"Where you have guns, you often have gangs"


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Diomed
August 18, 2006, 04:35 AM
I guess this probably isn't news to anyone, but it did strike a nerve when I read it in the paper. Go after the inanimate objects instead of the actual perpetrators of crimes, always a winning strategy.

Gonzales lauds efforts against gun crime in Va. (http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149190019360)

BY REX BOWMAN
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER

Aug 17, 2006

ROANOKE -- U.S. Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales met with law-enforcement officials from across western Virginia yesterday and lauded them for their efforts to cut gun crime.

But he cautioned that more work needs to be done to cut the criminal use of guns in neighborhoods, an effort he deemed critical as western Virginia communities contend with drug trafficking and nascent gang troubles.

"We have a problem, no doubt about it," he said. "Where you have drugs, you often have guns, and where you have guns, you often have gangs."

Still, the attorney general was mostly upbeat. After meeting with local, state and federal officials at the U.S. Attorney's Office in Roanoke, Gonzales said he was heartened and gratified to learn they have been working together and sharing intelligence and resources to curb gun violence.

The federal government has pumped about $4 million in grants into western Virginia in the past five years as part of Project Safe Neighborhoods, an effort that targets guns. Since its inception in 2001, the nationwide project has funded the hiring of new federal and state prosecutors, the distribution of gun-lock safety kits and community-outreach programs.

In Roanoke, the police department used a $100,000 project grant to beef up citywide bicycle patrols. In Lynchburg, an identical grant was used to buy a vehicle for the city's anti-drug DARE program.

A key component of the program is the increased prosecution of gun crimes in federal court instead of state courts. Federal gun crimes carry stiffer penalties.

Between 1996 and 2000, the western Virginia district of the U.S. Attorney's Office averaged 87 gun prosecutions a year, said spokeswoman Heidi Coy.

Since 2001, when the project began, the office has averaged 193 gun prosecutions a year, she said, adding that certain prosecutors have been designated to handle gun cases.

And some people actually thought he'd make a good Supreme Court justice? :scrutiny:

I suppose then that the families of the people who have been killed recently in central Virginia as a result of high-speed police chases should hold the automobiles responsible as well.

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Liberal Gun Nut
August 18, 2006, 04:44 AM
You're taking him out of context. What he said was:

"Where you have drugs, you often have guns, and where you have guns, you often have gangs."

Yes he is blaming gangs on an inanimate object. That object is the drugs. To paraphrase / expand it: "Drug distribution often results in violent disputes over marketing territories. Violent disputes often lead to people deciding to acquire guns. Armed people who are in the drug business naturally form or join gangs."

What he's not saying is that if we took the profit out of selling drugs, no one would have violent disputes over marketing rights for the stuff, and gang members would not be able to afford guns.

And yes I am very very glad that he's not on the SCOTUS. I don't like Gonzales.

mike101
August 18, 2006, 05:37 AM
By taking the profit out of selling drugs, am I correct in assuming you would like to see drugs legalized?

Also, do you know of any politicians who are Democrats, but not Gun Grabbers? Kerry would be one, I suppose, although he did sign the AWB. He hunts, so he must have a rifle or two. However I'm mostly interested in those who are not after handguns, and actually support the RKBA (if there are any). We sure don't have any in NJ.

71Commander
August 18, 2006, 07:21 AM
Let me get this straight. Are you saying Kerry is NOT a gun grabber?

sterling180
August 18, 2006, 07:29 AM
That article is biased and poorly researched.If you have gangs and you have drugs(A deadly combination.)then the gangs can afford to buy guns,through using drug money.

Any gang member,will get a gun illegally anyway-so blaming firearms,is totally moronic-anyway.Enough said.:neener:

Typical Liberal policies,that are similar to the UK Labour party policies.

