IDPA Weapon

[Rubikees]

Ok guys and gals, I just started IDPA and at this time I am using a Kimber Ultra .45. I would like to go to a 9mm because the ammo is half the cost of .45s. I have narrowed the list down a little bit but none has really stood out as the chosen one:uhoh: . The list include the following 9mm:

Glock
XD
H&K USP (I am leaning to the compact)
Sig 226
Browning Pro9
Kimber Target II
Smith & Wesson M&P9

Each one on the list have there advantages and disadvantages. If you have a favorite that is on the list, which one is it and why. Thanks.:)

[MCgunner]

I always shoot what I carry. Too me, that's the whole purpose of shooting IDPA and why I don't play other games.

[jmorris]

I started with a Glock because that’s what I carried most, at the time (the over all winner at the last two nationals shot a Glock 34). I then went to a Springfield 9mm, because it seemed 9+1 (nine in the mag one in the chamber) generally has a slight advantage at most matches. Most match directors don’t want to show bias to either CDP 8+1 or SSP/ESP 10+1 so the advantage generally goes to the “odd” 9+1. You also won’t have a problem with an extra mag change on the 18 round stages. If you really get into the game we will talk about S*I’s, for now I would say have fun with what you have. You will learn a lot from your fellow shooters.

[Jim Watson]

If you want to do like MCgunner and exercise your carry weapon, then it is wide open to pick whatever you want to take to a gunfight.
If you want to excel in IDPA matches, I think:

Glock - Common, proven, and effective. Lots of support in tuning and gear.

XD - A lot are sold, but I haven't seen one high in the results around here.

H&K USP - I know ONE (1.0) USP shooter, ok but not great. Would another make help him, I don't know.

Sig 226 - Not very common although I have one being tuned up and will wring it out this winter after the Nationals.

Browning Pro9 - Never seen one being shot, anywhere.

Kimber Target II - A 1911 mutant, the other big contender besides Glock. I don't think the 9+1 capacity is a terrible liability but I do not think it an actual advantage like jmorris unless your CoF writers are very unimaginative. I shoot a Colt 9mm for ESP.

Smith & Wesson M&P9 - Looks promising, but too new on the market to have made much of an impression or establish a track record.

I have to vote Glock.
I can hit better with the 1911 family but they have a reputation for finicky tuning and management.

[Black Snowman]

If you're sold on the 1911 platform I'd get what you're comfortable and familiar with, the same thing in 9mm. It sounds like you're not sold 100% and are looking for alternatives.

A lot of shooters in my neck of the woods are switching to SIGs over their custom 1911s. I'm still in love with my CZs and don't see that changing. After not competing for years I shot a benefit match with my CZ RAMI in 40 S&W and finished mid-pack. Not too shabby for a rusty shooter with a sub-compact going up against a field consisting mostly of tuned 1911s. I used it how I carry, 8+1 with two 12 round spares in an IWB holster.

Next time out it will probably be the CZ 97B. I reload so the extra expense of 45 doesn't bother me as much and I just haven't found any other gun I shoot as well. There's a reason it was initially banned from IDPA. ;) For 9mm I don't think you can beat the CZ 75B or one of it's varients, and the new stainless is dead sexy.

http://www.czusa.com/data/productimg/main072.png

[MT GUNNY]

500 to 900 dollars for the pistol you listed
RCBS makes the rock chucker kit 299 plus 30 dollar dies.
bullets powder seirra reloader book little bit off time
if cost is your issue reload!

[Texas_XD]

I'd vote for XD or a Glock from your list. I love my XDs as they are proving themselves to be very solid shooters. I have a .40 Service model that went to Springer Precision for a trigger job and came home with less then 3/16" reset on a 3.5# pull. I use it locally in some matches. Glock also seems to be very popular, exspecially with the availablity of low cost parts for tuning. XD parts are becoming more available every day just not as low cost as Glocks..
Both base pistols should run about the same initial cost, I would recommend handling both together and let "feel" help you decide, WE can tell you for months which is better for each of us but it really comes down to what feels and works best for YOU. Best of luck to you! :)


Trace

[Chris Rhines]

Glock. Simple, reliable, effective. The Glock lets you focus on the shooting, instead of focusing on getting your gun to run.

I'd particularly avoid the HK USP or any variation thereof. Every single HK USP I've seen at a match (six at last count) has had major feeding problems.

