7600p as truck gun (& a couple of questions)


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ChristopherG
August 13, 2006, 02:18 PM
I've been thinking about picking up a Remington 7600p as a truck-gun. It's a synthetic-stocked, parkerized, ghost-ring sighted, pump action, mag-fed 16.5" .308. To my thinking, this gun (http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7600.htm) possesses almost all the qualities I'd like in a truck-gun:

1) It's in a caliber that needs no justification or apology. It's a truck gun not only in the sense of riding in one; it's also capable of going through one--at least to a greater extent than any pistol-caliber or pea-shooter.

2) It's fairly handy, corrosion-resistant and relatively low maintenance.

3) It's a fast and familiar action. I don't really like semi-autos; but even if I did, it's not like there are a plethora of good options for semis in .308 (or any major caliber, for that matter). At least not under a thousand bucks--and that's just too much money for a truck gun in my situation.
Like the cops this gun was created for, I've shot an 870 police mag plenty. I'm familar and comfortable with the action--and I know from 3-gun competition just how much I give up to autoloaders with a pumpgun (some, but not much).

4) It's mag-fed. I've got a levergun in my truck right now, but would prefer to have a magazine for loading. If I should ever want to use my truck gun in pressing circumstances, I'd prefer to be able to be fully loaded in the time it now takes me to feed and chamber just ONE round.

Now the concerns or potential downsides:

1) The mag capacity (4 in the stock Remington mags) is puny. Regrettably, they didn't make this model capable of using M1a or FAL mags. So I'd be looking for aftermarket mags of at least 10 rounds--Eagle and Triple K being the one's I've come across.

Does anyone know about the reputation and quality of these aftermarket mags for the 7600?

2) The barrel is only 16.5", which is a bit short for a .308. This one doesn't worry me so much, since I'd reload my ammunition and (I'm confident) could find a balance of velocity & power vs. blast and recoil that would make me happy.

Anybody have any advice on loading .308 for a short barrel?

Now if there's ANOTHER handy, reasonably priced, corrosion-resistant, magazine fed, major caliber gun out there--in an action that's faster than a bolt-gun, please--and I haven't thought of it, I'd be thrilled to hear about it.

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Jackal
August 13, 2006, 02:56 PM
SKS or Hakim. They may not be too corrosion resistant, but who cares. At $100 buck each, you can buy 5 of the SKS for one Remington. The Hakim is a good rifle, in a manly caliber and can usually be found at gun shows for $300-$400.

TMM
August 13, 2006, 03:06 PM
I second that SKS. or perhaps an AK.

~tmm

'Card
August 13, 2006, 07:39 PM
I've got several Remington 7400's (the semi-auto equivalent of the 7600 you're talking about) in .30-06, and I love 'em. Not sure why you wouldn't consider one of those if you would prefer a mag-fed semi-auto. They're in pretty much the same price range as the 7600 series. Not sure I'd consider one a 'truck gun', simply because you do need to keep them reasonably clean, but you could say pretty much the same thing about the 7600's. With your criteria, seems like a synthetic-stock 7400 .30-06 carbine would be the perfect choice. Or, if you could find a used 7400 Weathermaster (nickel-plated and tough as nails - it's what I hunt with most of the time) that might be a better option.

As far as the mags are concerned, I've never tried the Triple-K's, but I've got 3 or 4 of the 10-round transparent plastic Eagle mags, and they work great. I've heard bad things about them from other people, but most of those stories seem to be 10 years old or more. I don't know if Eagle beefed up the springs or what, but they feed my 7400's without a hitch.

ChristopherG
August 13, 2006, 08:06 PM
'Card, that's good news on the Eagles, 'cause they're cheap as can be; buy a bunch and just keep the ones that work!;)

I know I mark myself as a kind of a gun dork by saying it, but I really prefer a manually operated gun to a semi-auto. I mean, I'm not arguing our troops should be armed with pumpguns or anything, but I like my 870 better than the 1100's or the Novas or whatnot I've shot. I know from cowboy shooting that a manually operated rifle can be as fast as I feel I need it to be--and a pump would be a hair faster, I think, than a levergun--with a bit of practice.

