Are you a Sheepdog?


PDA






TonyB
August 16, 2006, 09:32 AM
Another post got me thinking about the whole "sheepdog" thing....My wife goes to a ladies church meeting on monday nights.She had mentioned that when they are leaving it's dark and they're pretty much by them selves going to their cars.It just so happens that I'm coming back from IDPA and go right past the church as they get out.So I have made it a habit to stop by and "patrol" the parking lot as they all leave.The only ones who know why I'm doing this,and that I am armed are my wife and the Pastor and his wife(who leads the class)..not tooting my own horn,but it does feel like the right thing to do.Anyone else do this kind of thing?
Now that the Pastor knows I CCW,he kind of looks at me for "security" while at church too....

If you enjoyed reading about "Are you a Sheepdog?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
RandomAvenger
August 16, 2006, 10:58 AM
Does that make you a sheepdog or a stalker? :D

MissileCop
August 16, 2006, 11:07 AM
GOOD Boy! *scratches behind TonyB's ears* :D

Give yourself a Scooby Snack! LOL

Thanks for taking a few moments of your time to make sure that others stay safe. Society always needs more folks like you, and us.

Stay safe.

Stiletto Null
August 16, 2006, 11:48 AM
So vigilantism is illegal...

...but if something ever happened, and you somehow wound up in court for something related to being a sheepdog, I doubt any jury would ever want to convict.

***

Some of my gun purchases are heavily geared toward n00b-friendliness, because I want to be able to get my friends into shooting. Does that count at all?

TallPine
August 16, 2006, 12:00 PM
Just for my own "flock" and maybe a few others...

I consider that anyone invited onto my property is under my protection while they are here. And one of our former "next door" neighbors (they have since moved) drove truck and I repeatedly told his wife that she could call me anytime day or night if she had "security" problems (1/4 mile away vs. 25 miles away for deputies). There were reasons for that, since we both had a common neighbor who was a persistent problem.

But ... I am becoming more and more intolerant of people who won't take any steps towards maintaining their own security ... like this pastor of yours - how come he schedules a late evening meeting and doesn't think about providing for their security...? :uhoh: (or maybe he just sits home and prays for them...? :rolleyes: )

TonyB
August 16, 2006, 12:01 PM
The only time I flet "stalker like" was one night when my wife didn't go to the class,but I went anyway to make sure everyone was cool,and one by one,as they came out,the ladies said"Oh,Deb's not here tonight."They either thought I was a stalker,or had NO comunication with my wife...actually I think at that point alot of them started to figure out why I was there.;)

Rickstir
August 16, 2006, 12:07 PM
Devil's advocate here, what if the police ask what you are doing? Worse, what if you actually intervien and shoot somebody? How will you answer his attourney's question in the civil suite of Who died and made you the great protector? Do you always go around looking for trouble?

I can see how good intentions can go very wrong here.

srtboise
August 16, 2006, 12:17 PM
Devil's advocate here, what if the police ask what you are doing? Worse, what if you actually intervien and shoot somebody? How will you answer his attourney's question in the civil suite of Who died and made you the great protector? Do you always go around looking for trouble?

I can see how good intentions can go very wrong here.

wouldnt the truth work here? i get the impression that most, if not all, these ladies know him as does the pastor. on the nights that his wife is there nobody can blame a husband for stopping to make sure his wife got into her car safely. for the nights that his wife is not there the explanation is almost as simple...'this is a church group my wife regularly attends and i have formed friendships with these ladies. i sleep better at night knowing all of them got into there cars safely'. after establishing a reasonable explanation for being there the use of deadly force can be used to defend yourself AND others in most cases.

since most, or all, of these ladies know him all the cop/da has to do is ask a couple of them.

steve

jlbraun
August 16, 2006, 12:19 PM
I actually started describing myself as one before I either read that military officer's piece about them or owned guns at all.

So yeah, I'm one.

GEM
August 16, 2006, 12:22 PM
Just don't try to sniff them when they are leaving. :D

Sorry!

I've done similar things - wait, not the sniff - but hung out when the kid was getting off work late.

arthurcw
August 16, 2006, 12:32 PM
I used to have a thing about sheep but the therapy worked and the meds are great. kinda like Flintstones Chewables. I never think about their wooly coats... and...and… Little mournful "baaaaah's"... Um... never. NURSE RATCHET! MEDS STAT!


Seriously... I protect "mine and mine only." I hate that, but that is the only group of people I feel comfortable protecting given society's penchant for blaming the victims or crime. I have a family that cares for me and part of protecting them is coming home alive and not endangering our future by intervening in a situation in which I am not directly involved. No heroics from me.

If my wife was at the meeting then I'd be there in a hearth beat. If she's not there, then maybe they should not be meeting that late without escorts. I know... I am not proud of this. I think it sucks. But I also know that some DA or Civil Attorney would say I was there looking for trouble and if I was so concerned why didn't I call the Cops.

I won’t go and be a security guard in a potentially rough situation if my interests are not involved

On a side note. If something “goes down” near me (and I mean at that moment and within yards of me) and I have family members; Priority #1 is getting them out alive. If I’m alone, Priority #1 is getting out alive myself. If I can do that and stop what ever it is that is happening (provided it’s something that could indeed be helped by me anyway), then I will try. Or I might just pee my pants and run… I hope I never find out.

Justin
August 16, 2006, 05:29 PM
Truth be told, I utterly detest the term "sheepdog."

It's condescending.

I have no desire to herd other humans or treat them like a flock in any way, shape, or form.

Being armed reduces the liklihood that those around me will be victimized, but that doesn't make them any less human.

