Are anti-hunters anti-gun?


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Miss Demeanors
May 8, 2003, 09:27 PM
Several of us have been over at an anti-hunter forum trying to debate several issues with them. Obviously these people are completely anti-hunting, but when asked if they are anti-gun, they don't directly answer. A few have admitted they are anti-gun because "guns cause nothing but death and destruction" :rolleyes: .........well check it out for yourself :D

Link (http://pub6.ezboard.com/fthenonhuntersrightscoalition53805frm2.showMessage?topicID=349.topic)

Be sure to check out the other threads as well (if you have a strong stomache). However, if you do post, be sure to conduct yourself in a civil manner, the only people getting anywhere are the ones doing just that. I know there is a wealth of knowledge here so perhaps some of you can help them out. ;)

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El Tejon
May 8, 2003, 09:41 PM
Miss, what if we're pro-gun and pro-hunters having to pay their own way?:D

MikeK
May 8, 2003, 10:46 PM
I havn't checked out your link yet, but I have a cousin in TX who is very pro-gun, but extremely anti-hunting. She won't shop in the local electronics store that has animal heads on the wall, however she and her husband have a shotgun on one side of the bed and a .38 on the other.

Not vegetarians. I did try and point out that the steaks they eat don't come from cows that die of old age. Didn't get far with that discussion, so I dropped it.

natedog
May 8, 2003, 10:49 PM
My view on hunting follows: Animals have hunted humans throughout history. Now it's out turn.

Preacherman
May 9, 2003, 01:29 AM
Looks like a vegan version of Democratic Underground to me... :uhoh:

John G
May 9, 2003, 01:34 AM
If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did He make them out of meat?

Mr. Goodglock
May 9, 2003, 03:02 AM
No, anti hunter is different from anti gun.

My dad is animal lover. He discourage people from hunting yet he regards gun as self defence tool, interesting innovation and sporting equipment. He is NRA life member, tough me to shoot when I was 5 and has 22 guns (strong determination since here in Thailand people have to apply for license and wait up to 1 month for EACH gun purchase).:banghead:

PATH
May 9, 2003, 03:29 AM
Anti-hunting and anti-gun are not necessarily the same thing. I know many shooters who don't like hunting and one or two who are anti. Go figure. I feel to each his own as long as they don't usurp or abridge my rights!

Beav
May 9, 2003, 06:36 AM
Not for me, but then again I'm not really anti-hunting although I'm sure some would disagree. I'm just "anti-hunting for sport".

MicroBalrog
May 9, 2003, 07:17 AM
I wouldn't hunt, unless I needed it for food. Besides, if I ever get a gun, it will be of the "what do you hunt with THESE" type.:evil:

El Tejon
May 9, 2003, 08:35 AM
Goodglock, welcome to THR. Funny, I had Thai food last night.:D

anchored
May 9, 2003, 08:41 AM
No, I have an anti-hunting friend whom I'm trying to turn anti-gun, so he'll give me his collection.

themic
May 9, 2003, 12:20 PM
I'm very much pro-gun but I don't hunt. i'm not really anti-hunting, though, just not for me. and i have no problem with shooting a person in selfdefense. i eat meat. i understand that comes from animals. i just don't like to shoot them myself.

Tommy Gunn
May 9, 2003, 11:19 PM
Not vegetarians. I did try and point out that the steaks they eat don't come from cows that die of old age. Didn't get far with that discussion, so I dropped it.

Cognative dissonance.

MeekandMild
May 9, 2003, 11:49 PM
Miss, I'd suspect there is a big overlap but no hard and fast absolute. People can have a multitude of opinions and even change their opinion over time. For instance my opinion of squirrel hunting has changed a great deal over the last 3 decades so that I now consider tree rats to be partners in the war against feral cats instead of food. OTOH I have always considered deer to be the purest, lowest fat beef substitute available. (Then again I am one of those raving gunnies and maybe would feel differently if I were an anti.)


I'd suspect the site to be an agitprop site and not a real forum as it seems to quickly redirect and redefine posts so as to stay on the rather narrow target topic. Try posting a venison chili recipe or mention deer's lack of artificial hormones and antibiotics and see what happens. They'll scalp you. I'l bet you'll see each and every avid prohunter banned one after another. I noticed it was seldom hunters got in more than a few posts before they disappeared.