I have thought about a synthetic 30-06 carbine in the 7600. I already load 30-06, and an 18.5" barrel would be a touch better in a major caliber than a 16.5, I think--at least for everything but portability.

Thanks again for the first-hand word on those mags!

Jim March
August 13, 2006, 08:46 PM
There's a variant of this gun you might consider: the 7615 "police model" turns up on Gunbroker, Auction Arms and Gunsamerica often enough.

Yeah, it's a 223...but it eats out of AR15 magazines :). Somebody said it may be built on the smaller "20 gauge" reciever vs. the 12ga base for the 308/30-06 guns.

thereisnospoon
August 14, 2006, 01:14 AM
I had a 7600 Police and wasn't overly impressed...meaning for $750.00 retail. The gun worked fine and was handy, blah, blah, blah.

Take away the ghost rings and the 10 rounds and you had an everyday 7600 in .308.

Speaking from my experience the 10 rounders from Eagle SUCKED (incase you didn't read that right I'm screaming!). The Triple K mags actually worked, but did not "drop free" as the 4 rounders did.

All in all, I'd spend my money and get an Ishapore 2A1 from www.aimsurplus.com a synthetic stock from ATI and a case of SA Surplus to shoot through it....and have a ton of $$$$ left over.

YMMV

mljdeckard
August 14, 2006, 01:30 AM
My dad has a 760 in .257 Roberts, which he loves to say, makes him look like a really good shot. It's beat to snot. It's been re-blued. It has a big chip out ot the stock on the bottom of the stock under the butt-plate. It's been carried through a thousand miles of sagebrush by him and me. For deer and coyotes, when he's mostly driving, it's the main rifle he always takes with him.

I've seen the '06s and .308s in the pawn shops, and I've had to talk myself out of spending money I didn't have more than once to get one. I'm notmally drawn to military-style rifles, but that one would work just fine for me. The only negative experience I ever saw with one, a friend of mine had a newer one in '06, and he took a off-brand, clear plastic hi-cap universal magazine out with it, and it didn't feed. He lost a deer my dad wound up shooting. But it was obviously the magazine's fault, not the rifle's.

ChristopherG
August 14, 2006, 01:39 AM
Hmmm. Cautionary note on the 7600p taken to heart, thereisnospoon. If they had only designed it for larger, drop-free mags... Ah, well, they didn't.

Jim, I've spent hours trying to reconcile myself to a .223 so I could get excited about that very gun.

It's not that I don't think it would be a hoot to shoot;
it's not that I don't know .223 is way cheaper to load for;
it's not that I don't think a .223 would neutralize a bipedal threat in the open;
it's just that someone might have the clever idea to get behind something, and then I imagine kicking myself real hard.

Aw hades, I'm doing a lot of fretting over naught, I expect. I'll do some more thinking about that 7615, and see if I can find any reports on reliability etc.

Oh yeah, T-I-N-S: those aimsurplus Enfields look just about too cheap to pass up, for a cool piece of history (the last designed and produced general issue military bolt guns in the world, if I read Wikipedia rightly?). I might have to grab one of those just to have one (though a bolt-gun is less adequate zombie-medicine, in my hands, than something pumped or levered). Thanks!

Nematocyst
October 18, 2006, 04:13 PM
This thread has been quiet since August, but I thought I'd bump it one more time since the 7600P has come up several times recently in "conversations" with folks. I'm curious to see if there are any new thoughts out there about it.

The 7600P has gotten consistently mixed and somewhat mediocre reviews in THR's rifle country (except for Mike Sr (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=148165), who really likes his a lot). Yet, it still appeals to me in some gut level way, I guess because ... well, see below.

Right now, it's one of the main competitors in my decision for "which rifle next for a general do it all in a pinch" kind of rifle, truck gun, go to for SHTF type scenarios.

{Top choice now is a Marlin 336 for a number of reasons, but that's another story that I'm telling in other threads...no need to repeat it here... :rolleyes: }.

The 7600P appeals to me in several ways: short (I want short, but would prefer 18" or 19" rather than 16.5"); iron sights; .308; familiar action (see my user name).

I've also considered finding a standard 7600 and having the barrel cut down and recrowned.

Anyway, just curious.

Any thoughts?

Nem

MatthewVanitas
October 18, 2006, 04:22 PM
Is there a reason that nobody's mentioned the Saiga?

