NCIS check denied!?


Desk Jockey
August 19, 2006, 06:34 PM
So I took my recalled LeverEvolution ammo back to the gun shop today to see if they could trade me for the same ammo from a different lot. Better to let them deal with Hornady than me, I thought. They were willing to do it, but are sold out and backordered on that ammo.

That wasn't good, but not really a big deal. But what happened next might be a real problem.

While there, I decided to buy the Browning Buckmark that I've thinking about for a while. But the NCIS check came back denied from the Colorado Bureau of Investigation! There's no legitimate reason for this, but obviously, this is something that I'm going to have to get straightened out.

I never had a problem before, as recently as 5 months ago. Haven't even had a speeding ticket since then, but something seems to have been stuck on my record during that time.

Has anyone else had to deal with this? I'm wondering how much time and effort I might be in for in getting erroneous data off of my file.

This hasn't been a good day so far....

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August 19, 2006, 06:38 PM
I never had a problem before, as recently as 5 months ago. Haven't even had a speeding ticket since then, but something seems to have been stuck on my record during that time.

Did you pay the speeding ticket? The reason I ask is if not thier may be a bench warrant out for you that would cause a hit.

August 19, 2006, 06:39 PM
ouch. I haven't had to deal with that thankfully...but I definitely think it's in your best interest to straighten it out, no matter the expense or time. Who knows what mistake has been made?

Desk Jockey
August 19, 2006, 06:59 PM
Did you pay the speeding ticket?

No, I said that I haven't had one. No tickets, no court appearances or judgements of any sort. Nothing in 44 years (my entire life) that would put me in the "denied" category, and nothing has changed since the last firearm I purchased 5 months ago. I've passed this check here in Colorado 3 times before today.

I just hope it's a simple mistake that doesn't require a lot of time and attorney's fees to get fixed.

August 19, 2006, 07:07 PM
Maybe you could go to the local sheriff's office and look into it. They may tell you what happened. If the purchase was denied, I would think that a policeman would have been on the way to pay you a visit.

August 19, 2006, 07:54 PM
I'd check into it right away. 1st thing could just be an identity mixup. But if not, there might be something really wrong. Possibly an identity theft. And you'd need to start fixing that kind of problem ASAP.

Hope it works out okay


August 19, 2006, 08:23 PM
If you havent already found this stuff, here is some information to help you out:

Colorado Bureau of Investigation.

Agent in Charge: Susan J. Kitchen
Phone Number: 303-239-4235
Fax Number: 303-239-5848
Mailing Address 690 Kipling Street, Suite 3000
Denver, CO 80215

If you are denied by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation for the purchase of a Firearm you have the right to appeal the decision. We cannot disclose the reason(s) for your denial over the telephone, nor do we handle appeals in person. In order to appeal you MUST:

In writing, submit your intent to appeal.

Your request must include, the C.B.I. transaction number, your current mailing address, daytime phone number, and evening phone number.

Please mail all submissions to:
P.O. Box 280629
Denver, CO 80228-0629

Once we receive your intent to appeal, we will mail the reasons for your denial, within five business days.

Upon receiving the reasons for your denial, if you choose to continue the appeal process, you must provide certified documentation of the charge(s) noted, showing the final disposition(s) of the noted charge(s). PLEASE SEND ORIGINALS OF ALL DOCUMENTATION, they will be sent back to you.

If you have sent complete and proper certified documentation, showing the disposition(s) of the charge(s), we will issue a Reversal of Denial letter to you in the mail. This letter must be given where the original transaction was denied. If you prefer to purchase a firearm at a different dealer a new background check will be required.

Based on the dispositon(s) received, we will update our records so that the same charge(s) will not affect your future purchases in Colorado. However, we have no authority to update criminal history records from another state.

In the event that additional charges are found during the appeal process, you will be notified and given the opportunity to appeal those charges.

August 19, 2006, 08:30 PM
First, contact your FFL dealer. Have him give you the NTN # from the application given to them by NICS. With that go to..

Find the NICS Gun Buyer Resolution Guide, and you can find out why, and how to resolve the issue by filing a NICS Voluntary Appeal.

