California, Again


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ORAG
August 16, 2006, 10:57 AM
I cannot understand why peope live in California. Here are a couple of reasons

When my dad went to California to get a job during WWII, he was hired by one of the Airplane Mfg plants. At the end of the hiring line there was a Highway Patrolman issuing tickets to people that had a job in California and no CA License to operate a Motor Vehicle.

When I was stationed in California in the 60's (RVN 68), I was told by my girlfriend's family that I had to have a CA License. Most states will let servicemen get by if they are licensed in their home state. I went in to the License office and asked about getting a CA License. I was a 2nd Lieutenant on orders for Vetnam and they told me that becaue I was under 21 I would have to write my parents for permission to get a CA license. Stupid, stupid, stupid...

Finally I cannot understand how 1500 sq feet of house in California can be worth four times what a house in Kansas costs.

I do understand why a lot of people retire from there and move to other places.

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dracphelan
August 16, 2006, 11:01 AM
Finally I cannot understand how 1500 sq feet of house in California can be worth four times what a house in Kansas costs.

Because people are willing to pay that much. I've seen similar things happen in other parts of the country. What was once a modest low-middle income (with matching prices) neighborhood becomes fashionable and housing prices are double what they were a few years ago and the people who used to live there can no longer afford the property taxes and have to move.

ryoushi
August 16, 2006, 11:02 AM
http://home.earthlink.net/~wwclick/BigSurCarmel/VSTAPT.JPG
Big Sur, California

crazed_ss
August 16, 2006, 11:18 AM
California is a nice place to live. San Diego is an stunningly beautiful city. The weather is great and the women are beautiful. I can drive with my T-Tops off year-round :)

I know many people here arent a fan of Mexico, but I tell you.. Baja is a great place to chill. I spend the entire weekend in Baja just soaking up the sun on the beach, drinking coronas, and eating tacos.. it's theraputic. :)

Then there's the bad stuff like the insane real estate and AW ban. Sometimes I think "I have to get out of this place!!!" .. and then I take a drive up highway 101 and I think "Man, this is just too nice to leave"

Hard to explain man..

Punkermonkey
August 16, 2006, 11:20 AM
Legal and Political
Get informed on issues affecting the right to keep and bear arms and other civil rights. Coordinate activism, debate with allies and opponents. Discuss laws concerning firearm ownership, concealed carry and self-defense.

With all due respect, please do not bash California. It can be a very nice place to live.

AJAX22
August 16, 2006, 11:28 AM
California is an awesome place, its just being legislated into the ground.

If it wasn't as nice as it is, we wouldn't be spending so much time and energy trying to work around the AW laws.

Saying, oh just move then you can get whatever you want sounds nice, but CA is a nice place to live once you get outside of the Urban centers.

What california needs is to be split into three states, So Cal, Centeral Cal and Nor Cal. It has three distinct political/social atmospheres and distinct demographics.

So Cal would rappidly turn into an extension of mexico with the loss of tax dollers from the rest of the state.

Central cal would stay just about the same (real estate would skyrocket), and nor cal would be more rugged and independant, and probably start allowing Full autos and will issue CCW.

Harley Quinn
August 16, 2006, 12:08 PM
First and foremost.

Funny thing about rights, it is an issue that will never be settled.

Right to be able to walk down a street is a biggie and not get shot.

Funny you are way more likly to be hurt, killed in a car crash. So if you wonder why they have so many people, it is because of the huge economy.
The ability to make more money, spend more, and have more, to do.

If you are happy with just a gun state, there are plenty out there.

There is only one California, and it is the 7th largest economy in the world, or so they mention.

When you are that big, things get done differently, than a state that only has a population of a few million.

Los Angeles alone has a population of 13 million and that is not including the surrounding small incorporated cities.

So yes, the best thing that can happen to this engine, is to slow down. Please don't move here, visit and leave.
That is what they told me in Texas.

No problem, I'll take California anytime.
Many have moved to Florida to get away from the responsibility of paying their bills.
O.J. is not alone there. That is a good state for guns, go there if that is your main concern in life.

