First they came to Chip the Soldiers


PDA






Thin Black Line
August 24, 2006, 09:58 AM
I will refuse. No long explanation necessary. Period.


Company trying to get under soldiers’ skin

David Francis and Bill Myers, The Examiner

WASHINGTON - A microchip company with powerful political connections is lobbying the Pentagon for the right to implant chips under the skins of the nearly 1.4 million U.S. military personnel.

VeriChip Corp., which is based in Florida and planning to offer its stock to the public soon, has been one of the most aggressive marketers of radio frequency identification chips. Company officials have touted the chips as versatile, able to be used in a variety of situations such as helping track illegal immigrants or giving doctors immediate access to patient’s medical records.

Now the company is “in discussions” with the Pentagon, spokeswoman Nicole Philbin said. She added that VeriChip wants to insert the chips under the skin of the right arms of U.S. servicemen and servicewomen. The idea is to be able to scan an arm and obtain that person’s identity and medical history.

“The potential for this technology doesn’t just stop at the civilian level,” Philbin said.

VeriChip hopes that the chips will replace the metal dog tags that have been worn by U.S. military personnel since 1906.

The company has political muscle in the form of Tommy Thompson. A former secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, Thompson is a partner at the lobbying law firm of Akin Gump and is a director of VeriChip.

Thompson said he’s sure that the chip is safe and that no one — not even military personnel, who are required by law to follow orders — will be forced to accept an implant against his or her will. He has also promised to have a chip implanted in himself.

But reached for comment Friday, he wouldn’t say when he was going to have the implant.

“I’m extremely busy and I’m waiting until my hospitals and doctors are able to run some screens,” he said.

The technology is not foreign to the Pentagon. The Department of Defense spent $100 million on similar chips that track supplies and has also attached microchips to dog tags.

But the idea of implanting the chips in live bodies has some veterans’ groups and privacy advocates worried.

“It needs further study,” said Joe Davis, a retired Air Force major and a spokesman for the D.C. office of the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

Liz McIntyre, author of a book critical of the chips, said that VeriChip is “a huge threat” to public privacy.

“They’re circling like vultures for any opportunity to get into our flesh,” McIntyre said. “They’ll start with people who can’t say no, like the elderly, sex offenders, immigrants and the military. Then they’ll come knocking on our doors.”

The chip also is drawing attention from Congress.

“If that is what the Defense Department has in mind for our troops in Iraq, there are many questions that need answers,” Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., said in an e-mail to The Examiner.

“What checks and balances, safeguards and congressional oversight would there be?” Leahy wrote. “What less-invasive alternatives are there? What information would be entered on the chips, and could it endanger our soldiers or be intercepted by the enemy?”

The company is not so sure about the technology, either. According to company documents, radio frequencies in ambulances and helicopters could disrupt the chips’ transmissions.

In a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission, VeriChip also said it was unsure whether the chip would dislodge and move through a person’s body. It could also cause infections and “adverse tissue reactions,” the SEC filing states.

But Philbin downplayed the danger of the chips.

“It’s the size of a grain of rice,” she said. “It’s like getting a shot of penicillin.”



http://www.examiner.com/a-232630~Company_trying_to_get_under_soldiers__skin.html

If you enjoyed reading about "First they came to Chip the Soldiers" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
rangermonroe
August 24, 2006, 10:02 AM
I have wondered if this wouldn't be ok.

Perhaps, just while in "theater"?

I like the idea of swallowing a transmitter...preferably a 'single use'.... or one secreted about my gear.

Harry Tuttle
August 24, 2006, 10:10 AM
What if some uplifter decides that new handguns need to be RFIDed?

longeyes
August 24, 2006, 10:13 AM
More and more it looks as if the world of the future will be divided between the fascists and the anarchists. And they will fight to the death. We will all have to choose soon between "progress" and "regress."

Red State
August 24, 2006, 10:14 AM
I will refuse. No long explanation necessary. Period.

You won't be alone.

junyo
August 24, 2006, 10:24 AM
Verichip has a sketchy history, and a dubious grasp of privacy. I'd bet this is more of a press stunt to boost their IPO than a serious plan. They've also been trying to sell these things for implantation in your elderly parents and children so that you can keep an eye on them.

For soldiers it seems like a double edged sword; Yes it'd let you instantaneously monitor individual soldier's locations on the battlefield (no more of this kidnapping BS), but so could anyone else that hacked the system. Seems like a huge risk for negligible gain.

longeyes
August 24, 2006, 10:34 AM
We've evolved a world controlled by bean-counters. You'll pardon me if I choose not to be one of their "beans."