Good luck

August 19, 2006, 08:40 PM
I just picked up an Ishapore Enfield and a K31 from a dealer today. I have CHL so I don't need the background check. I haven't had to put up with that for 4 years or so.
I only got denied once and that was late Sunday afternoon of a gun show and apparently everyone was getting delayed. They cleared it within a couple days, but it pissed me off since this particular shop was on the other side of Houston and was not open on weekends. It took 2 or 3 weeks to arrange to get over to their shop.

August 19, 2006, 09:04 PM
Same thing happened to my cousin. He had a brain fart and reversed 2 numbers in his SS#. The dealer had to wait 3 days and resubmit, went through without any problems. Maybe it was something similar.

August 19, 2006, 09:16 PM
reversed 2 numbers in his SS#.

Thats why I leave that line item empty.

If they can't figure out who I am from my DL# then thats their problem... The more forms of ID they have to sort out, the more opportunities it is to F it up.

Good luck in your inquiries with CBI! Hopefully they'll get things in order, although I do think it is bureaucratic BS that they have to do everything via mail and won't deal over the phone. I can understand them not wanting to deal face to face out of an abundance of caution for safety, but geeze, why make the process any slower than it needs to be???

August 19, 2006, 10:48 PM
This is one of those "brother of a friend" stories.

Many moons ago this guy I know tried to buy an AR-15 not long after his 21st birthday. Goes to the gun store, puts down his cash, jumps through the hoops. Denied by NCIS.

He calls the number the gun store gives him to find out why. This is the conversation as he tells it:

Him: "Hi, my name is ... and on this date I was denied a background check and have absolutely no idea why."
Rep: "You were randomly denied."
Him: "I was what?"
Rep: "You were selected to be randomly denied."
Him: "In case I might randomly be a criminal?"
Rep: (Sigh.) "Go pick up your gun, sir."

Your tax dollars at work?

I don't know how true it is, but that's how he says it happened. He's now the owner of an AR-15 and a Beretta M92FS, no problems whatsoever.

August 19, 2006, 11:10 PM
You should challenge it. If you are unlucky enough to get a real anti doing the check, they will deny based on a name match to a crimminal and won't check any further. I have a common name and had it happen, randomly, 3 times for about a 30% denial rate. I won all three challenges, but what a PITA! I also had problems with TSA over someone at my company using their credit card to book my business travel and causing me to be on some sort of watch list (a long story) but the NCIS problems happened before that. Don't give up or the antis win!!!

August 19, 2006, 11:20 PM
Are you delayed or denied? I see confussion in this thread they are totaly differant.

Desk Jockey
August 19, 2006, 11:53 PM
Are you delayed or denied?

Denied. The FFL gave me the computer printout stating that I was denied, and that all appeals must be in writing, include this info, send to this PO box, etc. I called the CBI number on the form, but of course, they'll only answer on weekdays during business hours. Not that it will matter, they state on the form that they can't give the reason for denial over the phone.

I MUST challenge this and get it straightened out. It has to be either something trivial like a number transposed (I hope), or it's just erroneous info somehow showing up when they run my name and number. Either way, I have to get it fixed ASAP.

Finch, that's a little more info than I had, thanks. It might be difficult for me to provide the requested "certified documentation" since there have never been any charges against me. I did find the CBI web site this evening and paid $6.85 to confirm that they have no arrest records under my name.

Thanks for the comments, gentlemen. I'll post a follow-up when this is resolved. Looks like it will take a minimum of a week, even for the simplest of errors.

August 20, 2006, 12:12 AM

when I worked for an FFL we saw that alot with common names. Almost any XXX Smith, or XXX Andrews, etc were guarentee'd either a delay, or an hour hold-time for a check. Most of the CBI agents I ever dealt with tried to be as quick as possible. Even with the common names they'd give you the curtosy update "still working..." when on the phone. Granted, this was 4 years ago, and I understand they have a new online system now, so who knows.

Generally speaking, if someone was denied, you found out when the Deputys showed up, asked the customer a few questions, then led them off in cuffs.

Desk Jockey-

Good luck with getting everything fixed... I hope there is some way you can get a refund on your search... I wonder if it could count as a credit/deduction for the IRS?!?!?!

