Scared by a Lab puppy - how did it get this way?


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Brass Fetcher
August 28, 2006, 06:23 PM
I was just out jogging with my 1 year old black lab -basically still a puppy in his head and he's not full grown. He likes people. Coming around a corner on a wooded trail comes three other joggers. The first two pass with no problem - I said 'Hi' and 'he's friendly'. The third one in the line STOPS and looks like she is trying to scream but cannot muster the noise. It is getting harder and harder to walk any dog without people avoiding us like the plague. I understand that people did not used to be this way (scared of everything).

Do we share the same opinion? When did things change? I hope everone on THR can walk their dogs without the garbage that we go through.

Thank you,

JE223

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Gordon Fink
August 28, 2006, 06:31 PM
The other jogger had probably been bitten by a dog in the past. Itís not an uncommon occurence.

~G. Fink

Larryect
August 28, 2006, 06:35 PM
My wife would have had a similar reaction for a period of time. She is getting better but, she was bitten in the face by a dog she had interacted with before. For awhile she couldn't even deal with our own dogs. It is considered Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.


.

joab
August 28, 2006, 06:42 PM
The media has played up the mytht that all dog attacks are Pits to the point that the public is beginning to see Pits around every corner.

Think about it
Heavy Bodied + Big Head= Pit Bull

Beren
August 28, 2006, 07:14 PM
Are you sure it was the puppy she was so scared by? :D

ArmedBear
August 28, 2006, 07:24 PM
I hope everone on THR can walk their dogs without the garbage that we go through.


Generally, yes. Most people are even intelligent enough to recognize that our dog is really friendly, due to the grinning face, wiggling body and wagging tail that she exhibits whenever she sees people. It can really slow down a walk or jog to have a dog that's so overly friendly, but it's worth it because she's just the best thing we ever brought home!

She's a pit bull. And again, most people see her behavior, and forget about the stereotypes. She's "converted" a few people, who now see the whole breed in a different light than what's been fed them by the same media that demonizes us and blames our guns for crime.

However, a few people where we walk DO jump back from every dog they see, whether it's a huge mastiff, a stern-eyed husky, or a bouncing chihuahua. Their loss. I figure, "Just keep your laws off my life and off my dog's life, and you can go on with your little self-indulgent phobias all you want."

Duke of Lawnchair
August 28, 2006, 07:28 PM
JE223,

I am both empathetic and sympathetic to your situation.

Not to sound PC, but for some strange reason, a lot of people are fearful of black dogs. When we got Oliver (at the time he was an 8 week old black lab pup), people would shy away from him when we went out for walks and hikes. On the other hand, when we got Dani (at the time a 6 week old yellow lab pup) people were actually coming up to us and no one ever seemed to be scared of her. Both are great natured dogs.

Go figure...

-Jim

cassandrasdaddy
August 28, 2006, 07:28 PM
was pup leashed?

ArmedBear
August 28, 2006, 07:37 PM
Not to sound PC, but for some strange reason, a lot of people are fearful of black dogs.

Bigots!:p

That just shows their ignorance about dogs.

Brass Fetcher
August 28, 2006, 08:17 PM
Beren, :D . Good point - I hope it was the dog! My apologies to those posters mentioning the PTSD assciated with dog bites. I was in the dark on that one and am sorry if the post struck a nerve.

Yeah, he was leashed... It's just better that way where we jog - he's still a knucklehead and might run off if the wind was right and the park is posted as having a leash rule.

I've heard a few people say that there is a difference between fear and panic. Fear (in an emergency) is natural, panic is oftentimes fatal. Panic at the sight of all dogs, minding their own business, is inconcievable to me - but I've seen those people too.

This did not happen when I walked a black lab (same size, different dog) 10 years ago, in the same neighborhood. There was this one sissy who carried a cane as a weapon and tried to beat my dog once, which just made a nice dog into a not-nice one. (When my dog responded, the man with the cane lost all of the will that he thought he had and basically curled up in front of my dog - weird scene). Other than that, no problems at all. Most people petted the dog.

