What would you improve about your state's CCW law?


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Green Lantern
August 22, 2006, 10:56 PM
Here in NC:

-No carry in any place that serves alcohol. Guns and booze do NOT mix, but I'd like to go out to a nice place to eat and not have to disarm. Especially since I never touch alcohol anyway! :cuss:

-No carry in: Banks, areas of assemblies, parades, funerals, or demonstrations...:rolleyes:

(...I thought I heard we couldn't carry into places that charged admission, like a movie theater, but don't see it listed...)

And finally, that we MUST tell an officer we are carrying, even if not asked. I can see where LEO would appreciate this, but I can see it leading to some "awkward" moments.

Let's say you work in a retail store that sells Sudafed. By a miracle, company policy allows you to carry.

BUT...you have LEO customers. And even if they stopped shopping there, with the Sudafed laws, you're bound to get one in every now and then to check your records for possible meth-heads.

So, you're not going to be "concealed" very long as sooner or later you're going to have to blab that you're lawfully carrying a gun in front of co-workers, customers, or both! :what:

I say amend that to limit the "must notify" provision to traffic stops, or something. So that you don't feel like a criminal when you answer a casual "hello" to a cop on the street and don't tell him you're packing...!

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kengrubb
August 22, 2006, 11:18 PM
Washington state

Make it a Concealed Weapon License rather than a Concealed Pistol License, and get rid of all the silly, stupid knife ban or obfuscation statutes.

A defense to civil action law. See FS 776.085
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I21C235DB

However, there is no guarantee an intruder will be found guilty of a "forcible or attempted forcible felony".
Read State Farm v. Marshall, 554 So. 2d 504
http://makeashorterlink.com/?B32C215DB

Amend RCW 9.41.270 allowing open carry, but that may be OT.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.270

Amend RCW 9.41.280 allowing CPL holders to carry other than simply "while picking up or dropping off a student."
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.280

That's a good start.

kengrubb
August 22, 2006, 11:27 PM
Here in NC ... I thought I heard we couldn't carry into places that charged admission, like a movie theater, but don't see it listed
Unfortunately, you are correct. See §14-269.3 (http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-269.3.html)

FireBreather01
August 22, 2006, 11:28 PM
Wisconsin - actually having CCW would be a nice start! :mad:

crazed_ss
August 22, 2006, 11:29 PM
I havent even looked at the resrictions on where people can or cant carry here.

First things fist. I would like it if they this state was Shall-Issue..

Ramius
August 22, 2006, 11:38 PM
a big +1 on the prohibition of carrying in 'any place where alcohol is both sold and consumed'

I do not drink, never have, but it is getting harder and harder to find a resturant in my area (or any area, for that matter) that does not serve alcohol.

Also the movie thing, we all know that a movie theater parking lot is a dandy place to have your car broken into- and it'll be the end of the movie before anyone notices.

Aside from that, I'd love to have restrictions on where cities can ban CCW, like parks, bike trails, etc. I'd love to use the Salem Lake Greenway in Winston Salem, but they have a big 'no guns' sign at one entrance, and it goes through a hood I'd be very uncomfortable passing through unarmed. Somehow, I don't think the bad guys in that area obey the sign... :banghead:

Even with all the warts, though, I'm very happy NC has a CCW shall issue. It has greatly simplified my ability to be safe, and legal. Wish we'd had it years ago when I was driving a tractor trailer, bringing in produce in the VERY bad part of town.

mp510
August 22, 2006, 11:41 PM
I would scrap the suitability clause, that allows a CLEO to reject an application without haveing to provide a reason if he believes that a person is not suitable. Granted it has its uses, but a CLEO could call anyone not-suitable.

45Guy
August 22, 2006, 11:43 PM
I'm with Firebreather!!

