Another newbie looking for the GRAIL of ?'s


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ackattack
August 22, 2006, 05:22 PM
Hello to all, questions and then some more. Just got my Treso nipples for my .44 Remmie. Also got some wonder wads from Big Iron, and Rem #10 caps. Should I also put some lube i.e. Bore Butter on after the lead? Will load like so, 30-35 of Pyrodex- Wonder wad - .454. But does the barrel need the lube? I Thought why we use the wad was so we didn't need the lube after. If you Black Powder Gods say that I need to lube I shall, but how much is enough? Usually I don't use a wad, and I use bore butter/crisco to the full extent of the cylinder. Which makes a mess right after the first cylinder. Is a little dab will do you o.k.? Thanks to all, dominic P.S. is 777 really better or cleaner than Pyrodex or other brands?

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Cincinnati Slim
August 22, 2006, 06:06 PM
Howdy,

Good choice on the Treso nipples. They totally eliminated misfires on my Colts and Remmies. Also cured most of the Colt's "cap eating" problems.

As to powder choice just experiment and see what works better. Most revolvers seem to prefer a particular combo of cap, powder, ball and wad.

I've tried real black, Pyrodex and Triple Seven. Pyrodex's main advantage is availability. It's not subject to the shipping and storage regulations of regular black powder. I've found little difference in power ,accuracy or clean-up between Pyrodex and Real Black. Pyrodex does really STINK.:barf:
Black Powder has a brimstone/sulfur smell, Pyrodex has a weird acrid chemical odor in my opinion. It tends to set off my allergies in a indoor range and irritate my lungs and throat. I like 777 a lot. A little more energetic than Pyrodex or black so you can save powder with smaller charges or shoot hotter loads as you so choose. It also doesn't make me gag and I can shoot longer before tear-down/clean-up time. :)

The main thing is to tinker, experiment, shoot a lot and have fun !
Like I said, It's not just a revolver, it's a whole new hobby...

Happy Trails,

Cincinnati Slim

sundance44s
August 22, 2006, 06:21 PM
I`ve never used the under ball wads... so i don`t know how much lube you will get from them .. but i can say i only use the crisco/bees wax lube over 2 holes never all of them .. and i can shoot 100 times like this and never get a binding cylinder and am still hitting small targets at 50 + yards even with the last shot .Keeping the fouling soft in the barrel is a big plus and it does a good job of that . Doesn`t make near the mess this way eaither hardly noticable .I squirt the lube mix over the first shot to be fired and then another before the last hole .I use to use the mix over every shot and it is a messy deal .. so i started cutting back untill i found the right amount to keep thinks soft . The 2 hole lubeing works well even with Pyrodex and it`s some sticky stuff .During the winter months i can use straight crisco .. but in the summer heat i add 50 % bees wax to it ..so it doesn`t melt on my gun leather .

Manyirons
August 22, 2006, 06:48 PM
They AINT an never will be those lousy BLUNDER wads! No comparason. Now then ya puts em under tha ball or bullet an ya jus shoots.

No lube above em needed, they gots PLENTY.

Gatofeo
August 25, 2006, 01:53 AM
I have found Wonder Wads lacking in lubricant, over the years.
With Wonder Wads and their dry lubricant, the last couple of inches of the bore toward the muzzle are fouled.
With the same wad lubricated with Gatofeo's No. 1 Wad & Bullet Lubricant, the bore is clean all the way to the muzzle.
I started shooting cap and ball revolvers about 1970. Started using greased wads, per Elmer Keith's instructions, in the early 1980s. About five years ago I found the 19th century recipe for what was later dubbed, "Gatofeo's No. 1 Lube ..."
I made up a batch and soon realized I'd blundered onto an exceptional lubricant. It beats anything else I've tried over the years.
The recipe may be found in my post, "How to Best Use a Cap and Ball Revolver."
Stick to the recipe of mutton tallow, canning paraffin and beeswax. No substitutions! Anything else results in a decidedly inferior lubricant and lesser results.
I live in the remote Utah desert, where temperatures can easily reach 110 Fahrenheit (43.5 Celsius). In these conditions, I've had to put a lubricant over the ball, as well as use the wad between ball and powder.
But in most instances, a greased wad works fine.
When it's that hot, the humidity is very low. At such low humidity and in such high heat, the barrel gets very hot in short order. The felt wad doesn't carry enough lubricant to keep fouling soft, in these conditions.
But in conditions up to 100 degrees or so, the greased wad works fine.

What do I use for over-ball grease when needed? I like CVA Grease Patch, in the black and white squeeze tube. Sometimes hard to find but very good. I haven't tried Bore Butter because I have an ample supply of the CVA stuff, but I hear it's good.
Heck, plain ol' Crisco will in a pinch but in that high heat it's messy. It wants to run over everything. Keep a rag handy.

I've found best accuracy with black powder, in FFFG granulation. Pyrodex is okay if you can't get black powder in your area because of shipping limitations. Hodgdon 777 is good but, as has been pointed out, a little more energetic.
Hodgdon recommends no more than 30 grains equivalent in the stout 1858 Remington. I've fired this and it's all you need.
In a Colt 1860 I'd certainly use no more than 25 grains. I've tried a few cylinderfuls of it in my Colts but decided it may be straining the gun. Not worth it, when all I do is perforate paper and tin cans.

Resist the temptation and any advice to use more than 30 grains of 777 in the Remington .44. All things being equal, cap and ball revolvers are weak by design, not by their materials.
If you want a Magnum, buy a modern cartridge gun. Magnumizing cap and ball sixguns is a foolish endeavor.

Smokin_Gun
August 25, 2006, 03:30 AM
Gatofeo, I'm in the Mojave Desert at 110f and ran across a mix for lube pills that I use under the ball no nothin' over the ball. Just the right texture of Beeswax and parafin hold the lube of Olive/Soy Oil with out melting down in the heat or during firing. I can shoot Colts or Rems all day with out fouling or binding the Revs Arbors or Cylinder Pins. And accuracy is superb no hardening of the rifleing grooves or lands. Called um "Dang I'm Broke Lube Pills".
I know you prefer wooly wads and you do have a fine lube. And I'm sure of tallow probly working better and more authentic. But you may wanna check it out seeing how we are in about the same climate.
Let me know and will post or send the procedure.
SG

sundance44s
August 25, 2006, 09:42 AM
Looks like there`s more than one way to skin a cat and more than one way to lube a cap and baller ..and if`in ya can shoot her all day and never get a bind your doing somethin right .

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