HQ:)

The-Fly
August 16, 2006, 12:17 PM
as a native of Cali who fled 3 years ago, I have mixed feelings about the state. On one hand, I loved the beauty of it. On the other hand, i despise the socialism and yuppist overgrowth thats over run San Diego (my native city), and has turned it from a decent town into just another burb of LA. Factor in the insane cost of living, taxes, crappy gun laws, the threat of Mexico over running southern cali at any moment, crime, etc, etc, etc, and its no wonder so many natives are fleeing.

Fortunately I found equal beauty in Colorado, smaller government, few gun laws, etc. All I got to do is keep the yuppies back in LA where they belong :D

Car Knocker
August 16, 2006, 12:18 PM
IBTL

Thefabulousfink
August 16, 2006, 12:20 PM
Ryoushi,
http://www.atpm.com/10.01/oregon-coast/images/haystack-rock-closer.jpg

Haystack Rock, Cannon Beach OR.

WA and OR have beutiful country and a much lower %Crazy than California.:D

Frog48
August 16, 2006, 12:26 PM
California is beautiful, and a great place to visit.

However, I dont think I'd choose to live there, due to the high taxes, high cost of living, and the oppressive government.

Correia
August 16, 2006, 12:29 PM
I'm a native Californian, born and raised. My wife was also raised in California. The majority of our family is still there. I moved to Utah about ten years ago.

That said, I DESPISE California.

Absolutely hate the place. I even hate visiting.

My home area has sunk into a pit of crime and poverty. Same with my wife's home town, only there people pay insane sums of money for the privledge of being commuter distance to their job. There are people commuting from my home town to go to the San Jose area to work. That is a 2 hour drive! But at least then they can live in something better than a shack for half a million dollars.

True, California is probably one of the most beautiful places on Earth. Sadly, the people who run the show are insane.

It isn't just about guns, that had nothing to do with me moving away. My family were farmers, and that got legislated out of existence also. They left first. I stayed there to go to college. I was the victim of a totally random violent crime, and at that point decided that California just plain sucks, so I moved.

California has more rights for criminals, lunatics, homeless people, and illegal aliens than it does for the actual tax paying citizens who live there.

There are lots of good people in California, in fact, some of the best that I've ever known. It is too bad that they are so horribly outnumbered.

Punkermonkey
August 16, 2006, 12:33 PM
Fink - It sure is nice, but we have better signs

http://www.lapublichealth.org/eh/progs/envirp/rechlth/oceanwhitesign.jpg

http://www.lapublichealth.org/eh/progs/envirp/rechlth/oceanbrownsign.jpg

http://www.lapublichealth.org/eh/progs/envirp/rechlth/ocean%20yellowsign.jpg

:neener:

ArmedBear
August 16, 2006, 12:35 PM
I'm 40, and I was born here.

Once upon a time, there was a buzz in the air. Apart from silliness like the drivers' licenses, which frankly didn't impact to many people, the state felt free. Houses by the beach were cheap. It seemed like every garage had someone tinkering with some new invention or hobby. At home, tinkerers gave birth to the dune buggy, the hot rod, the modern surfboard, the hang glider. At work, they developed PCs, airplanes (even Charles Lingbergh's plane was built in San Diego), miracle drugs, and Weatherby Magnums. Athletes invented a lot of today's sports, and discovered physical fitness as a part of a long, rewarding life. Artists and writers made places famous; Hollywood was once a locus of great innovation. The Libertarian Party was founded here.

Now, we can't light fireworks on the 4th of July, our cars must be inspected by the state, surfing is largely regulated and sometimes banned by lifeguards, we're the only state outside the northeastern quarter of the US without "shall-issue," hell, a number of cities have even banned smoking outdoors. On most of our beaches, you can't play fetch with your dog, even in January when no one is around. There are signs at big, empty grass parks that say, "No Ball Games, Practice or Play without Permit." The sheer number of petty laws regulating our every activity is astounding, and the legislature passes 4 new ones PER DAY. The City and County fill in any gaps.

The spirit of innovation has been replaced by the spirit of authoritarian socialism. I'm not saying we're the USSR yet, but the spirit is there. The place is turning into an Atlas Shrugged world, surviving largely on momentum.