Again, I hope it gets resolved quickly!

August 20, 2006, 01:01 AM
ZeroDGZ, Did that occur back in Delaware? Interestingly, I read that Delaware has one of the highest denial rates in the country. I wonder if the random denials had anything to do with that?

BTW, nobody was denied a gun purchase by the NCIS system- EVER. The system that gives the magic number is NICS- NCIS is a TV show.

Desk Jockey
August 20, 2006, 01:22 AM
BTW, nobody was denied a gun purchase by the NCIS system- EVER. The system that gives the magic number is NICS- NCIS is a TV show

MP- Good catch! I'm surprised no one noticed my typo earlier (including me). I have a friend who has worked for NCIS in DC for about 10 years. He'll be disappointed to hear that it's just a TV show. :D

Here in Colorado, the state does the check and it's officially called the "Colorado Instant Criminal Background Check System", or InstaCheck. I thought I'd use the widely-recognized acronym, but couldn't even manage that properly. Think I'll call it a day...

August 20, 2006, 05:54 PM
My only denial was most interesting. Turns out they were suspicious because I put down the wrong sex, wrong color hair, wrong dob, wrong weight and wrong height. When I asked how that could be, they said Petra Hernandes in Toledo, Ohio was obviously not this skinny caucausian male in Washington State. When I asked how that had anything to do with it, they said she was the latest person with that SSN.

I had not entered the SSN.

Toledo police weren't interested, ICE wasn't interested, FBI wasn't interested, HomeLand Security wasn't interested, Ohio AG wasn't interested, Washington State AG wasn't interested. My local US Congressman made one telephone call and somebody got interested. So far as I know, that lady(?) is still using my SSN and working somewhere in Ohio. Which is interesting, because I'm drawing out just about what she is putting in.


August 20, 2006, 06:13 PM
Sorry to hear that you got improperly denied. Thats gotta be scary to know that the govt has you tagged, despite being a law abiding citizen. :eek:

August 20, 2006, 06:37 PM
MP510: Yes, it was in DE. Good guess!

That place is a nightmare. Suffice to say I don't live there anymore...

August 20, 2006, 06:53 PM
they said she was the latest person with that SSN.

You just hit one of many reasons I vehemently object to illegal immigration. Many illegals use random and/or stolen SSN numbers. This is identity theft. The illegals will often apply for credit using that SSN and it can cause people tax problems with the IRS. (Your audited because you didn't report your income from 3 other jobs that show having paid taxes on that SSN). :fire: :cuss:

As to the NICS check for the original poster, definetely dispute it. I have heard of people being denied based on someone with a similar name has a warrant/arrest/conviction. This could have hit their records recently. This is one of the reasons I'm getting a CHL. In Texas, you can show your CHL and skip the check.

August 20, 2006, 07:24 PM
I hope you can get it straight.

I was delayed trying to but an SG for my kid one christmass (dove and ducks). It was only my second gun purchase. Nearly 10 years apart.

I was a little miffed at being held in that system with no idea why.

My wife bought it for the boy at it was late in the day.

Never been delayed since but I've always been prepared to have to come back. :(

I felt like a criminal with all those gun shop people looking at me like that. Not how I like to be precieved by others even if it is so random, others cast their eyes on me negatively.

August 20, 2006, 08:16 PM
I've been denied. It was a valid hit from a youthful indiscretion but nothing that prohibits me from buying a firearm... or should have even lent itself to. This was after quite a few 'proceeds'. I went through the whole appeal process which took 4 1/2 months and finally got to pick up my pistol.

I didn't go through my state like you have to, I went through NICS. I imagine the process is the same. You ask the CBI people for the reason you were denied. They will send you the reason and a fingerprint card and some spiel about if you deny the reason, get these fingerprints taken and send them back to us. THEN, they'll run your fingerprints, see if they actually match the prints on file from the alleged crime. If they match, then you have to provide some sort of proof that it's not disqualifying (court records). If they don't match, then you get a crappy governmental apology and a certificate to take to the FFL. The process for me took 4.5 months, but I dont' know if the state is faster or not.