- Chris

[Sunray]

Like lucas_flesher says, reloading is the answer. It won't necessarily reduce your ammo costs, but you won't have to search for the best price for already expensive factory ammo and you'll be using ammo that is tailored for your pistol. Forget jacketed bullets too. They add considerably to the cost of ammo by themselves. Think cast or swaged lead. Swaged being better for accuracy.
However, if you're looking for a reason to buy another pistol, buy the one that fits your hand best. And there's no reason not to have a 9mm and use the .45. Let's you shoot in two classes. Just remember that IDPA shooting is a shooting game. Reality it ain't.
Look at a Browning High power. Preferably an Inglis.

[Rubikees]

Thanks for all of the info. I have thought about reloading however I have decided against it. Some interesting info always seems to pop out and one of those was the H&K feed jams. Two of our top IDPA shooters have been shooting the new S&W M&P9 and recommends them to everybody. Anyway, thanks again for the info.

[Glock9]

CZ makes a 9mm single action CZ-75SA that I user for IDPA.

My carry guns are A Kimber Ultra II or a Kimber fullsize Eclipse and the single action CZ is a low cost shooter with the same feel of a 1911

[madmattmd]

The hot "gamer" gun at one of my local IDPA shoots is the Glock 34. It seems to me that about half the shooters use the 34. It's quite popular and I've heard that Glock pretty much designed it with IDPA in mind (I could be wrong).

Although I would love the low cost of the 9mm, I just can't get my head around having to hit a steel plate 2, 3, or 4 times to get it to fall over. For that reason, I went with the .40 S&W (OK, it's the Frankenstein G20 10mm with a .40 conversion barrel) when I changed over from .45 ACP in a 1911. I also shoot revolver (SSR) using a SS Dan Wesson 15-2. I definitely need more practice time! :D

If I were to go completely 9mm "gamer" I would get the G34.

Matt

[Vitamin G]

<Smacks self in the head>
I hate my job...

My job, (self-employed, of course) seems to be to float around the boards and suggest the browning hi-power. Sorry, I just can't help myself.
But i noticed that you have a couple 9mm's listed that would be competing in ESP. I love mine, and you can pick up an FM (Argentinia) copy for $300.

[madmattmd]

I too like the HiPower (no, I don't own one) and thought about it as an alternative for IDPA. My main issue is the lack of ability to fire a chambered round without a seated magazine. I've only seen one or two used in IDPA locally.

I'm sure that if I came across an "impossible to pass up deal" on a decent used Browning, I'd be looking for that 'el cheapo 9mm ammo myself. :)

Matt

[SIRVEYR666]

RO's hate when a shooter comes to the line with a HiPower. Some of them are such safety freaks (not always a bad thing) that they totally freak out when you must seat a mag to decock.:what: I quit shooting my HiPower for this reason. It was just too much of a hassle.

GLOCK 34...a soul-less black piece of flawlessly functioning plastic. I love it.

[Texfire]

You know, if you have the magazine disconnect removed then all those issues with the High Power go away. Just so you know.

Tex

[Rubikees]

I do have a BHP that I got from my dad that is 33 years old and has the crown mark. He carried it for many years on patrol in the SE Harris county area. It is a great weapon but shoots to the right, can be taken care of. However, the experienced shooters said that there is a cracking problem at the ejection port. In fact one had owned one but cracked on her after several months of hard shooting. That is the reason BHP was not on the list on guns to consider. Thanks.

[Jim Watson]

You know, if you have the magazine disconnect removed then all those issues with the High Power go away. Just so you know.


Sorry, Tex. Just so you know the subject got noticed by the management and a ruling was handed down that it was against IDPA rules to disable any safety device or anything the maker calls a safety, specifically including Browning and S&W magazine disconnectors. You have to carry an extra empty magazine around to get your gun cleared and uncocked.

[aguyindallas]

I am a fan of "shoot what you carry" in IDPA. Thats what this is all about in my opinion. Sure, its good fun and gun games, but its founded on tactics of defense.

That said, I shoot a Glock 17, and my carry (when not sporting my 642) is some sort of Glock. Mostly a G23 or G26.

[dc9shooter]

I'm New to this THR venue but in answer to your question, I have shot all the guns on your list and then some. After shooting each I kept coming back to the Beretta. It felt the best in my hand. It felt the best balanced for me and I felt confident that I could shoot it well. So, what I have gleaned out of all this practice shooting is each hand is as different as the person it is attached to. You will find the right handgun and when you do you will know it. I started with a Beretta 96FS .40 cal handgun and then bought a Beretta 92FS 9mm. If you want to shoot a great 9mm, try the Beretta. I love both of my Beretta's.