Silly man John Kerry,he shoots ducks as a recreational activity and should keep his mouth shut.The funny thing is that the antis target all and not just some,so because he shoots-he is a target.

mike101
August 18, 2006, 07:34 AM
Kerry goes whichever way the wind blows. I'm not really sure which category to put him in. As I said, he hunts, so he must at least have a rifle. He can't be a total Gun Grabber, like one of my own NJ senators, the illustrious (no, I didn't vote for him) Frank Lautenburg. Lautenburg wants criminals to be the only civilians with guns, judging by some of the crap he's managed to have legislated. I guess we could call Kerry a Semi-Gun Grabber. He is from Mass., afterall, and he seems to like being re-elected.

I'm just wondering if there are any Democrats, anywhere, who are actually on the side of gun-owners, wholeheartedly. There are some in this forum. They must exist elsewhere.

71Commander
August 18, 2006, 07:44 AM
I'm just wondering if there are any Democrats, anywhere, who are actually on the side of gun-owners, wholeheartedly. There are some in this forum. They must exist elsewhere.

They would be in the South and West, but not the west coast. As to the northeast, no Dem or Republican, ever.

orangelo
August 18, 2006, 09:17 AM
Uh, Kerry rushed to Washington DC right in the middle of one of his primary elections to vote to renew the AWB and ban all rifle ammunition including all hunting calibers. He sure looked at home when he got caught on film doing the thumbs up with his disgusting broodlings (kennedy, schumer, feinstein) all of which voted for the ban.

That was one of the few votes Kerry actually made that year. If he isn't a gun grabber then neither is sarah brady or lautenberg or feinstein or boxer or mccarthy or kennedy or klinton.

Hell if Kerry isn't a gungrabber then George W Bush isn't an ineloquent doofus that bobbles every one of his speeches.

You democrats would have far more credibility if you didn't spew the party line concerning gun grabbing frauds like klinton and kerry. 'I support the 2nd Amendment really I do! ... but not for peasants like you.'

KenW.
August 18, 2006, 09:26 AM
Where I grew up back East, everyone had multiple guns. But no drugs. They, like strret gangs, weren't popular among daily farmers. I think a better lead-in for this article would have been "Where thare are drugs, there are gangs." Leave the honest, law abiding folks out of it.

Dr. Dickie
August 18, 2006, 09:46 AM
Who, besides the Kerry campaign during an election, even said that Kerry hunts?
He looked like a complete idiot (and made fun of hunters) when he went to buy, "One of them there hunting licenses."
Spoken like he assumed all hunters spoke.

Hypnogator
August 18, 2006, 09:59 AM
Actually, he got it out of order: Where you have drugs, you often have gangs, and where you have gangs, you often have guns.

It's a fact of life. :(

ID_shooting
August 18, 2006, 10:07 AM
I think what is wrong with this article is the offending statement is backward.

Drugs and guns do not make gangs.

You have drugs and guns BECAUSE you have gangs.

It should read:

"Where you have gangs, you often have guns"

progunner1957
August 18, 2006, 10:11 AM
do you know of any politicians who are Democrats, but not Gun Grabbers? Kerry would be one, I suppose.Wrong. Dead wrong. 100% wrong. Look at Kerry's voting record over the decades - he is the most antigun candidate to ever run for President.
although he did sign the AWB.Yes, he did. Enough said. Kerry is the enemy of gun owners, plain and simple.
Kerry goes whichever way the wind blows. Agreed - except on the issue of guns. He is comitted to destroying the Second Amendment, which as a Senator he swore to protect and defend. That kind of hypocracy and complete, total lack of integrity makes him unfit for the office he holds - or any office.
As I said, he hunts, so he must at least have a rifle. Yes, he does - 2 months before the election, when all the news media is there to broadcast it, and with a shotgun (not a rifle) that he received as a gift in violation of the laws that we commoners must obey.

Does anyone else here have a problem with Kerry's elitist double standard behavior? Why should he be able to blatantly disregard the laws regarding firearm acquisition? The answer: He shouldn't.
He can't be a total Gun Grabber. I guess we could call Kerry a Semi-Gun Grabber.Wrong. Again, look at his voting record.
he seems to like being re-elected.Of course he does - he's not stupid! He wants to ride the gravy train of power, prestiege, riches and fame that comes with being elected to the Senate as long as he possibly can.

