[zamboxl]

Hey guys can someone suggest a good self defence blade, that's under 4 inches long. I need it for work, i currently work security at my University and we are not allowed to carry fire arms but are permitted blades. Not much ever hapens around here (until something hapens that is). But i work in a large area, 5 inter connected buildings and i feel that if someone ever does break in and gets the drop on me it will be atleast a few hours until i am found, asuming i am knocked out and unable to radio for help, so in other words i could use a blade just in case, suggestions pls.

edit: Requirements are under 4 inches, no switch blade (prefer fixed blade), and something that a college student can afford, in other words a $300 or $400 blade is deff out of the question preff under $200 if at all possible.

[hso]

You're actually better off with a baton/asp and no training than a blade and no training. You're much better off with a baton and a little training than a knife and a little training.

[Skofnung]

Sage advice above. An impact weapon of some kind will serve you better than a knife in both the fight, and in the aftermath.

That said, I carried a Spyderco Endura all through my college days. Heck, I still carry it. It is more tool than weapon though.

[usmccpl]

I have to agree with them. Baton is better than a blade.I use a blade now but between the marines and martial arts courses Ive taken I know how to use it right.Also find some good mace or pepper spray. No training at all needed to use it.





one shot one kill

[stdlrf11]

When I worked for my college PD as a student assistant, we all carried 3D cell maglights. They are one hell of a baton. I also carried a Kershaw Vapor knife for basic cutting tasks and an el-cheapo leatherman tool for when I found loose screws and bolts.

Hope this helps,
stdlrf11

[JShirley]

As the posters above have said:

a large flashlight is useful and legal. I've worked security in bad parts of Dayton, downtown Atlanta, in isolated spots in SC and GA. A long flashlight has reach, and if you had the choice, a long blunt object is much preferable to a short sharp one for defense.

John, currently working security with an M4...:rolleyes:

[hso]

John, currently working security with an M4...

Yeah, but the other guy's got RPGs.

[JShirley]

IEDs are more common, at least in practice. :(

[Coronach]

You work security? Perfect. Get a large Mag-light and don't worry about the knife. Seriously. I have seen what a motivated individual swinging a big metal flashlight can do to another human being. If I had a choice between being armed with a small knife or a 3 D-cell metal flashlight, I'd reach for the flashlight, every time. Plus, it is perfectly useful in other ways, and is as close to innocuous as you can get, in a hoplophobe-rich environment.

You hold it in the interview stance in your strong hand (since you have no gun), fingers wrapped around the body just behind the bell for the lens. the body of the flashlight extends back over your shoulder. This is the perfect position to blind someone with the light, and you can bring it down overhead in a nasty chop, or you can swing it sideways (twist your hips) in a slice parallel to the ground.

It makes a very eerie hollow *CONK* when it connects solidly with someone's head. :uhoh: That someone usually stops whatever it was they were doing, pretty quickly.

Mike

PS Of course, you weren't trying to hit them in the head. You were just caught off guard when they rushed you, and their head got in the way of your flashlight. It happens.

PPS Seriously, the suprascapular strike point is a place for which cops aim when they do strikes, and twisting/turning/fighting suspects sometimes get bonked on the melon unintentionally. I saw that happen just last week, actually.

[zamboxl]

maze is not allowed, and we are already issue a small flashlight, but i'll see what i can do to get a larger one, and a carrying case for it, where could a find a good one for a decent price?

[The Deer Hunter]

Brass knuckles arent allowed either.

then again you can kill someone with knucks with one blow to the head...

[carpettbaggerr]

Hit 'em in the head with a MagLite, and there's a good chance they'll die -- just like Malice Green.

If you're swinging the Mag in self-defence, oh well. Just don't swing at the head if you'd be unhappy if your target croaks. Or winds up drooling for the rest of their life. :uhoh:

I prefer C cell Maglites. The thinner barrel fits my hand better. But Mag Instruments eliminated the 5 and 6 C cell versions last year. You may be able to find them still on shelves in some stores.