Trazar
August 22, 2006, 11:55 PM
I myself was very surprised about the "sold and consumed" law in NC. It's a redundant law. The law says you can not have even 0.00000001% alcohol in your blood and carry concealed, yet you also can not carry in an establishment that sales and consumes? I can understand that possibly in an establishment where ONLY alcohol is sold (a bar/pub/sports bar), but now of days, all the restaurants know alot of the money they make is from alcohol sales so they push to get it in place no matter what. It's really one of the more stupid CCW laws. The one about no place that charges admission is just another one that is unfathomable. I can understand a football game at a major stadium or a large concert, but a movie? That's just ridiculous. There are more than a few laws that we need to correct, but like the others said I am just happy we have CC in this state. Also, I believe that in NC you are only supposed to disclose your CC license to an officer if he directly addresses YOU. He has to come up and speak to you before you have to say you are carrying (or not carrying, in your car you still have to say I have a CC and I DO NOT have a handgun).

Hkmp5sd
August 23, 2006, 12:00 AM
Remove all restrictions on where to carry. If you're dumb enough to carry into a bar, get drunk and shoot someone without having the law prohibit you, you are too dumb to carry period.

ksnecktieman
August 23, 2006, 12:49 AM
I would like to see all states copy the law of Vermont..... No permit required, and the statute says,,, You may carry, as long as you have no "criminal intent".

If anyone wants to clarify, or ridicule me for misinformation,,,,, proceed,,, IMHO the second amendment means what it says.

Langenator
August 23, 2006, 01:03 AM
I would add to kengrubb's list for Washington state:

-recognition of all states' CCW licenses, to include recognition of the right for those in states that don't require a permit. Word the law something along the lines of "any citizen of any of the several states who has permission to carry a concealed weapon in their state of residence, shall have the right to carry concealed weapons in this state."

-all publicly owned or operated facilities*-to include schools- shall be required to do the same thing as court buildings are required to do, to wit:

either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.

With the addition that, if a place of storage is not provided, persons must be allowed to carry their weapon(s) with them.

*private property is private property. If they don't like your weapons, they can still tell you to leave.

Autolycus
August 23, 2006, 01:21 AM
I dont think private homes and business should be forced to give you a place to store your weapon. Publicly funded facilities, buildings, and events are a different matter.

strambo
August 23, 2006, 02:07 AM
The states with all the restrictions are pretty funny. We'll let you carry a gun, but not around any other people...or legal substances (whether you use it or not).:rolleyes: What's the point? You can carry only in the places you are least likely to need it?

There shouldn't be any restrictions except the courthouse for security reasons. Private businesses have the right to control their property how they see fit. No Nanny State interference required.

Dr.Who
August 23, 2006, 02:22 AM
Illinios..... How about getting one! Get rid of Daley... Get republicians in....

arthurcw
August 23, 2006, 02:43 AM
The only thing I can think of is that Employers are allowed to prevent you from leaving your gun in your car when at work. I'm all for property rights and business owners have the right to not allow a gun on premises. But it's pretty asinine to say you are going to fire me for defending myself on the road to and from work!

Side note: I work from home using a company owned computer. Our Employee Handbook clearly states that I may not have a gun on company property. One day I was frustrated and put my gun on my company computer and snapped a picture. I sent it to my boss and said, “I guess you have to fire me now… PLEASE!” I didn’t work. :mad:

Frog48
August 23, 2006, 03:24 AM
Do away with licensing all together.

coat4gun
August 23, 2006, 07:47 AM
I just do not understand how people can justify any carry restrictions when there are some States with essentially none... and the blood is not running in the street.... while others (like North Carolina) have so many that I am feeling anxiety about carrying on my visit next week from PA.... and blood is still not running in the street.

Are the people in Vermont so much better and civilized then the people in North Carolina? I somehow don't think so.... Then why do they need to be told what and where to carry? It makes no sense.

I can carry in a bar in PA... I have never heard of a CCW permit holder going to a bar (because he/she can), have a few drinks and then start shooting up the place. It just doesn't happen. I guess those in PA just must be much more civilized then those in North Carolina??

I just can't stand injustice, and carry restrictions are unjust and unreasonable. I am responsible to protect myself and my family... I would be a fool not to carry, so carry restrictions actually prohibit me from going to certain places... I take my responsibility very seriously and will not be disarmed.

xd9fan
August 23, 2006, 07:53 AM
paperless like AK and VT

Hypnogator
August 23, 2006, 09:12 AM
All States: Require any governmental agency or private entity that prohibits concealed carry on their premesis to provide secure lockboxes at each public entrance for concealed weapons bearers to secure their weapons in while inside the premesis.

