Runt is Everywhere!


May 8, 2003, 01:38 AM
Runt, you made the front page of my ISP ( in a double-pic accompanying a link to the John Walsh show ambush of women gun owners. Recognized you as soon as the page came up. Oleg is one lucky guy.


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May 8, 2003, 01:45 AM

They're using Oleg's poster as a graphic link to Fox news. I see no attribution to .


May 8, 2003, 03:35 AM
Nothing in the page source, either.

Don't know if the filename properly matches Oleg's naming scheme, but at least they're not ripping it off his server (like those KKK idiots did back in the day, )

May 8, 2003, 05:57 AM
Did anyone read the article? Wow, I have a newfound disrespect for Mr. Walsh. I knew there was a reason that I didn't watch that show (besides having a job).

May 8, 2003, 06:43 AM
why is her left index finger around the front of the trigger guard?


May 8, 2003, 07:10 AM
Just for that purpose. It's an alternative method for a good, solid two-hand hold.

El Tejon
May 8, 2003, 08:01 AM
280, it's in the gun rags. When in Rome (or Huntington Beach), . . .:D

May 8, 2003, 08:15 AM
i kinda figured that but i just hadda ask...

the gunrags must be wrong,,,i always thought the other hand was for your other gun


El Tejon
May 8, 2003, 08:20 AM
280, no, no, no. Your knife!:D

May 8, 2003, 08:21 AM
oops, my bad...:D

added later,,,then i gotta go to work

after thought...

i see that grip in terms of preventing the gun from being taken away as opposed to accurate shooting.

am i close?


May 8, 2003, 09:21 AM
Since we don't have CCW here in Ohio (yet), I use my other hand on the forend of my Maverick/Mossy, the M-1, the M-44 Mosin-Nagant, .....


Like sooo many others, I also have a new-found loathing and disrespect for John Walsh....a lieing 2-faced lieing 4-flushing lieieng weasel lieing rat-bas**** LIAR.

:cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

May 8, 2003, 09:40 AM
guess i wont be watching walsh's show!
im glad fox news posted the article on their website thought, kudos to them

El Tejon
May 8, 2003, 09:46 AM
[old gun dork geezer voice] 280, the "finger forward" hold was popular in '70s gun rags. Uncle Mel and Mikey-Mike wrote a lot about it and it became "the style at the time" (I wore an onion on my belt and took the ferry to Shelbyville).

Why it became hip and cool, I do not know. Most likely because it was different and via "shaggy doggie" stories it became gun shoppe chic, the latest thing, or in El Tejonspeak, proto-tactical. Gun makers responding to their market (remarkable) and custom gunsmiths began producing weapons with the squared off trigger guard as others have stated.

May 8, 2003, 10:16 AM
I don't wrap my finger around the front of the trigger guard to be "hip" or "cool" - that grip style is what gives my runt hands the best, firm grip on the handgun. When I don't do that, I get alot more felt recoil and muzzle rise.

May 8, 2003, 10:59 AM
Awwww That's our adorable Runt, gettin' Siggy widdit! 50% Vietnamese...115% Tactical! :D

May 8, 2003, 12:23 PM
What are you guys talking about? What picture of Runt? Where, where, where???

May 8, 2003, 12:37 PM
They've changed the story and the pic.

It used to be this:

May 8, 2003, 12:58 PM
You're absolutely right, runt, regarding grip.

I try finger-over-the-trigger-guard, every time I buy a new gun, and a number of other variant grips, until I find the one that works best for me with that gun.

Not using a particular grip because some folks thought it is "stylish" is just as foolish as using particular grip because it is "stylish".

Try everything, and pick what works best.

May 8, 2003, 01:23 PM
280PLUS: If hooking the index finger of the support hand around the front of the trigger guard works for runt, then why question it?

I realize that you weren't intending to start trouble, but the wink makes your question appear a little sophomoric.

People need to realize that one particular grip or stance is not going to work for everybody because physical strength and stature varies. So you have to experiment and find what works best for you regardless if it goes against the textbook grip/stance that so-and-so from some big name shooting school writes about in the gunrag magazines.

May 8, 2003, 01:49 PM
What was Runt's motivation for the first picture?

Was it Oleg's cooking?
Or T.A.M.A.R.A.'s dirty gun cleaning chores?