Where I draw the line is at the Second Amendment. Kerry has worked his whole political career to infringe on - and to destroy - our right to arms. The inescapable truth is, that makes him unfit for public office and Unfit to Command, as has been pointed out by the men who were unfortunate enough to suffer under his so-called leadership during his brief ticket-punching stay in Vietnam.

Baba Louie
August 18, 2006, 10:13 AM
Allow me a chance to fix that quote...
"Where you have ILLEGAL drugs, you often have ILLEGAL guns, and where you have ILLEGAL guns, you often have gangs MAKING MONEY HAND OVER FIST, ILLEGALLY AND TAX FREE."
But, we ALL know it's better to villify the drugs and guns rather than those small neighborhood groups of young free market enterprising capitalist types who disagree with a few stupid laws... like prohibition (when there's a market to satisfy) or competitive survival (of the fit/dog eat dog variety) and of course, ya gotta worry about 'da man' doggin ya constantly about the necessity of obeying those aforementioned stupid laws stopping one from making money hand over fist... tax free... :scrutiny:

Tory
August 18, 2006, 10:15 AM
Also, do you know of any politicians who are Democrats, but not Gun Grabbers? Kerry would be one, I suppose, although he did sign the AWB. He hunts, so he must have a rifle or two...

As I said, he hunts, so he must at least have a rifle. He can't be a total Gun Grabber, like one of my own NJ senators, the illustrious (no, I didn't vote for him) Frank Lautenburg.... I guess we could call Kerry a Semi-Gun Grabber. .

You're breathing WAY too much of that NJ "air" and reading way too much of the NY Times. Calling Kerry a "semi-gun grabber" is like calling Hillary Clinton "semi-pushy." :rolleyes:

Any firearms owner who paid the slightest attention to the 2004 campaign knows Kerry is anti-gun; hides behind the charade of "sport" as the only basis for ownership, and that his "hunt" was staged.

Note also that his "hunt" was ostensibly for ducks and, therefore, did not involve rifles in any way, shape, manner or form. The only rifle he admits to owning is an AK-47 he supposedly brought back from Viet Nam.

IF it is truly an AK-47 and IF he truly has it, do you really think the City of Boston gave him both the LTC and the separate machine gun licenses?

RealGun
August 18, 2006, 10:16 AM
"Where you have drugs, you often have guns, and where you have guns, you often have gangs." - AG Gonzales

Read as cause and effect, it is tortured logic. I believe though as a list of associations it is accurate and no great revelation...not even debatable, if believing media reports. It is still not a very thoughtful or even useful comment except that it can shift the focus from guns to drugs to gangs as the real underlying problem. Of course, the real issue is young people with no jobs, no prospects, and no honor, who band together. It's kind of a circular chicken/egg debate.

zoom6zoom
August 18, 2006, 10:56 AM
The only thing Kerry hunts is rich widows. Any time you've seen a picture of him with a gun, somebody's had to tell him which end to hold.

I'm glad to be an escapee from the Sheeples Republik of Massochists.

mike101
August 18, 2006, 11:45 AM
First, I breathe South Jersey Air, not North Jersey air. There is a big difference. North Jersey residents are the ones who keep Lautenburg in office. God, they even brought him out of retirement, just when I thought we might get a break. There are a lot more of them than there are of us, I'm afraid. I hope the "South shall rise again", starting right here in South Jersey.

Secondly, I do NOT read the NY Times. It makes me too angry. And, I have never spewed a party-line in my life.

Okay, I forgot that was a duck-hunt, so no rifles. If Kerry supports a bill banning rifle ammo, that would qualify him as a gun-grabber, and an idiot. As far as the AWB, well, you can always get a flash supressor and a 30 round mag. online. My main concern in this last election was not the gun control issue. Too many other things wrong in this country at the moment.