Also, impose strict liability on any such agency that if a visitor who disarms at the facility is injured, the agency will be liable for both real and punitive damages for any injury which could conceivably have been prevented had the visitor been armed.

That ought to get the attention of the corporate liability lawyers! :what: :eek: :D :D :D

El Tejon
August 23, 2006, 09:31 AM
I would change the colour--it's pink here!:uhoh: :scrutiny:

Something more tactical like coyote brown or black perhaps?:D

coltrane679
August 23, 2006, 10:16 AM
From Florida:

Adopt the VT/AK system for concealed carry.

Allow open carry.

PS: If anyone doesn't like their employer's policies, they can always get another job--that's how things worked forever until "the New Deal" (i.e. socialism) taught them that the government would strong-arm private businesses on their behalf in exchange for their votes and ever-increasing portions of their paychecks (to pay for all the gubmit thugs to enforce every damn thing they passed).

If you claim to hate coercive, overbearing government, you should be loath to ask it to use such tactics where you have a perfectly free choice already. No one ever said exercising rights might not have consequences on a private level--try going to work and telling your boss what you really think of him.

RealGun
August 23, 2006, 11:27 AM
I reject the notion that a business OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, uncontrolled ingress and egress, has the right to exclude being armed. I totally accept that entering someone's home requires permission, but if not free to carry on private property outdoors, when is one ever prepared for self defense?

Storage of firearms in a vehicle should be unconditionally legal. An employer would not have property rights to exclude firearms from outside a facility as in a parking lot. Entering a building armed should be subject to the owner or tenant's rules. However, the firearms would be more secure in a locker than in the average vehicle. I have a safe in my trunk, so maybe more would need something like that.

The first order of business in SC is to allow carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol, possibly reserving the restriction for any separate bar area. I don't like to be around alcohol but there are too many places where I can't or won't go in to eat.

I would also like to establish clearly that carry restrictions at the post office do NOT apply to CCW license holders. That is likely more a federal issue.

coltrane679
August 23, 2006, 11:34 AM
So, owners cannot condition entry onto their private property as they wish? No one compels you to visit ANY business or work any job. What concept of private property are you working from--or is this all just premised on what suits you? How is my parking lot different from my building--becasue you say so?

That's some philosophical basis to run a country--it just devolves a battle of raw politcal power. And the losers just whine a lot becasue they didn't get their way--so much for a government of laws, not men.

Welcome to America 2006. When so-called "conservative" enclaves such as gun boards are rfie with this kind of thinking, you know all hope is lost.

coltrane679
August 23, 2006, 11:35 AM
PS: The Post Office is a totally different issue, as that is a product of federal law, not the results of a private actor. No question that restriction should go down.

Northslope Nimrod
August 23, 2006, 11:51 AM
Utah

Pretty good compared to other states.

BUT...
1. I would clearly state that open carry is allowed....then people wouldn't freak out as much.
2. I would repeal the law that doesn't allow a loaded firearm to be carried in a vehicle. (this law doesn't apply if you have a permit)
3. I would repeal the law that prohibits carrying a loaded firearm on a public street. (doesn't apply if you have a permit) You see, you can open carry without a permit, but if you are on a public street you can't have one in the chamber on an auto....and you can't have one under the hammer or in the next cylinder on a revolver.
4. I would remove any fee for the permit.

RealGun
August 23, 2006, 12:04 PM
So, owners cannot condition entry onto their private property as they wish? No one compels you to visit ANY business or work any job. What concept of private property are you working from--or is this all just premised on what suits you? How is my parking lot different from my building--becasue you say so?

That's some philosophical basis to run a country--it just devolves a battle of raw politcal power. And the losers just whine a lot becasue they didn't get their way--so much for a government of laws, not men.

Welcome to America 2006. When so-called "conservative" enclaves such as gun boards are rfie with this kind of thinking, you know all hope is lost.