I'm thinking back about some of the toys I had when I was a kid. Cool toys that fired potentially deadly projectiles and looked like guns, electrical toys that could cut/bruise you if not handled right. Looking at Wal-Mart today, I see nothing but brightly colored plastic with well-rounded edges, etc.

Basically, I feel that our wealth as a nation, and the comfort that wealth brings has moved the vast majority of us into a state of ignorance with respect to the 'real' world. Where some animals are nice and some are not nice - up to the person to decide for themselves, which is which.

cassandrasdaddy
August 28, 2006, 08:22 PM
is scared of dogs.he cared formy dobie/lab mix for a year and that dog loved dad.she was treated for heart worm while there.he fed her spaghetti O's.and he still cringed when she came up to him. new york city boy second generation dog hater

Cesiumsponge
August 28, 2006, 08:24 PM
I understand that people did not used to be this way (scared of everything).'

Thank the news for hammering in that XYZ is "a danger that could be lurking in your neighborhood" and "it could happen to you". Its a miracle to get even five good minutes of news out of a 30 minute segment.

*newscaster voice*

Ordinary household dirt... found in any ordinary front yard. There could something invisible to the eye lurking there, and it can be deadly to your child and pregnent women. You might not even be aware of it! Coming up next on our top investivative report series. But now, a new study on baby smiles and improved health!

ArmedBear
August 28, 2006, 08:27 PM
new york city boy second generation dog hater

Boston T. Party's comments about urban environments and mass neuroses is spot on.:D

longeyes
August 28, 2006, 08:40 PM
Is that the puppy with eyes as big as saucers?

Marshall
August 28, 2006, 08:43 PM
It's all in size, appearance and the other folks ignorance.

I've had Labs all my life and have run into the same thing you have, countless times. Is it because their Black? No. I've had it happen with my Yellows and Chocolates. People see "big dog" and go into conniption fits. "Big dog" is anything larger than a Beagle. Well almost, I also have a Bassett Hound that people flock to pet. If I had known I would get this much attention I would have got one when in my teens but now, I'm thinking, please, just leave her alone and let her take a sh*t. :p

Most "dog people" will never have a problem with a Lab, they know better. Although, I did have one Lab that would bite your azz if you got near me, "her truck" or the backyard. However, If I was there, she would be fine. That's rare though. Most Labs are all bark and and all lick.

If someone has been attacked by any dog, they have my complete understanding and empathy for their uneasy feel around dogs of any size and breed.

cassandrasdaddy
August 28, 2006, 08:49 PM
i'm not like dad,have had up to 14 dogs at a time.dad goes ape when he sees kid hang all over dogs and lick em back. (tongue to tongue).i was raised in different enviroment and turned out different.so new york city dad has son with a pony a thoroughbred a goat 8 chickens 3 dogs. and a house in the woods.hes never held a gun. but i did get himto go striper fishing.

joab
August 28, 2006, 09:47 PM
Not to sound PC, but for some strange reason, a lot of people are fearful of black dogs.Never thought of that, but I am more cautious around black dogs.
Don't know why, all the dogs that have ever bitten me were light colored and mostly white at that.
Go figure, must be my Wiccan sisters influence.

so new york city dad has son with a pony a thoroughbred a goat 8 chickens 3 dogs. and a house in the woods.hes never held a gun. but i did get himto go striper fishing.That's too funny. I was raised for a time the way you will be raising your kids and my son is about as Metro as you can get. When he was born we lived on a small farm with pigs ,chickens, and rabbits.

Rumble
August 28, 2006, 10:01 PM
Some people are just scared of animals. I had some guys come to clean my carpets once, and one of them (big, tattooed guy, kind of intimidating) was paralyzed by fear at my cat. Now, granted, he does have a frickin' laser on his frickin' head, but still, he's pretty squishy. Anyway, the guy was afraid to the point that he refused to enter the house, and stood there begging me to put the cat in another room. Not rational, clearly.

Perhaps this is either a bad experience problem, or a phobia of unknown provenance.

