357 Maximum Rounds are huge!


PDA






Peter M. Eick
August 13, 2006, 04:12 PM
Wow, those are huge cases! 1.6 odd inches long is just plain huge! After loading 38 specials I set up the new dies for 357 Maximum and all of the dies except the sizer are near the limits of the threads. Pretty amazing how big these things are. I have not shot any yet, but I loaded up the starting load of H4227 with some 180's and 158's to try out what they can do. Actually handling the rounds it is a lot more like a 45-70 or 38-55 then a revolver round.

I will try and get the Ruger Super BlackHawk out for its break in of "real" ammo next weekend and report what it can do. I am guessing my starting load should be right around 1700 for the 158 and around 1500 for the 180's.

When I shot the SBH with my hottest 2400 loads and 158's it hit way low. I am expecting that with a bit more velocity we can get it up into the paper so I can see what the gun can do.

So, I have to admit I am a bit "intimidated" by my newest toy. Any advice or suggestions on shooting a 357 Max revolver?

If you enjoyed reading about "357 Maximum Rounds are huge!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
steveno
August 13, 2006, 04:41 PM
I have only shot the 357 max in a TC super 14 and it is one heck of a round in a 14 barrel. I do remember that with some bullets you might have to trim the cases back to get a workable oal. the ruger didn't have as long a cylinder as the dan wesson

Peter M. Eick
August 13, 2006, 04:52 PM
I was worried about that COL issue this morning so I pulled the cylinder and measured it. The total length is 2.000" so I could use the recommended 1.890 with no problem.

I expect that these loads will be quite impressive on the range.

Thanks!

steveno
August 13, 2006, 05:35 PM
all 357 max loads are LOUD

Heavy Barrel
August 13, 2006, 08:34 PM
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a12/Bill413x2/SRM.jpg

MCgunner
August 13, 2006, 09:57 PM
I always thought a carbine in that caliber would be pretty awesome.

Is it really that bad about flame cutting??? I was really interested in the caliber. Ruger took the blackhawk off the market faster'n they introduced it. One day it was available, then BOOM, it's gone.

Heavy Barrel
August 13, 2006, 10:57 PM
The cutting was minimal at best.Mine has over three thousand rounds.The cutting on mine is just visible.Maybe about .003 ".

R.W.Dale
August 13, 2006, 11:17 PM
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/HPIM0960.jpg

Mine isn't a revolver but I gotta agree 357max is da bomb:D

BluesBear
August 14, 2006, 07:43 AM
I handled a Ruger .357 Max at the show today.
It was dang near mint. And the $650 tag was the most reasonable price I've seen for one in a while.

Dr.Rob
August 14, 2006, 06:27 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12585&d=1081815736

Just a reminder of my joy of the Maximum.

Harbinger
August 14, 2006, 06:43 PM
I have one right now on hold at a local dealer. Supposed to be near mint w/ box and papers. Hopefully she passes inspection and comes home with me in a couple of days.

Peter M. Eick
August 19, 2006, 06:48 AM
Well if I get lucky I can grab a couple of hours tomorrow and try out my new creations on the range. I have followed the Max since they came out back in the early 80's but never could afford one, or saw one. My Ruger SBH is the first one for sale I have ever personally handled so I immediately bought it.

$650 with the box and paperwork is a good buy. I paid a bit less then that for mine but no papers or box. Mine could not have been shot more then a few cylinders full and appears to be all 38's when I cleaned it up.

runninmike
August 19, 2006, 12:36 PM
Just hit me-wouldn't it be cool to have a Marlin 1894C reamed to .357 Max?
Wonder if it would work, or maybe it doesn't have enough carrier throw.
Cool idea though. Could fire all .357s & .38s.
Best-MC

Myself
August 19, 2006, 01:52 PM
If you like impressive fireballs you will love the .357 maximum! :D

steveno
August 19, 2006, 02:39 PM
considering the the 357 max is rated at 50,000 cup I don't think that there is a lever action made that can handle the pressure even if there was enough stroke

Bullet Bob
August 19, 2006, 04:01 PM
I've never shot one, but I saw a fellow club member in Conover NC a few years ago use one at a silhoutte shoot, and it was putting them down! It was funny in that he had already sold it to a friend (and was regretting it slightly), but people kept asking him about buying it.