The control freaks, no matter what flag they're running, need to be stopped.

cyanide
August 24, 2006, 10:38 AM
I will refuse. No long explanation necessary. Period.
They will do it anyway

you will not have a choice, thats how it works.

longeyes
August 24, 2006, 10:44 AM
We won't have a choice?

Are you sure you want to say that?

We always have a choice. Always. Just pay the price.

birddog
August 24, 2006, 10:46 AM
We've evolved a world controlled by bean-counters. You'll pardon me if I choose not to be one of their "beans."


Excellent quote. Excellent.

progunner1957
August 24, 2006, 10:52 AM
At some point, I expect a federal law requiring all children and babies to be chipped - to save them from kidnapping, of course.
The control freaks, no matter what flag they're running, need to be stopped.
+10,000 Longeyes!

BryanP
August 24, 2006, 11:00 AM
At some point, I expect a federal law requiring all children and babies to be chipped - to save them from kidnapping, of course.

They won't have to. If they make it cheap enough lots of parents will do it as a preventative measure.

"I never have to worry about my little Joey going missing."

Sistema1927
August 24, 2006, 11:42 AM
Over my dead body. For me, or for any of my loved ones.

longeyes
August 24, 2006, 11:43 AM
The irony is that America's kids have already been kidnapped.

Sleeping Dog
August 24, 2006, 11:45 AM
They won't have to. If they make it cheap enough lots of parents will do it as a preventative measure.
"I never have to worry about my little Joey going missing."

How does it prevent anything?
Does it prevent the non-custodial parent from running off with the kid? Is it a sort of lo-jack device?
How close does law-enforcement need to be to read it? Can a chip in the house be read from the street? Can a chip in the car be read from a lamppost? Can it be read from space?
What's involved in removing a chip? A little cut with a sharp blade?
Can the chip be reprogrammed easily? Can it be counterfeited?

We always have a choice. Always. Just pay the price.
Easy to say. But for some family guy with 18 years in Army or Police, "take the chip or lose your job and pension" is not much of a choice.

Regards.

longeyes
August 24, 2006, 11:55 AM
Easier to say than do, that's true.

But it always come down to the same thing, doesn't it? The "price" can be mitigated by people banding together and saying NO in concert. In everything we face today the issue is the same: can we pull together to defend our rights against "them?"

roo_ster
August 24, 2006, 12:10 PM
I expect that my nepews are chipped.

My B-i-L is a bit...off. Won't allow wife or kids to go downtown, won't allow them to play outside of the 8' metal fence. Has stated that he would chip them once the technology is ready.

armoredman
August 24, 2006, 12:18 PM
Chipping children should be called child abuse.

cbsbyte
August 24, 2006, 12:21 PM
Actually, I don't mind if soliders are chipped as long as it, voluntary, and can be removed when the soliders returns to civilian life. Though I am completely against it being used in the civilian world. It could be used on prisoners, but with the same conditions as above for soliders.

Thinking about it actually might be a good idea for use on soliders, if the part of the body is missing where the chip was implanted how could they ID the body. At least with a metal tag it would more the likly survive the trama.

oldfart
August 24, 2006, 12:22 PM
"But it always come down to the same thing, doesn't it? The "price" can be mitigated by people banding together and saying NO in concert. In everything we face today the issue is the same: can we pull together to defend our rights against "them?""

Therein lies the reason for the 'divide and conquer' tactics the Left has been subjecting us to for all these years. Gradually, "we" have become a smaller group while the number of such groups has increased.
I know a local man, a gun owner and hunter, who has no problem with laws that restrict the ownership of semi-auto rifles of military design, the so called "assault rifles." so long as there are no similar restrictions on his Benelli shotgun.

:cuss:

steveracer
August 24, 2006, 12:24 PM
Which I refused. Not a big deal. They gave me one shot out of four, and I got rhabdomyolysis. Know what that is? It's a rapid and uncontrollable depletion of muscle tissue. Takes less than 24 hours to disable a man. I got treated, and when the next round of vaccines came around I said, no, thanks.
I got counseled, screamed at, threatened, and put on restriction. I still said no. End result? I'm still in the Navy, and haven't gotten Anthrax.

The Drew
August 24, 2006, 12:27 PM
I am much more concerned about the potential abuses of the cell phone tracking capabilities, those with the little GPS chips installed that broadcast your location.... At least they aren't planted under your skin... yet...

