Westboro Baptist Church strikes again....


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JR719
August 16, 2006, 01:21 PM
After this mornings assignment I have to vent. These Protesters/Demonstrators were in town today for a soldiers funeral. If you are not familiar with them, they kick the flag around, and have children doing the same, sing gospel hymns with their own words. Basically, anti U.S. It goes deeper, but you get the idea.
I'm all for freedom of speech, but where is the limit? This is wrong, horribly wrong. And we had to protect THEM from the good guys today. They attempt to make L.E. loose their cool so they can sue everyone they can. Several in the group are Civil Liberties Attorneys (imagine that) so they know how to play the system.
Seems to me, if they want to act the way they do, they should be responsible for the backlash. If they tried that in any other country, they would not last very long. A line should be drawn somewhere, possibly kicking our flag around? Demonstrating at a funeral?
Sorry for the rambling and flying thoughts, just made it home from this and still fired up.

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No Quarter
August 16, 2006, 01:32 PM
Thankfully, freedom of speech is freedom of speech. They can do and say what they please - just like you can. Whether you agree with them or not, regulating what is "acceptable" is, for all intents and purposes, the same as throwing that freedom out the window.

Freedoms and rights are subject to dying the "death of a thousand cuts". Unless we protect them from even small regulation and restriction, they eventually disappear.

NQ

BrennanKG
August 16, 2006, 02:11 PM
I completely agree with your visceral reaction to those trolls, but I do feel their speech needs to be protected just as is ours.

We can't ever start picking and choosing the beneficiaries of our Bill of Rights.

dracphelan
August 16, 2006, 02:19 PM
I completely agree with you on the fact that they are scum. But, they have the right to say what they want. That's the reason I believe in and support groups like the Freedom Riders, who counterprotest against Westboro.

Jim March
August 16, 2006, 02:39 PM
When they focused on the funerals of AIDS victims, nobody outside of the gay world took much notice. When they picketed the funeral of Mathew Shepard, that was seen as "a bit much"...but it's these soldier's funerals that have really got people pissed off.

They've been utter scum for a very long time...all the way back to when Fred Phelps was Al Gore's Kansas state campaign manager in 1988.

Beren
August 16, 2006, 02:45 PM
"About 70 members of the leather-clad American Legion Riders from Kansas and Oklahoma revved their motorcycles for about 30 minutes, drowning out anything the church members tried to say."

God bless those riders. They've probably saved more than a few protesters from mutilation.

The protesters are cowards of the worst possible kind. Speech is /not/ unlimited. There are limits. Some states are considering laws that would prevent "protests" within a certain distance of the funeral. I support those laws for one reason, and one reason only - it's illegal to give the cowardly punks the broken noses they so richly deserve. I wasn't aware of this happening in the past, but it's as disgusting for those who died of AIDS as it is for soldiers killed in action.

BrennanKG
August 16, 2006, 02:52 PM
Beren,

I suppose we can forgive the Riders sparing the protesters from their well-deserved pummelling, since they are likewise saving the counter-protesters/grieving family from the legal repercussions of such an action.

So we take the bad with the good, right?
;)


B.

Phetro
August 16, 2006, 02:55 PM
What they are doing is absolutely reprehensible, and their right to do it is absolutely irrefutable. We are left to dislike them, but be thankful for their right to anger us--after all, were they not to have the right to speak their minds, neither would we have that right; then we'd all be up a creek!

71Commander
August 16, 2006, 02:59 PM
I have to go to a funeral this Saturday. Haven't looked to see if it's on their schedual yet. They were at the last one I attended.

Stickjockey
August 16, 2006, 03:08 PM
http://www.patriotguard.org

Ain't the First Amendment grand?

Don Gwinn
August 16, 2006, 05:23 PM
Jim's right about the levels of attention, and that is the only reason they're picketing soldier's funerals. Their taunts and songs are the equivalent of the school yard bully who would insult your mother to get a rise out of you. He didn't know your mother and had nothing against her; he wanted you to take a swing.

These people are doing the same thing. They don't believe their nonsense about soldiers, they just needed a new gimmick.

And yes, before anyone asks, I HAVE stood and listened to these people, so I know enough to have something to say. They were in Virden last spring.