Ben Shepherd
August 19, 2006, 04:06 PM
While we are on this subject. Does anyone EXCEPT remington make brass for this caliber?

Tried e-mailing starline.....
No response after 3 different emails:mad: (At least be polite enough to tell me no.)

Nothing at midway etc.

steveno
August 19, 2006, 05:06 PM
at this time I think that remington is the only brass maker and they probably aren't making very much of it any more. I still have some winchester brass but I have had that for quite a few years. start checking gunshows

Crosshair
August 19, 2006, 10:48 PM
You can ream the chamber in a .357 mag NEF single shot barrel to .357 Max and shoot all three rounds out of the same barrel. Looks like that is what krochus did.

sw460mag
August 20, 2006, 10:50 AM
i still have some winchester 357 max from my contender but dont think they make it any more,i did see some in the cabelas catalog under obsolete ammo,

tulsamal
August 20, 2006, 01:10 PM
considering the the 357 max is rated at 50,000 cup I don't think that there is a lever action made that can handle the pressure even if there was enough stroke

Considering that you can get a Model 92 in .454 Casull, I don't think pressure would be the problem. And the smaller diameter case and bore would leave you more steel than for the .454. But I agree with the previous person that a pistol caliber type of carbine probably just can't take a cartridge with this OAL. Don't know that for sure. But the pressure wouldn't be a problem for a Model 92!

Gregg

Dr.Rob
August 20, 2006, 05:30 PM
Federal made ammo for it, I still have a couple of boxes of factory ammo.

BluesBear
August 20, 2006, 06:41 PM
Starline doesn't make .357Max.

Reed1911
August 22, 2006, 02:15 PM
We produce .357 Max ammo, as for flame cutting I believe it got the bad rep. from folks using full loads of powder behind a 125g bullet, I have never seen any evidence of it with revolvers that used 180+ bullets. The 200 and 205g cast bullets are a perfect match for the Max and do well for hunting and longer range shooting. Good cartridge.

Heavy Barrel
August 22, 2006, 10:16 PM
This thread got me going again.After not shooting mine for about 4yrs,I put about 50rds through it yesterday.:D

unspellable
August 23, 2006, 08:16 AM
Reed, what's your thinking about 158 gran bullets in the 357 Max?

halvey
August 23, 2006, 10:09 AM
Fun round to shoot! I shot a cylinder in a Dan Wesson and the recoil wasn't bad.

Reed1911
August 23, 2006, 03:56 PM
Depends, most jacketed 158's are a little hot unless you are planning on long ranging them. Cast 158's are great for silly-wet as you can opt for a larger meplat for a better "smack". As long as you are not trying to push them to ultra high velocity there is nothing wrong with shooting them, and they do offer a bit less felt recoil than the heavier bullets. For 100yd target I love the 165g keith style bullets, flat shots and clean holes easy to see.

TallPine
August 23, 2006, 07:30 PM
357 Maximum Rounds are huge!
I don't get it ... .357mag cases are about 1/8" longer than .38 special - how does that make them "huge" ...?

:confused:

Reed1911
August 23, 2006, 09:01 PM
The .357 Maximum case is not a .357 Mag case. The .357 Mag case is 1.290" long while the .357 Maximum case is 1.605" long.
It is not a mainstream cartridge so don't feel bad about not knowing what it was, most folks don't.

Harbinger
August 23, 2006, 09:08 PM
TallPine,

.38 Special Max. case length- 1.155" (29.34 mm)
.357 Mag. Max case length- 1.290" (32.77 mm)
357 Max Max. case length- 1.605" (40.77 mm)

357 Maximum rounds are huge.

:D

Heavy Barrel
August 23, 2006, 11:14 PM
The difference.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a12/Bill413x2/MVC-201S.jpg

Seancass
August 24, 2006, 10:55 AM
pictures are always helpful. i happened to know what a max. is but have never shot or even seen one actually, but pictures are always good. always.

TallPine
August 24, 2006, 07:45 PM
duh ........ :uhoh:

ok, so are any revolvers chambered in max or just rifles???

can you still shoot .357 mag or .38 sp in the same gun ?


