applying for PA carry license (LTCF)


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Chris17404
August 15, 2006, 09:08 AM
Hi all,

I am filling out my carry license application as I type this. I have a question. Box number 28 asks: "Reason for a licence to carry firearms:". There are 6 check boxes:

- self-defense
- employment
- hunting and fishing
- target shooting
- gun collecting
- other (fill in the blank)

A friend of mine (who lives in NH) once told me I should only check the "other" box and write "for all lawful uses".

Is this what others have done also? I'd like to hear suggestions on how to fill this section out. Thanks.

Chris

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jonnyc
August 15, 2006, 10:00 AM
Are you sure that application is for a carry permit? Each PA county uses different forms, but most of those choices have no relevance to a carry permit. In fact, I think it is illegal to even have a legal pistol on youwhen hunting. Defense and employment are the only relevant choices there. If it's not for a job, I'd check defense or go for the NH option, although that one might not fly.
Move to Chester Cty, ours is much easier.

Striker
August 15, 2006, 10:13 AM
When I applied for mine, I was advised by the sheriff's office (Mercer County) to check the block for Self Defense and Hunting & Fishing. The explanation was that you needed the SD annotated for concealed carry at all times other than hunting & fishing, and Hunting & Fishing annotated to carry while engaged in those activities and that this quirk was due to the PA game laws. If you only had SD on the permit leagal to carry while hunting and fishing. If you only had HF on the permit, then you could only carry legally while hunting & fishing.

I followed the advice of the deputy who processed my application and had my permit in 10 days.

Hope this helps.

jonnyc
August 15, 2006, 10:19 AM
That makes no sense. Those choices are only for the application process. Once you get the permit, they are all the same and all cover all the same activities.

Striker
August 15, 2006, 10:33 AM
jonnyc,

All PA permits are not the same. I have seen PA permits issued that look like a driver's license (like those issued by Florida, Ohio, and New Hampshire). Mine, however is a paper form (# SP4-129) that has a block labeled Reason/Carry (Block 11) which has SD, HF annotated in the block. As an aside it also has a "Valid without Photo" annotated in the photo block because as the Mercer County Sheriff's Office informed me that they didn't require a photo.

My permit was issued in 2002, and things may have changed since then. But it was checked last month by a PA trooper at a sobriety check point and nothing was said other then "Thanks, have a nice day and be safe"

jonnyc
August 15, 2006, 12:54 PM
I just checked mine and it has a small area for REASON. I don't know how many reasons I could fit in there, but not many. I do know that physically many are different around the state, I've had mine since '94 or '95, but I don't think they are legally different, which was my point. I will try to find the text of the PA law, but I don't believe that a CCW permit does different things for different people. In addition, you don't need any kind of permit for target shooting or gun collecting, or transporting firearms to carry-out those activities.
I will be surprised if I'm wrong, but that has happened often enough that I've gotten used to it.

RustyShackelford
August 15, 2006, 01:46 PM
When I lived in Pittsburgh PA I got a concealed carry permit. I think I marked protection and target use. If you are not using the weapon for work related functions(IE working in a jewelry store, armed security/ACT 235, etc) I wouldn't mark; employment. I'd just KISS. If a cop wants to know why you are armed or why you have a concealed weapon permit that's not the time/place to play Judge Judy or crack jokes. ;)

Rusty

Chris17404
August 15, 2006, 02:07 PM
FYI...

I just turned in my application. The sheriff's deputy I spoke with said to simply check the "self-defense" box, and that would cover everything. So I did... but I also kept the "for all lawful uses" box checked also. He said that's ok.

Chris

Brian Williams
August 15, 2006, 02:13 PM
Best reason is to use the Self-Defense box, that way if you are not doing any of the others you are covered.
If you check fishing, then you are stuck if you are downtown and not fishing.
with the self-defense box checked you can use it for the rest but not necessarily the reverse.
In Lancaster County they can only put one reason on the permit

ACORN
August 15, 2006, 05:56 PM
I just checked mine. I marked for personal protection. Trying to get too "cute" might antagonize some desk jockey.
It used to be that to carry while hunting or fishing in Pa. you had to have a "provisional" permit. I was told the CC permit didn't apply. I don't know if the guy was blowing smoke up my rear or what. Considering the "provisional" permit only cost 50 cent I just bought it to be safe.

PennsyPlinker
August 15, 2006, 06:09 PM
Mine says for protection too. As far as I am concerned, if I am out in the woods hunting or fishing, I still need to be protected against lions, tigers, and bears, not to mention people from New Jersey. :evil:

Steve in PA
August 15, 2006, 06:42 PM
On the Luzerne County application, it says to pick one but the LTC is good for ALL reasons, selected or not. A LTC is that, a license to carry a concealed firearm on your person or a loaded firearm in your vehicle.

Anyone that tells you different, including sheriffs, do not know the law and have no idea what they are talking about.

jonnyc
August 15, 2006, 09:28 PM
That's exactly what I thought. I do however think there is a clause in PA hunting law that prohibits the possession of a handgun, even if you have a carry permit. Is that true? I never heard of the provisional license mentioned above.

Steve in PA
August 15, 2006, 10:30 PM
According to PA hunting regs, you CANNOT carry a semi-auto rifle or pistol while hunting, even if you have a LTC. You can carry a revolver though, since a revolver is a legal firearm for hunting.

PACS 6109. Licenses.

(a) Purpose of license.A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about ones person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.

This means that no matter what "purpose" you check on the application, the LTC is good for all reasons.

Title 34 Game and Wildlife Code
Sec. 2322. Prohibited devices and methods.

(a) General rule. - Except as otherwise provided in this title or commission regulation, no person shall hunt, kill or take or attempt, aid, abet, assist or conspire to hunt, kill or take any big game, except wild turkey, with any of the following devices or methods:

(1) Any device other than a centerfire or muzzle-loading firearm or bow and arrow.