For the kind of cash that a 7600 wants, you can have a Saiga and a bunch of magazines. You could even get it chromed and still be under budget.

Plus, if so inclined, you could either convert it or buy a converted one with a folding stock to save space.

-MV

Nematocyst
October 18, 2006, 04:29 PM
Matthew, would you kindly be a bit more specific? Which Saiga?

When I google this - "Saiga pump rifle .308" - I get mostly references to Saiga 12. The pages that mention rifle fail to load.

Any URL would be appreciated.

Thanks.

~N

Dr.Rob
October 18, 2006, 04:40 PM
The 760 is a solid rifle capable of amazing accuracy... my old man swears by his and has killed more game with it than I could easily count.

Before he bought a poodle shooter he bought some 9 round eagle mags and a couple steel 10 rounders. The steel ones don't work very well, the plastic eagle mags work just fine.

I don't see the need for 'ghost rings' on a deer rifle in either case. Seems like the 7600 is an up-priced rifle in search of a tactical market.

A couple years back a gun shop here was going out of business selling engraved 760 pump guns for like $350. They have never been that expensive, and they aren't hard to find used.

Mr White
October 18, 2006, 04:48 PM
I have 2 10 round steel mags for my 7600 and they both work flawlessly. I think they're Eagles. My 7600 isn't the P model, Just a plain blued steel and wood hunting rifle in .270, but its a good gun. It puts the bullets where the crosshairs are aimed and it always goes bang when I expect it to.

ArmedBear
October 18, 2006, 04:50 PM
Now if there's ANOTHER handy, reasonably priced, corrosion-resistant, magazine fed, major caliber gun out there--in an action that's faster than a bolt-gun, please--and I haven't thought of it, I'd be thrilled to hear about it.

The BLR comes in stainless/laminate now. Not cheap, but not appreciably higher than the 7600P.

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/images/034010m.jpg

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=003B&cat_id=034&type_id=010

Not a "truck gun", really, because it's an elegant, refined firearm. Depends where in the truck you'd keep it.:)

Nematocyst
October 18, 2006, 05:14 PM
I don't see the need for 'ghost rings' on a deer rifle in either case.Agreed re GR. But I do want apertures (probably Williams) in addition to (probably) a forward mount scope. So, I thought that the GR's on the 7600P might make it easier to put an aperture on ... could be faulty reasoning there ... I'm not sure about differences between the two in spacing and such.

Seems like the 7600 is an up-priced rifle in search of a tactical market.That idea has been residing just under my skin for a while, but it couldn't quite find its way out. Thanks for articulating it.

I'm going to have to price some 7600's. (Not Ps, just standard.) Anybody know what they go for in your area? I'm most interested in synthetics (which are about $100+ less expensive, but I want synthetic for other reasons...)

I think one of them in .308 with a, say, 19" barrel would be quite nice. Drilled and tapped, too, which I don't think the P is ...
__________

Armed Bear, thiose BLRs ARE beautiful, (says a lever-gun nut). Dang.

I handled one recently in .30-06 at a gun store. Wow. Smoothe action, nicely balanced, solid.

I'm not sure one is in my budget right now (I'm not even sure if the 7600P is either; haven't really priced them yet), but someday ... maybe ...

ArmedBear
October 18, 2006, 05:25 PM
.30-06 Carbine is available from the factory with an 18.5" barrel.

'Round here, they're around $525 for the synthetic. I think Wally World sells them for less, but they don't sell guns in California any more. I'm not sure if they'll ever start again, given the hassles they get from the DOJ.

The Remington matte finish is not my favorite, but hell, you can spray the whole gun with Dura-Coat or somesuch, and then you can touch up any scratches yourself at will, all for a few bucks.

Nematocyst
October 18, 2006, 05:31 PM
Thanks, AB.

I was expecting about $525. (I'm just a bit north of your area.) Sounds about right. Not bad. It'd be nice to find a used one in good condition for around $425 or so.

I've definitely looked at and thought about those .30-06 carbines. I have no doubt they're great guns.

But I'm wanting a shorter action - hence leaning towards .308 - even if it means I've got to cut the barrel down. It's too bad Rem doesn't do short action calibers in carbines, too. <Hint, hint, Mr. Remington...>

The BLR that I handled recently was .30-06. The length of the action was noticeably long. If one needs that extra power of the '06, it's worth it, no doubt.