Soybomb
August 17, 2006, 12:49 AM
I'm all for freedom of speech, but where is the limit? (snip) A line should be drawn somewhere, possibly kicking our flag around? Demonstrating at a funeral?
No offense, but that doesn't sound like freedom of speech anymore than "resonable gun control" sounds like "shall not be infringed." Freedom of speech doesn't just apply for things you like or agree with.

Ignore them, shun them, treat like them they're infected with ebola (please do infact), but don't support weakening the 1st amendment because you don't like what they have to say.

Liberal Gun Nut
August 17, 2006, 01:09 AM
They should have the right to free speech. That's what's great about this country. That's why this country is worth defending.

Diomed
August 17, 2006, 03:28 AM
They have an absolute right to free speech. The government has no place attempting to muzzle them.

If they piss off private citizens and get stomped, then hey, that happens. And hey, the police aren't obligated to intervene and protect them, the DA isn't obligated to file charges, a civil court judge isn't obligated to not throw the case out, and a civil jury isn't obligated to find for the plaintiff. ;)

JR719
August 17, 2006, 03:31 AM
I would first like to appologize. When I posted, I had just returned home from protecting the idiots and wanted them shut down.

I then returned to work and have just returned home again. After stewing on this all day, I was wrong to mention limiting the 1st amendment. Thank you all for helping point that out to me (I was a little on the upset side and lashing out).

Maybe the better solution.... If they want Police presence (for their protection), pay the off duty going rate per Officer. For protests of this magnitude (propensity for violence), around 30 or so Officers required minimum (Our safety too). If they choose to not pay for off duty Officers, they get the same service as everyone else. A car rolls by when able, and respond to emergencies. We'll show up somewhere after the riot, take a report, go to the next call. Protest at own risk.

Without protection, those :cuss: would not dare show up. I have to say though, love the way women and children are on the front line. Our protest was a tiny turnout of the idiots. 2 men, 3 women and a child... We were told another protest was going on somewhere else. They did not like the 500 foot rule. Bikers and fire trucks pretty well blocked their view :neener: .

I suppose to sum it up, I spoke too soon without thinking. Let them say what they want. I don't want to be told I can't say something.

Believe me, if you have not been to one of these things it is difficult to describe emotions. I really, really, have a problem with so called Americans cheering over an American soldiers death while preforming their duty. It burns deep thinking these --insert vulgar descriptor here-- are only able to do this because of brave men and women who gave their lives to afford the liberty to do so. Part of OUR liberty ought to be to beat these...... into a mud hole. Kicking and stomping OUR flag..... They did fold the flag neat as a bed sheet when they were done. Then loaded up in a nice new Honda Odessey.

If I can figure out picture posting again, I'll add a few shots.

Mr.V.
August 17, 2006, 03:50 AM
Well they're certainly pushing the limit of "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" when anyone within earshot is, at minimum, compelled to call them all f%#@faces....but sadly it still falls under the first's purview.

MrZ
August 17, 2006, 04:06 AM
"Thankfully, freedom of speech is freedom of speech. They can do and say what they please - just like you can. Whether you agree with them or not, regulating what is "acceptable" is, for all intents and purposes, the same as throwing that freedom out the window."

Negative.

Freedom comes with RESPONSIBILITY. Without responsibility freedom turns into anarchy.

Do people have the "right" to assemble in your front yard 24/7 and make noise, beat drums, give speeches over loud speakers? Remember, we have the "right" to peaceably assemble under the 1st amendment. What about the "right" of your neighbors to live in a neighborhood peacefully? Would the peaceably assembled masses assembled in your front yard infringe on their rights to get a good nights sleep? Yes it would.


There was legislation passed recently concerning military funerals that provides a timeline for protesters to do their "thing", while allowing the funeral proceedings to go on without interuption.

JR719
August 17, 2006, 04:12 AM
Here, they have to be 500 feet away. They only protested until the fallen soldier was taken from the funeral home to the church. Approx. 10 minutes after arriving at the church, the idiots left town (Police escort you know).

The Guy
August 17, 2006, 04:59 AM
I don't understand why the police need to be there? I mean, I can't get an officer for my own personal protection. I say "@#$% 'em. They are not so special. The police can show up later to draw the chalk lines and take statements just like they do for the rest of us.