Cheapest prices I've found are here (clicky). (http://store.irawoodinc.com/mafl.html) Haven't placed an order, though, so I can't vouch for the store.........

[Devonai]

I am in complete agreement with the other members. I'll third the notion that you should carry a knife in addition to the Maglite. You might as well if it's authorized.

If one or two guys get you on the ground and you fear for your life, you may have to choose between using your knife or getting pounded into unconsciousness.

Just like a firearm, a knife is a weapon of last resort. Expect the biggest legal headache of your life if you ever have to use it.

[freedom and guns]

Zam Wessel my friend, you should know better. Get a shotgun. ooh sorry for blowing your cover but c'mon you can't hide out from the jedi forever. They probably figured out you survived that dart long ago. Your a living lesson, poison darts don't always work.

[freedom and guns]

Sorry Zamboxl. I had to make fun of your name to keep my streak going.

[freedom and guns]

Get a shotgun. sorry about that and the sentence before it, I didn't know you needed it for work, get a 3 D cell maglite. Clubs are very good (and effective)weapons. Especially if they don't look like weapons. Oh and since you are a security guard, see if you are allowed to carry a straight baton.

[usmccpl]

When I worked as a security guard I carried a 3d Maglite and a 2aa maglite all the time.Both easliy double as impact weapons. Ask the drunks that gave me problems and the racoon that i upset in the middle of his dinner,let fly with th 3d and the coon went airborn for about 20 feet.




one shot one kill

[Ohen Cepel]

IF you decide on a knife the Kabar TDI should work well. Last resort. However, requires little training and isn't so large as to be a legal issue. I would look into an aftermarket sheath though.

[JTW Jr.]

under $200 .. one of the Simonich midtechs would fill the bill nicely.

[zamboxl]

thanks guys yea looks like i will be getting a maglite, but i still want to loo into a 4 inch blade that could conceal easily for when the ***** really hits the fan.

[Boom-stick]

Get blade training before deciding if a blades for you.
My blade is now 'last ditch' only.


3D maglights are good for clumping folk but if you wanna light things up get a surefire E2D aswell.

Brass Knuc's may be illegal but rock climbing 'binas aren't;)

[hso]

but i still want to loo into a 4 inch blade that could conceal easily for when the ***** really hits the fan.

I'm afraid you still may not be hearing us. The club is a superior weapon to the short knife. It's not a more PC substitute, it's better for your work. A knife would only be of more value if you were down and had someone on you. You'd employ it to get someone off of you.

Get a good stick/club/baton/flashlight. Go for a one day ASP/Baton/Stick course. Practice every day. You'll be much better armed.

To learn to use a knife you've got to dedicate much more time and effort.

If you're allowed to carry one then get a Kasper Companion from CRKT.

[Coronach]

I'm afraid you still may not be hearing us. The club is a superior weapon to the short knife. It's not a more PC substitute, it's better for your work.Read that again, until it sinks in. Everyone thinks a knife is better for self defense. Unless you are really well trained, it is not. You're far better off going with either a baton (if legal) or a Mag-light. It is a far more effective weapon, training levels being equal. The fact that it is more PC is a mere bonus.

Mike

[JShirley]

Yup.

I wrote an article for CCL a couple of years ago on this. Knives, especially small knives that carry well, just aren't as effective for defense as many other defensive tools, even improvised ones.

OTOH, at very close range, a large knife is the deadliest tool in existence. You don't want to be in that range, and you're really not trying for "deadly", just effective.

John

[Devonai]

My thoughts revolve around the increasing popularity of Brazilian Ju-Jitsu, which really opened my eyes to my need to be able to handle myself on the ground.

I think BJJ is ridiculous to teach to Infantry soldiers, except that so many of us are pulling MP duty these days. I'm not saying you may never need it, but on the battlefield it seems unlikely.