Atticus
August 28, 2006, 10:10 PM
Well...I'd say the article below explaines alot of it. I'm sure the vast majority of these people were bitten by "dogs that don't bite". Personally, I'll trust your dog when I know your dog, and I'll trust you when I know you, otherwise you and your dog will be viewed a little suspiciously till then. I love it when dog owners tell me how nice their dog is, as he stands there growling at me with his hackles raised....kinda like those mom's of murderers who talk about how their son is a good boy that just went bad for a minute. I like dogs, but I'm not going to trust the judgement of the owner or the dog till I've been around them a bit.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
Dog Bite Statistics
There is a dog bite epidemic in the United States. There are almost 5 million victims annually -- about 2% of the entire population. 800,000 need medical attention. 1,000 per day need treatment in hospital emergency rooms. Between 15 and 20 die per year. Most of the victims who receive medical attention are children, half of whom are bitten in the face. Dog bite losses exceed $1 billion per year, with $345 million paid by insurance.

The problem appears to be growing. In a 7-year period during the 1990's, the number of dogs rose by 2% while the number of bites increased by 33%. The property/casualty insurance industry paid $250 million for dog bite claims in 1995, $310 million in 2001, and $345.5 million in 2002. Additional losses were paid by other segments of the insurance industry, such as health insurers.

The dog bite epidemic: a primer
Canine homicides and the dog bite epidemic: do not confuse them
The dogs most likely to kill
Children are the most frequent victims
The face is the most frequent target

Frog48
August 28, 2006, 10:13 PM
My dog is a little Boston Terrier, so I've never had that problem. Everyone can immediately tell that she is totally harmless.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a244/SigEpGrant/Dixie/Dixie42.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a244/SigEpGrant/Dixie/Dixie37.jpg

cassandrasdaddy
August 28, 2006, 10:18 PM
i like black mutts. and its does seem to be true that they scare folks.i've got a lab husky mix that sleeps with kittens and chickens and she terrifies folks.they are a lil harder to read and sometimes look sinister

NineseveN
August 28, 2006, 10:33 PM
If they have teeth, they bite. Nothing wrong with being cautious about any animal in your proximity...freezing up and going all deer in the headlights is a bit much though. If I see an animal or a dog I don't know, I gently massage the butt of my gun inconspicuously...just in case. Nothing wrong with that, and I love dogs. :)

oops!
August 28, 2006, 10:34 PM
double post

oops!
August 28, 2006, 10:38 PM
I was raised around dogs, hunting and watch dogs.

At 10 years old I had my left calf muscles ripped severely by a German shepard.
I was delivering papers at the time.

About 2 years ago I was sitting on the pavement outside my apartment, near Houston. I was cleaning the rear wheel on my motorcycle. A neighbor came outside with his Rottweiler. The dog yanked the leash off his arm and crossed about 50 ft. of pavement in a full run. I did not even have time to get to my feet.
I put out my left hand which the dog clamped down on to the bone.

This jerk started pulling the dog by the collar and was ripping my hand to shreds. I finally kicked the owner in the groin. I killed the dog with a crescent wrench from my open toolbox. The dog did not let go till the end.

The owner, to this day says that dog didn't do anything requiring me to kill it.

I'm 6'1", weigh 245, any dog that rushes me dies, PERIOD.

I think that with today's population density we need to take a serious look at the regulation of dog ownership, at least in urban locations.

BTW, I get to spend the rest of my life with no feeling, in 3 fingers. Just so some jerk could have a 100lb. animal that he couldn't control.

leadcounsel
August 28, 2006, 10:39 PM
Funny, I have a black dog that is an Australian Cattle Dog mix. He is incredibly friendly.

I get asked routinely if he is a pit bull!? I always follow up by saying, "No, he's not even part pit bull," and asking "have you ever SEEN a pit bull?

Anyway, how's this story for irony: I was walking my LEASED dog and a black woman had two of her dogs RUN ACROSS the street to harass MY DOG. My dog's tail was wagging as they sniffed each other. The black woman was extremely rude to me, couldn't control HER dogs, was reluctant to come get HER dogs and kept asking me if MY dog was friendly or a pit bull! Was SHE witnessing the same thing I WAS? I scoffed at her and told her that she was being prejudiced against the color of my dog and that she should stop being so bigoted!

