Guy
August 13, 2006, 09:47 PM
Typical BATF&E. Ignore potentail problems to persue non existing ones. I always wonder who will get burned up next.:mad:

Ah, the joys of F-Troop! Where evey gathering can be a BBQ!

cassandrasdaddy
August 13, 2006, 09:50 PM
forgive my ignorance but why would they stop you from using cell phone?

as to illegal sales i grew up near dc and lived in the city probably seen more illegal than legal. our sad lil joke was need a gun? know anyone still in high school?let therm buy it

Sheldon J
August 13, 2006, 10:02 PM
My youngest son works at Dunham’s and one day a guy and gal came in to buy a riffle, he instructed her as to what he wanted and for her to do the 4473. My boy told them that if the gun was for him then for him to fill out the form and do the NICS, he refused and told her to, since they were paying for it was none of his business. Smelling a guy that could not pass the NICS the boy refused the sale and told them to get out of the store. The guy became very irritated and started to threaten my son, who is 6’7” and front defensive line, this amused him and he told them again to get lost before he did a 911 on them, they left very fast.:neener:

Wiley
August 13, 2006, 10:22 PM
Crosshair, if you want good "straw purchase" stories talk to Bloomingidiot up in NYC. He makes up good ones.

sacp81170a
August 13, 2006, 10:32 PM
What burns me about all this is that nothing ever happens to those who fill out a 4473 knowing that they won't pass the NICS check. If they lied on the form and signed it, it's falsifying an official document at the very least. Oh wait, I forgot, NICS isn't meant to actually catch and prosecute criminals for their crimes. It was supposed to be the first step toward total registration, which would then pave the way for confiscation, the dream of the Brady Bunch. Hopefully we won't all go the way of Kommiefornia. :barf:

mrwiggins
August 14, 2006, 02:23 AM
if you buy a gun here, deside you don't like it and want to sell it, it's called a private party sale. :)

Cesiumsponge
August 14, 2006, 03:08 AM
Found this a tad interesting...something I was not aware of before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_purchase

Famous straw purchases:
...Noted anti-gun activist Sarah Brady, founder of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (formerly known as Handgun Control, Inc.), purchased a Remington .30-06 rifle with a scope and safety lock at a Lewes, Delaware gun shop, for her son, James Brady, Jr., "as a Christmas present" in 2000. According to Delaware Justice Department spokeswoman Lori Sitler, this purchase was a "straw purchase". Brady confessed to this in her book, A Good Fight. There is no claim that Brady violated the federal "straw purchase" law as she was the actual purchaser. The fact that she intended to and indeed made a gift of the rifle is not relevant. Under Delaware law, a "straw purchase" occurs only if the ultimate recipient is "not qualified to legally purchase, own or possess a firearm in this State." There has been no evidence, much less a legal determination that Brady's son was such a prohibited person.

ew York Daily News
March 22, 2002 08:15:00


WASHINGTON - Gun-control advocate Sarah Brady bought her son a powerful rifle for Christmas in 2000 - and may have skirted Delaware state background-check requirements, the New York Daily News has learned.

Brady reveals in a new memoir that she bought James Brady Jr. a Remington .30-06, complete with scope and safety lock, at a Lewes, Del., gun shop.

"I can't describe how I felt when I picked up that rifle, loaded it into my little car and drove home," she writes. "It seemed so incredibly strange: Sarah Brady, of all people, packing heat."

Brady became a household name as a crusader for stricter gun-control laws after her husband, James, then the White House press secretary, was seriously wounded in a 1981 assassination attempt on then-President Ronald Reagan.

Brady writes in "A Good Fight" that the unnamed gun shop ran federal Brady Law and Delaware state background checks with great fanfare.

The book suggests that she did not have her son checked, as required by Delaware state law.

"(W)hen the owner called in the checks, it seemed to me he spoke unnecessarily loudly, repeating and spelling my name over and over on the phone," Brady writes.

Amy Stillwell, a spokeswoman for The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said the federal Brady Law does not require background checks for intrafamily gun gifts.