I can still surf, hunt, fish, mountain bike and ski on the same day here. Last year, we snowshoed through a quiet forest, then dropped down into town, put on shorts and ate burgers at a crowded, fun outdoor place with music blaring. This county alone has 13 of the 17 types of ecosystems; it would be worth being here just for the photography opportunities.

If you don't know why people want to live here, then you haven't been here. (Not all of the place is this nice, though, that is true.)

However, I got to see it 40 years ago (I can remember 35), and compared to that, it really IS disappointing.

ryoushi
August 16, 2006, 12:40 PM
Right, no yuppies in Colorado. Ever been to Boulder?

http://www.terragalleria.com/images/us-ca/usca30048.jpeg
Santa Cruz, CA

Harley Quinn
August 16, 2006, 12:51 PM
I hear you. Must have been close to Sacto. :(

HQ:)

Correia
August 16, 2006, 01:01 PM
I'm from the San Joaquin Valley. My wife is from outside of San Jose.

It really does make me sad. I'm ten years younger than Armedbear, but I've seen the same kind of thing happen.

BrennanKG
August 16, 2006, 01:07 PM
My wife, daughter and I are native San Diegans, but we'll leaving for San Antonio as of next month. There are many factors involved: job opportunities, housing, crime rates, firearm laws.

We're going to miss California in general and San Diego in particular, but this is a good move for us.



B.

Liberal Gun Nut
August 16, 2006, 02:37 PM
California can be fixed:

http://californiaccw.org

30Cal
August 16, 2006, 02:59 PM
It's not as bad as you'd think. When I moved here a couple years back I was floored to find out I could shoot a highpower match any weekend day of the year without driving more than one hour. Two in January were cancelled for rain. None for snow and none for thunderstorms.

littledoc
August 16, 2006, 03:04 PM
I first came to southern California in the early/mid 80's to visit my future wife's family. It was a beautiful place. Vibrant and alive. We moved out here in '99, expecting the same thing. Not even close, the fruits and nuts had taken over.

It is still a beautiful place, but below the surface it is rotten. They still cling to the "7th largest economy..." crap, but that is false. Manufacturing has moved out and the only true income that is here anymore are the ports. The biggest employer is the government. California would never be able to stand on it's own if they were not part of the US. The infrastructure is about gone. We can't even produce our electricity and our water comes from out of state. The freeway system -once the crown jewel- is in such disrepair that it can never be made right again.

The tax burden is oppressive, but the money goes to "benefits" and gov't employees salaries. The various bureaucracies are bloated. There are over 1700 positions in Los Angeles County alone where they make over $200,000.00 a year. For a county job.

Peace Officer status is very highly sought after. It offers a special status in California. It seems that many state bureaucracies have there own police force as well. Even LA County lifeguards are peace officers. All of them, with commensurate pay. The county has the Sheriff's Department, as it should, and the County Police, a whole other department. I don't even want to get into the school police, where a school district may have it's own police force, some with their own SWAT team. Every department with any oversight over anything has a police force. Don't get me wrong, I am very pro law inforcement, but it is ridiculous here. It is only a symptom, but one I though folks could relate to. Every "department" has to have it's administration and support.

Whenever there is a cut in personnel, it always comes from the rank and file. The cop on the street, the firefighter, the teacher. The apparatchiks keep their high paying jobs.

It's a shame that California is so far gone, but as everywhere else in the world, socialism is crumbling. Many thought that Arnold could do something. But it's not the Governor, it's the legislature. And until the voters stop voting for the free money, it'll only get worse.

Rant out.

50 Freak
August 16, 2006, 04:03 PM
I still love CA.

CA offers good weather, good food, hot women and a big one in my book....FAMILY. Can't just pick up and leave the extended 50Freak clan behind you know.

I have a home worth 7 figures and a 6 figure salary, a good wife and a beautiful ankle biter. I get to travel 2 times out of the country every year on vacation. Living and working in CA affords me all this.

Life is good. Why would I leave CA just so I can have a CCW (oh wait, I already have a CCW) or for AW's (oh wait, I do have grandfathered AW's and 50's). Only thing I want for is a Class III (am working on that right now).

