THR

I've been a member here since 8-05. It seems since then that THR has become too restrictive with topics that are in line with THR's goals 1&2A rights. But are potentially minority oriented(I don't mean racist)and anti goverment service oriented.
Now I have become less and less pleased with the way THR seems to be restricting freedom of speech. Dictatorship if you will.
Does anyone else see what I see?JMO

We try to be fair in what stays open or closed, Remember this is Oleg's House you are talking in, You can have your freedom of speech but we have just as much the freedom to not have to hear what we do not want to hear. Oleg asked us, that is THR, to keep it in line with Firearms and the Right to keep them. He has asked some of us who he has come to know to Mod for him, I am not sure what threads you might be talking about, Kindly PM the moderators who have closed the threads you are concerned about and discuss it with them.

THR seems to be restricting freedom of speech.
While you may or may not have a point regarding restrictiveness (meaning I'm not going to address that either way) the 'freedom of speech' issue is a common error, and one that I think needs to be addressed.

THR is not public property. THR is a software program, that runs on some hardware - a server somewhere. That server is private property, therefore THR is private property. Therefore, the owner can set pretty much any standard for membership, participation, and behavior that he or she may wish. Freedom of Speech does not apply in any way, shape or form.

You just can't go cherry-picking the Constitution. That's the error our anti-gun opponents are always making. If we're going to support the Constitution, then we have to support the concept that property rights are paramount, and recognize those rights when we encounter them - such as here on THR.

http://www.thehighroad.org/code-of-conduct.html

Welcome to The High Road, an online discussion board dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership. It is the declared mission of this board to achieve and provide the highest quality of firearms discussion on the Internet, a standard set by the discussion board The Firing Line from 1998-2002.

Everyone is welcome to participate, regardless of political affiliation, gender, religion, nationality, or stance on gun ownership. We aim to respect every point of view, as long as it is presented in a polite and factual manner. You only need to provide a name and a valid email address to participate. We do not sell that information to anyone.

There are only a few house rules:

1.) All topics and posts must be related to firearms or civil liberties issues.
2.) Multiple user registrations are prohibited.
3.) As a family-friendly board, we ask that you keep your language clean. If you wouldn't say it in front of your dear old Grandma, you probably don't want to say it here.
4.) Spamming, trolling, flaming, and personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree with other members, even vehemently, but it must be done in a well-mannered form. Attack the argument, not the arguer.
5.) We cannot provide a comprehensive list of "Things Not To Say".Posts that are contrary to the above policies, or to the mission of The High Road, may be edited or deleted at our sole discretion. Membership may be revoked if such a step is deemed necessary by us. We're a private venture enabled by an all-volunteer staff. Please treat this venue as a polite discussion in a friend's home and respect the wishes of the hosts.
We have learned from bitter experience that discussions of abortion, religion and sexual orientation often degenerate into less-than-polite arguments or claims that "my God is better than your God". For this reason, we do not discuss such subjects on THR, and any threads dealing primarily with these subjects will be closed or deleted immediately. Threads which deal with other subjects, but which mention abortion, religion or sexual orientation as a side issue, may be allowed to continue, but will be closely scrutinized, and closed or deleted if they "cross the line".

A note on FREE SPEECH:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The First Amendment is greatly respected here on The High Road, as are all other Amendments that the Second Amendment defends. However, The High Road is private property and requests that members adhere to all forum policies. It is a contract agreed to by all who become members of The High Road. Those who break forum rules cannot invoke censorship or freedom of speech - a contract broken is a contract broken. If you do not like the rules of conduct or the acceptable topics, seek out a new venue to frequent or start your own board.

If you feel you can abide by these requests, we hope that you join us on The High Road. We invite you to share your expertise and enjoy the camaraderie. "Share what you know, learn what you don't."

Thank you,

The Staff

FWIW, I don't care what anybody's political views are. That doesn't mean I will tolerate rudeness and discourtesy and impolite language.

I also prefer to see rational thought based on facts and with some knowledge of history. That often seems to be in short supply.

Everybody has a right to an opinion. That in no way means that all opinions are worth the amount of bandwidth it takes for them to be read. Myabe "you can't fix stupid" but nobody has ever explained to me why I have to tolerate it.

:), Art

by Art, FWIW, I don't care what anybody's political views are. That doesn't mean I will tolerate rudeness and discourtesy and impolite language.

Art I'm not talking about rudeness,fowl language or personal attacks.
by PCGS65, Topics that are potentially minority oriented(I don't mean racist)and anti goverment service oriented.
That envolve our rights to bear arms.

by Card, THR is not public property. THR is a software program, that runs on some hardware - a server somewhere. That server is private property, therefore THR is private property. Therefore, the owner can set pretty much any standard for membership, participation, and behavior that he or she may wish. Freedom of Speech does not apply in any way, shape or form.
Card you must remember that without freedom of speech we cannot discuss our right to bear arms.:uhoh: or any other related topics.

