Who owns an ugly M95 Mannlicher Carbine?


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Snowdog
May 7, 2003, 08:51 PM
Bitten by the surplus military rifle bug long ago, I've been looking to buy any decent value on the market.
I've already bought a M91/30, M48A, M96, Enfield No.4, and recently a Polish M44.

I saw this 8x56R M95 in a flier for around $55 in good condition... and being such a sucker for military surplus, I am seriously considering it. It is listed as being Austro-Hungarian, so I am well aware we are talking pre-WWI here, but what's $55?
Besides, my Carl Gustafs M96 was manufactured in 1918, so it can't be much older (and it looks darn near new).

Another flier I see it sold for $93 in NRA VG condition (FAC)

So, besides being one of the most incredibly ugly rifles that's likely to ever be seen, what's the scoop on the M95 (besides scarce ammunition availability)?

Also, if I ever do find ammunition for it, how much less punch than a 8x57JS can I expect? I see some Nazi manufactured ammunition in this same caliber designation... is this the same stuff?

http://www.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2002-12-01/JULESCODY_1039185101_STEYR.jpg

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cratz2
May 7, 2003, 09:30 PM
Tell you what... you get that one for $55 and if you don't like it, I'll give you $55 for it, assuming it's functional.

Can't beat an offer like that. :p

Snowdog
May 7, 2003, 09:42 PM
Actually, these are photos I'm finding off Gunbroker.com, just to serve as a visual indication of what I'm talking about. The one's I'm posting are listed at $130 or so. I'm more in the habit of buying one that's been in storage for the better part of a century and cleaning it myself.

Just doesn't have the lines of a K98, but then again, it's not a K98... is it.
:)

http://www.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2003-04-20/flaskman_1050853096_Styer_1_001.jpg

BHP9
May 7, 2003, 09:53 PM
I have thought about getting one of these. I acually turned down one in very good condition a couple of weeks ago for only $60.00. The reason. Even advanced handloaders will have a lot of trouble trying to make cases for this weapon. I you have access to a lathe then it would be much less of a problem.

I should have bought the weapon just for the collection value alone. It is a very well made and unusual military weapon..

Gordon
May 7, 2003, 10:29 PM
This is THE sleeper IMHO. I too got one 'in the cosmoline' last yearfor $75. I bought 200 rds of 1939 Nazi stuff and took some old milsurp rifles along with it to range a couple months back. It turned out to be more accurate than my K-31 at 50 yds with military ammo. It shot 5" at 100 though probably because sights are coarse. It was right on for windage and elevation though. Action was almost as smooth as k-31 and faster I think. What a nice light carbine which could be used for hunting as is. If and when softpoint becomes available a great brush/truck gun. Mine is a Steyr built in 36 as far as I can determine. Ammo is no great feat to make from &.62X54 Russian. Buy all the great clean 1939 you can ,I do at $4.50 for ten on stripper clips as it won't work with out those clips!:D

Marko Kloos
May 7, 2003, 10:40 PM
I have an M95 carbine, which I use as a trunk gun. I actually think they're good-looking, in a funky kind of way...like a Bergmann Bayard pistol.

It loads quickly via Mannlicher en-bloc clips, and it's a very light and handy rifle with a fast action. The downside to that handiness is that it kicks pretty good, although the 8x56R Hungarian is not quite in the 8x57JS class. (It's more like a .30 Krag or .303 British.)

The ammunition is not easy to find, and universally corrosive. Reloading is tricky, as the cases are Berdan-primed, and the bullet diameter is .329, not the far more common .323. You can reload with .323 diameter bullets, but then accuracy suffers greatly. I have about 250 rounds of pre-WWII vintage German-manufactured ammo for it. Make sure you score some Mannlicher clips with the ammo if you buy milsurp. The German stuff comes in cardboard boxes on clips already, ten rounds/two clips to a box. Some places sell 8x56R loose in baggies, but without the clips you have a single-shot rifle...one of the drawbacks of the Mannlicher magazine design.

Gewehr98
May 7, 2003, 11:10 PM
Don't forget the 6.5x53R Dutch variant...

http://mauser98.com/m95steyrcavalry.jpg

jjmorgan64
May 8, 2003, 07:57 AM
I have one and like it a lot, it is actually one of my most accurate Mil surps, lots of fun to shoot,
I would use it for a hunting rifle in a second if proper ammo were available

Crimper-D
May 8, 2003, 03:15 PM
The downside is the really nice one is a wallhaanger because it's chamberd for the 8x50 cartridge - which is totally unavilable (I've been looking for over3 years:( )
The one with the scrubbed receiver (probably Bulgarian) that I got from CAI is a 8x56 chambering and shoots just fine - too bad the sights are so cruddy, it has lots of potential, even with the 1938 Nazi proofed ammo. Kicks some, but I shoot with a shooting coat:p

Cosmoline
May 8, 2003, 03:37 PM
That good brass is on the way. From Graff & Sons, IIRC. I'll check into it and post any more info if I find it.