After my 4.5 month appeal process with the NICS I finally got a proceed. I then entered the Voluntary Appeal File where they keep my info at NICS and they gave me a PIN number to put on the 4473. That took 2 months. If you can enter the VAF, I advise it as soon as possible. If you get consistant delays, you should enter the VAF as well... you just send them a fingerprint card.

Bottom line, if you don't have anything in your history to make you prohibited, then don't worry. It just takes time to straighten out, and they really don't care about're already guilty in their eyes.

And no, the cops don't come get you for a denial lol. NICS denies like a quarter million purchases a year, I doubt that's high on the agenda of the local PD.

In my experience, and it's only my experience... if the people at NICS can find a good reason to deny you, they will... be it legit or not. Chances are you won't follow up on it. My denial reason wasn't even fuzzy... just government drones having bad days that dont care about our rights in the first place.

good luck

August 20, 2006, 08:33 PM
random denial = someone pushed the wrong button and doesn't want to admit a screwup

The Deer Hunter
August 20, 2006, 08:37 PM
"No, I said that I haven't had one. No tickets, no court appearances or judgements of any sort. Nothing in 44 years (my entire life) that would put me in the "denied" category, and nothing has changed since the last firearm I purchased 5 months ago. I've passed this check here in Colorado 3 times before today.

I just hope it's a simple mistake that doesn't require a lot of time and attorney's fees to get fixed."

you could always just go on a random crime spree so it would fit

August 20, 2006, 08:58 PM
Here is some interesting reading while you are waiting for your appeal to process (I have read ALL of this lol)

Notable quotes:

Typically, out of every 100 background checks processed via the NICS Section, approximately eight transactions are delayed for further review, research, and evaluation in order to determine a final transaction status.


Total requests - 4,685,018
Total denials - 63,675
Total denials resulting in appeals - 11,349
Percentage of denials that file appeals - 11,349
Percentage of appeals that result in a denial overturn - 27%

What does this mean to you? Of the 63k denials, only 18% of those denied actually file an appeal. Of those that file an appeal, 27% of those prove that the denial was erroneous!!!!!!!!

Of course, these are only NICS numbers. 4,002,653 transactions are carried out by POC states and it stands to reason that the numbers are probably close to the same.

Just file your appeal and be patient. You'll be OK... it's just the govt in action.. they'll deny you in 3 days but take 6 months to review their decision and admit they were wrong. The wheels of justice spin slowly. You probably won't need a lawyer either... just time.

While you are waiting.. do what I did. Read up on every gun law imaginable and find out the process to get everything.

Since I have been denied I have...

Got my denial overturned.
Entered into the VAF so I have no delays
Got my C&R FFL
Got my concealed pistol license
Begun preliminary work on getting an SBR and AOW... about to form an LLC.

If they screw you, prove yourself right and get everything you possibly can. I'm putting the F back in Freedom lol.

Dave Workman
August 20, 2006, 09:47 PM
Anybody think this might be caused by IDENTITY THEFT? Some jerkweed grabs your identity, does the crime(s), gets popped, your ID gets flagged until the trouble is cleared up, and in the meantime, you get treated like a criminal.

I have been delayed once overnight and once for about 30 seconds when, believe it or don't, while I sat listeningh to my FFL pal, a supervisor came on the line and said that the transfer should go through. That stunned me a bit, but all's well that ends well.

The other time I found out that the clerk DELIBERATELY gave the wrong SS number which flagged a delay. The reason? I can only speculate this jerk wanted to give me some trouble. He no longer is employed at the gun shop where this occurred. Oh, well.

August 20, 2006, 10:07 PM
I've never been denied, after many years and over a dozen purchases.

I don't know if this is proper or not these days, but I ALWAYS put down my SSN. I have first-hand knowledge that there are several convicted felons with my same name, first and last (and at least one has my same middle initial) living in the same county as I do. I don't know if the use of my SSN has saved me any trouble or not, but like I said, I've never been denied...

August 21, 2006, 09:58 AM
Here we have a state permit to acquire handguns. Background check occurs when you apply for such a permit or for a CCW permit rather than at purchase time. After having both permits for a number of years I got denied. The sheriff's office told me the nature of the problem.

