Hi-Power: what condition?


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bg226
August 22, 2006, 10:31 AM
I believe the BHP manual says that the recommended carry is with the hammer down.:confused: Decocking the Hi-Power with a round chambered is scary.:D

What condition are soldiers trained to keep them in (ex. the UK)?

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HorseSoldier
August 22, 2006, 11:32 AM
Keep in mind that gun manuals are written by lawyers for lawyers. They also tend to advise never moving with a loaded gun, for instance :confused:

A BHP can be carried cocked and locked. Back when I carried one as a CCW a lot I carried with the hammer down, but I know people who carried them for years with the hammer back and safety on. I never had an AD lowering the hammer, they never had an AD with the hammer back and safety on in a holster.

GrandmasterB
August 22, 2006, 12:03 PM
Good Grief! The Hi Power was made to be carried Cocked & Locked. End of story.

Vitamin G
August 22, 2006, 12:18 PM
Same as a 1911. C&L

Coronach
August 22, 2006, 12:24 PM
C&L. It was designed for such.

Mike

Shear_stress
August 22, 2006, 12:55 PM
What condition are soldiers trained to keep them in (ex. the UK)?

I believe the Israelis were trained to carry the BHP with the hammer down.

Azrael256
August 22, 2006, 12:55 PM
Decocking the Hi-Power with a round chambered is scary. I think you may be confusing conditions 2 and 3. Lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber is condition 2, and is generally accepted to be an unsafe practice with a SA pistol. What the manual likely refers to is condition 3, which is hammer down on an empty chamber. There are kits available for the BHP (and probably others) that will allow a safe condition 2 carry by adding a decocking function. They're a neat idea, but I don't think they have been well received.

FWIW, every manual I have seen in recent years for a SA pistol (1911s and BHPs, mostly) has recommended condition 3 carry. As HorseSoldier mentioned, other manufacturers do the same. You'll find manuals for SA/DA pistols with decockers that recommend condition 3 carry. It's a liability cover for the manufacturer and is not sound advice for carry.

A soldier is likely to be trained to carry in condition 1 with a SA pistol and condition 2 with a DA pistol. Exactly which one would depend on what pistol his army issued to him. I can imagine a situation where orders might force him to carry in condition 3, but that would not be the preferred method.

Edited to add:

Shear_stress, we posted at the same time, so I didn't see your post until just now.

You are correct. I don't recall if it was the IDF or the civilian police or somebody else, but *somebody* in Israel was trained to carry in condition 3. If you'll search the S&T forum for "Israeli draw" you'll find something, and the video might still be there. The "Israeli draw" involved drawing a condition 3 weapon and racking the slide to chamber a round in a very quick motion. Around here, it is generally regarded as a neat trick, but one with limited practical use.

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