In the civilian world, if I'm fighting on the ground with somebody it means that I'm fighting for my life.

Scenario: I'm in a fight. I did everything I could to avoid this fight, and with an existing leg injury I can't run very well, so it also means that I tried to walk away and got attacked anyway. My opponent doesn't appear to be armed so I didn't draw my weapon, but the guy is better than me and I've been knocked to the ground. In my mind, the use of deadly force becomes justified, because my opponent will probably realize I'm carrying a pistol and try to take it from me. I can't draw my pistol because my opponent has mounted me, so I draw my Benchmade folder and go for an artery. Even if I think I can withstand his assault I don't have time to dick around because he may have friends coming.

I agree wholeheartedly that a folder is a poor first choice for most situations. This is simply an illustration that it does have it's place in my standard loadout.

[zamboxl]

aight you guys convinced me i'll go for the mag lite, however i am seriously contemplating martial arts training, with weapons training. When i was a kid i used to practice martial arts and was begining to get into weapons training. This was many years ago but i remember liking it, and with the field of work i want to get into it could only help (law enforcement), for now i do believe you are all correct maglite, then when i become proficient, i'll get the blade, but by then i will probably be a leo already. ( couple of years down the line.) Thanks for the great advice guys apreciated.

[Geronimo45]

+1 on the large knife bit. Take a look at the Fairbairn-Sykes knife. It was made - not for opening cans or using as a crowbar or cutting trees, but pure and simple to deal destruction on your fellow homo sapiens. About a seven inch blade and five inch hilt - about the standard for any fighting knife that is going to see anti-personnel service. If you can carry a full-sized knife, get one with a blade around six or seven inches. A baton or cane - I like the idea of a cane better, as it won't collapse and it doesn't cost much - gives you a tool than can cause pain without causing death, safely. Don't know if the batons can be used like a spear, but a good cane can be.
Better yet, get a cane with a bayonet mount.
Never seen anybody with a bolus yet... that might be a good ranged weapon (darts that you toss into a dartboard would work, too). I doubt you'd be needing either, though.

[Boom-stick]

On a side note, whilst lacking the correct training in the use of either a blade or a baton the likely hood of it being taken from you and used against you is very high. Untrained people tend to focus everything through the weapon at hand and when it is removed they have very little to offer in the way of protection so you really have to work out once you've been dis-armed what would prefer to have used on you a blade? or a baton/club/mag-light?

I remember being a small child when my grandfather was asked the same question by an ex-commando buddy of his, once he'd thought about it he returned the Nazi dagger (war trophy) to the cupboard and excepted the the gift of a police issue baton from his friend:)

( My Grandfather passed away nearly 10 years ago and I'm still trying to get my Grandmother to hand over the dagger!!!)

[hso]

On a side note, whilst lacking the correct training in the use of either a blade or a baton the likely hood of it being taken from you and used against you is very high.

I do hope you're referring to a baton and not a knife. It's very very difficult to take a live blade away from someone since grabbing the wrong bit can leave bits of you no longer connected to the larger bit.

[Boom-stick]

I do hope you're referring to a baton and not a knife. It's very very difficult to take a live blade away from someone since grabbing the wrong bit can leave bits of you no longer connected to the larger bit.

I was talking about both really.
If you don't know how to use a blade or retain one, having it removed from your person by someone that does know what they are doing is going to come as surprise.

And I believe this to be true because, the first thing most people do with NO blade knowledge is start flashing it around, where as with someone that has some knowledge, the last thing you are going to know about is the blade!!

It was only a minor observation and not set in stone.

[Mtnvalley]

It's a small point, perhaps, but in some states one must actually have had some training before being allowed to carry an ASP/Monadnock/other collapsible.

In my state, you have to complete a one-day course (usually < $100), and have a card with you at all time that you're carrying, stating that you have taken the course.

The card isn't a boilerplate one, and each instructor writes their own. Fortunately for me, mine included the cites of state statutes allowing one to carry a baton. Since it's not a common weapon amongst civvies, at least some cops aren't clear on the legality of carrying one...and those cites made things easier on both a LEO and me on one particular occasion.

