chose my first pistol with advice from this board now need more advice

[knicks118]

hey guys,
i recently posted a request for some advice for my first pistol and went with a s&w 5906(used).
i also recently picked up an arcus HP clone(new).

now i'm looking for a CCW and do not know what to get. i searched posts and saw recommendations for the ruger sp101 and glock 26/27. are there any other good choices?
requirements:
1. under $300
2. powerful enough to stop someone in 1 shot
3. small/lightweight
4. accurate/reliable

thanks

[Mark54g]

You can find many decent carry handguns under $300 (especially if you don't mind used). However, lose the "stop someone in 1 shot" thing. That is movies, myths and legends. You may be able to stop someone with one shot of mace, but it doesn't mean you should count on it. Carry something that has power, yes, but please don't overestimate the power of the gun or cartridge.

That being said, have you thought about a used 5 shot revolver? You could also look at a Keltec 9mm of various types.

[Geronimo45]

Bersa's are pretty cheap. Makarovs are, too. Lots of used revolvers that you can get for low prices. CZ 83s run about 330, but you might find one for less. Beretta .32s are cheap (before you say it won't do the job, let me say that the .32 started the first world war, by blasting Archduke Ferdinand. Probably with the much derided FMJ ammo. too), and Taurus probably has some like it.

[Cousin Mike]

There are a ton of good choices out there for a carry weapon that fit all of your needs - well, except the one that's already been addressed. :D

My advice would be to think about what your priorities are in a carry weapon.. Capacity? "Power"? Power, I'm assuming = caliber... Give some thought to the caliber you're considering. The more bullet you use, the more capacity you tend to give up - except those rare cases like the Taurus Mil Pro's or the baby Glocks (It's like there's a magic shrinking beam in the mag or something... how do they cram all that .45 in such a small gun?!?!) that are tiny and still hold a lot of rounds.

Is weight going to be a big issue? Obviously size is, but to what extent? Is compact ok, or do you prefer a subcompact size? Pocket pistol, perhaps? A steel gun is going to be a lot heavier than a polymer gun - but weight affects recoil. Is recoil a big issue? Do you want a revolver or an auto?

And then, of course, you have to get your hands on one and see how it feels.

There's a lot to making a decision for a carry gun. It's not a choice you should make because person X in a gun forum told you to get Brand X, model X... A home defense gun or a range plinker, you can take those chances if you wish. A carry piece is much more personal. Good luck in your research! Let us know what you find!

[Geronimo45]

Don't forget to consider HOW you'll be carrying it (OWB, IWB, shoulder...). That can mean a lot as to what gun you get.

[TimboKhan]

Well, its kind of a personal choice, but I personally have always lusted after a stainless Kahr for my own use. Doesn't really fit your price requirement though, so I guess I would suggest a Makarov, although you would need to do some research to make sure you got a good one. Makarov.com would be a good place to go to learn more about these very well-liked guns.

That being said dude, you seriously need to learn to shoot before carry becomes a serious consideration for you. I certainly don't want to discourage you from buying a gun, and in fact I encourage you to buy as many guns as your heart desires, to include a CCW gun of some sort. However, before you actually carry, I advise that you put some (read: as much as humanly possible) trigger time in. One advantage of practicing shooting is that it's fun, so you have no excuse!

Also, pay close attention to Mark54g's statement about forgetting about one-stop kills. He is 100%, absolutely, completely, totally, no arguments allowed correct when he tells you to get that one stop shot nonsense out of your head. One shot stops have much more to do with marksmanship (and/or luck) than they do with caliber, although caliber logically does play a role in things. To be straight up honest with you, you would have to be one hell of a marksman, in addition to being very cool under extremely high stress, to even consider one-shot stops. Unless you are both already, then one-shot stops should not be a point of contention with you.

[10-Ring]

Depending on how you plan to carry & your personal stature, the guns you have might work...if not, the Glock 26 & the sp101 you have in mind would both be nice choices.

[symr00]

Don't be cheap when it comes to a gun carried to save your life. I can't think of too many guns under $300 that I would trust my life to except for a Kel-Tec P-11. I think if you go up another $100 you it'll open up you choices.

[srtboise]

i get the impression you are new to hanguns. if so, my recommendation is to shoot the two guns you already have as much as possible before spending money on a gun for a specific purpose. as your experience increases your criteria for another gun is likely to change. many people carry full sized weapons concealed on a regular basis. i frequently carry a 5" 1911 iwb in a milt sparks vm2. with a good holster either of the guns you already have will be good ccw tools as long as they are reliable and you shoot them well. also, either one of those guns will make a good home defense weapon as well as a great plinker.

more guns are always better but after a couple thousand rounds thru your smith and hp clone you will likely have decided exactly what you want for your next purchase. for now, use your $300 to buy lots of ammo and have fun getting familiar with the guns you have.

steve

[Snake Eyes]

Colt Detective Special. Why buy a low-cap revolver (5 shot S&W) when you can have a full cap piece of history that fits in your pocket.