M2HMGHB
May 9, 2003, 11:51 PM
The only thing I hunt anymore is paper targets. I used to hunt when I was younger but it just lost its appeal to me. I encourage people to hunt it just wasnt my style. My father still hunts and he still hasnt gotten a deer affter over 20 years :evil:

Monkeyleg
May 10, 2003, 12:05 AM
Sweet and simple answer: no.

My wife loves spiders, ants, rodents, deer and just about anything that walks or crawls, with the exception of hunters. She hates seeing dead deer on truck hoods, hates the hunters, hates the sport and everything that's associated with it.

On the other hand, she knows that my having a gun protects her, that my practicing with a gun makes me a better protector and that, if something really bad is happening, it's me she's going to depend upon, not the local PD.

Having written all that, let me give you one caveat that may provide a glimpse into the mind of the anti-hunter: she refuses to say that she would kill to protect herself; for that, she depends upon me. And, if we were to be in a scenario where the system breaks down, she would not kill an animal for meat. She wouldn't object to me doing so, though (admittedly, I'd have to learn how first ;) ).

In my experience, it seems that you have to get a person to the point where they realize that their existence trumps that of animals. Subconciously, I'm sure they believe that, or they wouldn't buy shrink-wrapped animal parts at the local foodmart. The next step is convincing them that they should cut out the middleman and take the food from fur to table themselves, if need be.

mussi
May 10, 2003, 06:15 AM
So far, at least down here, I haven't seen an anti-hunter pro-gun person.

Hal
May 10, 2003, 08:00 AM
She hates seeing dead deer on truck hoods Dick,
Send her on down our way in NE Ohio and let her drive the roads of the Metro Park's around here,,,,,,make sure the auto insurance is paid up though :D

Sooner or later she'd end up with her own dead deer on the hood. It's really tough to avoid hitting them. The things have become outright pests on a lot of the roads around here.( Rats with antlers)(tasty ones though from what people tell me)

Why?

No hunting zones.

30-40 years ago, even seeing a deer was a once in a lifetime event. Then Ohio undertook a very aggressive reintroduction program. It was successful beyond their wildest hopes. Estimates put the deer population of Ohio @ ~ 10 times what it was when Columbus landed.

Biiiiig prooooooblem! They didn't reintroduce the predators along with the deer. (not that I mind,,,mind you) AND nobody told the deer they had to stay put in hunting areas.

Now hardly a day goes by that I don't have to swerve/hit the brakes/slow waaay down to avoid one (or more usually 2,3,4)of them. Some days, I have to avoid them 4, 5 ,6 times on the 15 mile drive home to/from work.,,,,,and THAT'S in the Spring/Summer when they just go about their business of destroying crops and being sedate. Come Fall, they get all goofy when the rut sets in. Come Winter, a bad one like this past one, and they start to move into residential areas to starve. Trust me, the sight of a starving deer stumbling around in the side yard,,,and knowing you're powerless to end it's suffering,,is a tad worse than a trophy in a truck bed.

Watching the docile family dog that "wouldn't hurt a flea", pack up, run down and rip up a doe or a fawn can put the damper on things pretty quick too.

Then there's the snowmobilers. Great fun to chase a deer,,,,,NOT! The things are half starved to begin with and can't afford the energy to run away. Most of these bozo's don't understand that. (Deer starve? Why don't they just go buy a Big Grass burger at McDeers?!?)

Fortunatly, I've been spared that so far. A couple of neighborhoods to the West of me haven't though. Running deer by snowmobile or packs of domestic dogs,,,then the half starved things wandering into the 'burbs to expire and rot happens quite a bit.

Sorry to rant here, but the anti hunters don't get this at all. Frankly, this would be a waste of time posting this on an anti hunting board. Maybe here, where someone can talk one on one with a spouse or something, and reason with them...My wife isn't too keen on hunting,,almost to the point of being an anti hunter. She still doesn't want ME to go back to hunting,,,but at least I've convinced her that SOMEONE has to.

There's only 2 real alternatives:
1.) Keep on hitting them with cars/trucks and letting them wander around croaking off in backyards.
2.) Reintroduce their natural predators. (yeah, like the soccer moms want to see lillte Sally Soccer get gobbled up by a big cat, or all eat up by a bear)

CTgunteacher
May 10, 2003, 09:41 AM
Embarrassingly, my own father is pro-gun but anti-hunting. I refer to him -- only half-jokingly -- as a "militant vegetarian." He eats no meat or fish, though he does consume dairy products. His reasoning for being a vegetarian has nothing to do with his own health, which I suppose I could understand. His catchphrase is "I won't eat anything that had a mother."