Back to my original question. Does anyone know of a specific Democratic Senator, Congressman, or Governor who genuinely supports the RKBA?
:confused:

Beren
August 18, 2006, 12:23 PM
Back to my original question. Does anyone know of a specific Democratic Senator, Congressman, or Governor who genuinely supports the RKBA?

The man I wanted for President in 2004 was a firm supporter of the RKBA: now-retired Sen. Zell Miller.

orangelo
August 18, 2006, 12:34 PM
Does anyone know of a specific Democratic Senator, Congressman, or Governor who genuinely supports the RKBA

Zell Miller and Ronald Reagan were both democrats at one time. I think Andrew Jackson wasn't much of a gungrabber either. As for current dems, hmmm. Good question, I don't think there is any such animal.

mike101
August 18, 2006, 12:38 PM
Since Lautenbutt was brought out of retirement, maybe we could bring Zel back. He could challenge Lautenburg to a duel. I have a feeling he is a much better shot than Frank.:evil:

benEzra
August 18, 2006, 12:56 PM
Okay, I forgot that was a duck-hunt, so no rifles. If Kerry supports a bill banning rifle ammo, that would qualify him as a gun-grabber, and an idiot. As far as the AWB, well, you can always get a flash supressor and a 30 round mag. online. My main concern in this last election was not the gun control issue. Too many other things wrong in this country at the moment.
AFAIK, Senator Kerry supported the entire agenda of the Brady Campaign, no exceptions. Sarah Brady supports hunting with shotguns and bolt-action rifles, but she most definitely is a gun-grabber.

I personally believe Senator Kerry was seriously misinformed on the gun issue, and that his positions on the gun issue arise from ignorance rather than malice. He trusts the gun-ban lobby, knows relatively little about civilian nonhunting firearms or Federal firearms law, and therefore was/is easily manipulated by the Bradyites into supporting outrageous prohibitionist positions. (How many times during the campaign did he talk about outlawing automatic weapons? Obviously he is clueless about the Title 2/Class III provisions of the National Firearms Act...)

During the campaign, he promised to fight hard for an outright ban on the possession of a self-loading rifle with a handgrip that sticks out; he went so far as to cosponsor S.1431 that banned the Ruger mini-14 by name and would have instituted California style bans nationwide; he left the campaign trail on Super Tuesday (!) to fly back to Washington and vote for it. This despite the fact that all rifles combined account for less than 3% of homicides; and a common theme in most of his pronouncements on the issue was "gun rights for hunters only" (1 in 5 gun owners, at last count).

FWIW, I am a registered independent and no fan of either W or the repubs, but Kerry was and is stuck in the past on the gun issue.

RealGun
August 18, 2006, 01:01 PM
Note that thread has been hijacked by the "who is a good candidate?" question.

weregunner
August 18, 2006, 01:14 PM
Howdie ya'all from southern Wisconsin. Being in the metro Milwaukee area is interesting. VEEERRRY Interesting,but so stupid.Murder rate here is very high.Violent crime extends even to us suburb types.What to do,what to do.Prayer meetings,vigils,people wringing hands,liberal politicians saying that something must be done and oh yes. Lets blame those beastly guns. What has been done to cure the problem? Here those crickets chirping cause nothing else is happenning.How about enforcing the laws to the max and no plea deals when a felon gets caught with a gun.Enforce the 5 year mandatory sentence when they are caught with a gun.For a area the size as this we are beginning to make Detroit look like paradise.Gotta do somehting about the D.A. s who won't prosecute at all or the activist judges who make the jails have revolving doors.D.A.around here stands for Dumb a--.It is voting season here.:cuss: :banghead: Think anything will change? The:evil: you say. At least I live in a district where we are mostly Republicans. Have to do something about rampant voter fraud here.The prosecution of the people caught here is nil.Da Dems no it and the state A.G.Kegs Lautenschlager von't lift a finger, but beer glasses Yeah voll.Salude?:fire:

Phetro
August 18, 2006, 01:21 PM
Yes, he did. Enough said. Kerry is the enemy of gun owners, plain and simple.