It'll kill people dead, too.

[knicks118]

since purchasing the 5906, ive been to the range everyday for about 3-4 weeks minus weekends and 150 rounds each visit.

ive taken a basic shooting course, basic safety course(for permit), and instructed by a veteran shooter once a week at the range

the reason im setting a low budget for my ccw is because I believe that practice is very important as you can tell so I budget myself accordingly for rangetime/ammo.

i'm definately not one of those people who buys something without learning to efficiently use it.

i'm most likely going to go with the glock 27 due to the caliber, size, and weight.
i would prefer a polymer, semi, and very light.
it is out of the price range i was shooting for but you guys are right about getting what you pay for.

[weregunner]

The Makarov and Bersa ideas are good ones.It seems Maks are hard to find right now.If not I'm missing something here.Went around the internet gun store sights and either they were backlogged or call because we might not have it.I know that internet gunstores sometimes have problems keeping updates current.Checked J&G,CDNN,KY Imports and 5 other sites and came up empty.There are very few at www.makarov.com. The CZ 83 or 82 seem to be all the rage right now.Most places on the internet for surplus handguns seem to have them.Own 2 Maks and have many reasons to like them.There are many other choices so I'll step aside and let someone give there ideas before I let this become long winded.

[srtboise]

great, sounds like you have already worked out what you want.

as to 'you get what you pay for', here is my experience:

when i was younger and couldnt afford much i tried to purchase as many guns for as little money as possible. the results were autos that were jam-a-matics with loose sights and mags that fell apart and revolvers with atrocious trigger pulls that seemed to spray as much lead sidways thru the cylinder gap as they sent down range.

now i believe quality is more important than quantity. i have a habit of ignoring guns that are priced below $400ish so i dont have any good suggestions in your price range.

steve

[Frandy]

2. powerful enough to stop someone in 1 shot

http://aardvark.co.nz/pjet/images/cruise1.jpg :evil:

Seriously, I agree with those who say you should practice, practice, practice... Then, get clear about your needs regarding carry, and get a carry gun that is not on the cheap. Yes, there are plenty of used handguns that can be had for $300 that will serve you well at the range or for self defense, but first take your time...

[Clipper]

Well, I beg to differ with the guys who don't think you can get a good pistol cheap...I have a Taurus MilPro PT-145 (stainless) that is lightweight, accurate, comfortable to shoot, holds 10+1 .45ACP and cost $320.00 new. I've never experienced a failure of any kind, either. The blued version is $298.00 locally. And just to stir up the 1911 guys, I sold my Kimber Ultra Carry in favor of the Taurus. Bought the gun and LOTS of ammo with the proceeds...

[steveracer]

I'm a TLAM shooter in the US Canoe Club, and I think you're right about one-shot stops.
My vote is the SP101 over the plastic pistol. .357 Mag will win almost every gunfight.

[gezzer]

Why not carry the 5906 and spend your money on leather and ammo?

[goings_51]

Here in Texas, concealment under shorts and a tee shirt can be a challenge. The Kel-Tec .380 is the only thing south of a $1000 Seacamp that is up to the challenge. The Kel-tec may be less refined than the Seacamp, but performs better from what I've read.

The Kel-Tec 9mm or any of the Taurus aluminum frame revolvers would also work if you don't mind dressing around the gun. Some of the Smith aluminum snubies can be found for $300ish if you forgo the exotic alloys. A Macarov is another excellent choice if you can find one.

[Legionnaire]

Another vote here for the Kel-Tec P11 if you must stay below $300. It's a good gun for the money. That said, I'd look for a Kahr P9. You won't find one for $300, but it has a great trigger, is slimmer than the Kel-Tec, and the magazines don't rattle like the P11's are apt to do. I've owned a couple of P11s, a couple of Kahrs (both the steel and polymer versions), and a compact Glock (G27). For compact, lightweight CCW, the Kahr P9 or the PM9 are the cat's meow.

The new Kel-Tec PF-9 is (will be?) a single stack 9mm that ought to have a street price close to your target. It might be an option, especially if it's as reliable as the P11. (When they are finally available ...)

[browningguy]

Well I was out today, wearing a tee shirt and shorts, with a .40 Cal. Browning High power and 1 spare mag. I think the Arcus would be fine for concealed carry, get a good IWB holster and off you go.