That's a pretty good job of flaming, not unexpected, but I fully appreciate what I am proposing. A business open to the public is clearly different than a private home and is typically not actually owned by an individual but a corporation. I would then have a different view of the sanctity of property rights. Whether you want to focus on this, perhaps hijacking the thread, is up to you. The distinction I drew was that during business hours ingress and egress are unrestricted.

I own a business and the door is locked, so I clearly have control of who comes in and why. If need to be "open to the public", I take whatever comes. If people come and go as they wish, assuming settled with the cashier, it's public, whether under my roof or outside.

FireBreather01
August 23, 2006, 12:07 PM
So, owners cannot condition entry onto their private property as they wish? No one compels you to visit ANY business or work any job. What concept of private property are you working from--or is this all just premised on what suits you? How is my parking lot different from my building--becasue you say so?

That's some philosophical basis to run a country--it just devolves a battle of raw politcal power. And the losers just whine a lot becasue they didn't get their way--so much for a government of laws, not men.

Welcome to America 2006. When so-called "conservative" enclaves such as gun boards are rfie with this kind of thinking, you know all hope is lost.

As one with Libertarian principles and leanings this is an issue that pulls me in both directions. On one hand I am fiercely loyal to the idea of private property ownership and the freedom to control that property as one wishes, as long as doing so causes no harm to others. On the other hand I am also a strong defender of the 2nd amendment, so these two principles can sometimes come in conflict with each other.

I don't think we should check our civil rights at the doorstep of private property that is open to the public for business. Employers should have the right to limit carrying within the confines of their property but should not be able to bar someone from storing a gun in their car - as I feel your car is an extension of your own private property, whether or not it is parked on public or private property.

coltrane679
August 23, 2006, 12:18 PM
Before roughly 1964, the idea that you could condition entry into your business as you saw fit was not just a "position"--it was the way things had always been, and this status quo was defended routinely by conservatives such as Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan and even the weasel who would later become Bush I.

Now, even those we now call "conservatives" cannot, in large part, even comprehend the issue. This is the result of what we call a paradigm shift.

It's amazing what the Left has achieved in this country--you really must give them credit.

cosine
August 23, 2006, 12:41 PM
Wisconsin - actually having CCW would be a nice start! :mad:
Beat me to it!

foghornl
August 23, 2006, 12:47 PM
Coupla things in the Ohio law...

Do away with that stupid "plain view while in the car" provision...i.e. concealed out of car, but whne you get in, weapon has to be in plain view...such as on the dash, in a plainly visible thigh holster, etc (or LOCKED in the glove box...) {thank you, Ohio Hiway patrol & Guv Booby Daft}

Close the Media Acces Loophole. Most of the Loony Leftist Mainstream Media Outlets publish names/ages/county of residence of the CCW License holders. Severl Bad Guys have already admitted using these published lists as 'shopping guides' while planning crimes.

mtnbkr
August 23, 2006, 12:48 PM
Short of going to a Vermont style system (which I totally support), I'd like to see the end of the "restaurant" ban in Va. I get tired of eating at Cracker Barrel, IHOP, and Golden Corral ('cause they don't serve booze).

Chris

cbsbyte
August 23, 2006, 12:48 PM
Though two are important enough.

Not having to retreat from a threat

Shall Issue.

WolfMansDad
August 23, 2006, 12:52 PM
"Vermont carry," i.e. no permit required.

No restrictions on where you can carry.

Make it illegal for businesses that deal with the public to forbid carry on their property. Make it illegal for a business to fire an employee for carrying legally on company property.

Make it illegal to shoot someone, except in self defense. Make it illegal to threaten someone with a firearm, except in self defense. Outlaw various negligent and stupid acts, e.g. make it illegal to leave your loaded firearm on the bench at the playground while you go to the bathroom.

Hey, a guy can dream, can't he? ;)

Seriously, for California, shall-issue statewide would be a good start.

Chipperman
August 23, 2006, 01:07 PM
MA--
For people who have a Class A license, the restrictions are actually less than a lot of other states.