Stillwell said she did not know whether her son was checked under the state law. The Delaware Department of Justice says the state does not have an exemption for family gifts.

"Scott is not a convicted felon, and he is not prohibited from owning a gun," Stillwell said. "Scott Brady could walk into a store and buy a - he is not a prohibited purchaser."

Delaware Justice Department spokeswoman Lori Sitler said the purchase could be illegal under state law if Brady did not also say who she was buying the gun for and submit his "name, rank and serial number" for a full check.

"You can't purchase a gun for someone else," Sitler said yesterday. "That would be a 'straw purchase.' You've got a problem right there."

Anti-gun control advocates were surprised to hear of Brady's foray into their world.

"We hope that it's innocuous and there's been no laws violated," said James Jay Baker, chief lobbyist for the National Rifle Association. "It's obviously interesting that Sarah would be purchasing firearms of any kind for anybody, given her championing of restrictive guns laws for everyone."


(c) 2002, New York Daily News.
Venomous anti-gun spokesperson buying a firearm of all things...that is a dead ringer for hypocrite!

1 old 0311
August 14, 2006, 07:17 AM
Well I was working in a gunstore, and a guy came in and identfied himself as 'Gun Kid'......................................... :neener: :neener: :evil:

Low-Sci
August 14, 2006, 09:32 AM
A friendly gun counter clerk actually stopped my friends from straw-buying back when the second one of us was turning 18. He wanted to buy a Mauser, its the only one left, and he was a couple days early for his birthday because he got impatient. So one friend turns to the other, older one and says, "can you just get it for me, as long as we're here? I can pay you back."

Clerk overhears this and says "hey guys, I can't let you do that. Its called a straw buy, and more importantly its 10 years. I can just put it in the back for a couple days, and you can come back when you're legal."

At that particular store, you can never get anything held for you, so that was pretty cool.

308win
August 14, 2006, 09:40 AM
On more than one occasion I have witnessed purchases where the female would fill out the form and pay for the gun when it was obvious that the gun was for the spouse/boyfriend. He was doing all the looking/evaluating/fondling and she obviously didn't know a thing about the firearm. Now, the question is by posting this am I admitting to aiding and abetting?

Derby FALs
August 14, 2006, 10:21 AM
Not if it was a gift.

HankB
August 14, 2006, 10:30 AM
I have reason to believe instances where someone who's underage saves up to buy a gun and the parent fills out the paperwork are common.

Derby FALs
August 14, 2006, 01:46 PM
AFAIK that is not really legal. It can be bought outright and gifted to the child but who's gonna tell?

HankB
August 14, 2006, 02:55 PM
Unless the youngster does something nefarious - in which case there would be plenty of charges other than straw purchasing - or the info is posted on a blog or something, prosecution of a parent doing the paperwork for a gun the kid is paying for is going to be virtually impossible.

Father: "I bought the gun as a gift for Junior. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!"

Son: "Dad bought me the gun as a gift. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!"

Prove otherwise.

BTW, I seem to remember a reading about a case back in the '70s (?) in which a 19 or 20 year old won election to sheriff or constable or something in some little hick community . . . IIRC, his mother had to buy him his handgun and ammo.

EOD Guy
August 15, 2006, 12:31 PM
Typical BATF&E. Ignore potentail problems to persue non existing ones. I always wonder who will get burned up next.

I pulled into the parking lot of a dealer I frequent a lot and saw BATF handcuffing two gangbanger types and putting them in a patrol car. The owner of the shop said one had attempted a straw purchase for his friend who was a convicted felon. BATF was very responsive when called by the dealer.

Of course, this was in California and their was plenty of time to coordinate the arrests during the 10 day waiting period.

wingnutx
August 15, 2006, 01:35 PM
Not a straw purchase, but I did witness a couple of homeboys trying to buy a "plastic, undetectable glock" at a gunstore. The salesman tried to convince them that no such pistol existed, but they wouldn't believe a word of it.

Pretty funny, actually.

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