Now, my father was born in the backwoods of Arkansas, is devoutly pro-Second Amendment, an NRA member, ex-cop, Gulf War I veteran, currently serves on active duty with the Army Reserve (he just LOVES the concept of vegetarian MREs), and is a libertarian-leaning Republican. In other words, not exactly the archetypical bunny-hugger. Alas, I fear that it was I who steered him off the path of sanity.

When I was a kid, we ate the typical American diet: beef, pork, chicken, fish, turkey on Thanksgiving, etc. Dad ate the poor little beasts along with the rest of us, but was never a hunter. When I became a gun-struck teen with subscriptions to everything from Shooting Times to Combat Handguns (this was before the Internet, when the dread gunrags reigned supreme), I developed an interest in hunting. My good friend Shane was a hunter, and he invited me on a squirrel hunt with his family. Dad was appalled and angry that I'd even consider it, and forbade it. Told me if I mentioned it again, he'd seize my .22 rifle.

This led to many, many heated discussions over plates of meat at family dinners. As a 13-year-old know-it-all, of course, I was not hesitant to ruin Thanksgiving dinner by debating the merits of hunting with Dad. This went on for years, with dad making increasingly absurd statements:

Dad: Eating meat is okay, as long as you distance yourself from the killing. Killing is uncivilized. The further you are from the killing, the more civilized you become.

14 year-old me: But Dad, was Al Capone more "civilized" than his hit men who actually did the killing? Was Hitler more "civilized" than the Gestapo?

Dad: Well...ummm, ahhhh...yes.

Me: :eek:

Eventually, I backed him into a philosophical corner, though not exactly the one I wanted. Rather than accepting hunting as natural and good, he gave up eating meat and fish. Stopped wearing leather. Became really painful in restaurants -- God forbid the hibachi chef lets the spatula touch the shrimp before it touches the fried rice! Needs special gravy at Shoney's, etc.

I went off to Fort Benning at 18, then finally took up hunting when I was 20. It took me a while to become at all successful, since I'd had no mentoring as a kid. But eventually I went on that squirrel hunt.

Dad still hates hunting and even fishing, though he has never campaigned against it politically. We still argue about it good-naturedly. I make sure to wear my leather coats and order prime rib when I visit him. Maybe there's reason for hope, though. We went to the recent NRA convention together, and I noted some odd-looking shoes on his feet.

Me: Wow, dad, those are some really good looking pleather shoes.

Dad: Well, errrrr, they're not pleather.

Me: Huh?

Dad: Well, the pleather shoes just aren't very durable, and they make my feet stink. I, ummmm, broke down and bought some leather shoes.

Me: I see! Look, there's the new Benelli hunting rifle. Let's check it out. I'm feeling a bit uncivilized today.

I'll save him from the Dark Side of the Force yet. In the mean time, I'll just have to kill enough deer for both of us.

Mike

Mastrogiacomo
May 10, 2003, 10:10 AM
I'm very pro-gun and own a couple which I intend to keep adding to it as money becomes avaiable. However, I hate the thought of hunting. I don't like to see animal head on walls or pictures of animals killed for sport. Also hate bull fighting but that's another forum topic...

To me I just don't understand why you have to kill something for fun. Yes, I know some people eat their kill or do so to save a breed of animal when food is scarce but I still hate it. I especially don't like it when I ask why people kill an animal and they say "Because it's such a beautiful thing." This is why I have a camera -- so I can admire it's beauty without having to murder it for pleasure.:rolleyes: I think Jacklyn Smith is a stunning lady, who I'd like to look like at her age, but I don't need to kill her. I can buy a photo if I want...

Mastrogiacomo
May 10, 2003, 10:12 AM
Sorry for the poor spelling by the way. Between one cup of coffee and my LD, I always manage to screw something up...:uhoh: :D

Mastrogiacomo
May 10, 2003, 10:12 AM
Sorry for the poor spelling by the way. Between one cup of coffee and my LD, I always manage to screw something up...:uhoh: :D

MeekandMild
May 10, 2003, 10:15 AM
Miss, After thinking about it and reading others' posts (especially CTgunteacher's post) I don't think the hunter-antihunter decision is one of thought so much as emotion. There is an historical reference which might help you to understand some of the emotions of persons who are progun but antihunter. After I signed off last night I recalled having read it some months ago and it is a pretty deep discussion.