(2) Any automatic or semiautomatic firearm, except that any semiautomatic firearm modified to permit one shell in the chamber and no more than four shells in a magazine may be used by a person who suffered an amputation or lost the total use of one or both hands.

Lonestar
August 15, 2006, 11:33 PM
Answer Honestly???? Why do you want a permit??? Why are you asking this question on a internet forum???

I Check Target and Self Defense on my application.

Before I got my permit, every time I went to and from the range I had to put my handgun in my glovebox unloaded, and my ammo in the back of the truck, and I could not legally leave my gun in my truck if I wanted to go shooting during my lunchbreak (Actually 2 other guy in the office do the same thing) or if I needed to run a few errands, etc. Safer to carry the gun on my person, than leave it in my vechicle. So I Check Target.

Also I come to the realization a few years ago that I'm fat and old...yes it's true:p . I have 2 young childern to raise and protect, and I cannot protect them in the world we live in with my fist. I always had some sort handgun for home defense, but now I need it for everyday defense. So I picked up Self Defense.

22-rimfire
August 15, 2006, 11:43 PM
PA carry permits are pretty easy to get. The Sportsman Permit covered carrying a handgun while hunting, but it did not allow for loaded carry in your vehicle. The carry permit allows for loaded carry of a handgun. As far as I know, you still can not carry an auto handgun while hunting even if it is your carry weapon. It must meet the hunting requirements which usually means revolver or single shot contender-type gun.

Here in TN, we have to take a class, qualify, get finger printed, background check etc prior to their issuing a handgun permit. The total cost runs around $200 before you are done.

Steve in PA
August 16, 2006, 12:37 AM
In PA, the only requirement for carrying a weapon and ammo (not covered by LTC) is that the weapon must be unloaded and the ammo carried in a seperate container. One DOES NOT have to be inside the vehicle and the other in the trunk, etc.

Also, there is nothing illegal about leaving the weapon and ammo in your vehicle while you work.

PennsyPlinker
August 16, 2006, 08:28 AM
Also, there is nothing illegal about leaving the weapon and ammo in your vehicle while you work.

This may be true, but try explaining that to your employer, especially the higher ups who think that they are the anointed ones. Yeah their no carry rules may be illegal, but it is a very long and expensive fight against the company when they fire you for breaking "their" rule - and they know it.

Steve in PA
August 16, 2006, 11:33 AM
Well, employers/privaye property, etc is a totally different thing. Your doing nothing (criminally) illegal by keeping the weapons/ammo in your vehicle, but apparently you will be in violation of your employment procedures/policy.

All that means is that you can't be charged/arrested for doing it, but you could face termination from your job.

PennsyPlinker
August 16, 2006, 12:14 PM
Well, employers/privaye property, etc is a totally different thing.

And this is where it gets real sticky. I am self employed, so no problem there. I keep a gun in my workplace, and if someone doesn't like that, they don't need to come in there. I take one with me wherever I go.

My wife's situation is much different. She works for a large company which has its office in the middle of a small city. There are lots of bad people there, and it is getting worse all the time. While the parking garage is technically private property, it is accessible to the public - unsavory characters have no problem getting in if they want to. And this is not to mention her travel to and from work, stopping at other places along the way, etc.

This shortsighted policy does absolutely nothing to make their employees safer, and in fact, makes life more dangerous for all of them. It will not prevent a disgruntled worker from bringing his gun to work to commit mayhem if he (or she) gets the idea in their head. I have debated this with HR types in the past, but I all ever get in response are platitudes. :banghead: Of course, this is one of the big reasons I am self employed. I got my first concealed carry permit when I was responsible for over one millions dollars of electronics inventory. My boss asked me why I wanted a gun when company policy was to let the bad guy have whatever he wanted. I told him I had no problem giving the bad guy my keys, alarm codes, whatever, but I drew the line at accomodating the bad guy who felt the need to knock me on the head in the process. I actually do have a big problem with giving the bad guys what they want. I think if we had more heads on pikes, there would be a lot less trouble downtown. :evil:

Beren
August 16, 2006, 01:09 PM
My Allegheny County LTC simply reads "protection." I haven't really given it much thought other than that, but then again, I don't hunt either. (Except for paper plates.)

22-rimfire
August 16, 2006, 01:19 PM
I think some of you are confusing two different issues. One issue is legal concealed carry of a loaded firearm and the other is the general carry or transport of a firearm. One requires the carry permit and the other does not. A loaded firearm in your vehicle is generally considered cocealed. Some states where open carry is allowed will allow the loaded firearm that is visible (say on the seat). Also, a loaded shotgun is generally not legal in most states if in the vehicle unless open carry is legal.

Try explaining to the police why your gun that is supposed to be unloaded is loaded in your vehicle when you don't have a carry permit. That was 75% of the reason I got the carry permit. I just didn't want to be hassled with whether or not a handgun is loaded inside the vehicle vs unloaded and useless in a defensive situation. You just never know when your vehicle may be searched during a routine traffic stop because the person they are looking for looks like you or drives something similar to what you are in. They find a loaded gun, it is generally a felony and you will never be allowed to own a firearm again. Just not worth the risk! Get the CCW permit if you want a loaded gun in your vehicle or on your person.

geekWithA.45
August 16, 2006, 03:39 PM
I checked a bunch of them on my Delaware county application, but it came out with "Self Defense" in the reason slot.

That works for me.

The PA constitution provides that the citizens right to keep & bear arms for the defense of himself and his state shall not be questioned.

zoom6zoom
August 17, 2006, 07:51 PM
I think if we had more heads on pikes, there would be a lot less trouble downtown.

I may have just found my new sig line!

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