I agree that many people are incredibly ignorant both about dog breeds and behavior, and way too often judge based on color alone.

bender
August 28, 2006, 10:47 PM
My wife & I have a great dane puppy (7 months old). He's a 93 pound big baby. Most people we come across want to come up to him and pet him, even moms with a baby or toddler.

Maybe Texans aren't as timid as others...

When I was 3 or 4 I got bit bad (thru the hand) by a neighbor's dog. My mom was pissed (from when she relates the story to me these days), and had the dog killed. I never had any PTSD from it - from as far back as I can remember I always wanted to make friends with any dog I met, even after that incident.

Maybe there wasn't PTSD back in the 60s...? :confused:

roo_ster
August 28, 2006, 11:07 PM
Some folks are just plain scared of dogs.

When I was first dating my wife, I'd sometimes take Ten out for a walk. Ten was/is a German Shorthaired Pointer in terrific health. All his musculature is on display, thanks to that short hair. I have never had so many college girls stop to talk with me than when I was walking Ten. One truckfull of coeds even came to a skidding stop in order to talk with us.

So, hot chicks dig guys with big, athletic dogs. Take note, all you single guys.

OTOH, when my wife ran errands in her car with Ten for company, she often was asked, "Is that a Pit Bull?!?!" To some folks, a big, muscular dog = Pit Bull. Unless you are a squirrel or a bird, you are safe with Ten. He even tolerates my 22 month old son with affection and tolerance.

Atticus
August 28, 2006, 11:33 PM
Grant48 -Boston Terriers are great dogs. I had one as a best friend for the first twelve years of my life, and I'm considering getting another one for my kids next year. But there is no such thing as a totally harmless dog. My BT was the neighborhood pet, he ran loose most of the time (1960's). Everyone loved him and considered him as their own dog...all except the little girl he bit in the face when she picked him up and he didn't like it. No one saw the event, so I don't know what else she might have done to him. He'd never so much as growled at anyone prior to that time, and he never did afterward. The dog and the kid should have been better supervised. But I'm sure she tells her kids (and/or grandkids) how she got that big scar on her face till this day.

Hardware
August 28, 2006, 11:46 PM
I have two pit bulls and you're only in danger if you're allergic to dog spit. My Boston Terrier is the only one of my dogs that has ever bitten me, nipped me on the big toe. When they say let sleeping dogs lie, they aren't kidding. :rolleyes:

However, at the age of three I had my left cheek ripped off by a dalmatian. And got a nasty bite on the crotch from a neighbors german shepherd at the age of 11. :what: :what: :what:

My sister has never been bitten and she's afraid of dogs. Don't get bent out of shape about it. It isn't the dog's fault. It's just people being people.

Koobuh
August 29, 2006, 12:05 AM
Frankly, I don't blame the woman. If you don't know the person handling an animal, or the animal itself... being cautious could save your life.

Yes, yes, I'm sure you, sitting in front of the computer screen, are ready to tell me in exhaustive details how sweetums would never hurt a fly.

But for all I know, walking down the street, never having met you before in my life, you regularly abuse your dog or have trained it to attack.
This is not limited to a particular breed spectrum in any way. Wariness is wisdom when it comes to animals that are capable of seriously harming you.

Cesiumsponge
August 29, 2006, 12:17 AM
I suppose the color black is considered evil, so:

black rifles = assault rifles
black dogs = assault dogs

Firethorn
August 29, 2006, 12:29 AM
Grant48,

Believe it or not, I've had people mistake my parent's BTs for pit bulls.

Some people just don't have a clue.

pete f
August 29, 2006, 01:41 AM
I just consider it arrested development.


Dogs sense fear and are freaked by it and respond back to it with aggitation.


If you act like the dog is supposed to be subservient to you, the dog feels that as a normal response to itself and feels calm.