Thin Black Line
August 24, 2006, 12:30 PM
And they will fight to the death. We will all have to choose soon between "progress" and "regress."

I'm going to sit that one out even if it takes living with penguins or
polar bears......

For soldiers it seems like a double edged sword; Yes it'd let you instantaneously monitor individual soldier's locations on the battlefield (no more of this kidnapping BS),

"Sir, Pvt Ryan hasn't moved for a while."

"Send in a drone and tell me what you see."

"Ummm, Sir, I see a bloody arm and a scimitar laying on the ground, but
not the rest of Pvt Ryan."

"Dammit, not another one....we'll have to wait for another one of those
one-armed hostage videos before we contact the next of kin."

"Yes, sir. I'll send them an email as soon as it makes the Al Jazeera...."

"Who's next in line in the conex?"

you will not have a choice, thats how it works.

Like an animal stuck in a trap I could always chew off my right arm.
LOL, they'd just stick one in my left arm, issue me an M9, and lower
the score for qualification.

Anyone seen "Boxing Helena"? Here's a free idea for someone who wants
to develop it: How about a version of BH where Helena is Lady Liberty?

Thin Black Line
August 24, 2006, 12:51 PM
steveracer,

I got sent into theater with an active case of cellulitis that occured right at
the injection site (I won't say which vac). I knew it was a good one when
the dr got his buddies to check it out: "You guys need to see this one.
Don't touch it. See how it's moving down the muscles in his arm." LOL, the
dr tells me to take some pills, keep it clean, and be careful about putting any
pressure on it. "Doc, that's going to be hard to do when I'm living in a
portajohn and wearing IBA....." Try to imagine 2 lbs of ground chuck in a skin
bag and that's how my upper arm looked. Oh, well, get on the plane......
good news is the cellulitis didn't take my arm nor an IED. Hooah.....

On a positive note, we (at least my unit) were allowed to decline the anthrax
vaccine. If not, I could have seen how my other arm would have held up.
"Hey, look guys, they match now!" :D "Nice, Thin, now you're the knuckle
dragger we always knew you were." :neener:

steveracer
August 24, 2006, 01:05 PM
Thin, I hear you. I had a doctor flown into our AO to check my blood tests because she didn't believe I could have Rhabdo. She kept telling me it wasn't possible, and that I shouldn't have this illness. I said, "No S%&#! I shouldn't have ANY illness at this point. Gonna fix it?"
That was recieved poorly.

Kamicosmos
August 24, 2006, 01:51 PM
Isn't the military already taking DNA samples, keeping one back here, and the other is with the dogtags, a little vial like thing? I thought for sure my brother was telling me about that right before he was shipped to Iraq...i'll have to ask him about that again.

MD_Willington
August 24, 2006, 02:25 PM
Welcome to the Brave New World...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/MDWillington1976/Firearms/MDbarcode.jpg

:cuss:

Thin Black Line
August 24, 2006, 02:52 PM
steveraver, these are the kind of things that are a little funny when you
look back it. You wouldn't believe how much extra elbow room I had when
shaving after guys saw my arm oozing....."Holy S! *** happened to
your arm! That was from the shot we all just got yesterday?!" Then again,
seeing your own arm start to rot isn't that funny.

MD Will, no offense but the only bar code I wanna see is on Jessica Alba. :D

992
August 24, 2006, 02:52 PM
How long before the enemy has a scanner he can use to identify everyone on the battlefield and their position and their ''information'' just by scanning the area?
No,not for me or mine,not ever.!!!

992:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

Thin Black Line
August 24, 2006, 03:12 PM
992, in all seriousness, you need to write a letter on that one to your federal
rep and senator. After all, this is even worse than lacking IBA, plates, ammo,
commo, and having to dig scrap metal out of Kuwaiti landfills.

Like stories about glock plastic guns getting past metal detectors, all we
have to say is that any 12 year old with a laptop and a scanner could
completely incapacitate our forces.

mordechaianiliewicz
August 24, 2006, 03:29 PM
Things are coming to a head. In the past one could rebel when faced with evil.

If we are chipped, there will be no resistance. No where you can go that you can't be found.

It stops now, or we will be plunged into a 1,000 year dark age.

(Think I'm overreacting? If you do, you're wrong)

Dravur
August 24, 2006, 03:37 PM
see this as an incredible opportunity..... now, bear with me on this. I plan on coming up with the device that TAKES THEM OUT of your arm. Now, this may not be as painful as the Nose Device from Total Recall, but Ill bet I sell either a million of em or have people lined up waiting for me to yank out the chip for $100.