JesseJames
August 16, 2006, 05:33 PM
Does the pastor say "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!"?

akodo
August 16, 2006, 07:05 PM
no one would think it odd for a man to walk a few blocks to church/school/job to walk his wife home after dark. This is excersizing caution. Same with showing up in a car, or whatever. The fact you have a gun is irrelavant (well, until you need one!)

El Tejon
August 16, 2006, 07:20 PM
Certainly not! Sheepdog implies that I have some sort of duty or obligation to protect others who are nothing more than livestock and not free individuals.

I'm not a "sheep dog". I see myself as a ram, a well-armed and trained ram.:neener:

Correia
August 16, 2006, 07:31 PM
I thought you were a badger?

BullfrogKen
August 16, 2006, 07:37 PM
Justin said: Truth be told, I utterly detest the term "sheepdog."

It's condescending.

I have no desire to herd other humans or treat them like a flock in any way, shape, or form.

Being armed reduces the liklihood that those around me will be victimized, but that doesn't make them any less human.

I feel the same way. I disagree with a lot of what Grossman has said, but this one I disagreed with the most.

If I'm present when something happens, while I don't have a policy of charging in to help strangers, I won't necessary wash my hands of the situation and ignore it, either. I guess, as in life, what I might choose to do is going to always be case specific. Just because I'm not going to touch rounds off doesn't necessarily mean I have to abandon good people to evil . . .


I have a problem with adults who refuse to take responsibility and an interest in their own self-preservation, and certainly that of their family. I would have to say I'd be much more predisposed to a higher degree of participation for those who are for whatever reason unable to do so for themselves, then those who are simply unwilling.

the 22 junkie
August 16, 2006, 07:53 PM
I don't see myself as a sheepdog, per se, if I had to consider myself somekind of protector of others, I think I'd consider my self more of a Catcher in the Rye...
I better watch myself though, I remember what the last Catcher in the Rye fan with a gun did. :uhoh:

El Tejon
August 16, 2006, 07:53 PM
Yes, I am a badger, but it's been a long day digging for voles, moles, and what not. I long to run free on top of the earth.:D

TonyB
August 17, 2006, 09:42 AM
While I'm not looking for trouble..and don't think of myself as "the great protector",I will protect my wife and if need be the other women of my church w/out hesitation.(plus just being there is probably enough to keep the riff raff away)
I used the term "sheepdog" because it's two fold....church members are often refered to as a flock or sheep..the Pastor is Shepherd.I'm not the Pastor,so I figure sheepdog is closer.
And Yeah,if the Police do happen by,the truth will work...It's not like I'm some stranger just sitting outside in his car.I attend the church,the ladies know me and the Pastor knows I'm there.

Lone_Gunman
August 17, 2006, 10:30 AM
Truth be told, I utterly detest the term "sheepdog."


Me too! For several reasons:

I am not responsible for anyone but myself and my family. If another person choses not to defend themselves, that is their right as a free-thinking individual. It is condescending to suggest that they need or want your help. If I see someone in a bad situation, I would help them out, but I am not going to out on patrol looking for people to save.

I am not a police or mall-ninja wannabe. I think you might be if you go out on patrol looking for someone to defend. Could a desire to want to do this be a symptom of Don Quixote Syndrome?

I think some of the people on internet forums who claim to be sheepdogs would probably just run away at the first sign of trouble anyway.

Vitamin G
August 17, 2006, 01:26 PM
Badgers? Badgers??? We don't need no steenking Badgers!



Anywho, I guess if you prefer the "sheepdog", i will only protect MY herd. Walking friends home, co-workers whom i am close with, etc. Mainly people I'm close enough to that I'm reasonably certain wouldn't send me the dry cleaning bill and sue me for "emotional distress" if i ever had to shoot someone actively trying to rape them.

think some of the people on internet forums who claim to be sheepdogs would probably just run away at the first sign of trouble anyway.

As well most of us should. Not my herd, not my business (for the most part). Then again, having never been in that situation, its possible that my conscience overcomes my sense of potential civil litigation and help a stranger. Its equally just as possible I tactically wet myself and run as my friend gets murdered in a dark alley. All i can do is train and pray neither happens

tellner
August 17, 2006, 02:37 PM
Add another to the group that hates the "Sheep, sheepdog, wolf" crap.

We're not dogs. We're not sheep. We're human beings. Most of us anyway. I'm actually a giant frog :p Point is, all of those animals are largely hardwired in their responses to the world. We have large brains and flexible behavior.

The whole metaphor is pretty dangerous if people start taking it seriously. After all, would you expect a dog or a wolf to obey laws that apply to sheep? Of course not. It excuses bad behavior on the part of the cops. After all, they're in charge of the sheep. It goes a long way towards excusing the criminals. It's only natural that wolves should prey on the flock. The predators are just doing what they're built for. No shame, no blame. One of the flock rises up and kills a predator? Why, that's unnatural. Sheep are sheep. Dogs are dogs. Gotta do something about crazy sheep like that, kill them or at least castrate them so they won't pass it on.

Let's try another one....

How about Cape Buffalo? They eat grass and live in herds. Lions give them a wide berth unless there is an awful lot of lions. Buffalo have a very limited sense of humor about lions and hyenas and gang up on them when attacked.

Hell, how about wild sheep, real sheep? Let a coyote come near a flock of bighorns. What happens? If it gets too close the lambs will huddle in the middle. The ewes will surround them with horns pointing out. And the ram will probably smash the bravest coyote flat. It's only selectively designed wool and mutton machines that have forgotten how to defend themselves.

JesseL
August 17, 2006, 03:15 PM
I think I share more philosophical kinship with a porcupine:D

If you enjoyed reading about "Are you a Sheepdog?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!