Sindawe
August 29, 2006, 02:19 AM
When they say let sleeping dogs lie, they aren't kidding.It is also wise to not attempt to forcibly drag them out from under the bed. 'Specially while wearing a disguise (well, a disguise from the dogs point of view). One is likely to get bit; 'though the little frellnik STILL went to the Mountains that day. :evil: It's all in size, appearance and the other folks ignorance.Yeppers. When I would walk our Pointer as a youth, those who did not know the animal tended to keep their distance. Later when I would walk Hansel my miniature Dachshund (see above) EVERYBODY would who saw the little snot would make a fuss over him.

I've always treated unknown dogs with respect, but not fear. Even those deeply suspicious Dobermans I meet only a few times. There is only ONE dog I every really mistrusted. It was an Australian Shepherd with piercing blue eyes. Everytime I went over to visit the GF and her family, this horror would snarl, bark and bite at the pen to get out and eat me. One day, I came over when he was OUT. He dashed at me teeth bared and hackles raised, got within 10 feet, threw himself on the ground and proceeded to urinate all over himself. From that day forward I was his best buddy. :confused:

Hmmm...all this talk of canines is fueling my nascent desire to live with one again, even though the Cats will object.

LkWinnipesaukee
August 29, 2006, 02:22 AM
BAN DOGS!!!!!:cuss:


we dont deserve the right to own a dog

silverlance
August 29, 2006, 02:51 AM
You guys (well a lot of you) already saw my thread on what happened to my dog and I. I will be updating it soon, but I can't talk about it yet because of possible legal problems. Suffice it to say that the other party feels that I should be compensated for my two $50 copays, be a good little neighbor, and lick my wounds quietly so I don't raise a bother.

I love dogs. I have my own. Heck, I picked him off the street of downtown Los Angeles - it doesn't get any more sketchy than that.

But I hate, DESPISE any dog owner who walks his dog without a leash. It is utterly irresponsible, something in the realm of "my kids know better than to play with the loaded .38 I keep on my nightstand" and "I know MY kids, and THEY will never do THAT".

I trust my dog with MY life, but there is no way in hell I'd leave him with the neighbor's daughter or gardener's wife unsupervised by yours truly. Indeed, I would not trust even my girlfriend's 6lb yorkshire terrier with my neighbor's daughter.

This is because I am not prepared to try to explain to the cops and distraught parents why it is that my dog COULD NEVER have done SUCH A THING as, say, rip open the girl's chin.. or left eye... or medial thigh.

For those of your - and I mean no one in particular - who like to walk about town with some sort of derived feeling of superiority from their swarthy animals - don't be surprised when the next "pansy" that you carelessly let your dog run up to decides to bite first.

ugaarguy
August 29, 2006, 02:58 AM
I think that with today's population density we need to take a serious look at the regulation of dog ownership, at least in urban locations.

BTW, I get to spend the rest of my life with no feeling, in 3 fingers. Just so some jerk could have a 100lb. animal that he couldn't control.

First I'm sorry for your injuries, and I agree that your neighbor should have controlled his dog. However, that's no reason to regulate dog ownership. One owner's irresponsibility is no reason to restrict other responsible folks from owning a particular size or breed of dog, motorcycle or car capable of certain high speeds, or firearm of certain caliber or cartridge capacity. FWIW it doesn't take a 100lb dog to inflict injuries like you sustained. A 15lb Jack Russell Terrier can easily inflict that type of injury. A 100lb American Bulldog can tackle bulls & cows. Hunting & working dog breeds are incredible animals and must be respected as such. They're also faithful, compassionate, and loyal friends.

jeepmor
August 29, 2006, 03:08 AM
Some people just like being ignorant as to animals. I have never seen a lab bite anyone. I know it has happened, but never in my 30+ years of being around them. But again, some people are just like that, they enjoy feeding their own fears instead.

Also, I can tell if a dog is a wildcard, it's just like people, it's in the eyes. Can't say exactly what it looks like, but you can tell.