[Dr.Rob]

off that list the 226 is a stand out... fit my hand really well... at the time I wanted one though it was 3x the price of a Hi-power clone.

Police trades and re-furbs have made the price drop a lot. 226 is a good piece.

[Texfire]

You know, if you have the magazine disconnect removed then all those issues with the High Power go away. Just so you know.

Sorry, Tex. Just so you know the subject got noticed by the management and a ruling was handed down that it was against IDPA rules to disable any safety device or anything the maker calls a safety, specifically including Browning and S&W magazine disconnectors. You have to carry an extra empty magazine around to get your gun cleared and uncocked.

I should have included the disclaimer that I don't shoot IDPA and didn't know if there was a rule against it. Thanks for the correction.

However I do feel, at least for me, that removing the disconnect makes the High Power safer as it conforms to the same manual of arms as my other single actions, and doesn't require inserting a magazine to release the hammer when making it safe.

As far as carrying an extra mag about, well at least those silly ten rounders will have a purpose again. :)

Tex

[Jim Watson]

I should have included the disclaimer that I don't shoot IDPA and didn't know

Yes you should. I could write a new Pet Peeve thread about Net experts posting advice on things they do not do.

You are technically right, though. I agree that a magazine disconnect serves only to complicate gunhandling. But the rule is clear, although it is roundly ignored at club level shoots. I saw a guy with a neutered BHP just the other day.

I recently outlined a procedure by which a shooter could manage his S&W 952 through an IDPA stage with the minimum of fuss, using one extra magazine both for the Barney Bullet and for dropping the hammer. He read that and decided to campaign his Sig-Sauer.

[Texfire]

I should have included the disclaimer that I don't shoot IDPA and didn't know if there was a rule against it. Thanks for the correction.

Yes you should. I could write a new Pet Peeve thread about Net experts posting advice on things they do not do.

You are technically right, though. I agree that a magazine disconnect serves only to complicate gunhandling. But the rule is clear, although it is roundly ignored at club level shoots. I saw a guy with a neutered BHP just the other day.

Jim, I agree with what you say about net experts, but one of my Pet Peeves is those who quote fragments of another post which color or change the intent of the statement, or those who feel inclined to jump on others for honest omissions. Especially since I was clarifying and specifying my lack of knowledge about IDPA and never claimed to be an "expert" on IDPA in general or on High Powers in specific. I was simply pointing out that a High Power without the magazine disconnect had none of the problems previously mentioned in the thread.

That aside, I don't really want to hijack this thread any more than it has already been, or start a flame war on something as silly as this, and don't think that you were intending to be rude in your reply, so I'm willing to drop the issue.

But for the record I don't feel my High Power is neutered, just restored to fully operating function. ;)

Tex

[Joe D]

The reason you don't see BHPs in competition is you just can't stick those square top mags into the gun. Been there and tried to.
A lot of guys like the G34. I prefer the G35 over it. First it is softer shooting when loaded to a 128-130 pf. It can be shot in more divisions of IDPA and IPSC than the G34.

[tanksoldier]

Sig 226 in 9mm.

It's what I carry, it's what I shoot. Awesome gun.

You can buy those 10rd ban-mags for cheap these days and they'll work just fine for IDPA. Pick up some MecGar 17rd mags for carry and you're set.

[Browns Fan]

Kimber Ultra Carry, good choice! I started shooting IDPA with mine many years ago. I picked up an XD9 for the same reason... ammo cost. I like the XD platform so much, I picked up the .45 acp.

The Kimber is still my #1 carry choice BTW.

[bp78]

I bought a Armscor 1911-A2. A 9mm single action wide-body 1911 and it's been a great IDPA ESP gun. The Para-Ordance P18-9 is the original.

Inexpensive hi-cap mecgar mags, and the double stack design gives nice wide magazine well that is easy to reload.

[robertbank]

My vote would go to the CZ 75/85 to the EAA Witness platform. Much better triggers than the Hi-Power and you have the double strike capability if needed.

I thought the Para P-18 was to heavy for ESP after the rule changes. Or have I got that wrong?

Take Care

Bob

[ACE21]

I use the HK USP .40 cal with the 4.2 inch barrel for IDPA and I've never had any problem with it.