[WebHobbit]

I carry a 640 Centennial .357 snub. For years I've loaded up with 110 grain SJHP Magnum ammo by Winchester or Remington (lately I've had a GREAT almost local source for the Remington stuff at only 11.99 per box of 50!).

After the great Marshall & Sanow debate over here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21184

And doing some reading over at http://www.tacticalforums.com/ I'm now wondering if there isn't maybe a better choice?

Personally I think the .38 Special is kind of weak especially from snub barrels so I'm sticking with Magnums....but which loading?

M&S's stats favor the 125 or 110. I think the 125 is a bit much for a small snub. The 110 is just manageable. :) Some say it may not penetrate enough.

What do you all think?

[MikeJ]

Hi WebHobbit,
I also have a 640 .357 and if I were going to carry .357's in it I would use the Remington 125 grain Golden Saber. As it is I carry Speer Gold Dot 125 grain .38+P's. The Golden Saber should give you about 1150-1200 fps and relatively good expansion from what I have gathered. Best, Mike

[WebHobbit]

Hmmmmm.....I dunno. I've fired the Sabers without incident in my snub but I did get some binding when I shot them in my 686+. Someone here at THR said they had experienced (and heard of plenty) of GS .357s with high primers causing binding.

[Dr.Rob]

158 gr SJHP or 158 GR hard cast semiwadcutter hp.

My snubby likes the heavier bullets, and so do I.

Colt Magnum Carry.. the few the proud, the seriously armed.

[WebHobbit]

158 grain? 14-15+ inches of penetration seems kinda risky to me.

[Blueduck]

I've only got two choices per agency requirment but luckily my all time choice is one of them :D38 Special Federal Hydra-Shok 147 Grain +P+

Very accurate in all my guns so far, low flash and acceptable recoil level. Also only $17.95 per 50 which puts a lot of "premium" loads in 20 or 25 round boxes to shame.

www.kieslersonline.com

[Jim March]

I'd try the Proload 125grain "Tactical Lite" 357, if the "Gold Dot" they use is the larger-cavity variant - I heard somewhere those may be discontinued from Speer. Or possibly the Proload 158grainer based on the Gold Dot, I'd want to see what the recoil is like...

Another option: have Weshoot2 at Gray Area Ammo brew up some unusually hot 158grain LSWC-HPs in 357 cases, set up to pull around 1,000fps from a 2" barrel. Those would be extremely warm by 38+P standards, mild for a 357, and would give you the performance of the 38+P version as fired in a 4" to 6" range barrel.

[WESHOOT2]

I, too, might suggest trying Pro Load's 'Tac-Lite'.

IMNSHO the 125g JHP going as fast as you can handle is a first choice, with a 110g JHP going as fast as you can handle second.
Last choice is a 158g anything.

All better than throwing rocks...................

[Gary A]

Well, I voted for the 110 load but not because I think it is "best" or is my favorite. I suspect the 125 full-power load is best. I like the 145 Winchester load the most of those listed. I really like 158 grain loads. The problem is I can't shoot the last three well from my snubby. I can shoot the 110 loads much better. Ergo, that is what I would use if I were to be carrying a .357 snub.

[Mark IV Series 80]

I carry the 158 grain, .38 Special +P LSWCHP's in my .357.

With this load, I have good controllability, and less muzzle blast than I would if I were shooting a .357 Magnum.

[JPM70535]

Shooting full on 357 factory JHPs from a snubby is not pleasant, however to get maximum effectiveness from a short barreled revolver there really is no substitute. IMO

My favorite has always been the WW STHP. Recoil is substantial but not unmanageable and as an added bonus, at close range the flame from the barrel will cauterize the wound created by the bullet possibly preventing blood stains on your carpet

[Quantrill]

I didn't know whether you meant "self defence" or "sectional density" but it doesn't matter because this load is the best of both. The Original Keith 358429 (168gr. hardcast semi-wadcutter) over 13 gr of 2400 powder. Makes a big hole and penetrates. Quantrill

[WebHobbit]

OK!

Quantrill wins the award for "worst suggestion so far"!



:scrutiny: :D

[Quantrill]

I am surprised and dissappointed that such a remark would be made. Quantrill

[Jim March]

Well it wasn't phrased very politely but...eh...it's not without some merit. Sigh. Sorry, but a solid, non-expanding 357 is just a bad idea, esp. in an urban environment.

[LIProgun]

Out of a snubby larger and heavier, like a 2.5" S&W 19/66, 2.75" Speed Six, or 3" S&W 13/65, my first choice would be the 145 grain Silvertip. Out of something as small as a 640, I'd opt for a mid-power .357 load like the 125 grain Remington Golden Saber or 125 Grain Pro Load Tactical Lite GDHP.

Out of the choices listed, the Federal Personal Defense 130 grain HydraShok fits the mid-power role. FWIW, I chronographed it at an average 1215 fps from a 2.5" S&W 66. From the same gun, the .357 Mag 125 grain Golden Saber came in at 1110 fps, and the 145 grain Silvertip at 1125 fps.

Hey, if you can handle more powerful stuff out of a 640 and don't mind the blast, noise, and flash -- go for it. Me, I'd be more likely to go with one of the loads above, or even a good, hot .38 Special load.

[braindead0]

125gr JHP with 17grains of W296, if the bullet doesn't kill them the ball of fire coming out of the barrel will!:evil:

Seriously speaking, for a snubby I'd probably use the lighter stuff..

[WebHobbit]

am surprised and dissappointed that such a remark would be made. Quantrill

Sorry Quantrill. No offense meant...just some friendly disagreement, hence the grinning smiley icon.

