*Maybe* a CCW self defense incident caught on tape!?


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Jim March
August 13, 2006, 07:41 AM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8613431240341347407&q=bmw+hicks&hl=en

Some say it's fake...me...dang, I'm not sure, I think it might just be real!

Fascinating six minutes of video.

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Tim Burke
August 13, 2006, 07:56 AM
Maybe.
Then again, the DA might look at that clip and say it was an armed robbery.

Jim March
August 13, 2006, 08:07 AM
The couple in the beemer gathered evidence of a much more serious crime in progress than camera theft.

Would YOU convict them of camera theft, if you were on the jury?

loki.fish
August 13, 2006, 08:37 AM
That video is everywhere, lol.

ilbob
August 13, 2006, 09:13 AM
IMO, fake.

XavierBreath
August 13, 2006, 09:48 AM
Fake or not, it is idiotic to send your girlfriend over to get the camera. That was a hostage taking waiting to happen. You cannot cover two people separated that far apart with a handgun. The one not covered would simply take cover or run like a jack rabbit.

I'm calling BS on this one. Nice try, but no cigar.

louisdove
August 13, 2006, 09:53 AM
FAKE!!!!!......imo. Too rehearsed and those hillbillies definatly were not scared enough for when there is a pistol pointed at you.

Tim Burke
August 13, 2006, 01:27 PM
Would YOU convict them of camera theft, if you were on the jury?Absolutely not, but I'm not the DA. Even if he is acquited, he still loses if he's charged. Does anyone doubt that there are some DAs that would look for the opportunity to make the guy with the gun the bad guy? I doubt the guy in the Beemer reported this to the police. So, if the hicks report that they were robbed at gunpoint by the yuppie, how will this play out?
My advice: if you need to use a gun defensively, do it by the book. Even if the guy was attempting an armed robbery, you can't rob him. In any case, you need to be the first one to report it to the authorities.

Lupinus
August 13, 2006, 01:37 PM
assuming it is real, can we say theft?

all in all though, I'd say either staged or a lot of stupidity, by the guy with the gun for both taking the camera and they way he took it. Not saying they don't deserve it (and the keys in the sewer bit was funny) but not smart legally.

porterdog
August 13, 2006, 04:11 PM
That made me really uncomfortable.

Sindawe
August 13, 2006, 04:35 PM
Its not a wise move to mess around with strangers.

Tim is right though, if your in such a mess you need to be the ones to call it on FIRST. I have to wonder why the driver did not contact local police when he realized he was being followed in an aggressive fashion. After the first verbal exchange, I'd be on the phone right quick.

Stil, interesting video.

LaVere
August 13, 2006, 06:02 PM
It was a very interesting tape fake or not. To me it shows what persons should NOT do that is the two pick up truck people did. With a video tape in BMW posission, Buba Sr with baseball bat, out numbered two man to one, many threats, threat with his truck, dead end street and possible truck blocking exit, one more step forward I call it eminet threat of death and a good shoot.


Of course every one will have their own opionion, this was mine.

Jim March
August 13, 2006, 06:20 PM
No guarantee he (or his GF) had a cellphone, or that it was on him at the time, or that the battery was charged...

Yes, I agree that CCW and a cellphone go together like peanut butter and jelly :). But it doesn't always work out that way.

jeepmor
August 13, 2006, 06:21 PM
Sounds like the Canucks to the North, eh?

It may have been staged, or not, but stealing the camera at gunpoint is armed robbery isn't it? I would have taken the keys, dumped them 1 mile down the road and beat cheeks out of there.

I feel that when this fella pulled a gun, it was in response to the bat, the dead end road, and several minutes of harassment. But the camera did not catch the timing exactly, but did make a point to witness the bat being pulled out of the back of the truck. I'm not certain a shoot would have been justified, but the gun looks like it was the key to the Bimmer folks getting away unharmed. I had an experience like this once and simply outdrove the antagonist on a windy road. Trucks don't corner like cars, thank goodness, because I didn't have a gun.