Some of us have it pretty good here and will continue the fight

Zundfolge
August 16, 2006, 04:03 PM
The Libertarian Party was founded here.

:scrutiny: The Libertarian Party was founded in Colorado.

http://www.lp.org/organization/history.shtml

Right, no yuppies in Colorado. Ever been to Boulder?
One can still CCW without a permit in their vehicle on the streets of Boulder.

romma
August 16, 2006, 04:18 PM
we're the only state outside the northeastern quarter of the US without "shall-issue," Well Ct,Me,Nh are shall issue and VT is unregulated... :evil: Also don't forget IL and Wi are No issue along with HI being may issue...

ArmedBear
August 16, 2006, 04:45 PM
The Libertarian Party was founded in Colorado.

Sorry, I was thinking of their first Presidential candidate, who came from near my hometown, which was also the epicenter of the campaign at the time, AFAIK.

bg
August 16, 2006, 05:35 PM
California is an awesome place, its just being legislated into the ground.
Now however did you come to that conclusion...? :rolleyes: >

http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/billtrack/upcoming.html

Seriously the legislature is off it's freakin' rocker. Way too much
time on their hands. Just ck out some of the bills pending in the
link above..Cripes.

PinnedAndRecessed
August 16, 2006, 07:47 PM
I lived in Kal until late last year. Moved to Tulsa.

From my front yard I could see both the Sierras and the Coastal Mountain Range.

In just a couple hours I could be at the ocean (San Fran), Yosemite, Sequoias, or Tahoe.

Fresh fruits and veggies year round. And I loved taquarias and taco trucks.

But I missed being able to buy P&R Smith and Wessons.
And I hated the ridiculous gun shows.
And I'm fully convinced Sacramento is going to eliminate private ownership of firearms, somehow.

Now I can buy all the P&Rs my little heart desires. And there's another gun show here in Tulsa this weekend. (Looking for a Diamondback 22, four inch, also illegal to import to the PRK.)

The gun shows here are great. The first one was 4000 tables. That's big. And guns, too. Not tshirts and jerky.

This weekend is 2000 tables.

But I still miss the food. :)

RustyFN
August 16, 2006, 08:05 PM
I'm with Correia on this one. I grew up in the bay area. California doesn't have anything I want. I wouldn't go back if it wasn't to visit family. Even then I try to limit that to 5 years. Everybody is in a hurry to go nowhere. If you want to go do anything you are lucky if you can park within 1 or 2 miles. I didn't leave because of gun laws. I just couldn't take the BS any more. For those of you that are happy there, that is great.
Rusty

Dirty Bob
August 16, 2006, 10:03 PM
I was born in San Francisco, on the panhandle of GG Park, just over a block from Haight and Ashberry. I left CA in 1990. For me, the straws that broke the camel's back were car insurance and the end of private FTF gun sales. The insurance thing was the non-owner's insurance. I wanted to live in SF (I was working temp for Bechtel) and rent a car when I needed one, but not have to pay the obscene parking and insurance on a regular basis. I was informed that I would lose my license unless I kept non-owner's insurance. What BS!

The excuse I used to leave was that there are almost no jobs for librarians in the state, and that's true. People stay in those jobs until they retire, so there's very little turnover. I finally got an offer from LA County (a documents job in Carson), but I had another offer in TN, and I left the beauty of the coast for the beauty of the Cumberland Plateau.

I now live in San Antonio, where I enjoy a much better lifestyle than I could have had in CA. God bless TEXAS.

And I didn't have to put up with gun-grabbing, tax hiking "Red" Davis!

BrennanKG: welcome to San Antonio! I think you'll love it here! I also lived in San Diego (Navy) and loved it. PM if you have questions about San Antonio.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

PinnedAndRecessed
August 16, 2006, 10:18 PM
I left the beauty of the coast for the beauty of the Cumberland Plateau.

No kidding. I spent seven years there. Visited Alvin York's homeplace. Hunted all over the place. Big South Fork. Pickett.

When I wanted to shoot I walked out the back yard.

Fish? My son and I drug the canoe across the street to the pond.