Free speech is fine, but why they deserve police enforcing their right is obsurd. It sounds like they are taking our minimal protective force away from the duties they should be doing, increasing the risk that someone else may suffer from illigal activity durring that time.

Kinda selfish of them, eh?

JR719
August 17, 2006, 05:09 AM
The Guy,

Every hear... "hit the nail on the head"? I think you pretty much did that.

Chaotic Mind
August 17, 2006, 05:16 AM
And do these guys have guns or what? Or does this have something to do with the 2nd?

71Commander
August 17, 2006, 06:00 AM
And do these guys have guns or what? Or does this have something to do with the 2nd?

The person whom we are showing honor and respect to had guns until the day they died.

They were protecting our 2nd AND 1st.

Sistema1927
August 17, 2006, 08:59 AM
A little research into the Phelps-Roper gang (they are more a scam than a church) shows that they are a family full of lawyers. They do the most outrageous things, and when a community tries to shut them down they flock to court to sue.

These people are lower than pond scum (in other words, lower than normal lawyers), and I truly believe that there is a very hot corner of hell reserved for them.

Why they chose the label "Baptist" is beyond me, since they are nothing like any Baptist that I know, and I am one. That said, they do have a right to spew their hateful filth, with their rights and freedoms protected by the blood of those against whom they protest.

rev214
August 17, 2006, 09:17 AM
They have freedom of speech, but they don't have the right to be heard...

cmidkiff
August 17, 2006, 11:33 AM
They're giving the state of Kansas a real black eye...:fire:

Shun them, support the Patriot Guard, and pray for them to get what's coming to them in the end.:evil:

Missouri was trying to enact legislation that would prevent protests at/near a funeral in response to these creeps. Luckily, it failed. As abhorent as this group's garbage is :barf:... I'll support no law restricting the exercise of our constitutionally guaranteed rights.

Gray Peterson
August 17, 2006, 11:38 AM
First, the Patriot Guard Riders are an awesome group.

Second, the big elephant in the room is why Westboro is protesting.

ORAG
August 17, 2006, 12:13 PM
Shame on the Westborough Church in Topeka, Kansas. But shame on us for thinking they would be hurt by any overt act. I will promise you that they will own everything owned by anyone that ever touches one hair on their heads. They have taken the City of Topeka to Court and won so many times that no one will even try to do anything that will stop them. When they win in court they have a way of getting damages tacked on and they love it.
I agree that no one noticed when they picketed the funerals of Aids victims. They found our weak spot and boy can they exploit us. Thi nk about all the free publicity they get. Can't someone lock this thread?

Biker
August 17, 2006, 12:21 PM
I *do* hope they come to Idaho. There are some things worth a $500 fine and eight anger management classes at $40 apiece.

Biker:)

ID_shooting
August 17, 2006, 12:24 PM
Yup, they sure do have the right to free "speech."

Just like I have the right to look the other way when some one starts beating the tar out of them.

I also have the right to tell the police that I didn't see a thing.

Biker
August 17, 2006, 12:51 PM
We have a saying in these parts - Just because it's legal, don't make it right, and just because it's illegal, don't make it wrong.
I'll be on pins and needles until someone corrects my grammar and punctuation.
Biker:)

BrennanKG
August 17, 2006, 12:59 PM
ORAG,

I don't think anyone was implying the Westboro folk's cause/position/campaign would be hurt by overt action. You are of course completely right in your assessment that every bit of attention they garner is a victory in their malignant little book.

Thank goodness for the Patriot Riders though for whatever comfort they provide the families.


B.

A. Patriot
August 17, 2006, 01:31 PM
For those of you who are not familiar with this group, here are some of their websites: (WARNING: YOU MAY FIND THESE WEBSITES EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE!)

godhatesamerica.com/

godhatesfags.com/

godhatesfags.com/featured/epics/2006/20060809_oak-grove-ky-epic.pdf

godhatesfags.com/fliers/feb2006/20060225_typical-fag-soldiers.pdf

godhatesfags.com/fliers/aug2006/20060814_tracy-melvin-funeral.pdf


*Direct links removed. The last thing we need are these inbred jerks looking at their trackbacks and finding that they're coming from us.

The Guy
August 17, 2006, 01:45 PM
Good God, I feel the need to shower in clorox and rub my eyes with brillo pads!:what:

That is some of the sickest $&!* I have seen in the Lords name.

