travelling to NJ


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carterbeauford
August 14, 2006, 08:02 PM
It pains me to say this, but I have to travel to PRNJ this Friday. Packing.org seems to have fallen off the face of the earth, I read over NJ gun laws at NRA's website, just wanted to double check:

I will stop before I enter NJ and stow my P11 in a soft case with the magazine removed and the slide locked open. Hollow points are illegal in NJ, right? Where should I stash the two magazines loaded with full metal jackets, and where would be the best place to stash the soft case in a crewcab pickup truck? I have a large hidden compartment under my center console. The case has magazine compartments on the outside, would this be legal? This seems like a lot of trouble but I don't want to go totally unarmed and I don't want to end up in jail :scrutiny:

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torrejon224
August 14, 2006, 08:16 PM
Will be making the same trip next month and from Jersey it's up to New York, the two worst states to travel thru with guns! We plan to stay on the Pa side of the river to avoid the problems with Jersey but New York is another matter. I also, would appreciate any input on traveling in both states with handguns!

Pumpkinheaver
August 14, 2006, 08:42 PM
I don't think nonresidents can have handguns, period in NY. Now I'm sure it happens all the time but it wouldn't be worth the risk to me, personally.

geekWithA.45
August 14, 2006, 08:54 PM
NJ is no go with arms unless traveling directly to or from a shooting event.

carterbeauford
August 14, 2006, 09:48 PM
NJ is no go with arms unless traveling directly to or from a shooting event.


Anyone near West Orange want to go shooting Friday night?

davec
August 14, 2006, 11:32 PM
http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_ag2.html

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_trans.html

I'm sure all your questions should be answered at those links.

Lupinus
August 14, 2006, 11:37 PM
there is one and only one reason I will ever set foot willingly in NJ agian, to visit my grandparents. Other then that I have no want need or desire to go back to that rat infested hell hole.

unspellable
August 15, 2006, 08:30 AM
I don't know about New Jersy, but here in Iowa if you have a loaded magazine you have a loaded gun, even if the magazine is not in the gun.

statelineblues
August 15, 2006, 09:10 AM
OK - I live here in Naz - er, I mean, New Jersey, and let me correct you on a few things;
1) possession of hollowpoint ammo is LEGAL in NJ - for sport use only (i.e., on a range, to and from, etc.) Don't believe me? Go to any gun store in the state and the shelves are full of HP. If you are nervous about it then unload your magazines.
2) the firearm must be unloaded and in a LOCKED container. Now I transport my guns in a softside bag with a padlock thru the zipper, and have never had a problem. The ammo must be seperate from the gun and NOT EASILY accessable. Gun in the bag (locked), and mags in the glove box could be enough.
3) unless you are planning on doing something illegal, immoral, or just incredibly stupid, the cops are not going to hassle you. In fact, they probably won't even notice you unless you perform one or more of the afore mentioned actions.
Now I'm not a lawyer - just a guy who deals with this every day.

Nathaniel Firethorn
August 15, 2006, 09:39 AM
NJ is no go with arms unless traveling directly to or from a shooting event.Incorrect. That applies only to transportating firearms. The Party does (for the moment, at least) allow firearms to be posessed in one's "dwelling," which can mean a motel room, mobile home, or even under some circumstances a place of business.

Just apply common sense, keep the thing locked up while you're traveling, and don't go waving it around while you're dwelling, and you should be OK.

Disclaimer: IANAL.

- NF

P.S. There seems to be a hole in the law about people with (God help them) more than one dwelling in Corzinistan, or who are visiting from the United States. I, for one, would not wish to set any legal precedents.

carterbeauford
August 15, 2006, 02:23 PM
OK - I live here in Naz - er, I mean, New Jersey, and let me correct you on a few things;
1) possession of hollowpoint ammo is LEGAL in NJ - for sport use only (i.e., on a range, to and from, etc.) Don't believe me? Go to any gun store in the state and the shelves are full of HP. If you are nervous about it then unload your magazines.
2) the firearm must be unloaded and in a LOCKED container. Now I transport my guns in a softside bag with a padlock thru the zipper, and have never had a problem. The ammo must be seperate from the gun and NOT EASILY accessable. Gun in the bag (locked), and mags in the glove box could be enough.
3) unless you are planning on doing something illegal, immoral, or just incredibly stupid, the cops are not going to hassle you. In fact, they probably won't even notice you unless you perform one or more of the afore mentioned actions.
Now I'm not a lawyer - just a guy who deals with this every day.

That's what I needed to know, thank you sir.

Havegunjoe
August 15, 2006, 03:45 PM
All the above is a moot point if some cop decides to inflict his own brand of law on you. Look what happened to that innocent fellow from Utah that spent several days in a port authority jail when he did nothing wrong. I had a student arrested in NY once for trying to fly out with a gun he declaired properly in his luggage. The local prolice didn't care, they just hauled him off. If you have to be there obey the traffic laws so there is no reason to be stopped is about all I can suggest. I wouldn't fly out of either state.

Hawkmoon
August 15, 2006, 10:45 PM
It pains me to say this, but I have to travel to PRNJ this Friday.
The key word is "to" ... as opposed to "through."

Traveling "to" New Jersey, you are subject to New Jersey law and you are NOT covered by the FOPA. You cannot have a gun in your vehicle in New Jersey without a New Jersey license ... which you can't get.

Leave the guns at home if you wish to be legal. If it's more important to you to be armed than to be legal ... you're on your own.

From the NJSP
You may bring a handgun into NJ under these circumstances:

(1) To go target shooting for the day, with friends, or by oneself. That presumes acting within the law. Gun locked in box in trunk, ammo locked separate. If the vehicle lacks a trunk, gun locked up and ammo also locked up. Only a direct route to the place of shooting and back to your home. Don't wander around, or linger with the gun in the trunk.