Look up EB Sledge's second book "China Marine" and turn to the second half, the part where he finally comes back to the US after serving garrison duty in postwar China. He discusses going hunting with his father and his personal emotions which made him stop hunting. For him it was valid, just as for his father it was valid to continue hunting. He compares the two of them, their experiances and their emotions in some detail.

(If one wants to understand his philosophy this is the better of his two books. In fact, I don't recomend a woman ever read "With the Old Breed", although it is one of the classics of military history.)

Mastrogiacomo
May 10, 2003, 11:46 AM
Well, I'll be the first to admit that my personal dislike of hunting has more to do with emotion. Again, there are times I know hunting serves a purpose -- as with the overpopulation of Deer that threaten their natural food supply and need to be reduced. I'm sure those that hunt do so for a variety of reasons but it's not my cup of tea, especially when the agruement for the killing is simply because it's a beautiful animal.

By the way, is it just me or is THR having problems? I find some of my posts appear twice, sometimes can't get in to view the page, slow running...overload?:uhoh:

MeekandMild
May 10, 2003, 11:59 AM
By the way, is it just me or is THR having problems?

Its not you. There have been big storms across the midwest and in some areas 90% of the phone lines are down and the cities look like they've been nuked. If I'm not mistaken THR has servers in Tennessee and there are significant parts of that state which have been reduced to rubble recently. The phone company can't even get into some areas.

aikidoka-mks
May 10, 2003, 06:52 PM
I'm not against hunting, but I'm not really interested in it either. If someone wants to hunt dear or whatever, fine with me. But I do believe in the right to keep and bear arms.

Mark

Miss Demeanors
May 11, 2003, 02:27 PM
Thanks for all the replies and views! :) I assumed most people who are pro-gun are not anti-hunting. I have never gone hunting but am defintely not against it. The people on that forum that I had posted, seem to be very emotional. Of course some have some valid points such as trespassing, but some would rather see hunting banned all together. To each his/her own but trying to get a sport banned simply because you are against it, is just as bad as supporting gun control, IMHO.

Again, thanks for the replies and Happy Mommies Day :)

aikidoka-mks
May 11, 2003, 03:45 PM
Emotional people are difficult to deal with. On a blog site that has a forum the issue of guns was brought up and one poster said she was raised around guns but that guns are now out of control and it turns out her view is based on a friend getting killed and some other violent incidents so now she is against guns period. I havent bothered to reply yet because the emotions are so strong. Thing is, years ago I had a friend who was killed while babysitting and one of the teenagers found the father's shotgun and you can imagine the rest. I still support the right to keep and bear arms though.

Happy mommies day to you as well Miss Demeanors :)

Mark

jdkelly
May 11, 2003, 03:53 PM
"Are anti-hunters anti-gun?"

No, of course not! Are most (if not almost all) anti-hunters anti-gun, yes most likely.

"Obviously these people are completely anti-hunting, but when asked if they are anti-gun, they don't directly answer."

Is someone, who is evasive about their political view on a related subject, being totally honest with you? No, not likely.

Can you assume that they don't want to lose your political support, and know they will if they are honest? Yes, I think so.

Remember, that some support the "...it depends what your definition of is, is." doctrine, as a form of honesty. Others believe it to be a form of lying. What do you think it is?

jkelly

benEzra
May 11, 2003, 05:06 PM
I'm currently a non-hunter who philosophically supports hunting, and hope to get opportunity to participate someday (all my friends who hunt are in eastern North Carolina). The only hunting I've ever done is bullfrog hunting with a .22.

<rant>
What REALLY burns me is the people who support hunting but NOT RKBA (i.e, believe that you should only be able to own hunting weapons). Where does that leave the average non-hunting gun enthusiast? (And do hunters really think that if they throw gun enthusiasts to the wolves, that the radical Democrats will continue to allow sport hunting? The sad state of England should be a wake-up call to those types.)
</rant>

bE

Mr. Goodglock
May 11, 2003, 10:31 PM
Well, my attitude toward hunting has changed a bit in the receent years. I love to eat meat and appreciate fine leather product so after considering lifestyle of farm animal especially poltry I now feel that hunting for food is not that bad after all. At least the animals had better lives before being midium rare. Hunt for the sake of killing is different anyway.

Regard. :p

PS Where on the page is the quote click, please?

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