What I would change:
1. Make it shall issue (is discretionary now)
2. Make license good for 5 years and cost $30 (now is good for 4 years and costs $100)
3. Get rid of required courses (now is required safety NRA type course)
4. Make CCW is schools ok
5. Reciprocity with all other states (right now NO reciprocity)

All other stuff I would change does not relate directly to CCW laws
-Get rid of assault weapons ban
-Get rid of restrictive handgun "safety and testing" that severely limits choice of available handguns
-Get rid of state "Machine Gun License"
-Allow Suppressors, DD's and Short Barrel Shotguns

RealGun
August 23, 2006, 01:39 PM
Now, even those we now call "conservatives" cannot, in large part, even comprehend the issue. This is the result of what we call a paradigm shift.

Yeah, maybe...sort of like abolishing slavery and legally endorsed racial prejudice. It's not as if everything the old timers did is sacred.

coltrane679
August 23, 2006, 02:00 PM
True enough. Of course there was always a moral argument against slavery. I've yet to hear one against private property, except from communists.

Enjoy your company.

And if by "legally endorsed" you mean by force of law, then that is exactly NOT what we are talking about, as already discussed in the post office references.

RealGun
August 23, 2006, 02:16 PM
And if by "legally endorsed" you mean by force of law, then that is exactly NOT what we are talking about, as already discussed in the post office references.

I am not sure what you mean. State and federal law can become intertwined, when State law becomes abusive or outright corrupt. States can preempt local law as well.

Bubbles
August 23, 2006, 02:25 PM
Changes I'd make to Virginia's law:

- Carry in restaurants that serve alcohol would be legal (it was until 1996).

- Permits never expire, just inform the state of your new address if you move.

Devonai
August 23, 2006, 02:32 PM
Chipperman, it's a six-year permit now. Any progress is good progress, but I'm still up here in NH. :D

mbs357
August 23, 2006, 02:36 PM
I'd make it so CCW holders ride coasters for free at Busch Gardens.
\m/

coltrane679
August 23, 2006, 02:54 PM
What I mean is that nobody here (as far as I can tell) supports laws that bar carrying in post offices (for example), just as nobody (I frigging hope) would endorse laws like the Jim Crow laws of old. In both instances we are talking about government action in violation of Constitution.

Private actors are generally not bound by the Bill of Rights. As I alluded to earlier, the First Amendment does not prohibit private actors from curbing your "fredom of speech", for example. The government should not be able to punish you for saying "George Bush is an incompetent, power mad SOB"--period. On the other hand, if you go tell your boss, "Hey, you are an incompetent, power mad SOB," you are going to be out of a job, and the First Amendment is not going to do you a damn bit of good, nor should it--and this same result will apply if your boss is Ma & Pa fruit stand or Wal-Mart. Size, "open to the public", "corporations", and all the other ad hoc crap people have pulled out in this thread doesn't matter.

The Second Amendment is no different, and I've yet to hear a single damn explantion to the contrary, just a lot of whining about what people "want" and why the government should make other people give it to them.

mp510
August 23, 2006, 02:59 PM
I would change the colour--it's pink here!
El Tejon- I had the same response when I got my watercraft certificate, which in Connecticut is printed in pink- aww I feel my manhood slipping away. Somebody liberate my wallet.

Deanimator
August 23, 2006, 03:53 PM
Get republicians in....

You mean like ex-governor Ryan and Henry Hyde?

MrTwigg
August 23, 2006, 04:14 PM
MA--
For people who have a Class A license, the restrictions are actually less than a lot of other states.

What I would change:
1. Make it shall issue (is discretionary now)
2. Make license good for 5 years and cost $30 (now is good for 4 years and costs $100)
3. Get rid of required courses (now is required safety NRA type course)
4. Make CCW is schools ok
5. Reciprocity with all other states (right now NO reciprocity)

All other stuff I would change does not relate directly to CCW laws
-Get rid of assault weapons ban
-Get rid of restrictive handgun "safety and testing" that severely limits choice of available handguns
-Get rid of state "Machine Gun License"
-Allow Suppressors, DD's and Short Barrel Shotguns

I'll go with what Chipperman said but I'll add; Uniformity, having one licensing authority instead of having the CLEO of every city, town & village as the sole deceiding factor.

FireBreather01
August 23, 2006, 04:38 PM
Size, "open to the public", "corporations", and all the other ad hoc crap people have pulled out in this thread doesn't matter.

