Armed customer stops robbery in Indy


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El Kabong
August 18, 2006, 09:18 AM
Outstanding! The way it should work. :)

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060818/NEWS01/60818008

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#shooter
August 18, 2006, 09:42 AM
WOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!! Very nice. +1 for the good guys.

AirForceShooter
August 18, 2006, 10:41 AM
and the good guy was named Sherlock!!!
It just get's better.

AFS

stevelyn
August 18, 2006, 10:48 AM
Cool story and it's not littered with admonishment from some PR puke about citizens taking matter into their own hands.

Maverick7340
August 18, 2006, 10:53 AM
Even though this ended well I'm not sure I would have done the same thing. What if the BG ignored the guy with the gun and jumped over the counter and then had a hostage. Now what do you do.
There are a lot of things the BG could have done instead of just putting up his hands and waiting for the cops. Sometimes you may think you are doing a good thing but you may make the situation go from bad to worse.

Erebus
August 18, 2006, 10:59 AM
What if the BG ignored the guy with the gun and jumped over the counter and then had a hostage.

I would have shot him when he started jumping over the counter. He would not have had the chance to take a hostage while laying on the floor shot.

birddog
August 18, 2006, 11:00 AM
Glad things worked out, but I'm not sure if I would have done the same. Or maybe I would. I don't know.

I think I've lived in NY too long!

The_Shootist
August 18, 2006, 11:02 AM
The paper was even nice enough to identify what pistol he carried :evil:

Moral of the story appears to be that is doesn't have to be expensive to be effective!

Erich
August 18, 2006, 11:23 AM
I miss Indiana. :(

Father Knows Best
August 18, 2006, 11:38 AM
I would have shot him when he started jumping over the counter. He would not have had the chance to take a hostage while laying on the floor shot.


And you probably would have been arrested and charged with murder, and sued for wrongful death by his grieving mother/sister/son/whatever.

blinkin357
August 18, 2006, 02:20 PM
I wouldn't have stepped in at that point though. The law is so strange that I'd be concerned about ending up in jail myself. If his weapon was exposed or if he started to attack someone and I was in a good position, I'd step in myself. I guess I'll never know unless I face similar circumstances.

If I were Sherlock, I'd be concerned about McMiller coming to get revenge when he's out, which will likely be very soon.

DKSuddeth
August 18, 2006, 02:37 PM
the monday morning quarterbacking is alive and well.

The perp had already put his hand behind like he was grabbing a gun once, one could reasonably assume that he had a weapon (he did in fact have a screwdriver) and by jumping towards the one behind the counter, intended to attack or hold hostage said individual. He would have been entirely justified in shooting the scumbag in the back.

carebear
August 18, 2006, 02:48 PM
McMiller, police said, ordered a bucket of chicken then told cashier Deanne Slaughter: “Give me the money before I shoot you.”

The suspect held his hand in his back pocket as if reaching for a gun, police said, then lifted his foot to jump over the counter.

Paul Sherlock, a customer sitting in the dining room, approached and pointed a Taurus 9-mm handgun towards the suspect’s back.

Reasonable man standard.

He had the necessary proximity to the cashier, he apparently stated his intent to harm said cashier, and he both claimed to have and acted as if he did have (and actually had) a weapon. It seems as if the good citizen was close enough to be aware of all three factors.

If he moved to attack the cashier, with or without being challenged first, he's DRT, no questions asked.

MechAg94
August 18, 2006, 02:51 PM
And you probably would have been arrested and charged with murder, and sued for wrongful death by his grieving mother/sister/son/whatever.

I don't know. You could argue that he was making a move toward the cashier and that you were acting in defense of a 3rd party. I guess it would depend on the circumstances.

El Tejon
August 18, 2006, 02:53 PM
What kind of stupid mope is trying an armed robbery on the westside of Indianapolis one of the one heavily armed places on earth?:what: :confused:

If you see a white male on the westside there's a very high chance he is armed. Perp was whacked out on something.:scrutiny:

mindwip
August 18, 2006, 03:01 PM
There was a clear and present danger to the clerk, the BG stated he had a weapon, even went to grab it, and threantened the clerk.

Try that with your local police when there is a cop behind you, tell someone else to give you there money and you have a gun, see if the cop shoots or not?


ps i am gald no one got hurt btw

straightShot
August 18, 2006, 03:02 PM
I'm glad that it worked out. I'm also glad that an accomplice wasn't planted amongst the customers. That's how the good guy sometimes gets shot in the back of the head.

I remember that it happened at a dry cleaners near me a few years ago. The good guy, an off duty cop, tried to stop a robbery while in line with his son at a bank. He told the robber to stop, and someone behind him shot him dead in the back of his head.

Like I said, I'm glad that no good guys got hurt in this instance.

Father Knows Best
August 18, 2006, 03:03 PM
He would have been entirely justified in shooting the scumbag in the back.

It doesn't matter what you or I think is "entirely justified." What matters is what the DA thinks is justified. It may turn out that a jury agrees with you. In the 12-18 months it takes to find out, however, your life has been ruined.

Shooting someone in the back is always going to look bad. In this case, you MAY have argued it was reasonably necessary as "defense of others", but that argument typically isn't very compelling to a DA or jury when the "others" aren't family members or loved ones, and when no weapon has been displayed. The DA will portray you as a crazed vigilante or Rambo wannabe to the grand jury.

Do what you want. I'm just telling you to be prepared for the consequences. You may eventually be vindicated, but your life will be hell for 12-18 months and you'll be broke at the end.

JohnKSa
August 18, 2006, 03:13 PM
And you probably would have been arrested and charged with murder, and sued for wrongful death by his grieving mother/sister/son/whatever.You're right and wrong.

Right because there's a decent chance of this happening in ANY shooting.

