Missouri CCL Bill minimum age 23?


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FW
May 9, 2003, 11:45 PM
Missouri seems to be closer than ever to getting concealed carry.

The news sources are reporting the current bill which is going to the governor will require applicants to be at least 23 years of age. I haven't seen it the actual bill which I did look up, but it may not be updated yet. Would anyone have a source of the actual current bill that would have this in it?

This bill is far from ideal as far as many are concerned; there are a lot of restrictions and hoops to jump through for applicants. While it is better than nothing, I'm having trouble understanding how an arbitrary minimum age of 23 was decided.

Being in my 30's this certainly wouldn't affect me, but I find this rather interesting because I and many others have served four years of active duty prior to my 22nd birthday.

This is worse than the old-enough-to-die-for-your-country-not-old-enough-to-drink-a-beer argument concerning "minors" in the military. Many people have college degrees by that time too. There are very young police officers too.

If less than 23 is too "immature", wouldn't it make sense to raise the drinking age, the driving age, the voting age, etc.? Could a court overturn this?

Perhaps this was okay with the legislature since it didn't affect any one of them individually. Isn't this similar to was happen in many states when they started requiring hunting safety for hunting permits? People born before a certain time were "grandfathered" in, interestingly, that magical date was after the birthdate of everyone in the legislature.

What would stop them from putting a maximum age on something like this and justifying is by saying the average 90 year old lacks good coordination, eye sight, memory, etc. and would be "dangerous" with a firearm?

Your thoughts please.

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Gray Peterson
May 10, 2003, 12:20 AM
The age is 23 for the CCL in MO in the final bill.

The reason being is that one legislator threatened to vote against it without the age limit being at 23 (the loss of just one legislator would have prevented a veto override majority in the Senate).

However, a further cursory reading of the law would suggest that all out of state permits are valid, so you could get a permit at 21 from Maine, or Florida, or wherever, and carry, even as a MO resident.

F4GIB
May 10, 2003, 12:31 AM
This is one of the unintended consequences of NRA's agreement to support the New Mexico bill with an age 25 requirement. Apparently someone in NRA-ILA thinks Bill Richardson might be President some day, so to curry his favor, they caved. Expect to see NRA's mistake repeated in other states.

The Democraps in Minnesota constantly bleated that NRA had agreed to this or that POS in Texas so it should be done here as well.

Dan Shapiro
May 10, 2003, 12:47 AM
Humm. Why is the handgun age 21 anyway? Or how about the legal drinking age? Shouldn't you be able to do everything at 18? I mean...you can vote and die for this country (you can at 17 too, right?). Why can't you have a beer? Or, buy a handgun?

Bumping the age up for CCW seems just as wrong.

Gray Peterson
May 10, 2003, 12:53 AM
Why is the handgun age 21 anyway?

Because the Gun Control Act of 1968 was passed 3 years before the 26th amendment.

The drinking age was raised due to Senator Frank Lautenburg.

Dan Shapiro
May 10, 2003, 01:51 AM
Not to sound like a child, but why? What was/is the justification?

Gray Peterson
May 10, 2003, 02:34 AM
I thought I already explained it?

Well, to give you a full explanation, the issue is that the right to vote was only guaranteed to those 21 years of age or older before 1971. The draft age, however, was 18. During the wars that this country had fought, like World War 2, and then Vietnam, there was a movement to lower the age to vote to 18, because it was believed that the soldiers who were sent to battle had the right to vote for the politicians who send them to battle or not.

It didn't get anywhere until the Vietnam War. Congress attempted to lower the nationwide age to 18 by the 1970 amendment to the voting rights act, but the state of Oregon fought it, saying that the Congress had no right to set an age for state elections. They won.

It put into doubt the process because it would have required two different sets of ballots, voter registrations, and so on, so Congress passed the 26th amendment, and it was ratified by 38 states in 2 and a half months. Contrast this to the 27th amendment, which took nearly 203 years to get all 38 states.

A lot of states lowered their ages to 18 for everything. They were called, in the Florida term, 'Disability of Nonage'. Florida passed a law in 1977 to lower all the ages of majority to 18 from 21. A lot of other states followed.

Congress did not lower the age to buy a handgun to 18 (Congress never rolls back ANYTHING).

Then, a group called MADD came into being. Their biggest gripe was that there was an epidemic of drunk driving by "young persons" that could only be solved by raising the age to 21. They got their wish through federal legislation. That failed to stave off the young people drunk driving, so they continue to call for oppresive laws against drunk driving and teens.

Their arguments mirror much of the anti-gunners language and vitriole against gun owners. That the Congress "must do something to combat this scourge of (disapproved act here)".

MADD has lost it's power since then. But the laws still stay on the books until challenged.

Standing Wolf
May 10, 2003, 05:20 PM
Frankly, it seems to me the Second Amendment is the only authorization any law-abiding American needs to keep and bear arms.

Shaggy
May 10, 2003, 07:13 PM
I'm all for making everything 18. That would include no drivers license until you are 18. But the upside, you can drink and own a handgun at 18. :D

IMO, you are either an adult or not. We can argue all day about how much sense and 18 year old has about anything. The same can be said for most 23 year olds. If they are worried about young hotheads having CCW's....well, they better make it 30.

I never realized how smart my parents really were until I was about 25-26.....

Jim March
May 10, 2003, 07:48 PM
Somebody age 21 - 24 in New Mexico needs to file suit on equal protection grounds, ASAP.

bogie
May 12, 2003, 12:53 PM
Guys, pass it, then after the whole "dodge city blood in the streets" bit fails to come to pass, change it. It's better to have something than it is to have nothing.

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