The Second Amendment is no different, and I've yet to hear a single damn explantion to the contrary, just a lot of whining about what people "want" and why the government should make other people give it to them.

I think you need to draw some distinctions here. Denny's was sued successfully for discriminating against their black customers. It's their private business, should they be allowed to serve whomever, and however, they choose? Employers are bound by the Equal Employment & Opportunities Act, so to say that government has no role in matters of civil rights is just false. How about smoking? Many municipalities have banned all smoking, regardless of whether or not the owner wants to allow it, private property rights be damned.

The Bill of Rights enumerates certain rights to us all, no matter if a private property owner or business owner wishes to pay attention to them or not, ignoring certain aspects of these rights will guarantee attention from the government.

Now I'm not advocating that one right holds sway over another, nor should my rights infringe upon anothers. But that is the whole of the issue, by steadfastly adhering to the rights of a private property owner it is possible to infringe upon the rights of another. And the government, at some point, may decide which of these supercedes the other. Rightly or wrongly, they certainly have in the past.

coltrane679
August 23, 2006, 04:43 PM
FB01--

You cite the great expansions of governement power over private parties in the last 40+ years as a good thing (apparently) and something we should just continue to build on.

Uh, where, exactly, do you see this trend leading?

UKTN
August 23, 2006, 04:49 PM
I would make the following changes to TN Hand Gun Carry Permit. Allow carry into restaurants that serve alcohol.
Permit carry in State Parks and National Forests. There are to many 2 legged predators to worry about let alone the 4 legged ones.

Chipperman
August 23, 2006, 04:57 PM
I'll go with what Chipperman said but I'll add; Uniformity, having one licensing authority instead of having the CLEO of every city, town & village as the sole deceiding factor.


If you make it "Shall Issue" that removes the whole problem.

Henry Bowman
August 23, 2006, 05:10 PM
As Foggy said, for Ohio it's:

1) remove the "plain sight in a vehicle" nonsense;

2) remove the ban on carry in restaraunts that serve alcohol.

Candidate for governor, Ken Blackwell (R) support both of these fixes. :) The second one will be fought hard by "food service" unions.

cmidkiff
August 23, 2006, 05:18 PM
ksnecktieman, Grant48, xd9fan, coltrane679, WolfMansDad... all have the right idea.

The only law we need on firearms is the one that says that my right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Anything else is, by definition, infringement.

If you commit a crime... then you should be punished for that crime. What difference does it make if that crime was commited using a firearm, or your bare hands?

If you are a free citizen of this nation, you should be able to purchase, and carry, concealed or open, any firearm your heart desires and your wallet can afford.

:banghead:

JCampGCO
August 23, 2006, 05:38 PM
I'll chime in for the ol' police state of Georgia.

Georgia laws is anti-gun to the core. Probate judges has discretionary power to issue firearms license and most do not issue within the 60 day time limit, which makes GA a "may issue" even though the law says "shall issue".

The places off-limits to carry exceeds even that of the states that are either no issue or hardly ever issue.

The places off-limits are as follows;

Public Gatherings - which are athletic or sporting events, churches or church function, political rallies or functions, publicly owned or operated buildings, and establishments were alcoholic beverages are sold for cosumption on the premises. - oh and the definition of a "public gathering" is not limited to those 5 areas. The courts have rule that any event or function that the public gathers or will gather for is a public gathering too and thus off limits. Gotta love the ambiguity there!

Oh wait there is more!

Any type of public transportation and/or transportation depots, terminals, bus stops, and airports. This even inlcudes an "area in close proximity to.." the public transportation depot/terminal/stop. It gets worse - it is a felony offense if you're caught carrying a weapon in these places. If it is a private company providing public transportation or "charters" then you must have written permission from the private company to board the bus, rail vehicle, or aircraft they own with your weapon.

Still more...

Wildlife management areas. No loaded weapons allowed in vehicles even if you're just passing through on the road that just happens to cross into a WMA. During hunting seasons you can posses a loaded weapon outside your vechicle on the WMA, but it has to a weapon that is allowed to hunt for whatever particular game is in season. The silver comet trail goes through the Paulding Forest WMA, A perfect place for predators to find un-armed victims.