Huh? Kerry is the enemy of America. Well, and yeah--gun owners too, by extension.

Maybe France needs a new "leader?" He'd fit right in there (in a number of ways).

Phetro
August 18, 2006, 01:29 PM
I personally believe Senator Kerry was seriously misinformed on the gun issue, and that his positions on the gun issue arise from ignorance rather than malice. He trusts the gun-ban lobby, knows relatively little about civilian nonhunting firearms or Federal firearms law, and therefore was/is easily manipulated by the Bradyites into supporting outrageous prohibitionist positions. (How many times during the campaign did he talk about outlawing automatic weapons? Obviously he is clueless about the Title 2/Class III provisions of the National Firearms Act...)

I'm sorry, but that's just false: like most politicians, particularly most socialist politicians, he was and remains well informed on the "gun issue."

What Kerry did during his campaign is known as subterfuge. He intentionally misled some of the public into thinking he was after "only the bad guns." As if there is such a thing as a "bad" gun. But don't let these leftists make you think for a second that they don't know exactly what they're doing.

They know what they're doing, and how hostile to America it is, and how unconstitutional it is. They want you to think otherwise, which is the root cause of their rhetoric appearing misinformed on occasion.

Neil San Diego
August 18, 2006, 02:06 PM
"Okay, I forgot that was a duck-hunt, so no rifles..."

IIRC, Kerry's photo-op was a goose hunt. Clinton's photo-op was a duck hunt. With his "rifle". :neener:

Neil

offthepaper
August 18, 2006, 02:13 PM
"The only thing Kerry hunts is rich widows."
------------------------------------
CORRECT!!
And the only thing he shoots.....is botox.:neener:

Punkermonkey
August 18, 2006, 02:37 PM
http://www.binarystorage.net/clients/flashbunny/pics/peasanthunting.jpg

mike101
August 18, 2006, 03:15 PM
See this picture? Is this one of the geese you were referring to? Pretty funny looking. See what happens when we knit-pick?

Duck, duck, duck, GOOSE!!! :neener:

Neil San Diego
August 18, 2006, 03:20 PM
Mikeburk101,

Mea culpa, mea culpa. Couldn't recall what critter Kerry was hunting. Just remembered that it was Clinton doing the duck hunting with his "rifle". :D

Neil

jlc
August 18, 2006, 03:21 PM
He's a democrat, and from I've read/heard, he's fairly pro-gun, including nice blurbs about him in the NRA's "American Rifleman", etc. His administration saw the implementation of the NM CCW law. I know he enjoys some hunting and shooting himself.

mike101
August 18, 2006, 03:28 PM
That's OK. I thought he had a rifle, and wasn't a full fledged Gun-Grabber. So, did Clinton have a rifle, or a shotgun? I don't remember that photo-op.:o

mike101
August 18, 2006, 03:31 PM
Bill Richardson! That's right! Now, if we can only get him to run for President!:)

Neil San Diego
August 18, 2006, 03:46 PM
Clinton was using a semiauto shotgun for his photo-op duck hunting. Shortly afterward, he made some comments about duck hunting with his "rifle". NRA made alot of hay out of that at the time. I believe he gave up trying to look like one-of-us shortly after that.

Kerry didn't make that same mistake. Although he did some talking about how he deer hunts, crawling around on his belly with his shotgun. :scrutiny:

Neil

psyopspec
August 18, 2006, 03:55 PM
"Where you have guns, you often have gangs"

Right, that's why I can't swing a dead cat in North Dakota without hitting cryps, bloods, or ms13.:rolleyes:

jlc
August 18, 2006, 04:28 PM
His name has certainly been bandied (sp?) about, and I'm sure he's considering a run, but I don't think he could win the primary... I believe he can be a little too frank and honest (my wife recounts an amusing appearance he made on Charlie Rose) if those are the right words. On the other hand, he may be able to carry the Hispanic vote. I'd like to learn more about him, and see if he can really make an attempt for the office.