All that for simply being cutoff. Not a way to be remembered should things have gotten ugly and big suspenders guy thought the bat would overcome the revolver. Sending girl to get camera bad, hindsight, put camera on the hood and back away. Tape the two perps, get the license plate in there, then drop it off at the sherriff's office. Still might be armed robbery though, you would be taking said tape at gunpoint, bad juju in LEO eyes, and on the tape....erase that first.

jeepmor

Jim March
August 13, 2006, 06:27 PM
The guy with the bat was inside 21ft of the gunman. The gunman had every right to fire right then in most states.

One KEY mistake by the gunman: he let the bat-boy continue holding the bat, although it was drooping. He would have gotten a firm and calm "drop...that...bat...final...warning" from me while I sighted in on his eyeball. And I'd have meant it, AND taken both bat and camera to a police station for fingerprinting.

After copying the tape :D.

Taurus 66
August 13, 2006, 06:31 PM
The driver of the BMW wasn't helping to disarm the situation when he was giving the finger. It's a gesture that can get any road rager's blood boiling (we'll call the driver of the truck the road rager). When the driver of the BMW was confronted on that turn, this is where he had the opportunity to try and end it with, "I apologize for not using the turn signal .....", but all too often egos get in the way of rational thinking and a situation can quickly escalate from bad to worse.

Taking the camera at gun point is armed robbery. That was not a smart move. Then he has the nerve to put it on the internet? If this is for real, he's looking at possibly facing arrest in the near future.

Jeff F
August 13, 2006, 06:51 PM
Any one think maybe the BMW driver knew that was a dead end road out away from town. I think taking the camera turned it into armed robbery. Not smart posting on internet.

Zundfolge
August 13, 2006, 06:54 PM
If this is for real, he's looking at possibly facing arrest in the near future.
Which is why I believe its fake.

Funny, but fake.


When the scene ended up at the dead end road EVERYONE was WAY too calm, and the guy who started out with the camera was still filming the scene ... you point a gun at me or my friend and I'm at the very least going to put the camera down.

Fake or not, there is a lesson here; don't screw with people.


So I wonder what gives some people the idea to do these kinds of videos.

MAURICE
August 13, 2006, 07:10 PM
Fake or not is debatable.
What if he took the camera and turned it into the police as evidence of an aggravated assault? That is exactly the crime the hick in suspenders committed.

The gun being pulled itself, I think it is justified. Come at me with a ballbat and I would do the same.

oregonshooter
August 13, 2006, 07:48 PM
Fake.

But good training film anyway. Shows a lot of mistakes.

Sistema1927
August 13, 2006, 07:51 PM
Fake, and not even funny.

Jim March
August 13, 2006, 08:22 PM
We oughta do a poll. Some say "armed robbery". I say "settled out of court for infliction of emotional stress".

:evil:

Then again, I gotta say, I just hate bullies. Can't stand 'em.

Brass Balls
August 13, 2006, 08:39 PM
FAKE IMO


When someone is carrying lethal force they shouldn't be mouthing off and flipping the bird.


Would you view it differently if the Bimmer driver had initially apologized for not using his signal then again tried to diffuse the situation when they were at the stoplight? I would.

FilJos
August 13, 2006, 08:58 PM
Fake.

Vairochana
August 13, 2006, 09:16 PM
Having been in that situation I can appreciate the action- the truck guys precipitated and continued the aggression- If I were the Beemer guy I would have been in fear of my likf or at least a beating- also how was he to know there wasn't a truck gun as well as a bat?

Greg L
August 13, 2006, 10:03 PM
Fake

Over the top stereotypical redneck clothing, language, music, etc - all designed to make fun of the "hicks". The most damning evidence though is that no true redneck drives a newer Toyota pickup.

Texshooter
August 13, 2006, 10:24 PM
Does Toby Keith know about this?

blackhawk2000
August 13, 2006, 10:57 PM
I think it's fake. The dude with the gun sounded Canadian to me. Doubt a Canadian would be carrying.

striker3
August 13, 2006, 11:21 PM
The cameraman had a suspiciously strong Canadian accent as well...