Right now, I don't feel that I do.

ArmedBear
October 18, 2006, 05:37 PM
AFAIK the 7600 receiver is the same size for .308 and .30-06, so it doesn't make much difference.

Remington is making the new 750 Carbine in .308, .30-06, and .35 Whelen, so I think they're listening to you. They're just not messing with the 7600 right now.

Last BLR I handled was a .308, and it balanced beautifully. $400 used in 100% condition. Sometimes I wish I'd have bought it instead of...:)

MatthewVanitas
October 18, 2006, 05:45 PM
@Nemato

I don't really like semi-autos; but even if I did, it's not like there are a plethora of good options for semis in .308 (or any major caliber, for that matter). At least not under a thousand bucks--and that's just too much money for a truck gun in my situation.

Though aware he prefers a pump, since other folks were suggesting SKS, I thought suggesting the semi-auto .308 Saiga 16", since it is under $1000 and is an option.

No pump rifles from Saiga that I know of... yet.

-MV

Nematocyst
October 18, 2006, 05:53 PM
AB, good point about the 7600 receiver for those two rounds...hadn't thought of that.

Hmmm. 750 carbine in .308. Hmmm.

<looks at the web page>

Wow. Nice looking.

Dang it, dude, you just made my decision more difficult. I had this nearly all figured out. Now, ya gone and thrown another gun into the mosh pit. :p

Oh, well, choices are always better than no choices. :D
___

PS: $400 for a BLR. Wow, maybe luck really does exist.

ugaarguy
October 18, 2006, 06:35 PM
Nem, I understand the appeal of the 7600 from an 870 manual of arms commonality standpoint. On the other hand, I can't see spending that kind of money on a rifle that doesn't do anything better than a good levergun like a Marlin 336 can do for a good bit less money. True, the 7600 uses detachable mags, but you can top the Marlin off thru the sidegate. Also true, that the 7600 is in calibers like 308 and 30-06 that have a bit more oomph than 30-30, but do you really need the extra oomph? If you do you can get a Marlin 1895GS stainless guide gun in 45-70 and be in the same price neighborhood. Now if you're dead set on a 308 I like Correia's low maintenance choice of a Saiga or VEPR semi auto; the AK operating system is just too rugged. I also like the basic run of the mil AK for under $400. The 7.62x39 is ballistically similar to the 30-30, and mags are everywhere for cheap. I just think there are better options than the 7600 right now.

ArmedBear
October 18, 2006, 06:40 PM
ugaarguy-

Ever point a 750? It's a DAMN good option, that's all I can say. Points like an 1100.

ugaarguy
October 18, 2006, 06:55 PM
Armed Bear, as you see my post did not adress the 750. The post should have gone thru much earlier, however I'm currently deployed. I had to leave, take care of some duties, and then finish the post. When it did I post I didn't realize how long I'd been gone for. I'll take a look a the 750, as it sounds like a very useful rifle.

Since we're on the topic of rifles of a utility type, I've been told the Kel-Tec SU16s, except for the C model, are available in Ca. Are the Saigas or VEPRs available there, or do they fall under the AK ban?

Nematocyst
October 19, 2006, 02:15 AM
Also true, that the 7600 is in calibers like 308 and 30-06 that have a bit more oomph than 30-30, but do you really need the extra oomph? If you do you can get a Marlin 1895GS stainless guide gun in 45-70 and be in the same price neighborhood.ug, I keep asking myself that: do I really need the extra oomph (of a .308 over a .30-30)?

When I look at these ballistics (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=RL3081*R308W1*R308W7*R30301*R30302), I think, "Wow, that's a big difference in oomph."

Then I think of all the deer (and deer-related animals, e.g., elk) that have been taken with .30-30 over the years and think, "Naw, I don't need that extra oomph."

I think about how good that Marlin 336 feels, the low recoil, quieter blast, less expensive ammunition, less expensive gun.

I think about a cowboy assault rifle based on a 336.

Then I think some more about the difference in oomph.

So, where do I stand right now?