I look forward to making money from these chips.... Now, what to do with the old chips.... hmmmmmm, drop em in random coffee cups at Starbucks? Maybe take em to the zoo and feed em all to various animals?

Gotta think about this.

longeyes
August 24, 2006, 03:43 PM
For every tyranny there's an anti-tyranny. Screwing up the New World Order will be the growth industry--even if underground--of the future. Remember Minority Report?

Biker
August 24, 2006, 03:56 PM
Chips. Bah! I won't even carry a cell phone. I wonder if tinfoil wrapped around the chipped appendage would block the signal? I'm only partially joking.:)

Biker

Alex45ACP
August 24, 2006, 04:28 PM
They can already track you by your cell phone.

Biker
August 24, 2006, 04:34 PM
That's one reason I don't carry a cell phone.;)

Biker

Sindawe
August 24, 2006, 04:36 PM
[They can already track you by your cell phone.Which is one reason I refuse to carry one of those things unless it work related and the employer pays for it.

I also LIKE the fact that sometimes its just not possible to get ahold of me. Need to speak with me? Leave a message on my answering machine.

Robert Hairless
August 24, 2006, 04:41 PM
It's not such a bad idea but the application is backwards.

Instead of tagging our people, this company needs to get out in the field and start tagging the enemy. We need to know who and where they are. So our government ought to be encouraging the company to go out and start testing that approach as soon as possible. When they get it down right, they could start tagging people who are about to commit crimes.

I'd be very much interested in seeing the results. ;)

another okie
August 24, 2006, 04:44 PM
A few years back inner-city females were getting an implant that prevented pregnancy for several months. A fad developed in which the young ladies proved how much they loved their boyfriends by allowing the boyfriends to cut the implants out.

steveracer
August 24, 2006, 05:56 PM
...and, like the series 80 FPS parts, I threw it in the bay.
I will never own a cell phone. My LCPO told me I had to get one, and I told him he could put me on his plan, and pay the bill in his name, and hand me the phone, and I would leave it in my desk at work. I took the EDR out of my cars and truck, and all the "wireless" connections out of my computers.
Unless you were unusually motivated, you'd have a hard time tracking me and mine. I haven't even got a cordless phone.
Hell! My paintball team uses scrambled bone-resonence voiceducers. Nobody spies on us!
I am concerned more about getting the chip involuntarily through a vaccine or PPD test. I watch carefully, but I doubt I'd know if they did it during my "flu shot" every fall. (another one I have refused 8 out of nine times)
Like I said, they'd have to be unusually motivated.

308nato
August 24, 2006, 10:02 PM
How about a nice large magnet over the implant area

ccwolff
August 24, 2006, 10:20 PM
Neo-luddism any one?

You know, it is possible to use technology for good as well... its not all the work of the Devil.:rolleyes:

tellner
August 25, 2006, 10:53 AM
Sooner or later it will be mandatory. Maybe "to protect the children". Probably for Muslims (since close to half of so-to-speak Americans want special IDs or yellow crescents for them). Soon the benefits will be forced on the rest of us. At that point I might refuse. Or I might just take a trip to Wyoming with a tranquilizer gun. Some brown bear or coyote will take a short nap and end up with my identity.

carlrodd
August 25, 2006, 11:35 AM
Neo-luddism any one?

You know, it is possible to use technology for good as well... its not all the work of the Devil. -ccwolff

that's like saying there are reasonable and practical uses for zyklon-b when people are discussing the holocaust.

we're not talking about technology in general. everything about THIS specific technology, and the very specific way that our government is itching to use it, has to do with controlling people. if there is anyone that can't see that, he's lost in the corn.

even leahy, when he speaks up about this, just doesn't get it. it's not about cost, or effectiveness, or bad budgeting or any other partisan political argument.....it's about keeping this monster of a government on a short leash. no governmental body has any right to, or any business implanting microchips in anyone's body.

longeyes
August 25, 2006, 12:31 PM
I think the chip is a good idea.

But only for keeping tabs on the political class. For them it should be mandatory.

Art Eatman
August 25, 2006, 12:44 PM
This not-particularly-THR thread, a reprise of previous discussions here, is also running at APS. At APS it doesn't matter if you wander off the original topic of the thread--as has occurred here.

So, nighty-bye.

Art

If you enjoyed reading about "First they came to Chip the Soldiers" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!