I had some solicitors come through the culdesac the other day and my two labs greeted them with wagging tails. They were Jehovah Witness or the sort and the lady said, isn't there a leash law. I said, you're on my property, and my neighbor's. My neighbor allows my dogs on his property. You ma'am, as a solicitor, would be well advised to get off my property, you are not welcome here. Plus, my dogs would not be off their leashes if they were problematic. Actually, they obey better than most solicitors.

I'm thinking about painting No Soliciting on my driveway to keep these types out of my yard. I don't know how to keep it subtle and unobtrusive, but effective. Maybe some 4-5" letter height stencils on the low driveway curb.

jeepmor

c_yeager
August 29, 2006, 03:14 AM
Believe it or not, some dogs actually do bite people without warning, some folks deal with that better than others. The only dog that every bit me was a black lab when I was a child. Now I understood (even at that age) that the dog didnt have any real malice behind its action, and I didnt grow afraid of dogs because of it (I grew up with them) but I can see that others might react differently.

Firethorn
August 29, 2006, 07:08 AM
c_yeager, was that a bite or a 'nip'?

What I mean is, I've never been bit, but I've been nipped many times. What I generally mean by nip is that a part of you ends up in the dogs mouth and contact is made with the teeth, but no injury is done.

JShirley
August 29, 2006, 08:06 AM
The dog was on a leash.

The lady has an issue.

I like dogs.

I dislike cats.

I'll kill a dog that's a threat as summarily as I will dispatch any other threat.

Y'all should see how the Afghans treat dogs. :( On second thought, no you shouldn't- y'all would be advocating the "make 'em a parking lot" solution. :fire:

1911 guy
August 29, 2006, 08:39 AM
It's kind funny how people are afraid of larger dogs and feel the need to squeeze and pet every small dog they see. I have an 80 pound lab that has never bitten anyone (except me when we're playing rough, nipping me) and hasn't even shown aggression when it would be warranted. My big dog is a wuss. Loves people, too. Wants to play and be petted. My two year old son uses her as a "horse" on occassion and she loves the attention. Maggie is ten years old and has been this temperment all her life.

My mother has, on the other hand, a miniature daschund that will bite anyone it doesn't see more than once a week. Ornery little cuss. Dog weighs all of about five pounds and has bitten me, my uncle, a few neighbors, the neighbors cats, the list goes on. Luckily, it's getting old and will be put down soon. I won't let my son anywhere near that little monster.

Bottom line is that dogs are like people, or, more accurately, like any other relatively intelligent animal. They have personalities that are a result of their upbringing and training.

JBusch8899
August 29, 2006, 08:39 AM
I actually found mine wandering about, shortly after moving into my home. He was about two years old at the time.

Knowing dogs as I do, Labs are predisposed to pleasing people. This one was not any different.

I thought that he had to belong to somebody, so I had animal control pick him up. Better that, than the dog getting hit by a car.

I went back a week later. The dog was premedicated and an hour away from being euthanized. He was sick for a couple days, but all turned out well for him.

In any case, that Halloween, I found out that this black dog didn't like blacks (oops, I am so not PC....African Americans). I don't know if he was mistreated by a person of black persuasion, picked up the dislike/trained by a previous owner, it's something about the people he just doesn't like, or ?

While he is a big 110 lb, playful baby, he also has gotten very territorial. This isn't uncommon for a Lab. He has a tendency to growl, put his fur up and bark to keep out the salesmen and repo agents (LOL, j/k).

But he is also ultrasensitive to children. He whines and finds someone when he hears a child cry or a child is outside without an adult nearby.

People be damned as they don't have a clue to dogs or anything else that is used for the protection of people. Even for all it's supposed faults.

dc0120
August 29, 2006, 08:46 AM
I never did understand why people are so terrified of Pits, I have had 3 and they have all been the sweetest dogs you could want. One was scared of the dark, one was a big lap dog and the last just slept alot.

