Returning to C&R condition?


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eastwood44mag
August 24, 2006, 03:43 PM
Can a gun that has been made ineligible as C&R be returned to condition?

Example:

Mauser rifle in original condition has stock destroyed, is sold as barreled action (NOT eligible). Several hands later, A replacement stock is applied (WWII-era stock, let's say it has Nazi markings, just for argument's sake). Can the rifle be classified as C&R now that it has a military stock?

No, I don't have one. No, I'm not buying one. I'm just curious as to how that works.

Thanks.

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Technosavant
August 24, 2006, 05:34 PM
I think that once the status is voided, it remains so.

The ATF tends to work on the "once... always..." method. If the receiver was ever full-auto, it's always full-auto. If it was a SBR, then it is always one. It flips it over on the C&R status: if it was voided as a C&R, it is always so.

zoom6zoom
August 25, 2006, 01:00 AM
I'm gonna have to go the other way . If you build a '65 Mustang from original parts, it's a '65 Mustang. Many of the surplus guns being sold these days are similarly "put togethers" by the importers. It's pretty hard to tell where the parts came from once they're all bolted together again.

MikeH
August 25, 2006, 01:30 AM
A big part of C&R eligibilty depends on the "original military configuration" of the firearm. Loosely interpreted, I'd think that restoring the Mauser with the correct stock brings it back to its original military configuration.

Otherwise, if original configuration means every part has to be original, any repair or modification would make it non-C&R forever.

deadin
August 25, 2006, 02:20 AM
Actually, I seem to remember reading that the "original military configuration" only applies to military firearms for importation purposes, not C&R after they are already in-country.

Good question for your local BATFE office.

Dean

Hkmp5sd
August 25, 2006, 02:35 AM
Yes, once a firearm can reclaim its C&R status if returned to its original military configuration. ATF even allows firearms to retain their C&R status with non-permanent modifications as long as all original parts are maintained with the firearm and it can be fairly quickly restored to original. Note that once a firearm is 50 years old, it is C&R by age and doesn't have to be in military configuration.

Actually, I seem to remember reading that the "original military configuration" only applies to military firearms for importation purposes, not C&R after they are already in-country.


Not true. Taking the gun out of its military configuration can possibly make it illegal due to 922(r) violations.

deadin
August 25, 2006, 10:08 AM
Not true. Taking the gun out of its military configuration can possibly make it illegal due to 922(r) violations.

Hkmp5sd,

I try to stay up on the regs. Could you please post a link to the above so I can read it for myself?

Thank you,

Dean

Ed Ames
August 25, 2006, 11:27 AM
922(r) applies to semi-autos... the example given by the OP was a Mauser (almost certainly bolt action)... 922(r) violations aren't possible.

ATF Ruling 85-10 says that it must be in orgininal configuration to be C&R. That is generally taken to mean "as would have been issued at some point in history" not "as came from the factory"...if the miliary changed the configuration it is still C&R.

C&R status is obviously something which can be attained....after all, no gun starts out as a relic. Only an assembled firearm is considered C&R..but nothing says it must have stayed assembled its entire existence. Unless you can find a specific ruling that says otherwise (and I searched but did not find one) I'd say the common sense approach prevails. Common sense says that a collector is going to try to restore items in their collection to be representative of their era. If they discover that something is not representative (such as the sporter stock on their military rifle) they will try to correct it.

Problem comes when you are doing that correction not to have a good collection but to be able to transfer it under a different set of rules. That's asking to get bitten IMO.

Hkmp5sd
August 25, 2006, 07:20 PM
922(r) violations aren't possible.


In this case. The statement was made in such a manner to include all instances. It applies to semi-auto rifles and ALL shotguns.

Could you please post a link to the above so I can read it for myself?


http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/18usc_chap44.pdf

922(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes...

The most common violation is changes made to C&R SKS rifles. Certain changes drop its C&R status while making a gun that is illegal for importation in its new configuration. Changes to any imported semi-auto C&R or any imported C&R shotgun can bite you. If you want to make changes, send ATF a letter first.

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