I dunno. Ask me tomorrow. Depends on which way the wind is blowing. :rolleyes:

Dr.Rob
October 19, 2006, 02:47 AM
good points:

Dad's is a 760 carbine bought in the late 70's early 80's...

1. I've seen that rifle put 3 bullets through the bottom of a styrofoam cup at 300 yards.

2. fast handling.

3. durable (its been all over Colorado in every kind of weather and only frozen solid once after a dip in abeaver pond) 870 inspired action.

bad points:

1. If you want it as a 'defense' gun the mag release is wonky, esp with gloves.

2. The 'tac' model has a short barrel and a long sight radius (peep on the receiver) the std. model has a short sight radius (ramped rear on the bbl.)

3. no place to hang flashlights/lasers etc everyone ends up putting on 'tac' rifle.

4. big magazines are hit or miss, and really change how it handles.


I think its a great hunting rifle, I'm not sure the sights and short barrel and dull finish make it a better rifle.

ArmedBear
October 19, 2006, 11:45 AM
Since we're on the topic of rifles of a utility type, I've been told the Kel-Tec SU16s, except for the C model, are available in Ca. Are the Saigas or VEPRs available there, or do they fall under the AK ban?

Saigas are expressly banned, though there are some odd brands that are not. They're hard to get, since no one is actively marketing them.

We have a double ban: one based on make and model, one based on features. Saigas are included in the make and model ban, despite their having features that are identical to, say, a perfectly legal Mini-30, 7400, or BAR. It's just their association with the AK that led our idiot legislators to include them.

VEPR's are banned based on features (detachable magazine plus thumbhole). It might be possible to shoehorn one in, although RPK's are banned by model, by modifying the magazine to be fixed. I've never cared to do that with an AK, though with an AR it's perfectly viable.

Certain AR lowers are legal, since they're not listed by make and model, but only if they're assembled according to legal limits on features (no detachable magazine in combo with a PG, flash hider, or collapsible stock).

Stupid law, all around, especially in combo with a 10-round magazine limit, which, if enforceable, would be the only law with any impact on firepower.

WRT the 750, the 7600 has similar balance. Again, it's like a Remington receiver shotgun, and they're renowned for pointability.

X-Rap
October 19, 2006, 12:49 PM
In my family the 760 is a hit. My dad has a 280 carb. that goes back as long as I remember (1960s ?). Either one of us can pretty much afford to shoot what we want now. We both buy any that are rare in cal. or are carb.and priced right.I have a chopped 30-06 with a muzzle break low power Leopold scope and syn. furniture that my oldest son shot his first elf with. The old 280 has put more meat on the ground than any gun in our family and probably more than any I know. In a family that owns everything from Mil-spec to Acu-Mark it is a testiment that the 760 ranks in the top 10 of go to guns. I don"t think you can go wrong with one And would be happy with one for hunting or shooting zombies.

falling leaves
October 19, 2006, 01:02 PM
If you are looking for low cost truck guns, check out some shows. When I bought my 760 (in 30-06) there were two others the same table, and none were tagged at more than $325. FWIW mine is an early model (mid 50's) and had an excellent bore and chamber. I've put about 200 rounds through it, and drug it to Alaska on a caribou hunt with no hint of a malfunction. The finish is worn - it could use a good blueing, but servicability is outstanding for a $229 rifle.

ChristopherG
October 19, 2006, 05:42 PM
I have a chopped 30-06 with a muzzle break low power Leopold scope and syn. furniture that my oldest son shot his first elf with.

A 30-06 is a lot of gun for an elf.

ArmedBear
October 19, 2006, 05:58 PM
A 30-06 is a lot of gun for an elf.

Coke coming out of nose.

Nematocyst
October 19, 2006, 06:12 PM
<chuckles>

X-rap, I know you're new here (8 posts to now), so speaking for myself
(and I suspect our friends), I'm laughing with you about your elf typo, not at you.

Sometimes, typos are just fun. (I love it when I make funny ones unintentionally...)

I can see a whole new genre of threads soon:

What calilber for elf?

Bolt action or semi-auto for gnome? Etc.

Fairy questions, of course, probably belong in Shotguns (since they fly...) :p

'Card
October 19, 2006, 07:20 PM
A 30-06 is a lot of gun for an elf.
Dude, if you think a .30-06 is too much for elf hunting, then it's clear you've never hunted an elf.