Kinda gives my right index finger an itch...

Zundfolge
August 17, 2006, 02:49 PM
And this is gun related how?



Every time someone posts about these schmucks it gives them just that little bit more publicity.




The only gun related discussion one could have of these people would just not be High Road material. ;)

Carl N. Brown
August 17, 2006, 03:57 PM
I was hoping these Westboro critters would go away.

They WANT to provoke a reaction, so the worst thing
you can do to them is IGNORE them.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect
a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic. It
does not even protect a man from an injunction against uttering
words that may have all the effect of force."
--U.S. Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr

It used to be that uttering "fighting words" -- using words
intended to provoke a violent reaction -- was a crime and not
a right. What Phelps is doing may be legal, but it aint right.

We ought to deny him what he wants: our attention.

Phetro
August 17, 2006, 04:07 PM
Shame on the Westborough Church in Topeka, Kansas. But shame on us for thinking they would be hurt by any overt act. I will promise you that they will own everything owned by anyone that ever touches one hair on their heads. They have taken the City of Topeka to Court and won so many times that no one will even try to do anything that will stop them. When they win in court they have a way of getting damages tacked on and they love it.

There are a lot of people in the world who are broke and own very little...

71Commander
August 17, 2006, 04:43 PM
They WANT to provoke a reaction, so the worst thing
you can do to them is IGNORE them.

That's exactly what we do with the Patriot Guard. We turn our backs to them.

agricola
August 17, 2006, 06:06 PM
If they piss off private citizens and get stomped, then hey, that happens. And hey, the police aren't obligated to intervene and protect them, the DA isn't obligated to file charges, a civil court judge isn't obligated to not throw the case out, and a civil jury isn't obligated to find for the plaintiff.

Thats what makes me so curious about this - you would have thought that someone would have filled them in long since past, and lets face it no jury in almost all of the world would convict a family member who assaulted someone picketing a funeral of a loved one.

Ironically were they to try this here in the UK they would probably be arrested for breaching the peace and thrown back over the pond without further ado (which is probably why they dont try it over here).

Still, at least when Phelps shuffles off the mortal coil there will be a large group of people, of various backgrounds, wanting to repay the favour.

Zundfolge
August 17, 2006, 06:55 PM
Ironically were they to try this here in the UK they would probably be arrested for breaching the peace and thrown back over the pond without further ado (which is probably why they dont try it over here).

I'd rather see them have a run-in with your Football Hooligans before the bobbies show up :evil:

gunsmith
August 17, 2006, 09:41 PM
Still, at least when Phelps shuffles off the mortal coil there will be a large group of people, of various backgrounds, wanting to repay the favour.

Chaotic Mind
August 17, 2006, 11:43 PM
The person whom we are showing honor and respect to had guns until the day they died.

They were protecting our 2nd AND 1st.
Look I served in the military, and I can't see how fighting in Iraq is protecting the 1st and 2nd amendments. I mean the whole war was based on crap. Those men should not even be dying in Iraq, Bush should go fight with his oil cronies instead of letting honorable people go die for his bullcrap. I haven't seen any Iraqi's over here trying to cut my tounge out or take my rifles. I've only seen the ATF trying to do that (the second part) so maybe our military should come back here and fight the ATF.

Jeff
August 18, 2006, 12:23 AM
The Westboro church is very offensive AND very active.

Therefore, sooner or later they will cross paths with someone who simply doesn't care, and has nothing to lose.

We will all hear about it then.

Yee haw.

hoppinglark
August 18, 2006, 01:16 AM
someone has bombed thier church,
IF somone does it again and gets it right,
maybe we can hold up signs that say
"Thank G_d for the Bombing of WBC!"
and see how they like it!

Liberal Gun Nut
August 18, 2006, 02:16 AM
maybe our military should come back here and fight the ATF.

You are right on in your post. Our soldiers there are dieing for nothing. They should be here, fighting the ATF, or they should be training safely on their bases, or whatever.

71Commander
August 18, 2006, 06:09 AM
I will play nice and say that your post is not worthy of a reply.

mike101
August 18, 2006, 07:00 AM
I think your post is worthy of a reply. You are absolutely right. We got rid of the Hussein family (they needed to be gotten rid of), now let's get the hell out.