State Parks are off-limits. Firearms must be unloaded. Criminals trespass charge if caught carrying.

The State Capitol is off-limits, but it is also covered under the public gathering law as well.

School property and school zones are quasi carry if you have a license, but only while picking up or dropping off a student or just passing through the zone.

Within the guard lines of jails or prisons is off limits to weapons as well. In some jails this area also includes the visitor parking area - a place where no inmate will ever be or have access too. A felony offense for just having it in your car if the parking area is within the guard line.

And lastly Stone Mountain Park, which is publicly funded, but privately owned and operated, has the power to create ordinances that prohibit the possession of firearms anywhere on park property, clearly in violation of the states pre-emption law. But otherwise law-abiding folk get carted off to the clink nonetheless for Stone Mountain's illegal law.

The things I would like see changed in GA is;

The places off-limits narrowed down to just "secured areas" of public buildings and transportation terminals. Keep the guard line law for jails and prisons, but the guard line has to be established to where inmates commonly are and will be and not in areas were there will not be any(parking lots).

Change the Georgia Firearms License to a Gerogia Concealed Weapon and Firearms License. Openly carrying of non-pistol type weapons is ok without a permit. It makes no sense that one has a license to carry openly or concealed a firearm, but prohibited from carrying a concealed knife, bludgeon, ect while licesned to carry a firearm as well.

And Lastly,

Take the issuance of firearms licenses away from probate judges and give it to another department of government that is more competent with the laws of the state and will adhere to "shall issue"

There, I am off the bitchbox for now :cuss: :banghead:

Georgia Packing dot ORG - Fighting the good fight! (http://www.georgiapacking.org)

RaetherEnt
August 23, 2006, 05:57 PM
I'd like to see Kansas have reciprocity with Utah...

That way I could avoid taking the Kansas class and carry on the Utah permit. We may still get it, as the State Attorney General has not yet listed the provisions of reciprocity with any state yet. Most people are assuming we will have reciprocity with Missouri, as residents of the Kansas City Metro in Kansas and Missouri share the state line.

FireBreather01
August 23, 2006, 06:39 PM
FB01--

You cite the great expansions of governement power over private parties in the last 40+ years as a good thing (apparently) and something we should just continue to build on.

Uh, where, exactly, do you see this trend leading?
I didn't say it was a good thing. You said previously that you had yet to hear of an example to the contrary regarding government enforcement/intrusion of the BOR, I was merely pointing out examples of where they had done so. There are SOME good elements of the government protecting certain rights, such as "shall not infringe", etc. OTOH, I don't smoke but I abhor the laws mandating no smoking, it's your place - you should choose if you want smoking or not.

As I said, I don't think it's proper for one right to necessarily trump another. In this case, I believe that private property open to the public should not preclude the 2nd amendment. How that expands the government's power is beyond me.

RealGun
August 23, 2006, 06:43 PM
and the First Amendment is not going to do you a damn bit of good, nor should it--and this same result will apply if your boss is Ma & Pa fruit stand or Wal-Mart. Size, "open to the public", "corporations", and all the other ad hoc crap people have pulled out in this thread doesn't matter.

The Second Amendment is no different, and I've yet to hear a single damn explantion to the contrary, just a lot of whining about what people "want" and why the government should make other people give it to them.

I wish I could understand the element of anger here. Is it anger that racial discrimination was made illegal, forever altering the concept of property rights? Personally, I wouldn't mind building on that, saying that you can't put out a sign that says '"no CCW license holders allowed unless disarmed and leaving your rights by the curb.". Gun ban signs mean nothing to anyone else. Criminals wouldn't care and would walk right in.

Firethorn
August 23, 2006, 07:00 PM
As far as ND goes, I'd get rid of the usual laundry list of no carry places, as well as a rewording of the recipicality law so that we unilaterally recognize other state's permits. Ours would actually be recognized in more states if we did.

kengrubb
August 24, 2006, 01:06 AM
So, owners cannot condition entry onto their private property as they wish?
So I take it you'd have no objections to a business posting a sign "No Blacks, No Jews, No Irish".

kengrubb
August 24, 2006, 01:24 AM
Another law that needs to be changed, and I can't believe this slipped my mind.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=43.06.220

RCW 43.06.220
State of emergency - Powers of governor pursuant to proclamation.