71Commander
August 18, 2006, 05:46 PM
On the other hand, he may be able to carry the Hispanic vote. I'd like to learn more about him, and see if he can really make an attempt for the office.

The way things are going, in a few years the hispanic vote may win you the popular vote.:barf:

cmidkiff
August 18, 2006, 05:50 PM
I can spew words as well...

"Where you have young, poor, disenfranchised people, who have been failed by our socialist 'feel good' public education system for generations, and have been taught that their best chance of being anything other than dirt poor is to become a gangster... you will have gangs. Gangs make money by robery and drug dealing, and defend their territory with stolen weapons. Where's there's one, there will be all three."

Chris's 3 step plan to eliminating 'gun crime'...
1) Close the Dept. of Education. It ain't working. Allow people to put their children in schools where they teach marketable skills, rather than practical relativism and ebonics 101. Most private schools cost much less per student than what we currently spend on public schools anyway, so we can save money at the same time.
2) Arm the victims of crime, so that criminal activities have drastic, immediate consequences. A year in prison is a badge of honor for gangsters... a dead gangster no longer endangers anyone.
3) Shut off welfare. All of it. ADC, Food stamps, HUD, et al. Give people the choice of leaving the ghetto and finding work, or starving.

Or, we could always raise taxes, throw more money into the welfare sinkhole, and eliminate some more of our freedoms so that the sheep feel safe...:banghead:

mike101
August 18, 2006, 06:46 PM
I think, first, there were gangs. The gangs got bored, then there were drugs. The drugs became lucrative, then there were guns (to protect sales territory).

I am going to e-mail the Attourney General, and ask which came first, the chicken or the egg?:D That ought to keep him busy for awhile.

tellner
August 19, 2006, 03:24 AM
It's as predictable as the sun rising in the East. A Republican steps on his manhood. Suddenly the True Believers have to jump in with a few licks at a Democrat who was in an election several years ago just so they can draw attention away from the Beloved Party.

Come on guys. Alberto Gonzales is not your friend even if you belong to the Elephant Totem. It should be possible to admit that without parroting Karl's talking points.

SAG0282
August 19, 2006, 03:49 AM
As I said, he hunts, so he must at least have a rifle. He can't be a total Gun Grabber,

If it didnt involve something like gun rights, this MIGHT have been funny. Diane Feinstein has a CCW and ostensibly a handgun....guess by your logic she too isn't a gun-grabber? Politicians, particularly Democrats, are well-known for their "do as I say, not as I do" policy, so their personal behavior has little if anything to do with their politics.

As far as the article goes, it's irrelevant to the RKBA. He's right about drugs/gangs/guns being common to one another and is not referencing the 2nd Amendment, but at the same time he's no friend to our cause either.

RealGun
August 19, 2006, 09:15 AM
As far as the article goes, it's irrelevant to the RKBA. He's right about drugs/gangs/guns being common to one another and is not referencing the 2nd Amendment, but at the same time he's no friend to our cause either.

So I guess then the article is off topic, unless enjoying the opportunity to pounce on mention of Gonzalez...trot out those sound bites.

mike101
August 19, 2006, 10:30 AM
If you had read the rest of the posts up there before responding, you would have seen that I was unaware of Kerry's real position. I saw him on the news, hunting, so I figured he might not be too far gone yet. Evidently, I was wrong.