(2) You may bring a handgun without a permit to NJ such as when renting in the state if you have a certain purpose.

He made the distinction between casually throwing the gun in the trunk to go visit Grandma (NOT ALLOWED), and a person renting in NJ who brings along their gun for target shooting while renting in the state. Again, locked in trunk, arrive at the rental dwelling, secure gun inside. Only take outside to go to the place of shooting and return home. West Trenton @ 609-882-2000 if you want to call and confirm yourself.

SPECIAL CONSIDERATION: Some NJ residents here on this board insist that non-residents who want to bring guns into NJ should have a NJ Firearms ID card? After recently speaking to Attorney Evan Nappen for two hours about NJ, I too now am inclined to agree. Attorney Nappen advocates it because it provides a positive means for a police officer to establish that you are a law abiding citizen. That's because the process is very intrusive and a little expensive, but the card is good for life, with no additional costs.

Non-residents must apply at a NJSP Barracks near you (no roadways, GSP, TPK etc.) There, you would fill out a form for a background check, allow a mental health check, and provide two references who would definitely be contacted about your character. The Sergeant handling firearms would then fingerprint you. There is a fee of $72.00 that must be paid at that time. Once all your paperwork comes back, the Sergeant would call you to come pick up the card(right thumb print applied to the back) and you sign it in front of the officer.

statelineblues
August 16, 2006, 12:31 AM
Great post, Hawkmoon!

I had the pleasure of meeting Evan Nappen a couple of times - his book on New Jersey weapons laws should be required reading for all firearms owners in this state. It explains the laws in a simple, direct way that everybody can understand. I would trust his opinion on any gun-related issue.

Dot_mdb
August 16, 2006, 01:03 AM
I lived in NJ for most of my life. I never heard of any legitimate sportsman or target shooter having problems, but of course there may be cases. Keep your ammo separate from your gun and no loaded mags and both locked up. I wouldn't keep guns or ammo in any case that looked like it was made for firearms. Also remember that you never want to allow a search of your vehicle without a search warrant. I think that unless you do something very stupid you have almost no chance of any problems.

Bill

MAUSER88
August 16, 2006, 02:55 PM
Well said Dot_mdb. Common sense wins again.

geekWithA.45
August 16, 2006, 03:05 PM
which can mean a motel room, mobile home, or even under some circumstances a place of business.

Back when I was doing a lot of biz travel within NJ, the lawyers I've spoken to were spooked by hotel rooms, as they are a grey area. They were very hesitant to accept my assertion that a hotel room was my "dwelling". The place of biz thing, IIRC, only applies to the owner....can't remember exactly.

Dot_mdb
August 16, 2006, 05:04 PM
Evan Nappan used to hand out business cards with this advice on the back:

Remain Silent - Anything said will be used against you.

Ask for your attorney - You have a right to have an attorney present during any questioning. By asking for your attorney, you may not be interrogated.

Do Not Consent To Give Up Your Rights - A right given up is a right lost. Do not consent to a search without a warrant or sign statements without an attorney's advice.

If The Police Stop You - Do not resist physically. Give your name and address only. You do not have to answer other questions or consent to a search without a warrant. If you refuse to let police into your home or to conduct a search, only refuse verbally.

If You Are Arrested - You may be handcuffed, searched, photographed and fingerprinted. Only say, "I want my attorney." Do not be tricked, threatened or persuaded into giving up your rights. Do not talk to anyone about your case. Many in jail are informants.

The above information was copyrighted by Evan F. Nappen, ESQ

Bill

The Cavalry
August 16, 2006, 06:29 PM
The Utah guy is most likely going to hit the jackpot courtesy of the Port Authority Police Dept, and rightly so.

He's got a civil suit for $3MM filed, the chief of police abruptly resigned shortly after the incident was made public, and at last check the arresting officer was trying to avoid being served his court summons.

I want NJ and the Port Authority to squeal like the pigs they are while this guy's attorney starts working them in court. :evil:


All the above is a moot point if some cop decides to inflict his own brand of law on you. Look what happened to that innocent fellow from Utah that spent several days in a port authority jail when he did nothing wrong.

The Cavalry
August 16, 2006, 06:33 PM
You're going shooting at Ray's Sport Shop later that day, located on Rt 22 in Bound Brook. Print the directions and have them in the car in case you get searched.

carterbeauford
August 19, 2006, 12:40 PM
You're going shooting at Ray's Sport Shop later that day, located on Rt 22 in Bound Brook. Print the directions and have them in the car in case you get searched.

I should have checked in before leaving! Thanks anyways.

I made it there and back. Saw not one state trooper in 300 miles in PA, saw a dozen of them in NJ. Aside from numerous accidents and some relatively... uh... unskilled driving, it was a smooth trip. I had my PT145 unloaded in a locked hard case with 2 magazines of Wolf FMJ (yuck) in the center console.

West Orange didn't look like somewhere I would want to live, but I didn't see any immediate threats either and didn't feel unsafe. In hindsight I should have picked up a box of Remington UMC FMJ because the first shot has to count with the Wolf. I would have rather taken my Taurus 65 but I had nothing but hollow points for it.

I drew some looks navigating a 22' long Dodge diesel through the various city blocks. Only thing I was afraid of was getting pulled over for illegal exhaust, had to take it easy on the throttle with a 4" straight pipe :neener:

Sure was a good feeling crossing back into a free state, though.

Lupinus
August 19, 2006, 12:44 PM
I used to live in bound brook....well south bound brook but that was before I got into shooting lol

interesting yet boring little town :neener:

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