Geno
August 13, 2006, 11:34 PM
Real or not, it brought back some memories of my wife's and my assualt back about three or four weeks ago.

If real, I think the Beemer driver would have some serious police explaining to do about flipping off the other drivers. The Beemer driver seemed to do ALMOST as much to perpetuate the situation. I agree Re: send the girl to get the camera. No, I would say, "Set the camera down; back away, and get on your belly..." if I thought it had evidence. Then, I would take it to the police, not post it. Theft is right. Also, the Beemer driver didn't really seem to make any efforts to get away, kept mouthing back, etc., etc. Yeah, it seems fake. I think I'll follow this some more and see what develops.

Regardless, stupid if real, tremendously stupid if fake.

Doc2005

gunsmith
August 13, 2006, 11:53 PM
it's aboot time that it's called such too,eh?

A few things I find inneresting, the guy with the gun, his finger was indexed meaning he's al least aware of gun handling, but I cringed when his gal went for the camera...terrible tactics!, letting the guy go for the bat? a real redneck wouldn't be carrying a bat, he would be reaching for the 30-30 and a guy with a handgun shouldn't let the other guy go for a rifle...

this is how I handled it, and learned valuable lessons (some harsh)
from you guys...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=192574&highlight=road+rage

Superpsy
August 14, 2006, 09:41 AM
fake...but makes you think.:scrutiny:

Roadwild17
August 14, 2006, 10:44 AM
No win situation for either parties.

1 guy in the beamer does nothing to de-escalate the situation

2 guy in the beamer does nothing to try and get away

3 guy in the beamer when confronted and trapped resolute the situation by steeling the camera?

4 guy sends his GF over to get the camera, why not just give her to him?

The hicks, not even going to start on them


Last, the BMW should have BURNT that truck by a lot.

TX1911fan
August 14, 2006, 11:47 AM
Fake. They are definitely Canadian, but they tried to make people watching the video think they were in the US. The guys in the truck say "This is Texas." I grew up in Canada and now live in Texas. That was definitely not Texas.

Lonestar
August 14, 2006, 12:19 PM
Why didn't the guy in the BMW call the cops on his cell...can afford a nice car but no cell phone.

If it was real, the guy in the BMW was an idiot. If the guy in the pickup truck pulled an AR out instead of a baseball bat, it would have ended a lot more different.

Mac Attack
August 14, 2006, 01:12 PM
I say it's fake.

The guy driving the BMW should have just driven to a police or fire station. On the otherhand if he had the 'not of best intentions' then a isolated road dirt road with no witnesses was smart. Who is the fool now? :)

c_yeager
August 14, 2006, 01:35 PM
I've never seen such bad acting in a genuine film. The guys in the truck actually said "eh" (watch "strange brew") more than once. Its definatly fake IMHO.

CNYCacher
August 14, 2006, 04:08 PM
It's fake for sure, but kudos to the guy who thought up that plot. Talk about a twist ending.

shell70634
August 14, 2006, 05:22 PM
Bat man not to smart. Wrong weapon to bring to gunfight. IMO Shooting would have been good shoot up until camera was taken.

Creeping Incrementalism
August 14, 2006, 09:20 PM
If the guy with the BMW was really determined to just get out of the situation, he probably would have just stepped on it and turned corners quickly, avoiding dirt roads. The fact that he didn't seems rather likely intended to take the action to the climax at the end of the dirt road. The camera work at the end is rather suspicious, first focusing on the guy getting the bat, then zooming in on the gun pulled by the Beemer driver. And the hicks do seem a little too calm there too, as everyone has said. So, yeah, probably staged... but still pretty good.

Shootcraps
August 14, 2006, 09:41 PM
Fake, but entertaining. If real, the ass-clowns in the truck deserve to get shot.

Hook686
August 14, 2006, 10:31 PM
hmmmmm looks more like armed robbery to me. Now had he got out firing at the clown with the bat, if on the jury, I'd have understood it as self-defense. However, the clowns were able to de-escalate, so he needed to just go his way, which is what he did. I don't understand taking the camera.

Shootcraps
August 14, 2006, 11:04 PM
I don't understand taking the camera.