Please refer to my earlier post of Rules of Conduct Please.




There are only a few house rules:

1.) All topics and posts must be related to firearms or civil liberties issues.

This includes, not limited to RBKA

We have learned from bitter experience that discussions of abortion, religion and sexual orientation often degenerate into less-than-polite arguments or claims that "my God is better than your God". For this reason, we do not discuss such subjects on THR, and any threads dealing primarily with these subjects will be closed or deleted immediately. Threads which deal with other subjects, but which mention abortion, religion or sexual orientation as a side issue, may be allowed to continue, but will be closely scrutinized, and closed or deleted if they "cross the line".

What happens is, we have a RKBA topic.

I am going to make one up for example.

We have a Purple Member of the Tofu Church, whom likes to have sex with the same sex as themselves, and this member goes to buy something at the store and sees a NO CCW sign.

Okay, what happens is, instead of assisting and getting clarifications of this Jurisdiction, if the Statues and Regs are legal, if the Signage falls into Legal Signage and all...

Off topic discussions begin about Purple, Tofu, Church, Sexual Orientation, and - the RKBA is totally forgotten and never addressed.

This is bad enough, not addressing the orginal concerns about Legal Regs and maybe RKBA efforts to correct, clarify or make postitive improvements.

Internet.

Real time communication tool it is, now has this post, for anyone , all over the world to read, and they do not have to be a registered member to do so.

Fence Sitters coming to THR read that and are more confused. "Maybe there is some truth about them Pro-Gun folks , and I am not sure I want to be a part of that kind of folks..."

Did we gain or lose a fence sitter?

Oh we have Anti-Gun folks reading us, in fact I personally believe some are registered members of THR.

Sarah Brady, IANA, and other Anti-Gun Folks :

"Hey everyone, go look at THR, they are doing more harm to RKBA and dividing themselves better than we are".

umm , just me mind you...

"Okay, here is the game plan, we need you twenty folks to all register at THR, and at 11pm, start trolling....

...now you other twenty folks, register, and play nice. "Pretend" you are one of "them" , just keep us posted at "Anti-Gun" and let us know if anything goes on behind the scenes...

...now you folks over there, play dumb and stupid, drive folks nuts like a newbie, repost for the 2000th time the same threads, never use the search engine, and question authority. Stir some stuff up, sabatage the THR site and give it a black eye..."

Now I am an invited guest in the THR "home".
As a guest I abide by the requests of THR.

If THR were to come visit me as a guest, THR would abide by any of my requests.

Just me perhaps, then again we did not have computers, Internet, 911, cell-phones, and TV was only black and white with rabbit ears and no cable, no remote or...

...we "did have" , I'd like to think these things I am about to type in bold , still exist as I do still believe in them and practice them...

Common Sense

Common Courtesy and Respect.

I'm sorry , this ain't rocket science.

Common Sense

Common Courtesy and Respect.

I mean if a neighbor asked they you not play kickball near her garden, you did not play kickball near the garden.

If the clothes were out on the clothesline, out of common sense, courtesy and respect, you did not play football , or anything else to get the clothes dirty.

Had nothing to do with "denying my rights" to be a kid. Nothing to do with not being able to express my 1A right to express " I wanna toss a dusty football".

I can Assure you My rights to Speech and Bear Arms were NOT infringed when a Mentor's wife asked us to to clean game on the back porch, or down at the shed where a well was. Asked us to clean the guns out back, and to remove our muddy boots and clothes on the back porch .

She did not want mud on her nice clean floors, she was trying to cook a meal and it made common sense, and it was courteous and respectful to abide by her/ their wishes.

Progress.

Not sure if we progressing forward or more backwards as technology advances.

Someone turn off that Server, Router, or just yank a patch cord out for about 5 minutes and lets see what happens...

PCGS65,
Can you provide a couple of links to what you are talking about?

Cripes. This is a publicly viewed board that requires that you agree to a few simple rules to become a poster. As a result, topics and individual members are subject to moderation. This in no way compromises "free speech" because it is in no way "free speech" to begin with. Is it free speech if I can't use the F word every three words in a post? No, but I agreed not to do so when I became a user, and thus I have no right to complain about that policy. Anyway, thats my short and sweet response.

Word.

True free speech probably does not exist for many - 1st Amendment or no!

What we say carries responsibilities and consequences. The limits on what ''goes'' and what does not will vary according to the company being kept - what works one place sure won't in another. Say the wrong thing in the wrong place and oops - might be trouble or some kickback - instant or delayed even.

Therefore - if that speech is within someone's ''house'' and certain limitations are imposed they have to be respected and abided by - or leave. In a sense, tho I don't like the word - Oleg's house is run as a benign dictatorship - meaning simply - his house, his rules and a team that try to keep things in line.