Let's face it. If Iraq didn't have the world's cheapest oil, nobody would give a damn, least of all the Bush administration.

stevelyn
August 18, 2006, 12:53 PM
Chaotic Mind +1.

mike101
August 18, 2006, 01:19 PM
I clicked on the links above. Their website is one of the sickest things I've seen in a while.:barf:

I suppose they have a right to protest what ever they want, but certainly not where ever they want, like a funeral, for example.

I think God hates sick pups who pull things like this, in the name of their religion, a lot more than he hates America or gay people.:fire:

Snake Eyes
August 18, 2006, 01:27 PM
God hates sick pups who pull things like this, in the name of their religion

BINGO!

Man, if there is/are a/several God(s), I sure would like to hang out and watch some folks try to justify what they did in his/her/their name to said God(s).

I, however, am pretty sure I'm going to be burning in hell.

Haymaker
August 18, 2006, 01:43 PM
That the people of the United States of America can't rewrite the First Amendment to it's Constitution to bar this type of "Free Speech" - after all, the Liberals have been trying to do this with the right to keep & bear arms for mearly a century. A country that can ban the consumption of beveridge alcahol, can ban anything :evil: ....THEN We can Stomp em'!!!:fire:

Tokugawa
August 18, 2006, 01:54 PM
Two things on my mind-
#1 - yeah they have a right to protest and say whatever they want. But they have bad manners. My Dad would have stropped my butt for something like what they are doing, and he was not a whipping sort of guy. I am reminded of Tommy Lee Jones in the Lonesome Dove episode- "Can't abide a man with bad manners". They can say what the hell they want, but leave the grieving family alone.
#2- You all are close with the best thing you can do is ignore them- The best thing we can do is LAUGH at the pathetic little twerps.

Soybomb
August 18, 2006, 04:48 PM
NOWHERE is it Written
That the people of the United States of America can't rewrite the First Amendment to it's Constitution to bar this type of "Free Speech"
I'm actually pretty happy with my freedom of speech, religion, assembly being uninfringed. I'd no more like to see it revised and restricted anymore than I would like to see it happen with the 2nd amendment. I don't think anything good ever comes from taking freedom. Ymmv.

JR719
August 19, 2006, 02:15 AM
Soybomb,

Yes, lets keep freedom of speech. However..... Demonstrate at your own risk. There is no need for the police to protect the freak show. They should not be able to sue municipalities because they were beaten, vehicles destroyed and who really cares what happens to them. There little show cost this city a large amount of money to protect the idiots (who knows how many Officers at time and a half).

If they want a police presence, they can pay the off duty rate per Officer like any other business. The Cities should not be afraid of being sued by these morons. The Cities should be immune from liability. Everything they say makes true red blooded Americans boil.

I emailed the State chapter of the motorcycle organization that showed a presence. I thanked them for arriving and blah blah. I was surprised that I had a reply (very rapidly I might add). These guys do there best to "cover" the freak show for the grieving family. After what I observed and the email response, I fully support these people.

I suppose what it boils down to... There is a right way and a wrong way to make your point. I, like many have my gripes about the way things are and laws I don't like and don't believe in. All these morons are about is having their rights violated so they can sue and not have to get a job.

I may have already mentioned this, but the mayor of their city mailed ours appologizing for what we were about to have. That poor city has lost many suits from these people. And the ACLU backs them (hard to believe huh???).

What happened to majority rules??? These idiots are less than 1/1000% of the population. The rest want them shut up, but they keep winning law suits, what gives?

.41Dave
August 19, 2006, 03:01 AM
As reprehensible as these people are, "stomping" them while the cops look the other way as a means of getting around that whole inconvenient 1st A thingie is not a good idea. Thomas Paine said it best - "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression, for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach even unto himself."

mike101
August 19, 2006, 08:13 AM
I don't think it's oppression to keep these people away from funerals. They have a right to protest the war, but not to intrude on a grieving family. These families have an equal right to their privacy, at a time like that.

Most people in this country are against the continuation of the war, at this point, myself included. However, I think the vast majority of us would view this kind of behavior as reprehensible. These people are no better than neo-Nazis and skinheads. They are indeed of the same ilk.