That's called "just desserts". :evil:

hoppinglark
August 14, 2006, 11:14 PM
this one is real
Right Click here and save as (http://www.stupidfacehead.com/shootout.wmv)

or if that won't work.

try this (http://media.putfile.com/How-To-Make-Swiss-Cheese80)


http://www.nbc4i.com/news/4819485/detail.html

Man To Be Charged With Aggravated Robbery

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Police said a desk clerk shot a man who was attempting to rob an east side motel on Saturday night.

Officers said that shortly before 9:30 p.m., a man walked into the Super 8 Motel, located at 2055 Brice Rd., showed a gun and demanded money.

Police said the desk clerk on duty then shot the alleged robber, Antoine Stephens.
Stephens, 20, was transported to Grant Medical Center and was in serious condition on Sunday morning, NBC 4 reported.

Police said he would be charged with aggravated robbery.

The motel clerk's name was not released. It was unclear as to whether he would be charged.

Anyone with information about the crime is asked to contact the Columbus police detective bureau at (614) 645-4624. Anonymous calls can be made to Central Ohio Crime Stoppers at (614) 645-8477.

PythonFan
August 15, 2006, 12:07 AM
Holy crap, that clip of the desk clerk really scares me. I wonder if I would be able to react in such a cool manner. Any more info on this?

RyanM
August 15, 2006, 12:25 AM
Hm. In a similar, but legitimate situation, wouldn't it be a better idea to hang onto the keys, drive a few miles away, call the cops, then give the keys to the responding officer? That would probably do a lot to increase the chances of them getting caught.

And is it just me, or does the guy's revolver look more like an airgun? Strangely shaped butt, very huge tall rib on the top... resolution isn't the best though, so it's hard to tell.

razorburn
August 15, 2006, 12:34 AM
Wasn't there a huge thread on that 2nd vid since he posts here?

BUZ
August 15, 2006, 12:47 AM
Look at the bottom of the grip (there's something hanging below the grip) this is normally the latch you grab and turn in order to replace the CO2 cartridges on pellet gun pistols (looks like a crossman pellet pistol/revolver).

Sounds & even looks like Canada to me, carrying a pistola is a big no no up there!


http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/6104/gun2ac6.png
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/660/gamor774pq0.jpg

Taurus 66
August 15, 2006, 01:39 AM
Awww, cmon now BUZ. That's all a Texnadian can afford under the current social laws. It wouldn't have sounded right on the video if the beemer dude said, "You drop that bat or I'm gonna cap you with a .177 cal pellet! This is quite capable of breaking the skin tough guy!"

10 Ring Tao
August 15, 2006, 03:58 AM
Wasn't there a huge thread on that 2nd vid since he posts here?

Yeah, but I'm having trouble finding it. He posted the most on an AK forum, http://gunsnet.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=77

If someone has an account there and can search, you can probably bring it up. He talked at length about what happened.

Heres a couple of the threads here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=187561&highlight=rooftopvoter
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=188107

The Good
August 15, 2006, 04:33 AM
more than one agressor, a bat involved, him protecting his girlfriend. he had reason to prepare to use deadly force, but he still acted irresponsably along the way, and after the fact

HighVelocity
August 15, 2006, 07:03 AM
I agree with Buz. Looks like a Crossman co2 pellet pistol. I used to have one just like it.

Zen21Tao
August 15, 2006, 10:18 AM
This video looked staged to me too. First thing I though of was use cell to call the cops and drive these dopes right up to a police cruiser. At any rate, I don't see an armed robbery charge if the guy obtained the camera and (of course after making his own copy) turned the camera in to police. Or at least used the excuse that that was the purpose of taking the camera. If not, an armed robbery charge I think would depend on the state. There are laws that say a person can not sue for damages occured in the commission of a crime. This may extend to criminal cases as well.

.45Guy
August 16, 2006, 10:56 AM
No video, but similar story. I went to school with the two stabees, apparently wisdom doesn't always come with age.
http://www.news-herald.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=16861354&BRD=1698&PAG=461&dept_id=21849&rfi=8

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