The interpretations put on some content that is posted may vary from mod to mod but the intention of us all is to see a smoothly operating and courtious board. Despite 2A and RKBA matters being in essence ''meat and potatoes'' for THR - some aspects can still tend to fall outside of what we see it being meant to be.

Add on too - the huge growth of the board such that moderation gets ever more difficult - thus sometimes meaning that a quick appraisal needs made on some matters, perhaps resulting in a closure or even more. Bottom line - it is impossible to please all the people, all of the time.

If folks saw some stuff that gets yanked before being seen much - they might well realize that the overall benefit to members of moderation is way more than they might think.

1.) All topics and posts must be related to firearms or civil liberties issues.
OK I realize this guys. That's why I joined THR a year ago. I live in Anti-Illinois. I hope you guys don't think I'm a troll from some anti site? Just for asking questions. I seems to me THR can and will close any topic for any reason known or unknown. There are many topics here that are not related to RKBA in any way.http://www.thehighroad.org/forumdisplay.php?f=13 I'm not disapproving of, because you can only skin a cat so many ways. I think it is good to have "off topics".
I'm on 4 other sites and a moderator on one of them. I don't want to mention the sites it might be considered spam. Oh and I can assure you none of them are anti-RKBA.
Anyway as I stated earlierby PCGS65, Topics that are potentially minority oriented(I don't mean racist)and anti goverment service oriented.
. Are some topics closed because they can become against THR rules? To me it seems it's the Mods responsibility to monitor the threads so that might not happen? I know it can't be monitored 100% of the time(I'm a mod too). I hardly see any warnings ect. then all of a sudden "CLOSED" with no explanation? Topics that IMO seemed very in line with THR's goal.

XB if I post links to specific topics I know where that's going. You guys will find one thing in said topic then say see this is against THR rules. Show me one topic that doesn't have "one thing" against the rules.

I'm not try to tell you mods or THR how to run this site. I'm just stating the fact that THR seems to have become much more stringent since a year ago in a political way. My comments here are not meant to be viewed in a negative way towards THR. Just some feedback from a concerned member.
Yea I know if I don't like it leave.........Take care guys.:)

PCGS65, it seems to me that you posed the root question and then took nothing from the discussion, others talking past you, and you ending as if nothing had been offered to you.

I agree that inconsistency in letting OT discussions run creates more than confusion. They are either okay or they aren't in my opinion, else it is all very arbitrary, defying explanation.

What may have been noticed "over the past year" is an effort to be more disciplined. The change should be viewed as positive, not negative.

I'm sorry that you will not provide the links.
I was actually interested in better understanding what you were talking about before I responded, not in picking apart your argument.
I, and other moderators care a great deal about what you, and other members think. Without a diverse membership, this forum is lessened.
Most threads that are closed have been monitored and discussed by the moderators at length prior to closing them.
If you want to argue your point in the abstract, have at it. Just do not expect concrete answers.

XB perhaps you've answered my concerns. I think as long as "topics" are addressed before closing that is what I am looking for. Now I'm not saying all topics are closed without concern it just seems some of them are. IMO Especially without a reason stated when closed. I must admit most reasons for closing a topic are quite obvious. But some I just scratch my head thinking "why did they close this one?" "I thought it was very good" but opinions vary.
Thank you mods for your time/concern.
Jim

I think as long as "topics" are addressed before closing that is what I am looking for.

Do you mean allowed to be discussed, as if any topic was essentially okay, i.e. cannot be rejected, or do you mean with comment from the mod who is closing the thread?

There are some topics that will be closed ASAP. These include those with links to porn and viagra, as well as inflammatory political and religious topics.

Other borderline threads are given time to see how the thread will progress. If the thread can stay on topic with the posters not attacking each other, it stays open. The best occurance is for members to police themselves. When that occurs, it is heartening.

Right now I am being taken to task in a thread. I believe my point to be correct, and my opponents point off base. Rather than moderate the thread myself, I have asked for independent moderation, as would any other member who was not a moderator. That is only fair. I will not close the thread myself, nor will I ask for it to be closed. If it is closed, then it will be because other moderators agreed it should be, not because of me.

To date I have closed a few train wreck threads since I became a moderator. My procedure is to send PMs if necessary and post a warning in the thread indicating it is being monitored, and everyone should think before they post. If the train wreck continues and the thread cannot get back on track I close it down. Right or wrong, that's my procedure, and I feel it is very fair.

PCGS, threads about minorities almost always wind up having all-inclusive "they" stuff that's derogatory to an entire group. I've seen threads that were all fine and dandy in tone and content; I'd go away for a few hours, as had other mods, apparently--and racial garbage abounded.

So, I tend to draw and shoot fairly quickly. Maybe too much so, but that's the way it goes...

Art