Seems that a youthful indiscretion back in 1963 for which I paid a $25 fine was some how listed as a different charge, one that was a felony. I had to phone up the county courthouse back in my home state. They dug through all the old records in the attic and found the case and corrected the listing in the state records which filtered through to the federal record. All in all it took about six weeks to get things ironed out. But there was never an appeal process as such. I guess you'd call it a correction of the records.

Thank God they still had the old records in the attic. Where would I have been if the courthouse had burned down or the tree rats were getting their nesting materail from the attic?

August 21, 2006, 11:47 AM
I've been denied. There are about 30 people in the entire country with my first and last name. I don't know why I was denied; at the time of my denial there 7 same-first/last names in the state. There are only 2 "of me" nationwide if my middle intial is included, and one of me if my middle name is spelled. (these are facts--I was inside the PD as a ride-along w/my LEO friend, watching an NICS check of my first and last name on the computer screen) Obviously, we were not all born the same year--even for my first/last name, I am the only one born in XXXX year; the nearest guy my age is 7 years older, but I can see how that caused NICS some confusion. :rolleyes:

In any case, my experience was the same as FTF's. I requested the paperwork for an NICS appeal, submitted my fingerprints along with the documents (for about $40+ in expenses :cuss: [$25 fingerprint fee, $10 notary fee, $5 fingerprint card, $8 registered mail, etc.]). About 5 months later, whatever problem caused the denial was cleared, because I haven't been denied since.

The whole episode was odd, because I'd never been denied when I lived in CA; I assume that the 10-day waiting period there may have allowed some NICS clerk to scrutinize all the same-named records and arrive at the correct conclusion that my record was clean and a denial was unwarranted. The denial happened after I moved out of CA (I am the only one with my name in my state, and still I got denied). As I said, once the appeal was approved, I've never had another problem; in fact, all the subsequent NICS checks are much faster since the appeal was processed.

August 21, 2006, 12:01 PM
Here in Colorado, the state does the check and it's officially called the "Colorado Instant Criminal Background Check System", or InstaCheck.

Only the government would try to claim with a straight face that something that takes upwards of an hour is anywhere near "instant."

Comedian Dane Cook's bit about the DMV is spot on. Even in the year 3000 when everything will be instant, the DMV (InstaCheck) will still take 9 seconds.

Desk Jockey
August 21, 2006, 12:41 PM
Mailed my "intent to appeal" letter this morning. Hopefully this will be a matter of a few weeks, not months. But it will move at governmental speed, so I'm not holding my breath.

I did include my SSN on the BATF form in hopes of avoiding just this scenario. My name isn't as common as Smith, but there are at least 3 others in Colorado with the same first, last, and middle initial. Fourteen with the same first and last, according to When I lived in Virginia, someone about a mile away had the same first, middle, and last names, and his wife's first name was only one letter different than my wife's. This caused problems at the bank once and at the dry cleaners on a monthly basis. Never did meet the guy.

According to the CBI statistics, the "InstaCheck" process averages just over 18 minutes. That's about what it took the previous two times for me, both of which were on weekdays. It was running about 40 minutes on Saturday when I was attempting to purchase this time. Not exactly "instant", but it beats heck out of a 3-day waiting period.

CBI data from 1999-2005 shows that about 4% of all Colorado transactions are denied, and that about 1 in 3 denials is appealled. Of those that appeal, 51% are successful in reversing the denial.

All I can do now is wait for a response. And read up on things, as FTF suggested.

Thanks for the support, everyone.

August 22, 2006, 12:58 AM
Since NICS I have bought, sold and traded many guns. Have had CCW Licenses in FL and now in CO and FL. I never had a single problem in FL. In Colorado I have had 2 Delays for one full week and 1 Denial. This is about a 30% problem rate for me in Colorado. I challenged the Denial and won the appeal. For me, the issue is the inconsistency. My advise is that if you know there is no valid reason for a Denial, go through the appeals process, get notarized originals of the form and make copies. A notarized appeal form will make the processors of the paperwork fear that they will get a summons and get hauled through the "process". If you don't stand up for your rights then don't expect anyone else to do it for you.

Desk Jockey
August 31, 2006, 06:45 PM
Update to my NICS denial:

I received a response today from the CBI. They said that the denial was due to the arrest of someone with my name and same date of birth, but who was not me. They say that they have adjusted the record to prevent this problem for me in the future. My transaction is now approved.