Wrong because in most cases, you are allowed to use deadly force on behalf of another if you would have used deadly force in their shoes.

If I'm a clerk and a guy tries to jump the counter toward me after stating that he was armed and intended to shoot me, I would certainly feel justified in using deadly force. That would make the third party defender equally and clearly justified in using deadly force regardless of the third party's location with respect to the attacker. In other words, if a criminal attacks an innocent person in your presence, there is absolutely no requirement in the law that you maneuver around until you're in front of them before responding with deadly force. If the innocent is justified in using deadly force, so are you, even if you're behind the attacker.

Fortunately, criminals don't usually want to die and will generally choose compliance over perforation. And, in my mind, that's another big plus in favor of immediately shooting an attacker who doesn't comply immediately with instructions from an armed defender. If the guy's not afraid of being shot, the situation is dire, and the sooner you start shooting, the better chance you'll have of surviving.

JBusch8899
August 18, 2006, 03:27 PM
Carl Briezi seems like a pretty decent guy as the Marion County Prosecutor.

Worse comes to worse if the situation warranted an investigation, fairly present it to a Grand Jury to no-bill the good guy.

blinkin357
August 18, 2006, 03:27 PM
Since I'm not a police officer, it's not my responsiblity to step in based upon my opinions of what MAY happen.

Years ago, with my first CCW permit, I thought it through ahead of time and decided that I will not step in during a robbery unless the perps are shooting or injuring somebody AND I'm in a position to take action without becoming a clear target myself. Of course, if he's shooting at me, all the rules change.

El Tejon
August 18, 2006, 03:52 PM
Grand jury? What's that here, JB?:confused: :D

All it takes for your life to be ruined here as FKB describes is Brizzi's John Hancock.

cordex
August 18, 2006, 04:30 PM
If you see a white male on the westside there's a very high chance he is armed.
Yeah, there are a few armed folks around here.

El T, in Indiana Code when it says "No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary." does that offer protection from civil suits after the fact? Or does "legal jeopardy" just mean criminal prosecution?

Travis McGee
August 18, 2006, 05:52 PM
THis reminds me of the old Dirty Harry movie, where Inspector Callahan is munching a sandwich with one hand, while foiling a robbery with his .44 in the other.

I wonder if the guy with the Taurs put down his drumstick?

"I gots to know!"

redneck2
August 18, 2006, 05:59 PM
I'm not a laywer, nor did I stay at Holiday Inn Express last night, but I'd suspect legal jeopardy means just that.....exposure to any legal problem

remember, Indiana is a very red state. Passage of the Castle Doctrine just made it a lot redder.

txgho1911
August 19, 2006, 12:04 AM
His words on the radio (am talk radio 1430 wxnt) He stated clearly he has a problem with the non retail or non FFL handgun sales.
Still he is the only prosecutor viable or electable right now.
Kirt, When are you moving to Indy. Maybe you can run for the job next time it's up!

gunsmith
August 19, 2006, 02:11 AM
link and story? is that to much to ask?:p

Police: Armed customer stops KFC robbery

Police say a would-be robber is in jail this morning after a customer foiled the suspect’s attempted hold-up of a restaurant on the Westside.

William McMiller Jr., 40, was arrested on an initial charge of robbery after he demanded money and threatened to shoot a cashier at the Kentucky Fried Chicken, 2801 W. 16th Street, at about 3:20 p.m. Thursday, according to Indianapolis police reports.
McMiller, records show, is being held in the Marion County Jail on $80,000 bond.

McMiller, police said, ordered a bucket of chicken then told cashier Deanne Slaughter: “Give me the money before I shoot you.”

The suspect held his hand in his back pocket as if reaching for a gun, police said, then lifted his foot to jump over the counter.

Paul Sherlock, a customer sitting in the dining room, approached and pointed a Taurus 9-mm handgun towards the suspect’s back.

The suspect raised his hands over his head, police said. Sherlock ordered him to lean against a window with his hands up until police arrived.

Police found a long screwdriver, not a gun, in McMiller’s pocket.

Sherlock told The Star today that he was acting on instinct.

“I was nervous man, I ain’t gonna lie, not scared though,” he said. “It never crossed my mind that he might try to do something to me.”

Sherlock was in the restaurant waiting for a friend who works there when the robbery occurred. The suspect was focused on getting the cash and didn’t notice Sherlock moving in from behind.

He said he hopes McMiller spends some time in prison for the crime.

“I hope he gets what he deserves,” Sherlock said, “at least a little time to think about what he was doing.”

Sherlock had a valid gun permit, police said.

Hawkmoon
August 19, 2006, 10:35 AM
link and story? is that to much to ask?
Very possibly, it IS too much to ask.

For starters, the original post did provide the link. Actually reproducing the full story is a violation of the author's and media's copyrights, and could result in both this forum and the individual who quoted the article being sued for copyright infringement.

It appears to be fairly common on this forum to reproduce entire articles, and I admit freely that it is convenient. However ... it is also illegal, and most Internet forums have rules that prohibit the practice, for the simple reason that the forum owners don't want to get dragged into any lawsuits they can avoid.

gunsmith
August 19, 2006, 02:12 PM
i don't like it when peolpe are not as perfect as i am:neener:

armoredman
August 19, 2006, 02:40 PM
I would only complain the newspaper directly placed my life in danger by listing my full name. I would prefer first name, last intial, or simply, "an unidentified armed citizen". If this misfiring nueron gets out of lockup, and goes after this citizen hero, because of the newspaper identification, can they be held liable?

carterbeauford
August 19, 2006, 03:31 PM
Sherlock told The Star today that he was acting on instinct.

No he wasn't. Learned behavior.

He did the right thing but I hate it when people mistakently attribute their actions to some nonexistent biological drive.

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