(1) The governor after proclaiming a state of emergency and prior to terminating such, may, in the area described by the proclamation issue an order prohibiting:
...
(e) The possession of firearms or any other deadly weapon by a person (other than a law enforcement officer) in a place other than that person's place of residence or business;

Ten states (LA, FL, AK, ID, KY, NH, MS, SC, OK and VA) have fixed their laws post-Katrina--at least insofar as preventing seizures if not permitting CCW during a disaster.

Squawker
August 24, 2006, 02:49 AM
!) Shorten the wait
2) Not have CCW permit applicants waiting in the same group as strippers, bartenders, dealers (Casino dealers,, not drugs) getting their sheriff's card
3) Not require qualification on every gun that's to be carried concealed (currently, NV lists each gun allowed on the CCW permit- If you buy another gun, you have to qualify, and submit the paperwork and wait for a new CCW permit to arrive before you carry it).
4) Lower the fee, currently $105

jws
August 24, 2006, 04:08 AM
4. I would remove any fee for the permit.

I don't so much mind a reasonable fee for permit processing. As long as that fee goes to the work done to issue the permit, as opposed to going into a state's General Fund or other bureaucratic money pit.

However, I feel that it would be much better if permits just weren't required at all.

coltrane679
August 24, 2006, 09:37 AM
So I take it you'd have no objections to a business posting a sign "No Blacks, No Jews, No Irish".

I'd have plenty objection to it--I certainly wouldn't patronize such a business, which wouldn't be around very long anyway, because it would fail.

I do have an objection to the government dictating who I have to allow on my property, do business with, rent to, etc. If people want to make dumb, offensive choices in such mattes, that is their choice--and they should suffer the consequence of doing so which, I would surely hope, is ostracism and failure in today's world.

The position I am exposing is excatly that put forward by Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan, among many others, in the mid-60s. The fact that people here cannot even comprehend it with assming racial animus (i.e. "playing the race card") only proves my point about the overwhelimng vicotry of the Left in defining the acceptable terms of debate in this country over the last 40 years--which is why you have a so-called "conservative" in the White House, and a Republican Congress, that have overseen the greatest growth in government power AND spending ever.

"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves."

Sistema1927
August 24, 2006, 09:51 AM
New Mexico:

1) Remove the recently enacted provision that you can only carry one concealed weapon at a time. (who thought that was a good idea?)

2) Remove the restrictions on carrying where alcohol is served or sold. Possibly institute some provision for having your permit revoked if found to have a BAC over a certain limit while carrying.

3) Lower the fees, extend the term of the permit.

4) Eliminate the mid-point re-qualification requirement.

As far as private property holders being allowed to restrict carry, if it is their property, that is their right. I can choose not to patronize them. I believe that if enough of us calmly explain to business owners that we cannot and will not spend our dollars at their establishments due to concerns for our safety will work wonders in getting signs to come down.

Sistema1927
August 24, 2006, 10:06 AM
The fact that people here cannot even comprehend it with assming racial animus (i.e. "playing the race card") only proves my point about the overwhelimng vicotry of the Left in defining the acceptable terms of debate in this country over the last 40 years

Give the man a cigar!

Everyone here should read White Guilt (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060578629/002-5013208-2612060?v=glance&n=283155) by Shelby Steele.

ApexinM3
August 24, 2006, 11:04 AM
...IMHO the second amendment means what it says.

I agree 100%. Why are their restrictions on the 2nd amendment? This is the only amendment with restrictions placed on it. Imagine what the leftist media would do if all of a sudden it was restricted?

As for my expectations: 100% shall-issue open or concealed carry everywhere except courts (for obvious reasons). In ALL states. I live in MD with a will-issue permit law, and a CCW lisence is virtually impossible to obtain. Yet the MD courts have stated that the police are under no obligation to protect the citzens of the state. Yet we aren't allowed to defend ourselves.

All this is yet another reason I hate MD & its politics. :fire: :cuss: :banghead:


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