My backup is a Bersa 380. Sometimes when I'm just staying in the 'burbs that's all I carry. I find it much more controllable than the smaller guns in
.380 or 9mm. I've tried a couple of them, and find some of them, particularly the smallest 9mm and .40's, to be almost uncontrollable for me. I do shoot my .25's (Browning and Beretta 21) pretty decent at 5 yards, but that's not a .380.

My personal opinion is that if you can't conceal either of the two you have, stick with a mid-sized pistol. You'll practice with it more and shoot it better.

[knicks118]

the arcus is heavier than the browning HP

[Cosmoline]

Shoot a wide variety of handguns to see what you like best. If you're a novice you will probably find most CCW's bigger than a 9x19 kick you pretty good. It takes some time learning stances and practicing before you get used to it. The SP may be too much for a beginner, and learning to shoot a snub nose revolver accurately is no small task. You will probably find the semis easier to aim and handle. I would suggest a used Glock 23 or other medium frame Glock rather than the really compact ones. They conceal fine and most people find them easier to shoot.

[dhoomonyou]

Unless its a head shot.

[Just_a_dude_with_a_gun]

Under $300 you are somewhat limited to used duty/service pistols, revolvers and some foreign stuff.

A used 9mm like a G26 / G19 / XDCompact / sig 239 / walther P99 / FNP9m would be be nice, but are probably more than $300

A ruger SP101 2-3", SW Snubby, in .38 or .357 would be good.

In the "foreign" category, a Makarov in 9x18, or Bersa in .380, can definitely be had for under $300.

[MD_Willington]

CZ 82's (9x18) are going pretty cheap right now...jgsales has some..

[chongfa]

For that type of budget. I would recommend either a S&W or ruger revolvers. You can find new or slightly used good quality .38 sp or .357 mag revolvers.

If you really want a semiauto, I would recommend Walther P99, you can find a used one for around $375. I got mine for that much.

Just to beat on the dead horse, lose your 1 shot drop them mentality. Even if you fire a .500 S&W at a bad guy and miss or hit them in the finger, all that will do is just really pissing them off.

[tegemu]

Stopping someone in one shot is veritably a myth. It can be done but it requires a hit in very small precise areas. I carry 1911's which have the mistaken legend of being designed to stop a running, crazed man with one shot.

[AsianDragonPower]

a .500S magnum would do the one hit job

only problem is its so powerful the recoil will feel like a hunting rifle, and its extra heavy, put that thing on your waist and it will pull your pants down

[Troutman]

With the 500, it’s possible. But no guarantee (always believed in the one shot, one kill approach). I have a 500, 4inch. I look at it as an edge, a plus, than a guarantee... But there are always tradeoffs. Over-penetration using full loads. Have to watch what is behind, what you’re shooting at. Using reduce loads would be better for home protection and chl use. I know I’m going to contradict myself here. But when it comes to home protection, “at night”. You’re better (for me) with full loads. It’s not uncommon for guys that go around, robbing houses, at night, to be wearing vests. Type 2 or 2A, more common (cancelable) besides having a knife, gun or whatever other contraband they are using. These guys that do this, have…..how can I say in a polite way….a different mindset, than a guy who does it in the daytime, who rather wait when no one is in the home? These guys that do it at night are up to no good. Their bold, cleaver (until fate is not on their side) and daring, their fast talkers when fate is not on their side! They always consider the possibility of someone being home at night. Who knows what kind of training (experience) they had? When it comes to these encounters. The world has changed, as well as the guy that is up to no good. More educated? Have a lot of time on their hands (previous country club living).
The key before using any kind of firearm is to know your laws (state), using “deadly force”. Keep your distance with these encounters, and act before an action is taken against you. Don’t Hesitate! I’ll leave it at that. If using a 500, make sure you prepare and become familiar with it. And that’s with anything you use. If your use to a 38. Don’t go to a 500, without becoming familiar with it. Me….. The recoil is not as bad as claimed, and you always have those reduce loads (500 specials). You have choices here, as well as the firearm you decide to choose. As always, with any encounter, there are always exceptions.

[RustyShackelford]

I doubt you could find a NIB pistol or revolver for under $300.00. If you buy a used weapon I'd go with a Ruger P-94 DAO or P-95 DAO for protection/CCW use.

RS

[Jimmy Newman]

Guys... the one shot stop thing isn't a myth. If you look at documented records of police shootings, i.e. occaisons in which officers shot perpetrators, you learn some interesting things. For shots in the torso, pretty much every caliber 9mm, .38SPL or better, with well designed hollowpoint defense ammunition, has a history of over 90% one shot stops. This is not to say one shot kills, but for instances in which only one shot was fired, it ended the situation at least 90% of the time. Handguns aren't magic, but they are very effective when used and targeted properly (i.e. when you do manage COM hits).

