"High Powered Rifle" attack on college


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gbelleh
May 9, 2003, 04:58 PM
Many shots said to have been fired, at least 2 injured...

Hostages? In the Peter B. Lewis building at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland.

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ElToro
May 9, 2003, 05:27 PM
machine gun ??? doubtful... didnt Ohio just pass CCW legislation ?

Witnesses said the gunman was firing indiscriminantly.

"He was just walking, aiming his guns and firing.


nice editing on the story I read.. didnt use and closed quotes... anyway seems like the 2 statements are contradictory ?

hope they kill this guy to save us some money and my prayers are for the injured people

gbelleh
May 9, 2003, 05:27 PM
It's all over the cable news now.

They're throwing the words "assault rifle" and "machine gun" around. Not much info yet.

gbelleh
May 9, 2003, 05:29 PM
No, Ohio didn't pass CCW legislation.

DigitalWarrior
May 9, 2003, 05:35 PM
The facts will not matter. This will be used as an excuse to renew the ban. It will not matter that the ban didn't prevent this.

It is awful that the government created a safety-free zone in this school.

I pray to god that somebody is armed in violation of the law and shoots this psychopath dead.

Kinsman
May 9, 2003, 05:51 PM
Just the ammo the anti-civil-rights crowd needs.....can't wait to see whether the guns were legally owned or not....

Henry Bowman
May 9, 2003, 06:05 PM
The major news outlets are saying he has a "machine gun" but attributing that info (and using an inflamatory headline) to a "LeKisha Spencer" age 28.

Bet you $5 she doesn't know a machine gun from a _____ (you fill in the blank with anything you want). Hope she is wrong. :uhoh:

CBS is saying "high powered rifle" and just quoting Ms Spenser on the "machine gun."

ninenot
May 9, 2003, 06:07 PM
It's a Fully Automatic Bolt-Action Break-Top, 12 ga. Caliber

DigitalWarrior
May 9, 2003, 06:30 PM
Damn it Ninenot! My initial reaction was "Really?". Gotta watch for us newbies! Some newbies (myself specifically) are REALLY dense, so use the <sarcasm> <\sarcasm> HTML tags to make it incredibly clear!

By the way I now know what google returns when you search for "Fully Automatic Bolt-Action Break-Top, 12 ga. Caliber".
:rolleyes:

Cant believe I bought that for a full minute!

El Tejon
May 9, 2003, 06:30 PM
How would this impact the VCCA of '94's sunset?:confused:

If anything this supports the sunset, the "ban" was already in effect and did not stop it.

Henry Bowman
May 9, 2003, 06:38 PM
El Tejon, you use too much logic. Logic does not apply here.:banghead:

BTW - Local tv news is reporting:

"It's believed the man barricaded himself with a semiautomatic machine gun inside the building. "

Anything for the cause of ignorance! :cuss:

Henry Bowman
May 9, 2003, 06:46 PM
20-30 LEO's have gone in. The Vice-Provost of the school says that counselors are available. :rolleyes: No kidding!

Frohickey
May 9, 2003, 06:56 PM
They said it was a black male, in camoflaged clothing, with a camoflaged helmet, with a backpack and a rifle.

I bet its not a machine gun.

Frohickey
May 9, 2003, 07:33 PM
http://a799.g.akamai.net/3/799/388/82310f3b236098/www.msnbc.com/news/1894239.jpg


and the caption.

UnknownSailor
May 9, 2003, 09:14 PM
Coincedence, isn't it, how the AWB renewal was submitted yesterday, and now this happens?

I was afraid something like this would happen......

Please, everyone at THR be on the alert. We can't afford this stuff.

/me tries hard to not fly off the "conspiracy nut" handle

Atticus
May 9, 2003, 09:35 PM
Let's all just be grateful that a law abiding citizen wasn't armed. He or she might have shot the maniac before he could do any killing. Thanks Mr. Taft :( :mad: :( :mad: :fire:

HKcenterMass
May 9, 2003, 09:57 PM
Hell yeah Atticus! I'm 15 mins away from that school, if I were there, my .45 would be at home collecting dust. Thanks governer Shaft, I have no right to protect my self from an armed assailant in Ohio.