(so i guess this is sorta like 45-70, 45-90, and 45-110 etc ..............)

Reed1911
August 24, 2006, 07:59 PM
No, it is not limited to the rifle only, yes you can shoot 38's and 357's in it.

unspellable
August 25, 2006, 08:42 AM
Ruger once upon a time chambered the 357 maximum. I've heard rumors there was another SA, from Seville or somebody.

There is the Dan Wesson has the 357 SuperMag DA revolver. This revolver is actually chambered for the 357 SuperMag. In spite of which they mark it on the side as 357 Maximum, don't ak me why. The 357 Maximum is actually a slightly shortened version of the 357 SuperMag. So the DW will chamber the 357 mnaximum but the Ruger will not chamber the 357 SuperMag.

The 357 Maximum case length is 1.605, min OAL is 1.940, max OAL is 1.990.
The SAAMI maximum average pressure for the 357 Maximum is 40,000 psi.

The 357 SuperMag case length is 1.610, min OAL is 1.940, max OAL is 2.025.

The 357 SuperMag was developed by Elgin Gates and intended to deliver a large momentum at 200 meters using a heavy bullet of 180 grains or so, something it does very well.

The 357 Maximum was an attempt by Ruger & Remington to take the 357 SuperMag commercial, and is so often the case they had to fix what wasnít broke. Ruger, in spite of Gatesí advice to the contrary, did not want to make the frame window long enough to accommodate the 357 SuperMag. Thus the 357 Maximum concept was born, using a much lighter bullet to achieve hyper velocities and the trouble started.

The Maximum works well enough if you avoid the temptation to drive 110 grain bullets at hyper velocities.

But all this does create an irresistable temptation for us DW shooters to s****** at the Ruger shooters. It's wrong, I know ...

Heavy Barrel
August 25, 2006, 08:45 AM
The only three hand guns ever chambered for the 357 Max to my knowledge were Ruger,Dan Wesson and Thompson Contender.I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.I bought My Ruger when they were released in 1983,still have it,always will.It has at best.003 flame cutting,barely visable.When I stopped shooting the Remington factory ammo the flame cutting also stopped.One of the most accurate single action I have ever owned.

unspellable
August 25, 2006, 11:47 AM
I'd definitely heard rumors about Seville or some other imnported SA chambering the 357 Max. If true, they must have been scared away about the same time Ruger was.

It's a pity the Ruger/Remington fiasco happened, it's basically a very good cartridge when properly loaded and if you have a long frame you can do other things such as DW going on to the whole SuperMag series, 357, 375, 445, & 414. Now S&W has the 460 and 500 which are essentially the SuperMag concept. (They even borrowed DW technology for the barrel.)

It's also too bad Ruger doesn't bring back the Maximum now that the answer to the erosion problem has been figured out. Although it's a problem the 357 SuperMag never had to begin with.

The 445 SuperMag (Stretched 44 Magnum) went from a wild cat to a proprietary round. At one time there was talk of going commercial with it. They should have. Lot's of horsepower without going to extremes like the 500 S&W.

One advantage the DW has for SuperMag class cartridges is the adjustable cylinder gap. You really want a 0.003 inch gap to help keep erosion down and that's a bit tight for factory tolerances on a non-adjustable revolver.

unspellable
August 29, 2006, 09:55 AM
Well I did a little research. The Seville was not an import, it was made in the USA. There was definitely a stretch frame version chambered for either the 357 SuperMag or the 357 Maximum, it's a little unclear which at this point. It was also chambered for the 375 SuperMag.

They also had back room examples of them in 414 SuperMag and what they called a 44 SuperMag which was either a 445 SuperMag or something close to it. These were never put in production.

The Seville was said to be superior to the Ruger Blackhawk in fit and finish. Apparently they were not scared away from the 357 Maximum or SuperMag as Ruger was but they had typical small company difficulties and so they didn't make a lot of them. But apparently they were making a few for some time after Ruger dropped out. They do not seem to have any special collector's interest to drive prices through the roof so if you stumble across one it might be worth grabbing.

Firepower!
February 21, 2008, 04:48 AM
Hello
Ok. First I admitt I know nothing about the 357 Maximum. I want to know how much more powerfull and bigger is 357 Max than 357 Mag? How does it compare in power to 44 Mag, etc. And what revolvers can fire this?