More power to the Patriot Guard, for doing what the police should be doing, protecting the privacy of the families of these poor military people.

These idiots are doing the same thing a lot of people did during Viet Nam. They are blaming the troops. I thought we all learned what a big mistake that was. Evidently I was wrong.

JR719
August 20, 2006, 02:06 AM
41, It's not looking the other way while they get stomped. Why should the cities pay for them to have police protection? Yes, what they are doing definately invites violence... but... why should they be given a battery of Officers for free?

Mike, I agree! The Police should be getting rid of the freak show for the family of the soldiers. Problem is, the freak show is allowed to do what they do. And WE have to protect them, go figure.

After this, I very much admire the Patriot Guard. I would have liked to have been there drowning out what they were saying and blocking the view. I however, had to be out there keeping the rights of the freak show from being violated.

Nitrogen
August 20, 2006, 02:35 AM
I support 110% the rights of the westboro baptist chuch to be as ugly and deamaning as they want. It's one of the parts of having freedom of speech; you have to tolerate animals like them.

Fighting for their rights of speech wouldn't stop me from beating the snot out of them if I ever met one of them on a dark street, however. I would gladly spend some time in jail if it would lessen the pain a family of one of our boys or girls would have to deal with if these animals showed up at their funeral.

Not very "high road", admittedly, but I just don't care.

Doug.38PR
August 20, 2006, 02:38 AM
Westboro slander's the name Baptist and certainly slanders the name Christian. :mad: :mad: :mad: From what I have read of them, they are nothing more than a modern day version of the Abolishionist in the spirt of the like of William Lloyd Garrison, John Brown and the Unitarian Secret Six. They like to use "God" and "Jesus" by name but as our Savior himself said, "by their fruit you will know them." In the spirit of the Unitarian song Battle Hymn of the Republic, they seek to stamp out all evil (and consequently spread it). Historically fitting that they are out of Kansas (the bloody grounds of the Abolisionist activity). Their views of God and our place in the world has nothing to do with Bible Belt and other real orthodox Christian theology. Don't be fooled by those people y'all. Neither their actions nor their views have anything to do with Christianity.

mike101
August 20, 2006, 06:05 AM
No argument. They certainly have a right to assemble and protest. But, do they have the right to do it right on top of a grief-stricken soldier's family? Doesn't the soldier's family have a right to conduct a funeral in peace? Can't we keep them a few hundred yards away, at least out of ear-shot?

What if they gathered with banners that said "God Hates Jews", in front of a temple, or "God Hates Black People",in front of a predominately black church. Wouldn't that be considered some kind of hate crime? I think it probably would, as it should be. It should at least be sufficient to legally keep them a certain distance away.

Byron Quick
August 20, 2006, 06:25 AM
Let them have their say and their right to freedom of speech. Just don't send the police to protect. When the citizens from the soldiers' funerals stomp them into the ground, then have the police respond. And cite the protesters for incitement to riot. Their right to free speech would be perfectly protected. They would also be introduced to the concept that with rights comes responsibilities-and consequences.

If you want to use fighting words, don't be surprised when you wind up in a fight. Your fighting words started the melee? Sounds like incitement to riot to me.

I would see them beat to within an inch of their lives. And then charged. If convicted, I would see them imprisoned. If imprisoned, I would encourage them to continue their 'witnessing' amongst the prison population. When they were cut to pieces as a result, I'd transport them to the nearest hospital. Showing great support for their right to freedom of speech every step of the way from the initial protest to prison to hospital to morgue to funeral home.

I would encourage them to utilize their freedom of speech at every opportunity. I just disagree that my government has any obligation to stand between them and the consequences of that speech or to refrain from charging them with transgressions resulting from the exercise of that right.

I support peoples' right to protest in the middle of the street. I also support other peoples's right to use the streets for their intended purpose-vehicular traffic. When some protesters get mangled by an eighteen wheeler...sorry, that's a consequence of utilizing your right to protest in the middle of the street-idiots.

You wouldn't see many repeats of folks handcuffing themselves to gates, train tracks, and such if I was in charge of the response. The gates would open and close on the regular schedule, and the trains would run. Sure hope you're able to unfasten yourself in a hell of a hurry. And didn't make the error of handcuffing one part of your body to one leaf of the gate and another part of your body to the other leaf.

Balance in all things.

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