Shaggy
May 9, 2003, 10:08 PM
Let's all just be grateful that a law abiding citizen wasn't armed. He or she might have shot the maniac before he could do any killing. Thanks Mr. Taft

It wouldn't matter anyway. The bills that have been passed have had so many victim disarmament zones in them(schools and universities being on the list) that even if we ever get a CCW bill signed, carry in Ohio will be impractical at best. It's a freakin joke.

tyme
May 9, 2003, 10:24 PM
Wow. That's a pretty upsetting picture.
Attached here in case MSNBC pulls it.

Anyone think the maniac is still around?
"He had a machine gun, book bag, camouflage shirt, military green hat, white pants and a book bag," LeKisha Spencer, 28, who works in a first-floor cafeteria. "I didn't see his face." "He was just walking, aiming his guns and firing."(1,3)

Graduate student Murat Tasan said he saw police running toward the building while jogging by about 4 p.m. He said he heard what sounded like machine gun fire shortly later.(2)

Dick Bennett, the executive director of development at the Weatherhead School of Management, described the attack.
Bennett described the shots as automatic fire, going off in "fairly rapid succession." They sounded for more than an hour, before calming about 5:10 p.m. Around 5:40 p.m., more shots were fired.(1)
Either the maniac is gone or the police shot him at 5:40. There are some reports of gunshots around 7pm but only in the msnbc article.

(1) http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/05/09/university.gunfire/
(2) http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=13&ID=99092&r=0
(3) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,86489,00.html

BowStreetRunner
May 9, 2003, 11:54 PM
News Story (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030510/ap_on_re_us/university_shooting&cid=519&ncid=716)

Just what we need.
What posses people to do this?
now there will be more calls to ban more guns im sure
too bad Ohio doesnt have CCW yet - but wait, the school would probably make it against the rules....who needs to defend themselves at a college?
My prayers go out to the victims and their families
BSR

BowStreetRunner
May 10, 2003, 12:34 AM
oooops!
i started another thread on this before i saw this one
my bad
its too bad that OH doesnt have CCW yet....even if they did im sure the right to "academic freedom" would supercede the right to self defense on college campuses
BSR

2nd Amendment
May 10, 2003, 12:36 AM
Oh how nice. And in camouflage, no less. Wonder how much this one depleted the coffers of HCI, Schumer, etc. And yes, that is a specific accusation. Coincidence is getting stretched a bit thin, ya know.

Tamara
May 10, 2003, 12:45 AM
In an official victim disarmament zone. Quelle surprise. :banghead:

westex
May 10, 2003, 12:59 AM
On my local 10PM news the "high powered rifle" or "machinegun" as first reported has now morphed into a shotgun. Potato gun, pellet gun then BB gun? Media experts.:mad:

Zundfolge
May 10, 2003, 12:59 AM
Oh how nice. And in camouflage, no less. Wonder how much this one depleted the coffers of HCI, Schumer, etc. And yes, that is a specific accusation. Coincidence is getting stretched a bit thin, ya know.

Just a few months ago I would have told you go get rid of the tin foil hat.

But now, I'm starting to wonder.

2nd Amendment
May 10, 2003, 01:16 AM
Well, I'm expected by some to believe a whole laundry list of things our federal government has done for the Bush personal fortune regarding the war in Iraq. Believing that a few politicians and their lap dogs wouldn't have any qualms about offing some nobodies in fly-over country every so often to further their political agenda here at home isn't much of a stretch after that.

Intune
May 10, 2003, 01:22 AM
Demonize at all costs. What’s a low powered rifle? Anyone care to stand in front of one? How about just a rifle. Sheesh.

How many hours ‘till police went in after him? With unarmed potential victims everywhere and shots fired and then more shots fired? Maybe it’s just me but I’d rather have the means to protect myself instead of relying on “rescue” at leisure.
:barf: One of these days someone who knows what he is doing is going to enter a "gun free" zone and it is gonna get really ugly really quick.