Hunt? Straight out the back door. Hang a left and walk till you get tired. Stop and wait. Something would come along.

bigcim
August 16, 2006, 10:40 PM
in parts of Los Angeles your not aloud to park your car on the street over night isn't that sad

mountainclmbr
August 16, 2006, 11:22 PM
I feel the same! I posted here about my company trying to pressure me to move to the commie state and what my reason for refusal should be. Art locked the thread as "personal problems". Don't feel bad if this gets locked too. Some of us love freedom. Lets move Art to ************! And no noisy complaints!!!!

johnsonrlp
August 16, 2006, 11:39 PM
I spent my first 17 1/2 years in Porterville, not far from the Sequoias. Since then I've been carrying Uncle Sam's M16 around the world. I've been everywhere from the desert to Waikiki. My wife also grew up in CA and both our families now live within a mile of each other a little further up the San Juaquin Valley. Our families want us to move back after I get out, and I know for sure I could get a CCW (got a hookup). But I don't really want to. It is a wonderfull place, but I've got a great uncle with a few hundred acres up in Oregon that I might have to build a house on. I was hopeing it would get better after Gay Dravis left but the Govenator doesn't seem to be improving things much. That said I'll miss it especially going up to Big Sur and Santa Cruz.

10-Ring
August 17, 2006, 01:13 AM
I find it a great place to live & a place I find worth working in to help bring about change

Valkman
August 17, 2006, 01:29 AM
If you don't know why people want to live here, then you haven't been here. (Not all of the place is this nice, though, that is true.)

Wrong! I was born in SF 50 1/2 years ago, left CA 3 1/2 and would not go back to that disgusting, illegal immigrant-filled state for anything. My God, people live in HOA's, cannot have many types of weapons and are swamped with illegals and talk about how nice it is. Sure, if you like not having any rights and half the people don't speak English.

I miss motorcycle riding in the Sierras, and that's it.

crazed_ss
August 17, 2006, 01:43 AM
lol.. I never have interact with illegals during my daily life. However, whenever I go to Las Vegas, I'm assaulted by illegals passing out porno flyers and advertisments for hookers. :)

Tim Currie
August 17, 2006, 01:54 AM
Some of these anti California comments are just plain ridiculous :rolleyes: :neener:

I like my California lifestyle thank you, I've seen some other places but none quite like home. I'm not saying I'll live here forever, there are a lot of places in this country and world I still want to see so who knows.

"Half the people don't speak english" hahaha... riiiiiight.

Anteater1717
August 17, 2006, 01:58 AM
I live in ca its nice the only reason why its a bad place is democrats they inhabit all three major cities if you think what there doing to guns is bad you should see what there doing to commercial salmon fishing .whatís wrong san Francisco la and san Diego if ca did not have those places it would be very similar to the Midwest if you donít think ca has redneck parts go to Barstow California my town is a failure we bought our ranch when land was kind of cheap but now the town is starting to surround it and worst of all is the damn tourists from Sacramento the other day our salmon boat was being attacked by sea lions and the tourists said it was mean to chase them away California would be better without environmental whackoís :fire: :cuss:

also the half English thing its more like 25% donít speak English I am not kidding I donít no much Spanish naturally I have picked up a little immigrants are a pain in the :cuss: one of my good friends joined the minute men I have an idea how about you people from the conservative states(the good states) come here and make this place livable :uhoh:
and almost 90% the rumors you here are accurate

you cant walk on the beaches you can barely surf no fire works legally;) that doesnít stop many people

you cant fish in 99% of the water ways you cant hunt in 99% of the land

crime is rampant the reason why is there are to many laws you cant even ride a skateboard in my town we started the anti smoking laws personally I donít care if you smoke it doesnít smell that bad

to many vegetarians telling me how and what i should eat my logic its all or nothing if you donít eat meat you shouldnít eat plants and live of supplements plants are living things too :D

i want to move to Oregon or someplace cheep in the Midwest or Nevada best state:)

homosexuality is way to common I donít have much of a problem with it its just the people who press it on you its horrible the homeless are everywhere

at night all i see is drunk people

there arenít to many pretty women on TV they donít show you the 400lb whales in bikinis :barf:

they blame every crime on guns and not the people you can get sued for anything and i mean anything :fire:

they make non farmed hard to get so no one has a bad impression of fish

do some good kill all the snowy plovers you can you cant go on the beaches here :fire:

sorry to rant:o

mike101
August 17, 2006, 02:25 AM
It sounds like a bunch of ultra-liberal politicians left North Jersey and took over California! You have my sympathy.