If training isn't a prerequisite in your state and isn't readily available...buy Jim Grover's baton DVD. Much of my "required" course consisted of us watching that excellent video. It ain't a cheap one (I paid $89), but I had to buy a copy. Golden stuff.

[hso]

Mtnvalley,

Correct, my wife and I and several friends also carry ASP cert cards with us.

I don't think TN dictates how long the class must be, but to propely learn the physical skills with a collapsable baton should take a good part of a day.

[JShirley]

And I believe this to be true because, the first thing most people do with NO blade knowledge is start flashing it around, where as with someone that has some knowledge, the last thing you are going to know about is the blade!!

Yes. If you have to use a blade, the adversary should not know you have it- well, perhaps ever.

Gun same-same. Facing a deadly threat, present and address the target until it's no longer threatening.

[B.D. Turner]

My favorite non firearm weapon is a 6C cell maglight. I have one that I carried for years as a LEO. Second choice would be a can of bear guard OC spray. Third but an always there weapon would be a folding knife.

[Matt_W]

You work security? Perfect. Get a large Mag-light and don't worry about the knife. Seriously. I have seen what a motivated individual swinging a big metal flashlight can do to another human being. If I had a choice between being armed with a small knife or a 3 D-cell metal flashlight, I'd reach for the flashlight, every time. Plus, it is perfectly useful in other ways, and is as close to innocuous as you can get, in a hoplophobe-rich environment.

You hold it in the interview stance in your strong hand (since you have no gun), fingers wrapped around the body just behind the bell for the lens. the body of the flashlight extends back over your shoulder. This is the perfect position to blind someone with the light, and you can bring it down overhead in a nasty chop, or you can swing it sideways (twist your hips) in a slice parallel to the ground.

It makes a very eerie hollow *CONK* when it connects solidly with someone's head. That someone usually stops whatever it was they were doing, pretty quickly.

Mike

PS Of course, you weren't trying to hit them in the head. You were just caught off guard when they rushed you, and their head got in the way of your flashlight. It happens.

PPS Seriously, the suprascapular strike point is a place for which cops aim when they do strikes, and twisting/turning/fighting suspects sometimes get bonked on the melon unintentionally. I saw that happen just last week, actually.
__________________

Maglites must be effective because some UK police forces restrict the size of Maglite their Constables can carry whilst on duty.

[Boom-stick]

Matt,

I wouldn't be surprised if the restriction was due to said 'forces' not wanting to pay for the extra batteries:D

[Fosbery]

Lmao, ASP batons, ok, CS gas, ok, torches, not ok.

[hso]

An "accidental" shoulder point strike that hits the collar bone can yield dramatic results.

They've banned large flashlight like Mag and Brinkmann's for LEOs in my area because they were used in such a way that interrogations of suspects that got "CONK"ed on the head with them yielded such poor information. Sometimes for weeks and months.

[C. Rabbit]

Here's a site with pictures from an old (pre 1900s) manual on cane fighting:
http://ejmas.com/jnc/jncart_barton-wright_0400.htm

Surprisingly thourough, and shows how to do throws, when to throw knees, unarmed and armed opponents, etc. Good reading, I'd think, for anyone who has a cane.

CR

[CWL]

To answer your question, I would suggest a knife that doesn't look too "tactical" and which would serve a primary purpose other than self-defense (open boxes, cut twine, etc.). If you ever need a knife, it will be there.

I would reccomend either a Benchmade (Osborne) axis-lock knife, a Spyderco knife (perhaps in non-threatening yellow) or a simple CRKT knife like the M16. All are highly dependable knives and cost from $150-$100-$50.

Choose the blade shape which you most prefer, I would recommend a clip or spearpoint over other aggressive shapes unless you really get into a defined martial art style.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Get the light AND a knife---even if you never use it for last ditch--you always need a good knife around---The Spyderco Endura and Delica are excellent and won't break the bank.