Trust me on this one. The may seem small and... happy (not that there's anything wrong with that) but if you try stopping a charging elf with anything less than 12-gauge slugs, the last thing you'll see on this earth will be curly-toed shoes and pointy ears in 3D.

JShirley
October 19, 2006, 09:56 PM
Hm. I'm getting a 7600 in .35 Whelen and adding Williams sights.

Personally, I think the ideal truck gun won't look military...7600 works, especially in wood trim.

X-Rap
October 20, 2006, 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherG
A 30-06 is a lot of gun for an elf.

Dude, if you think a .30-06 is too much for elf hunting, then it's clear you've never hunted an elf.Trust me on this one. The may seem small and... happy (not that there's anything wrong with that) but if you try stopping a charging elf with anything less than 12-gauge slugs, the last thing you'll see on this earth will be curly-toed shoes and pointy ears in 3D.





He"s right out here in colorado the elfs get huge we also have the largest elf population in the US with the most liberal elf hunting laws around. We prefer a nice yearling female elf for eating but a full grown rutting male elf looks good hanging on the wall.

rocketfish
October 20, 2006, 03:23 PM
I read in the owner's manual for the Remingtion model 7400 semi-auto (available online) that you must load the 1st round manually through the ejection port. If this is the case, then reloads/mag changes would be cumbersome and you would have to have a supply of loose rounds for chambering the first round in addition to the loaded magazines. I do not know if this is also the case for the pump action 7600. I would hope not since they are marketing the rifle for use by law enforcement.

I think the best truck gun would be a Mini-30 (7.62 russian) in stainless steel. Has non-threatening/ranch rifle/PC looks. The round is .30 caliber and superior to the pathetic .223 in power.

The Browning BLR is out of the question due to the piss poor mag capacity (4 or 5?) better than nothing I guess.

ugaarguy
October 20, 2006, 04:15 PM
I keep asking myself that: do I really need the extra oomph (of a .308 over a .30-30)?

When I look at these ballistics, I think, "Wow, that's a big difference in oomph."

Then I think of all the deer (and deer-related animals, e.g., elk) that have been taken with .30-30 over the years and think, "Naw, I don't need that extra oomph."

I think about how good that Marlin 336 feels, the low recoil, quieter blast, less expensive ammunition, less expensive gun.

I think about a cowboy assault rifle based on a 336.

Then I think some more about the difference in oomph.

So, where do I stand right now?

I dunno. Ask me tomorrow. Depends on which way the wind is blowing.
Nem, maybe I can help the wind blow in a little more constant direction. What do we all preach over in the autoloaders section all the time? What do the likes of Pax and sm always preach? That's right, gun fit. We know you're on a budget, but a gun you don't like, even if it's cheaper, is a waste of money, and is worse on a tighter budget. Better to save up if the right gun is out of reach at the moment.

Next, we've established that the common levergun calibers, and the common pump/semi-auto/bolt rifle calibers of 30-30 on up will all do the job, regardless of which you choose.

Further, we've established that both the levergun and the pump rifle have contrasting strengths and weaknesses, both actual and percieved. We've established that either will do more than what you require for this role of truck gun / utility rifle.

Where are we now? We've eliminated cost, caliber, and model/action type. We've gotten back to gun fit. Go to a gun store that will let you point both in a safe direction (of course), dry fire, and manipulate the actions. Which rifle fits you best, and which action is easiest for you to manipulate? In the course of handling them you'll find that one fits and balances better, and one is easier for you to use. There's your answer.

JShirley
October 21, 2006, 12:35 AM
I'm getting an extra stock, and will modify for proper LOP for me. Fit matters! Especially on fast-action, close range firearms.

I shot a deer at 96 meters with a rifle with too long a stock, in an awkward position, one-handed...but I had a rest, and plenty of time. Up close, it's different.

atek3
October 21, 2006, 08:39 PM
sporterized enfields make great truck guns. Good sights, big magazine, as fast as a pump, good hitting power.

atek3

ChristopherG
October 21, 2006, 09:35 PM
as fast as a pump

Not in my hands; and, truthfully, I doubt it in the hands of anyone with equal time/trainig on both.

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