You had better do something before they mandate "Smart Guns" for everyone (if they ever start actually making the things), making every other type of handgun illegal, like they did in Jersey.

California sounds like it's full of idiots too, but at least you have weather and scenery.:D

Kim
August 17, 2006, 02:46 AM
The idea of stepping foot in CA scares the heck out of me. Their idea of police force scares me. NJ the same. I actually got screamed at by a NJ cop and had his spit all over my face. He was a blonde white guy (i'm a blonde white woman) and all I could think of was NAZI. Nope I will admit it scares me too much. I'l just stay in the boonies.

Anteater1717
August 17, 2006, 02:46 AM
:( mikeburk101 you are very right unfortunatly

Chaotic Mind
August 17, 2006, 04:18 AM
I love California, but I'm moving to AZ once I'm done with school till the gun laws change in Cali. Then I might move back.

Valkman
August 17, 2006, 07:06 AM
lol.. I never have interact with illegals during my daily life. However, whenever I go to Las Vegas, I'm assaulted by illegals trying to passing out porno flyers and advertisments for hookers.

Yep, and we appreciate all the money you guys bring us. No one that lives here EVER goes down to the Strip unless they have too, and we're moving to a much smaller town once our house is built. This place sucks too! :D

crazed_ss
August 17, 2006, 07:29 AM
You had better do something before they mandate "Smart Guns" ..

We're getting there!

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-guns10aug10,1,5286491.story?coll=la-headlines-california

:barf:

Mac Attack
August 17, 2006, 08:18 AM
I'm another born and raised Southern Californian (City of Huntington Beach) who left the sunny state for better opportunities. I miss California but know that unless you have a combined income of 7-digits or have been living there before the cost of homes went through the roof then it's just not an affordable place to live anymore. Too expensive, too many libs :barf: and too much gun control :mad: .... IMHO California is a Police state.:uhoh:

I can live with the gun control issue and political belief's but unless the price of homes goes down I never see myself moving home.

Harley Quinn
August 17, 2006, 10:40 AM
For the most part what is being said is, true and false. The state is an engine, not a caboose. So more problems. You can do more here, also the restrictions are in place. I believe that comes with the territory.

Go west young man! Well they did, now they need to return, whence they came. It will happen and that is good.

HQ;)

50 Shooter
August 17, 2006, 10:54 AM
Welcome to THR! ALL CALIFORNIA BASHING THREADS ARE OKAY!!!:cuss:

I'm always amazed that when someone bashes Kali the mods just let it go! This thread has nothing to do with L&P as was pointed out already!!!

With that being said, put up or ST*U!!!:barf:

http://www.daplane.com/50bmg/ds2006/spring/50cal.htm

ORAG
August 17, 2006, 10:55 AM
I thought the right to discuss issues of Civil Rights was one of the reasons for this forum. I could give a care less about all the beautiful views, it is the gross erosion of Civil Rights in California that bothered me. Live where you want but bad ideas have a way of spreading form the Left Coast to the Heartland and that was my point even if I lacked the elloquence to get that point across.

fastbolt
August 17, 2006, 10:58 AM
My family moved to CA sometime around 55-56, when I was little, so I grew up here.

Lived in both ends of the state over the years. It was a different place to live in the 60's & even the 70's ...

I'll be leaving CA when I retire, taking my retirement and tax dollars with me. Probably move to the Pacific NW, where we have family.

The state is still beautiful, though.

I wouldn't leave if it was still the same state in which I grew up ...

xd9fan
August 17, 2006, 11:46 AM
The place is turning into an Atlas Shrugged world, surviving largely on momentum.

This statement explains quite a bit.

Hope Tom McClintock (http://republican.sen.ca.gov/web/mcclintock/) runs for Gov. again.

Maybe RINO's like Sean Hannity wont trade the fame of Arnold for the principle of McClintock again.