One source of this is a book called "Handgun Stopping Power" by Evan Marshall and Edwin Sanow.

[symr00]

the reason im setting a low budget for my ccw is because I believe that practice is very important as you can tell so I budget myself accordingly for rangetime/ammo.


90% of practice/training doesn't even involve shooting. Practice drawing from concealment, dry-firing and then go to the range to see your results.

[ezypikns]

Compact
Lightweight
under 300.00
9mm

A little too large for pocket carry. Try a 'Crossbreed' IWB holster. The 50.50 price tag includes shipping. It's the ONLY IWB holster I've been able to wear comfortably. It's a Kydex holster attached to an oversized leather pad. It may not be as refined as a holster from Milt Sparks or Mitch Rosen, but it's VERY comfortable and it's for CONCEALED carry anyway.

Another plus for 9mm: It's generally cheaper and more readily available than any other type of ammo. A real consideration if you're shooting 3 boxes a week.

[islandphish]

I'm not a gun-nut (exactly) or a tech-head with all of the latest statistics stapled to the insides of my eyelids. However, I will pass on to you an excellent piece of advice given to me by a guy who spent 22 years in the Special Forces before moving on to Law Enforcement.

"The best weapon for any situation is the weapon you have with you." - Alex Busch

Sure, if I knew ahead of time I'm going to be in a gunfight why would I want anything less than an 18" Gun from an Iowa class battleship? The problem is, they don't exactly fit in your pocket. When choosing a weapon for consistent, everyday carry, be certain you get one that you will actually continue to carry once the shine wears off. A Desert Eagle will certainly finish a firefight, but only if you have it with you. The largest caliber you can carry comfortably and shoot effectively is the correct answer here, and you are the only one who can answer that question.

Having said that, the guys here have given me some great advice on which particular firearms/holsters I should take for a test drive in my search for my CCW of choice.

[John C]

Knicks;

I would advise against the g27. .40 caliber generates about 27% more energy than the 9mm at the same pressure. That's 27% harder to shoot, compounded by the small size of the pistol.

I would advise looking for a g26. It's much easier to shoot, and cheaper to practice with, as well. You'll also have ammo commonality with your other pistols.

You mention that you've been shooting alot the last few weeks. Have you thought about trying out some shooting games, like IPSC or IDPA? They are very useful training and alot more fun than just punching paper.

Welcome!

-John

[Zen21Tao]

I have a g27 and find it heighly concealable but being a double stack it is rather bulky. New to my CCW collection is a Kahr PM40. It is a single stack .40s&w that is ultra thin. Someone else here mentioned a Sig P239. I also have a P239 in 40 S&W and find that it is a great IWB carry weapon. If you can expand you price range these would make great carry options.

I have to agree with others that say a $300 price tag is rather low when purchasing a gun that your very life may depend on. If you do choose to stay under $300 you may be limited to something like a Keltec or a .38spl from Taurus or Ruger.

[akodo]

Why not carry the 5906?

seriously, why not?

Now, it seems to me that while the G27 is somewhat smaller and lighter, just having a short barrel and abbreviated grips don't make a huge difference in how concealable it is, and with a fully loaded mag, it is still going to be heavy.

I'd suggest carrying the 5906, it is what you have shot the most so far, so you are already familiar with it.

Now, the 5906 is a full sized gun, but again, while the G27 is smaller, it is not 'tiny' and it seems to me most of the times taht a 5906 will truely be too big, the G27 may well be too big too. I'd suggest carrying the 5906 and having a second gun for CCW that is MUCH smaller, say a .32 beretta or something to cover those few times 5906 is too big.

Yes, lighter is easier for carry, but really, what should be your top priority when yiou carry? what is easiest or what is most effective?

Guys... the one shot stop thing isn't a myth. If you look at documented records of police shootings, i.e. occaisons in which officers shot perpetrators, you learn some interesting things. For shots in the torso, pretty much every caliber 9mm, .38SPL or better, with well designed hollowpoint defense ammunition, has a history of over 90% one shot stops.

This is exactly what most people are taking about, shot placement is the key...here it is a standard size catridge hitting the torso, and even then, it is only 90% effective

The famed 357 magnum using 125gr hollowpoints has what, a 97% one shot stop rate, so NOTHING is perfectly guarenteed to give one shot stops.

Plus, one must define 'one shot stops' Exactly how much time passes between bullet hitting and guy being dead or totally incapacitated? A guy charging forward with a knife getting shot may well still be able to stab you once or twice before succumbing to his own wounds

[tegemu]

The laws of physics pretty well rule out one STOP shots. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Hence if there is enouugh force to stop a moving man, then the recoil of the shot would be virtually uncontrollable. One shot KILLS are common.