No, I don't consider Dianne Feinstein an anti-Gun Grabber. Are you sure she has a CCW? If so, she certainly has no right to try to take guns away from the rest of us. However, I guess in Senatorland, they think that the word "hypocracy" doesn't apply to them. I'd be willing to bet that even Frank Lautenburg:barf: has a gun. I've already written him several disapproving e-mails. I invited him to take an unannounced ride through nearby Camden, NJ sometime. It's been voted the most dangerous city in the US again this year. I never did get a response. I'm sure if he did, he would be in a limo full of armed security people. Woos.:evil:

bumm
August 19, 2006, 11:12 AM
I'd have to say that while drugs don't CAUSE gangs, the prohibition of drugs definitely gives the gangs a profit motive and a reason to use violence. The same thing happened during the prohibition of alcohol.
However, the part about "where you have guns you often have gangs" is silly pandering to the gun grabbers. Looking around the United States, almost the exact opposite is true.
Marty

benEzra
August 19, 2006, 11:16 PM
No, I don't consider Dianne Feinstein an anti-Gun Grabber. Are you sure she has a CCW? If so, she certainly has no right to try to take guns away from the rest of us.
As mayor of San Francisco, she pushed through an absolute ban on handguns in the city, that was later struck down.

She has also vowed to ban and confiscate half the guns in our family's gun safe.

benEzra
August 19, 2006, 11:22 PM
I'm sorry, but that's just false: like most politicians, particularly most socialist politicians, he was and remains well informed on the "gun issue."

What Kerry did during his campaign is known as subterfuge. He intentionally misled some of the public into thinking he was after "only the bad guns." As if there is such a thing as a "bad" gun. But don't let these leftists make you think for a second that they don't know exactly what they're doing.
No, I think he was genuinely clueless on the issue, regardless of his feelings on it (and he may be just as idealogically anti as you describe). If he HAD understood the gun issue, he wouldn't have been pandering to 5% of the gun-owning demographic (bird hunters) while demonizing, oh, the other 80%. Purely on pragmatic grounds.

He was gullible on the issue due to ignorance of civilian guns, gun owners, and Federal gun law, and got taken for a ride by the Bradyites. Maybe he liked where they took him, maybe not, but had he understood the issue and the demographics, he would have kept his foot out of his mouth quite a bit more.

SAG0282
August 19, 2006, 11:54 PM
If you had read the rest of the posts up there before responding, you would have seen that I was unaware of Kerry's real position. I saw him on the news, hunting, so I figured he might not be too far gone yet. Evidently, I was wrong.

No, I don't consider Dianne Feinstein an anti-Gun Grabber. Are you sure she has a CCW? If so, she certainly has no right to try to take guns away from the rest of us. However, I guess in Senatorland, they think that the word "hypocracy" doesn't apply to them. I'd be willing to bet that even Frank Lautenburg has a gun. I've already written him several disapproving e-mails. I invited him to take an unannounced ride through nearby Camden, NJ sometime. It's been voted the most dangerous city in the US again this year. I never did get a response. I'm sure if he did, he would be in a limo full of armed security people. Woos.


I do not mean this in an offensive or mean way, but if you dont consider Feinstein a gun grabber, then you lack even the most fundamental knowledge of gun politics.

And yes, it is a well-known fact she has a CCW. Whether she currently owns a gun or not is unknown, as she melted one down and made a cross which she presented to the Pope. Presumably though, she still does, which she can carry unlike the unwashed masses that bear the brunt of her hypocrisy and vile brand of socialism.

SAG0282
August 19, 2006, 11:57 PM
No, I think he was genuinely clueless on the issue, regardless of his feelings on it (and he may be just as idealogically anti as you describe). If he HAD understood the gun issue, he wouldn't have been pandering to 5% of the gun-owning demographic (bird hunters) while demonizing, oh, the other 80%. Purely on pragmatic grounds.

He was gullible on the issue due to ignorance of civilian guns, gun owners, and Federal gun law, and got taken for a ride by the Bradyites. Maybe he liked where they took him, maybe not, but had he understood the issue and the demographics, he would have kept his foot out of his mouth quite a bit more.

Are you messin' with us? There is no way anyone with any familiarity with gun politics could say this, on EITHER side. Everything Kerry did was a calculated attempt to pander to both sides....just because it didn't work doesn't mean his loss was the product of naivete. He understood perfectly well that nothing he did would make him appealing to the staunch RKBA folks, but to the moderates that arent single-issue voters and/or demonstrate the same ignorance your post does, it was a worthwhile gamble. Kerry strived to be everything to everybody and he worked hard to do just that, without regard for principle or accuracy.