EOD Guy
August 17, 2006, 11:59 AM
When I was stationed in California in the 60's (RVN 68), I was told by my girlfriend's family that I had to have a CA License. Most states will let servicemen get by if they are licensed in their home state. I went in to the License office and asked about getting a CA License. I was a 2nd Lieutenant on orders for Vetnam and they told me that becaue I was under 21 I would have to write my parents for permission to get a CA license. Stupid, stupid, stupid...

California doesn't now and never has required military personnel from other states that are stationed in California to obtain California vehicle registration or drivers licenses.

If they purchase a vehicle in California and wish to register it in the state, they will only be charged a registration fee (now $25.00) and will not be charged the property tax.

Correia
August 17, 2006, 01:19 PM
50 Shooter,

I don't see this as a bashing thread. And it is civil rights related.

A bashing thread is when a bunch of people gang pile on something and start tearing it apart usually without any good first hand info, and a whole bunch of sound bytes.

In this case, most of the bashing is coming from THR members who are native Californians, or lived there long enough to formulate an intelligent opinion on the subject.

Sadly California does effect civil rights in the rest of the nation.

ArmedBear
August 17, 2006, 01:26 PM
The state is an engine, not a caboose

It used to be.

Some believe it still is, but I think the last gasp of the real "engine" was the dot-com boom, which was, of course, largely based on BS that people were feeding themselves and others. I'm in IT. I believe in technology, wholeheartedly, as well as the true value of the Internet. That's not what the "bubble" was really about. We're not the caboose, but we're not the engine we used to be, either.

See my post, and that list of legislation. California has done a great deal to make itself a broken-down engine, with its state legislature treating business as the enemy, higher ed doing its best to encourage racial divisions, and K-12 turning in atrocious results despite huge budgets. There are more and more people homeschooling around here, in town, where there are plenty of schools nearby. And much of the next generation isn't staying here.

For those who complain about illegal immigrants: yes, it's true, our welfare state becomes a bigger problem when people run across the border and benefit from it, and when the people vote to stop that but the Federal courts tell us we are not allowed to stop it.

But the illegals themselves are willing to work pretty damned hard for a dollar. When you drive by a few able-bodied men, who were born here and had every opportunity the place offered, with cardboard signs begging for money at the freeway offramp, then you drive by the Home Depot down the street with a bunch of men who stand on the corner, waiting only for an opportunity to bust their butts for a few bucks, and begging for nothing, you wish you could deport some of the natives and replace them with illegal immigrants. I'm ambivalent about it, as many here are, for the reason I just outlined.

Still, I think California survives largely on momentum and its image, forged over the past 150 years, when life was much different here than it's become lately. And of course, it has natural beauty in abundance.

As far as being the 7th or 8th largest economy, that puts us right there behind Italy, and way behind France. Neither country is a real mover and shaker in the world of business growth and innovation; I wouldn't call either of them an "engine". They just have relatively large economies, in part due to history. I wouldn't get too confident in California's ability to remain an "engine."

ryoushi
August 17, 2006, 01:37 PM
I've got family in NoDak. They are scared to death to come to PRK and visit forcing us to make the pilgrimage back every summer. Get this they, are afraid of our world famous earthquakes. They can't understand we, along with many in PRK live nowhere near a faultline.

Now we might get an earthquake now and then in PRK but these NoDak yokelsregularly put up with tornadoes and floods and from the way they talk, 25% of the NoDak's population are child molestors. Hysterical gossip aside, if the tornadoes and floods don't get you the humidity, mosquitoes or mind numbing boredom will. And I haven't even mentioned the Lunar winters they have up there.

I've got a good friend who moved here (Clovis, CA) from Indiana about six years ago. Granted he's not a firearms enthusiast but he has family that he misses dearly back in Indiana yet he told me after spending a couple mild winters here in the central valley, he could never move back to the Midwest.