Gatsu
May 10, 2003, 02:19 AM
First I heard it was a "sub-machinegun" then a little later an "assault rifle". :banghead:

WonderNine
May 10, 2003, 02:38 AM
Here's a snippet from CNN: :http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/05/09/university.gunfire/index.html

Officials had no details on the gunman, but Michael Moore, a security guard on campus, said police told him the shooter was not a student.

"He had a machine gun, book bag, camouflage shirt, military green hat, white pants and a book bag," eyewitness LeKisha Spencer, 28, told The Associated Press. "He was just walking, aiming his guns and firing."


.............................:scrutiny:

Where's that tinfoil hat? I know it's around here somewhere.... :uhoh:

John G
May 10, 2003, 03:12 AM
He wore military-style camoflauge clothing? Well, obviously that should be banned. No civilian has a need for that, and this man used it to kill!

WonderNine
May 10, 2003, 03:15 AM
The camoflauge clothing that killed those people should be banned!

gun-fucious
May 10, 2003, 03:56 AM
y'all are 10 years behind the curve:
http://www.survival.com.mx/gunrack/hci.html
BANNING OF MILITARY ACCOUTREMENTS

Essential to the Neanderthal gun culture are the typical military clothing, camouflage, pouches, boots and other combat gear. They euphemistically refer to this as "militaria." Elimination of the future sale of these items will cripple the culture of violence well into the 21st century.

TechBrute
May 10, 2003, 04:50 AM
white pants That's sure not tactical, or military, or whatever this dude was trying for.

*8*
May 10, 2003, 05:03 AM
http://www.msnbc.com/news/911640.asp?0cv=CB10

....Police said the gunman — a man in his 50s who was wearing a wig, a World War II-era Army helmet and a bulletproof vest — was seized about 11 p.m. after officers searched the ornate five-story building room by room. He carried at least two guns....

Prolly some nut job..


....Sixty people were herded into a ‘safe room’ in the building, guarded by police and the FBI, as officers searched for the gunman....

LOL, what a bunch of sheep.. glad to finish and out of college.

WonderNine
May 10, 2003, 05:24 AM
....Police said the gunman — a man in his 50s who was wearing a wig, a World War II-era Army helmet and a bulletproof vest...

Another reason to carry 9mm FMJ or 7.62X25mm :D

Aiming between the eyes is always the best bet though if you are close enough :uhoh:

*8*
May 10, 2003, 05:36 AM
..7.62X25mm..


I agree.. :D



*8*

LiquidTension
May 10, 2003, 06:08 AM
At least he wasn't a better shot. Like somebody else said, it'll be really bad when someone that practices tries something like this. Fortunately for the bad guy, schools are "safe zones" and therefore he doesn't have to be a good shot because nobody could return fire anyway :rolleyes:

It's almost to the point where law abiding permit holders feel the need to carry on school grounds...

BowStreetRunner
May 10, 2003, 10:26 AM
well think about it, this shooting, the shooting at the Univ of Texas in the 60s or 70s (way before my time)
people deserve the right to self protection EVERYWHERE
now that the libs will probably call to ban whatever "high powered rifle" the man wa using, future carzy guys of this ilk will just have to resort to going out and buying a nice 12 gauge loaded with 00buck....and as bad a shot as this guy was that probably would have been much more deadly
BSR

gbelleh
May 10, 2003, 10:46 AM
They're saying he had a Tec-9.

One spokesman guy said a "Tec-9 machine gun type gun."

He was an ex-student and ex-employee who recently, unsuccessfully tried to sue the school.

This doesn't look good as far as average people's perception of gun owners (if the guns were legally owned).

I wonder how many people who were there will now have a new appreciation for the right to defend themselves, and how many will forever vilify guns because of their experience?

Navy joe
May 10, 2003, 10:50 AM
Can someone tell me what is so wrong with that picture? The one officer is aiming his shotgun over the hood and his major faux pas is not correctly using cover. The officer to the right is behind the squad car door. The shotgun is not being pointed at his head, just a trick of the lens foreshortening everything so it looks that way.

Of course you could argue that what's wrong is they are behind the car instead of in the building, but as evidenced once again by SAWT's lethargic entry, their lives are worth more than the one's bleeding out inside. These guys are ordinary patrol cops so you don't expect that of them as long as the DDDs are there though.