I have 2 little black mutts now and if someone she doesnt know gets to close to me the larger of the 2 probably will bite. People she knows she loves them forever.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=44907700&imageID=682767746&MyToken=5f60f0cd-c4fd-45bb-965a-137e31100424

Socrates
August 29, 2006, 09:17 AM
Different animals react differently. They can't talk, so, they often use their mouths to let you know. We have a cat around here, affectionate, wonderful, probably a domestic cat that was left by former owners. She's wonderful, rubs against your leg, rolls over, etc. but, when she's done being affectionate, if you haven't figured it out, she tells you with a nice, deep bite. She did this to me, and, got a vein in my girlfriends arm, and, hospital time.

Had a german shepard do the same thing to me, when I was four. Snapped, and nailed me in the face, but, didn't draw blood.

S

trueblue1776
August 29, 2006, 09:42 AM
I've got a theory about Atticus' doge bite statistics:

Have you ever been in a ghetto, barrio, etc?

Have you ever been to a neighborhood where people held down jobs to feed their families?

Have you ever compared the dogs you see in the ghetto/barrio to the ones you'd see in normal neighborhoods?

Have you ever been to an emergency room?

Was it full of people from the ghetto/barrio with no apparent problems?

My theory is this: Our ghettos here in the south look like a shelled out african warzone, the dogs are sick looking mutant pitbull hybrids who have all sorts of "beat dog syndrom" and the like. Couple that with people who dont work so they have plenty of time to go to the emergency room to try to get percosets for an animal bite. EUREAKA!!!!

Oh and then there are the sheltered white bread folks who run from anything, the best catchdogs in the world think running is a game, then you turn around and scream and hit an already excited dog.... whoops.....

And you have my generation, the only time they ever break a sweat is when they get a years membership to bally's and go for one day. Oh yeah, they can handle anything. They see a pitbull on TV and get one, only to find out that 8 week old puppy will crap on the floor, so they throw the dog out back for the next three years, until it finds out that it can jump the fence, now you have an antisocial (human-aggressive) fighting dog on the loose.

I love animals, especially dogs, I have wondered for a few years now why law enforcement doesn't pay more attention to animal cruelty. If somebody could hurt/neglect a little puppy/kitten they might have the ability to do that to a person? Maybe? Probably?

Not that I think anyone will disagree that 99.9% (the other .1% is rabid) of dog attacks are antisocial animals with lazy owners who never bothered to train or socialize their pets.


(sorry if it rambled a bit, I guess it's obvious I love my dogs)

progunner1957
August 29, 2006, 09:49 AM
Not to sound PC, but for some strange reason, a lot of people are fearful of black dogs. Black dogs = :what: Black guns = :what:
I suppose the color black is considered evil, so:

black rifles = assault rifles
black dogs = assault dogs
In the minds of the sheeple, only "The Government" should have black rifles; is that true for black dogs too? :rolleyes:

Maybe I'll Duracoat my AR15 powder blue so it will be a "happy rifle" to the sheeple...:neener:

Roadwild17
August 29, 2006, 10:06 AM
+1 1911 guy

Dog are just like people, they have "bad days". My lab nipped me nicely once (she had pupps and I was checkin then out, they were about 2-3 weeks old) Anyway, she didnt like something I did to one of the pupps so she let me know. Other than that the dog never never showed any aggression at all. I can testiment to this, but I'de rather not embaris my self like that :o .

On the other hand, we have a poodle that is a bit me more times than I can remember. I can get off the sofa, and the dog would have a problem with it, and tare into my foot.


hey 1911, 10 years is a little old for you lad to be playing horse to a 2 year old, think about s/he and future back problems.

JShirley
August 29, 2006, 10:26 AM
JB,

I am aware of only one "African American" on this board...he's been in the US for about 12 years, I believe?
I don't typically call myself a "Euro American", either. :rolleyes:

John, hates racism and stupidity both

Brass Fetcher
August 29, 2006, 10:42 AM
trueblue1776, +1. It sounds like we're part of the same generation. Guns only exist on video games and in the hands of criminals, etc. :rolleyes:

dfaugh
August 29, 2006, 11:00 AM
Well, I was gonna bite my tongue and stay out this one...but when it comes to dogs, and especially misinformation about them I can't resist.