Bullets are another matter. I don't think standard 8mm are correct for these bores.

Mannlicher
May 8, 2003, 07:27 PM
There is no such thing as an "ugly Mannlicher"

:fire:

Hand_Rifle_Guy
May 9, 2003, 12:23 PM
These are interesting guns, without a doubt.

Me and buddy each got one as they were something like $80 wholesale, which worked out to something like $120 to take 'em home. He got the Steyr, and I got the Budapest stamp. We also bought a case of Nazi surplus 8 x 56R in the cute little boxes in clips. Both guns were in quite nice aresenal-refinished condition under a thick coating of grease. Bores could be described as "adequate", with shiny but well-rounded rifling. Trigger pulls on both were in the "not great" class, pretty gritty, a lot of creep, but not heavy. Workmanship was interchangeable between the Budapest and Steyr manufacture, and was pretty nice, although not up to Swedish Mauser grade. I was lucky enough that my rifle has an absolutely gorgeous wiggly-grain stock that positively gleams after much scrubbing with steel wool to remove the cosmo. You would have to pay a good premium to put such beautiful wood on a rifle today. My friend's Steyr stock was quite plain, but as he's a big Steyr fan, (He's got a GB handgun also.) so he was happy enough to let me have the nicer wood.

These things KICK. Period. Don't be fooled by the counter-claims made by various manly HighRiders above. The .329 FMJ bullets weigh in at something like 208 grains, cooking along at some 2300-odd FPS. These little guns don't weigh much, and the heavy-weight bullets make for a nice wallop on the shoulder even at the moderate velocity. Expect loud muzzle-blast, also. I haven't shot mine for groups, and I've only put 20-25 rounds through it, but it seemed to shoot close to where the sights looked.

The action is very slick, and can be run FAST! Straight-pulls are notorious for lacking in camming strength for primary extraction, but the old surplus Nazi rounds gave me no trouble at all. Ejection can toss the cases a few feet easily.

Huntington's (http://www.huntingtons.com) has Bertram (http://www.huntingtons.com/CasesBertram.html) cases at $32.98/20, and either Woodleigh (http://www.huntingtons.com/Bullet-Woodleigh.html) .330 bullets for the .318 Westley-Richards which would work fine, (Expensive! $56/50 250 gr. SN, $75/50 250 gr. FMJ! Yipe! :eek: ) or .329 Custom Bullets. (http://www.huntingtons.com/Bullet-Custom.html) (A bit more reasonable, $29\50, 200 gr. Spitzers.)

Components do exist, and Bertram cases are supposed to be first-rate. Huntington's was just the first place I looked, mostly because I remembered their add from Shotgun News. More extensive digging could probably conjure up more bullets. The only missing ingredient is the Mannlicher en-bloc clips, which either come with the milsurp stuff, or you can get 'em at gunshows for pretty cheap, ($1-$2 each.) out of SGN ads, or Numrich/Gun Parts Corp. (http://www.e-gunparts.com/itemnumber.asp) has 'em, (Enter Number 508610) for $2.45, or $2.20 ea. for 3 or more.

I couldn't get a parts web page for the rifle to come up no matter what, but they do have a page for it in the paper catalog, and they have an extensive array of parts available, like all of them! Look under "Austrian" and "Steyr Model M-95".

Getting the bolt out of the rifle is easy, merely requiring depressing the trigger. Getting it back IN afterwards can be quite tricky, as the bolt head must be delicately perched in it's forward position against sping pressure, and eased into the rifle without the bolthead coming into contact with anything, or it will drop into it's back position and prevent the bolt's advance. Sometimes this takes a few tries, but it IS possible! (I think it took me ten times or more the first time! :( ) Make sure the bolt assembly is free of excess lubricants, as this can make the bolthead even more touch-sensitive.

That's about every little tidbit I know, and I bet more info abounds on the cruffler sights. I hope this is a helpful start. :)

Snowdog
May 9, 2003, 11:33 PM
A appreciate the information. Those links may turn out to be a great help, Hand Rifle Guy. I'll be keeping a eyes open for any deals on the M95 or the ammunition.
Looks to be the next candidate for my military surplus collection.

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