Ford Truck
February 24, 2008, 09:45 PM
About 20 + years ago, I came across a used Savage Model 24V in .357 Max. over a 3" 20 gauge. It's not a revolver, but it's the only .357 Maximum I've ever fired. It makes a good woodsrunner gun. I reckon I'll keep it.

BlindJustice
February 25, 2008, 12:14 AM
Not Huge still the same diameter as .357 Mag. just LONG....

BlindJustice
February 25, 2008, 12:30 AM
THe 1894 Marlin can't handle a 200 grain bullet in .357 Mag. cases but use the .38 SPecial cases and it can.... it has a certain range for each of the
three calibers it is offered in, .38 Spcl/.357 mag. .44 Spcl/.44 Mag, and .45 Colt. The Conversions to Cowboy SPecial which has a case length of .898 involves installing a shorter carrier to operate the cut down to that lenght case. I'm getting my Marlin 1894 converted to .45 Auto RIm. It will involve the shorter carrier and milling for the extra thick rim in the bore and to the extractor I have a 625 S&W in .45 ACP / Auto RIm to go with it.
It should be a 12 shooter.

Back to .357 Mag - on leverguns.com a test of a Marlin 1894 in .357 Mag.
chrono'd about 500 FPS higher than the same load in a 6 inch Bbl. revolver.
the slower burning powder in a magnum works with enough barrel length.



.

rlt7272
February 25, 2008, 01:24 PM
About 20 + years ago, I came across a used Savage Model 24V in .357 Max. over a 3" 20 gauge. It's not a revolver, but it's the only .357 Maximum I've ever fired. It makes a good woodsrunner gun. I reckon I'll keep it.

Sounds like a good combination. I would like to find one like it.

Fatelvis
February 25, 2008, 06:47 PM
I use home-cast 220 grain bullets (Lyman 358627) in my DW 357 Supermag, for IHSMA shooting. It's basically a 44 magnum that shoots a little flatter. By far my favorite and most accurate revolver. I had Dan Wesson, (now owned by CZ) give it a trigger job, mount a Bomar rear sight, and install a taller front patridge sight that they narrowed considerably. Since it was all done by the factory, it is competition legal. I think only Freedom Arms' revolvers edge out the Dan Wessons in long range shooting, as in IHSMA. 357 Max....a great cartridge, too bad hotrodders loaded it wrong, and ruined it for the rest of us!

Drail
February 25, 2008, 09:09 PM
It's not huge, it's long.

BlindJustice
February 25, 2008, 09:52 PM
+1 for Drail - if it was to work in a Lever Action I would bet it couldn't fit
in a 1894 - then if you went to a 1895 which handles the centerfire rifle
cartridges, just get a .35 Rem. ???

Drail
February 26, 2008, 06:55 AM
I imagine just trying stuff one through the loading port on a levergun would give your thumb a heck of a workout trying to make it go around the corner. Make a nice single shot levergun though.

madcratebuilder
February 27, 2008, 08:36 AM
We produce .357 Max ammo, as for flame cutting I believe it got the bad rep. from folks using full loads of powder behind a 125g bullet, I have never seen any evidence of it with revolvers that used 180+ bullets. The 200 and 205g cast bullets are a perfect match for the Max and do well for hunting and longer range shooting. Good cartridge.

That is my experience also. I used to load 125's as hot as I could and I have some flame cutting. I've slowed it down a bit.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/PICT0003Medium.jpg

Magnum Wheel Man
February 27, 2008, 09:44 AM
My understanding as well... use 158 or heavier ( I like the 180's ) & with the Dan Wessons, being able to keep the barrel cylinder gap tight helps with the flame cutting...

my D.W. Supermag has taken several northern Whitetail deer... almost no flame cutting visible

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=73857&stc=1&d=1204123318

also have 2 Contender barrels for the "max" as well...

KI.W.
February 27, 2008, 12:50 PM
I have Dan & Wesson 8" and T/C G2 .357 Rem max. 14". When I shall to pass away, take them with me in the coffin.

If you enjoyed reading about "357 Maximum Rounds are huge!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!