As far as the "dog bite epidemic"....There aren't significantly more dog bites now than there were 25 years ago. They are just reported much more often, often because legally, the hospitals MUST report any dog bites. And, in our "sue happy" society, people are now much more likely to report a "bite", so they can legally get some $$$. When I was young, you got bit, you went to the doctor, got it taken care of, and moved on.

Now there are dog bites, and there are dog BITES. 99.9% are little more than a scratch, or some broken skin. Speaking from experience, if a dog, especially a large one REALLY bites you, It will do SERIOUS DAMAGE. But,again, most of the reported dog bites, amount to very little.

Additionally, and also speaking from experince, AT LEAST 98-99% of dog bites are provoked, either intentionally, or unintentionally. This is because most people, AND ESPECIALLY CHILDREN are not taught how to behave around dogs. I'm sure we've all taught our children about guns, traffic and strangers. WHY don't we teach them how to behave around dogs?
YES, it's the dog owners responsibility to control their dog, but accidents happen, and dogs get loose from time to time. And most dogs, when outside their territory, will become much more "laid back" than they might on their home turf.

Example #1: My ex girlfriend (before she was my girfriend) had one of her dogs (a GSD) bite (more like a nip) a neighborhood child, when her then-boyfriend let her 2 dogs loose to run the neighborhood, while he mowed the lawn. The neighborhood kids were running and playing a couple houses down. The male dog, chasing one of the kids, "nipped" at her heels, and drew blood. INSTANT panic by the parents, who took her to the hospital, for what was barely a scratch. I was called in as an "expert" to test the dogs temperment. I COULD NOT get this dog to bite, no matter what I did, even when I threatened the owner (the eventual girlfriend). In most GSDs this would DEFINITELY get a reaction (Now I've trained Schutzhund Sport for several years, and I can get pretty much ANY dog to bite if I try hard enough). This one just simply didn't have it in him. He was "playing" with the children, that's all. Unfortunately, regardless of my stated opinion, he was put to sleep, as a "dangerous dog".

Example #2: When I first moved into my current house, I had several GSDs. I put up a temporary 4' fence (which they were used to) until I could put up a 6' stockade fence (not that that would stop 'em, the're trained to scale a 6' foot wall, for Schutzhund Sport). I had a female over here for breeding, and even though she had always been in a 4' fence she decided she was gonna scale the fence. I put an electric collar on her and zapped her for about 2 weeks, whenever she went near the fence. Problem solved---NOT. One day, I was watching the big male and her, and my son called me away, as he'd injured himself. You guessed it, she went over the fence, and the male followed (Which he would never do on his own). My neighbor (who had admitted he was afraid of GSDs) was out raking his lawn. Both these dogs were very social, and immediately went over to see the neighbor. The male was a very vocal dog (he would bark at me to get my attention), and probably barked at the neighbor (to get his attention).
Now this dog was 4 years old, and by the time he was 2 he had multiple Schutzhund, AKC obedience AND the AKC Good Citizen award. He'd been around THOUSANDS of people, including hundreds of children, who would pull his ears and tail, and all manner of other things. He'd had other dogs go after him at shows, and in public, and never reacted.
SO, what does the neighbor do? He whacks a 125 lb. German Shepherd in the testicles. Bad idea. I was actually proud of the dog, as he only bit the guys hand, enough to stop the attack (on himself). He could've easily done much more damage, if he chose to.

Most unfortunate was that the dog developed an infection in his "privates" that spread to the rest of his body...He almost died, I spent $6000 to save him, and eventually both testicles had to be removed. (which probably cost me a fortune, as I could've sold every puppy he ever produced...I was offered $20,000 for this dog when he was 2). The medical bills for the dog greatly exceeded the bills for my neighbors injuries.

Of course the neighbor wanted my "dangerous dog" put to sleep, but because of his sterling record of titles, plus the testimony of about 100 Nationally and World reknowned trainers that wasn't gonna happen. Not to mention the fact that if they had ordered him destroyed, he would've "ran away" to parts unknown.

OK, enough for now, I'm sick of typing.

Art Eatman
August 29, 2006, 11:17 AM
And that's enough of what wasn't really on-topic to start with. :)

Art

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