Sierra Trading Post currently has an great deal on fully serrated Endura's.

4D cell Maglights are pretty cheap at Wally's---and I would spend the extra $20 or so and get the LED upgrade bulb---much brighter---and the batteries last longer.

[22-rimfire]

Take a look at the Moran model knife that Spyderco makes. It is a 4" fixed blade. I am thinking about buying one for myself. Not sure about the sheath, but it looks like it will work horizontal on the belt. I like the Dozier canoe and whittler (fixed blade) also, but it is a custom knife and prieced in the $200-$250 area. But the horizontal sheath is just what the doctor ordered for quick access.

[owlhoot]

A knife is a leathal weapon. Carrying a fixed blade knife is most situations and in most places is illegal. And I know of no permit system in any state that provides for the carrying of such a knife. Folding knives are generally permitted if blade length and type conform to state law. (for example some states/locales prohibit a folding knife with a dagger type blade even if one side has a false edge.)

A knife carried as a defensive weapon makes no sense when concealed carry permits for handguns are readily available in most states. There is something to the old cliché about bringing a knife to a gun fight.

I would not deny that a knife is certainly a formidible weapon for certain circumstances, and in the hands of a person who really knows how to use it, is at small disadvantage even against a gun. But it takes a lot of dedication to attain that level of proficiency. Moreover, if you are ever in a knife fight, even if you are skilled, chances are you will be cut up even if you win the altercation. So, I repeat, why carry a knife when guns are so readily available?

A cane is a better weapon. A small number of easily mastered moves will settle most arguments, and it is legal even on airplanes.

[KnifeLawGuy]

Owlhoot wrote:
And I know of no permit system in any state that provides for the carrying of such a knife.

Actually, certain states, for example, Arizona and Florida, offer true concealed weapons permits, allowing the holder to carry weapons other than firearms, such as fixed bladed knives.

Stay sharp, and stay safe,
david.

[wizard of oz]

4D cell maglite for me or a solid radio. The advantage is that you can carry it in your hand, wheras a baton (or firearm) is on the belt. Spyderco Delica is an excellent cheap knife. Carry it clipped in the top of your sock just in case.

[JShirley]

The very idea of a "knife fight"- in the sense of two knife-wielders facing each other- is just damn ridiculous.

If you're facing a knife, and can't run, you use a weapon that gives you distance.

If you're forced to employ a knife, it should be at close range, and the threat shouldn't know you have it.

There is no "knife fight", only knifing.

John

[hso]

Carrying a fixed blade knife is most situations and in most places is illegal. And I know of no permit system in any state that provides for the carrying of such a knife.

Sorry, but that information is incorrect. Most states allow fixed blades with blades under 3.5 inches to be carried since they are not classified as weapons, some have no restrictions at all and some states allow knives that are classified as weapons to be carried by people that have carry permits because, as David pointed out, they allow any weapon, not just a handgun, to be carried. You should check with the rules for individual states at their state law sites, but good summaries of what knives can and can't be carried and under what circumstances can be found at - http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/sta-law.htm

[1911 guy]

As others have stated, impact weapons such as a baton or Mag-Lite are better than a knife. Having said that, here's what I carry.

TDI LE made by Ka-Bar. The 3" model. TDI offers a class that includes the knife with tuition. They're in southern Ohio, if that's of any help to you. Highly recommended.

[Sgt Stevo]

A malinois is better, I have no permit except the stupid at work security one. So I carry a six inch ti-light from cold steel. Amd keep one of our dogs close. If the ti is too big. I carry a benchmade 710 four inch. valkman is making me a four straight blade that will replace both. I also keep a taser in my expedition.

Still, a man with a gun wins. I hate california....:fire:

[zamboxl]

wow fl allows all weapons with their permit? o man i love my state, o and i already got a maglite. Thanks for tha advise guys.