MidnightRambler
August 20, 2006, 12:10 AM
Gun Owners of America gave several western Democrats high gun marks. In fact, all 3 candidates for governor in Indiana (Libertarian in addition to the big 2) got pro gun marks from GOA during the last election.

progunner1957
August 20, 2006, 12:41 AM
I got guns - lemmesee here [rummage, rummage, rummage, look, look]... Huh!! No gangs, though...:rolleyes:

Zen21Tao
August 20, 2006, 04:03 AM
A key component of the program is the increased prosecution of gun crimes in federal court instead of state courts. Federal gun crimes carry stiffer penalties.

The major criticism of pro-gunners is that antis care more about banning guns than prosecuting and punishing the criminals. Here it appears that Gonzales' program does exactly what gun owners say they want.

mike101
August 20, 2006, 04:54 AM
If you'll look again, you'll see that I said "No, I DON'T consider Dianne Feinstein an anti-GunGrabber". :D I guess "non-GunGrabber" would have been a better term.

I'll bet if she has a permit to carry, she carries, especially when her security people are not around. I'm sure they are armed to the teeth. Who knows what she melted down for the Pope? It was probably some old costume jewelery.

To your knowledge, has anyone ever called her on this? I'd love to know what her response was. It would probably be some excuse citing her notoriety as the reason she needs a gun. These ultra-lib elitist types have lots of double-standards. But then, they never have to walk down a dangerous city street, alone, depending on the proximity of the nearest cop for protection.

I would invite her to take that ride through Camden NJ, with Lautenburg:barf: but they would probably convolute what they saw (gangs, prostitutes, drug addicts, and lots of cops not doing anything about it) into a reason for even more gun-laws.

I don't think these people will ever understand that gun laws only affect law abiding people.

I guess it's time to join the NRA.

mike101
August 20, 2006, 05:32 AM
Thanks for the info. I think we'd better start a new thread for this, before "You Know Who" locks this one down.;)

antsi
August 20, 2006, 10:11 AM
-----quote--------
In fact, all 3 candidates for governor in Indiana (Libertarian in addition to the big 2) got pro gun marks from GOA during the last election.
-------------------

Sometimes in very pro-gun areas you will encounter a pro-gun democrat. In Indiana, a real anti could never be elected, so even the democrats drop their anti-gun agenda locally. When they run for national office, sometimes their true colors start to show - witness Al Gore, who never would have been elected Senator from Tennessee as the rabid anti-gun activist he later turned out to be.

Also, sometimes, in very anti-gun areas like New York, California, Chicago, etc., you will encounter gun-ban republicans.

In either case, these are anomalies due to local conditions and don't reflect the national party agenda.

dragongoddess
August 20, 2006, 10:22 AM
Where you have guns

you have chocolate and books on Quantum Field Theory. Not to mention music CDs of the Blue Brothers,Santana,The Doors,Yanni, Jimi, Queen, G&R, Bach and John Philip Sousa.

mordechaianiliewicz
August 20, 2006, 12:10 PM
With every passing day, I like the Republicans more and more. :rolleyes:

longeyes
August 20, 2006, 12:22 PM
Where you have congregations of unevolved and unenlightened people, willing to profiteer and oppress others, you will have a resorting to violence to carry out the dark agenda. Firearms are just the latest means in what has been the greatest story ever told. Gangs are the "normal" state of backward humanity, and if they don't operate by physical coercion they operate by brainwashing.

Mitty
August 22, 2006, 03:22 PM
where you have guns, you often have gangs.

Where you have flies, you often have garbage. Flies cause garbage!

espanola
August 22, 2006, 07:02 PM
"Where you have guns, you have gangs." With that logic I can honestly say
"Where you have guns, you have Bibles."
"Where you have guns, you have a loving family."
"Where you have guns, you have law-abiding contributing members of society."


The above has been my, and my extended family's experience.

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