All you people up in Southern Oregon I'd join you up there in a minute if I could find a decent job. Portland is almost as bad as San Francisco though as far as I'm concerned.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/fishing/assets/images/LandscapeAndWaters/kings.jpg
Ryoushi's secret Smallmouth hole somewhere in California

50 Shooter
August 17, 2006, 01:40 PM
Being a native Californian here's my view, this state started having problems when Easterners moved here. They brought their Liberal views and Lawyers with them, now look what we have. Most only stayed long enough to ruin the state and then moved on.

I've said it before, if you don't like Kali laws, move here and help out! Not everyone can pick up all their belongings/family and move. Some of us actually love the "state" of California and have chose to stay and fight.

If you don't vote in your own state to keep out Kali's political views then you're just part of the problem. I've voted since I was 18, I write letters and make calls, it might not change their minds but I'm doing my part.

I don't see how complaining about the insane housing prices and drivers licenses has anything to do with L&P? If his dad got a ticket back then and didn't get the job he should have torn the ticket up and never looked back. Same with him when he was here in the 60's getting ready to ship out to Nam, what judge "then" would've let the ticket stand on those grounds?

ArmedBear
August 17, 2006, 01:59 PM
I've said it before, if you don't like Kali laws, move here and help out!

...and pay taxes that help keep that system going, since a huge chunk of that money is required to go to the unions that run the state and support the permanent Democrat legislature that makes those laws...

Not everyone can pick up all their belongings/family and move.

Bad planning: nobody else's problem. It will be hard for us to move if we do, for a number of reasons. But that's my own damned fault, not yours. Not everyone has chosen to set their lives up so as to be so tied to this, or any, location.

Some of us actually love the "state" of California and have chose to stay and fight.


It seems to me that the only "victory" will happen when California is left with a population that is 50% public employee union members and 50% illegal aliens. Then they can figure out just how, exactly, they'll keep up their own standards of living.

The unfortunate Catch-22 of politics is that staying means paying: paying taxes to support the status quo. Staying here, when moving in America is pretty easy, and there are other places to go, is tacit approval for what the legislature is doing, on the whole, no matter what you feel about it.

Mac Attack
August 17, 2006, 02:00 PM
Go west young man! Well they did, now they need to return, whence they came. It will happen and that is good.

Don't you mean Go South young man! :uhoh: j/k

ryoushi
August 17, 2006, 02:20 PM
Original Statement:
I cannot understand why peope live in California.
ORAG, the beutiful views as you call them are merely my way of conveying the quality of life available in PRK, part of the reason why people choose to live here.

We've had to fight the Democratic Legislature and their lapdog the DOJ for every inch of ground out here but you know what? I had a great time a few weeks ago helping a friend sight in his .50 Barrett at 500 yards! I can open carry whenever I'm up in the woods and I even own an AR15.

They have horible gun laws and illegals up the yazoo in other states too, yet it's always California that people love to dump on. Personally I think the crappy laws start in Boston and spread west.

Honestly the way I think it will all go down is this way. Eventually the State will go broke. The CALPERS and other Union pensions and health benefits will bankrupt the state and then the counties will not be able to provide all the entitlements to the poor. When that happens the very communities that are responsible for all this BS (SoCal, Bay Area) will burn. Out here in the valley, up in NoCal we'll hunker down till the fires go out at that point maybe things can change for the better politically. If not, maybe a new allignment will be in order, one that allows us to keep our water and controll our political landscape better than the current configuration.

dm1333
August 17, 2006, 05:53 PM
I have been stationed here for 3 years, have 1 year left and am looking at maybe a tour in San Diego. Yes, CA has a lot of problems and a lot of weird people. Yes, the cost of a house here is astronomical. And yes, I think there is way too much government and not enough real work being done. Having said that, it is not a bad place to live. There are a lot of regular people here. The gun laws are not quite as bad as everyone makes them out to be. I shoot on public land and there are a lot of active shooters (trap, skeet, IDPA) in the town where I live. There is a growing movement to take back the state from the politicians who have ruined it. Years from now I will look back on my time here with a lot of happy memories of the place and the people.

Ryoushi, don't be fooled by those pictures of Cannon Beach, OR. I lived in Tillamook which is about 15 miles south of there and the winters are long, gray and miserable. I used to make fun of SAD (seasonal affective disorder) but after 9 years in Oregon and Washington it ain't so funny anymore!

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