Not everyone agrees that HPs are better. I asked for everyone's opinion and you are entitled to yours.

[HankB]

Purely from a ballistic standpoint, I like a 148 grain HBWC loaded backwards over enough SR4756 to give a chronographed 1065 ft/sec out of a 2" barrel. (This is actually at a hot +P or even +P+ .38 Special level.)

The old-style Hornady was ideal for this load, as it had what amounted to a "crimping groove" about 1/8" from the base. The Speer HBWC is an acceptable substitute.

Contrary to popular wisdom, this load shows no propensity for tumbling (out to 25 yards) or excessive leading, at least in my revolvers.

Of course, in today's sue-happy society, many recommend against handloads for defense.

[TheFrontRange]

Give those 110-grain SJHPs a try. They worked well out of both 4-inch and 2-1/2-inch K-Frames I've fired, plus in their Winchester USA "white box" guise they're pretty inexpensive, too! I'd suspect they'd work well in a J-Frame, too, but I've not tried a .357 J yet myself.

[Dr.Rob]

The biggest beef with snubbies in the past is that you could not guarantee expansion. Well, if expansion fails then you have penetration with a heavier bullet.

Similarly, the old debate of fast vs. slow (ie too fast 110 dosen't penetrate enough, and in a snubbie its not fast enough)

Like I said, my subbie shoots the heavier stuff better and that's why I use it.

[22luvr]

I'm currently carrying Pro-Load 158 gr JHP's in standard pressure. I'm also looking for less flash which, with most .357's at night, could light up a whole neighborhood. The Pro-load's hollow point is large enough to drink a cup of tea out of or flick your cigarette ashes into. I don't see the design of this HP as over-penetrating but........who knows??

[WebHobbit]

Similarly, the old debate of fast vs. slow (ie too fast 110 dosen't penetrate enough, and in a snubbie its not fast enough)

Ya think?

Remington's 110 .357 load is listed as doing 1295 fps from a 4 incher. Even if you dropped 175 fps for a snub (probably less than that with a tight revolver) that would leave you with 1120 fps. With all that exposed lead at the tip expansion should be pretty much a given (unless plugged up bad).

Contrast this to a .38 Special +p version...those do around 995 fps from a 4 incher...from a 2 inch we've got a MAYBE it will maybe it won't.

Some would argue that the reduced velcoity of the .357 from 4 to 2 inch would make it penetrate "just the right amount".

[Marko Kloos]

My snub is a 3" M65, and it gets carried with .38 Special +P Silvertips or +P Golden Sabers. I like the .38 +P out of the M65 because of reduced recoil and enhanced controlability.

[Jeff OTMG]

RBCD for me, but I don't know if you actually gain anything by going to the .357 in such a short barrel. Possibly due to the higher allowed standard pressures in .357 when compared to .38 Spec. The 60 gr bullet helps to lighten recoil as well.

357 Mag. 60 gr. TFSP 1975 fps / 520 flbs (I think that is a 4" barrel)

[Gordon]

I don't live in an apartment so I like the Corbon 200 grain hard cast flat point. It clocks 1075 out of my 2 1/2" mod 19 and 1050 out of 2" Colt Lawman. It should go thru ANYTHING and the flat point doesnt skid on bone and cuts a clean, free bleeding wound. It is what I'd carry in bear country if I was carrying a .357. It will stop a 500 pund bear, a 1500lb bull or a 300lb sociopath IMHO.

[WebHobbit]

RBCD for me, but I don't know if you actually gain anything by going to the .357 in such a short barrel. Possibly due to the higher allowed standard pressures in .357 when compared to .38 Spec

Yeah you do. BIG TIME! This has been tested MANY times. The .357 is much faster in all weights and across all barrel lengths. It's actually more pronouced in the shorter barrels believe it or not.

[Dr.Rob]

?? a 110 clocking 1250.. that's not that different from a 115 9mm at 1170 (Silvertip from a BHP).. so whats the advantage of carrying a magnum at that point?

[s&w 24]

the best thing to do is take some or all of the loads listed and test them for accuracy. I used to lad my S&W 27 with 125 gr rem HP but when I tried win 145 gr Silvertips they grouped much better and muzzle flash was much lighter(less). After that I said "self I need to hit the target not scare it".

[denfoote]

It depends on the gun. My Taurus snub prefers the heavier bullet weights, specifically, the 158gr bullet. Soooooo, I plan to load mine with the 158gr SJHP. I want to run one more test, though. I bought a box of 150gr PMC starfire. I plan to fire it and see if it shoots to POA like the 158gr bullets do. :D

[WebHobbit]

?? a 110 clocking 1250.. that's not that different from a 115 9mm at 1170 (Silvertip from a BHP).. so whats the advantage of carrying a magnum at that point?

The Remington 110s are listed as 1295 fps from a 4 inch barrel. that's over 100 fps more than the 9mm SHP. Also I can't seem to find ANY Autos that fit my little hobbit hands right. My J-frame with boot-grips feel PERFECT and my L-frames are close to perfection (with round-butt Hogues or Boot grips). Also most autos tend to smack me in the head with brass. :(

[22luvr]

My 340SC seriously unseated every round of RBCD 60 gr TFSP, so much so that the nose of the next round jammed up against the forcing cone after each shot. I'm still a firm believer in these pre-fragmented rounds but I'd think twice about using them in something as light as a titanium/scandium revolver. Smith and Wesson didn't put "120 gr minimum" on the side of their lightweight revolvers for nothing; I found out the hard way.