May 8, 2003, 02:01 PM
What was Runt's motivation for the first picture?

Was it Oleg's cooking?
Or T.A.M.A.R.A.'s dirty gun cleaning chores?

LOL! Good one :p

May 8, 2003, 04:00 PM
no matter how hard i try, i cant stay out of trouble.

the wink was not meant in the way some have taken it.

i intended it to mean nothing more than a friendly gesture.

i figured she had a reason, i was just being:

A. curious and

B. concerned at the outside chance that she was holding incorrectly, remote i know but still, it never hurts to ask.

i returned here now because after thinking about it more, i realized that the grip she is using is effective in keeping control of the muzzle direction if there becomes a struggle for the gun,

especially given her size.

but i wanted to add that it would be more effective if her hands and the gun were pressed tightly to her body at elbow level.

if you have 2 hands on the weapon in that manner and you pull it tightly into your stomach it would be virtually impossible for anyone to deflect the muzzle or wrench it away, theyd have to move her whole body instead of just her hands and arms. meanwhile the muzzle is pointing directly at the assailant.

why do i say this?

wrestling experience,

if you keep your arms and elbows tucked in it makes it harder for your opponent to grab a wrist or upper arm and gain control of you. if your arms and elbows are out and i grab a wrist you're headed for the floor in a hurry. whether you like it or not.

anyhow, thats just my 2 cents as always

so runt, no offense intended and please try not to take any

but one suggestion, and don't get mad,

if you have to hold your gun like that to keep control over it, you might have too much gun in your hands?

;) <---- nothing more than a friendly gesture intended

El Tejon
May 8, 2003, 04:10 PM
trigger, it was not my intention to question it as a matter of gunfu. "If it works, call it HapKiDo and steal it." Just explaining the history involved in gun dorkdom.

Sorry if I made anyone mad. Geez, 280, we're just sooo smooth. Can I sleep in your doghouse?:confused:

May 8, 2003, 04:20 PM
as long as your fleas and my fleas can get along...

oh, if i INTENDED to end my question with a smart aleck smilie i woulda picked :rolleyes: or :uhoh: or :eek: or :what: or maybe EVEN :barf:

but to end THIS thought i choose


later again,,,

i mean, think about it, you lose the heavy hardware and replace it with two P-32's

now you got 16 reasons, eight in each hand, for the bg's to change their minds about messing with you.

tuck them both into your waist as described earlier,,,elbows in tight, blah blah,,,

and if youre really creative, maybe you got a third P-32 in yet another invisible spot. for the tight situations.


May 8, 2003, 07:29 PM
if you have to hold your gun like that to keep control over it, you might have too much gun in your hands?

Note the squared-off trigger guard. I find my left index finger works well to keep the beast lined up on target. Some folks knock the high-thumb/over-safety grip used on the 1911 variants, too...

Phantom Warrior
May 8, 2003, 08:57 PM
My pistol of choice is a Glock 23, which also has the aforementioned squared-off trigger guard with a curve for the finger to rest in. And I shoot the same way Runt does. I like that grip for two reasons. One, it puts my support hand inline with the gun rather than angled slightly down. This feels more comfortable and just seems like it "points" better. Secondly, I have fairly long fingers and it's easier to wrap my long index finger around the trigger guard than tuck it underneath. I agree with triggertime. If it works, it works.

I will say, 280PLUS does have a point about retention. I think it's important to remember that if someone is close to you their action may be faster than your trigger finger. Action is always faster than reaction. This is by no means a criticism of Runt. She isn't someone I'd want to pick a fight with. But if you are dealing with a determined assailant at close range retention and grappling are possibilities you should be considering.

That's my two cents. It's based on nothing but a few years of martial arts experience and common sense. If you disagree, feel free to.

May 9, 2003, 08:12 AM
ya learn somethin' new every day.

and if i didnt ask i wouldnt a learnt...

next question: what kind of pop gun is THAT? caliber?

very interesting...



p.s. - i worry about the small ones more than i do the big ones...

if thats any consolation.:)

May 10, 2003, 05:21 PM
The one that Runt is holding in the picture, or the one that almost broke the glass in my scanner's flatbed? ;)

May 10, 2003, 06:03 PM
someday I'm gonna get bigger hands,
then I can wrap a finger around the front to the trigger guard

I hope I get to be 6' and look like Tom Selleck too:neener:

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