It seems to me that if they had only looked at the SSN the I provided on the form, they could have approved me 12 days ago.

But the good news is that this was cleared up with a minimum of effort on my part. Now I have to go see if that gun is still available.

Jim Watson
August 31, 2006, 06:47 PM
The bad news is that now you know who is boss.

I think a lot of such hangups and "computer errors" are just to let us know who is in charge. Am I paranoid? Am I wrong?

September 15, 2006, 02:45 AM
This response is obviously very late in coming, but I just happend to find this thread... Anyway, this is one good reason to put your SSN down on the form. I know it says optional, and I know that some people range from hesitant to downright unwilling to put it down, but the fact is that if you have a name that is fairly common, you can get denied if they can't identify you from the other "Bob Smith" that has a felony and lives in your town. For me, I figure its a federal form, and the government already has my SSN, so I don't worry too much about it. It's obviously a choice, but it's worth considering.

September 15, 2006, 03:18 AM
I'm sort of late to this discussion but here's my experience -- same thing...purchased several guns here in state, never had any issues with the law (traffic tickets included), and out of the blue this February I was denied the purchase of a firearme by CBI .

I followed the instructions for the appeal process by sending in the letter indicating my intent to appeal. Stated that their info was in error and they must have me mixed up with someone else. I mailed the letter on a Tuesday, received a phone call that Friday from a guy at CBI...he says, "yeah, it looks like a case of misidentification...even then, I had to go downtown, get printed and mail to CBI in Denver. Four weeks later I get a letter in the mail stating that I was a "victim of misidentification." NO KIDDING....the guy they mixed me up, well, the spelling of his first name was different than mine, and the birthdate was off by two months. Same day, same year, different month.

I asked the CBI guy if they'd checked my SSN against this other guys and he tells me that they only look at name and DOB. So, if you live in Colorado don't bother listing your SSN on the form because the CBI doesn't use it to discriminate you from someone else you might be.

Now anytime I want to buy a gun, I need to bring in the CBI letter with me...what a pain.

Your process seems to have gone a bit smoother than mine. They insisted that I send in my prints to prove that I wasn't the other guy on their sh*t list.

September 15, 2006, 01:50 PM
Another day late, dollar short reply.

My co-worker has a very "John Smith" name and he was just telling me that he has to renew his driver's license, which always means jumping through ten hoops because there's some felon with his name and birthdate that he always has to "prove" he's not.

I bought my first AR lower a couple of weeks ago. I hesitated on the SSN field because of my tinfoil undergarments, but then thought of my friend and how much it would have killed me to wait even more than the ridiculous MD "7" days I was already staring at. So, I put it down.

I wish I'd seen this when it first posted. I would have felt like such a badass for suggesting the eventual outcome.

September 15, 2006, 02:25 PM
sheesh, I haven't bought a gun since the background checks have been started (yeah, its been that long :( )

after reading thru this thread I wonder if I'll even be able to.

Gonna try for my first one in a couple weeks, hope there's no trouble. I have an uncommon name though (at least I think I do)

September 15, 2006, 03:28 PM
Try changing your name to Hyam Knott Affelondamytt to avoid things like this.


September 15, 2006, 04:14 PM
NICS. You've confused the FBI with a television show.

Note that there is a NICS Denial appeal form available. If this becomes a problem, you may wish to file. You have, IIRC, a mere 10 days in which to do so; NICS, however, can - and will - take its own sweet time addressing it.

September 15, 2006, 04:37 PM
:evil: Actually I was delayed when I went to pick up my Bushmaster Back in Feb. It is mildly embarrassing being told there is a problem, and you have to wait a day or so while sitting in a store with other customers standing directly behind you. Add to that the vacuous feeling of extreme dissapointment driving home empty handed sobbing shamelessly while unconsciously swerving in and out of oncoming traffic. :eek:

September 15, 2006, 04:40 PM
Here, a denial for an outstanding warrant or any sort of warrant doesn't even get a "no" gets a cruiser arriving outside the store to meet you.

It does keep petty criminal punks from even trying.

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