Tamara
May 10, 2003, 12:21 PM
Threads merged...

Coronach
May 10, 2003, 12:44 PM
I'm gonna note this once. Please do not hijack this thread into a debate on the merits of the following point. We can do that elsewhere if you really wish to discuss the matter. ;) But:

This is an excellent demonstration of the necessity of having rifles available to patrol officers and having armored vehicles at the disposal of tactical teams.

One rifleman and a 6-story building with lots of windows can make mounting a rescue operation rather dicey indeed.

Mike

Tamara
May 10, 2003, 12:47 PM
This is an excellent demonstration of the necessity of having rifles available to patrol officers

It's an even better demonstration of the necessity of having pistols available to college students and faculty. ;)

Coronach
May 10, 2003, 01:57 PM
It's an even better demonstration of the necessity of having pistols available to college students and faculty.Agreed. Absolutely. We'll see if the Ohio General Assembly is able to grasp the simple logic of this, or if we must pin our hopes on the Ohio Supreme Court doing the right thing. :rolleyes:

Mike

Zundfolge
May 10, 2003, 02:04 PM
One spokesman guy said a "Tec-9 machine gun type gun."



Tony Snow on Fox News just said he had "two 9mm hanguns"

45cal Suppository
May 10, 2003, 08:16 PM
The latest from CNN says he had two handguns, a Cobray and a Ruger.

Handgun, high powered rifle, machine gun, they're all the same to the media....

Worthless SOB's

pittspilot
May 10, 2003, 08:40 PM
Some interesting things about the shooter.

1) His name was Biswanath Halder (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&e=4&u=/ap/20030510/ap_on_re_us/university_shooting). He was armed with two handguns. No machine guns, and apparently no "high powered" rifles.

2) Here is the shooters homepage (http://junior.apk.net/~halder/). Here is one of the more interesting pages. (http://junior.apk.net/~halder/iraq.html)

What inferences can you make about this person?

Engineer
May 10, 2003, 09:21 PM
Apparently the guy got his Masters here in 1999 and was looking for someone he knew in the building. Definitely pretty crazy on campus here yesterday, but things seemed to have calmed down. Most of the students are gone as yesterday was the last day of finals. Watching the local news, it was angering to watch how the weapon grew from being a pistol and a shotgun to an assault rifle, to an automatic assault rifle to a machine gun and then several non-sensical permutations and combinations of the "scary" words they could come up with. Turns out to be just a Tec-9 and Ruger 9mm pistol. I guess when you don't have any facts, all you can do is speculate... :rolleyes:

falconer
May 10, 2003, 09:34 PM
Scary stuff indeed. The whole thing went down a whole half block from my cousin's dorm.

First words out of my mouth while he and I were watching this, "and yet the OHio .gov seems to think crime doesn't happen on college campuses so we shouldn't be able to carry there [HB12]".

BowStreetRunner
May 10, 2003, 09:35 PM
so now he had 2 handguns?
well is that convenient that the thing most people will remember is the first headline
"high power rifle attack"
im not going to bash the people in the attack who came outside the building and cried "high powered rifle! machine gun!" because it is their choic eto know nothing about guns....people dont really on them for news....but people rely on the news media for accurate reporting, and as much as the media likes to protray violence in the news, one would think that they would learn something about firearms....or maybe i shouldnt be suprised
BSR

Nightfall
May 10, 2003, 10:27 PM
It couldn't possibly have been a TEC-9. The AWB banned that, remember? :rolleyes:

Engineer
May 10, 2003, 10:47 PM
It couldn't possibly have been a TEC-9. The AWB banned that, remember?


Yeah, the Ruger was probably more reliable than the Tec-9.

Greybeard
May 11, 2003, 07:04 AM
Glock Talk still down this a.m. I've been wanting to see promised follow-up post by a cop who was in the building in Cleveland standoff. He said BG wore body armor and .223 rounds to gut are what eventually put him down. I must travel today, but some of you may want to check in on "cop talk" at www.glocktalk.com

Apple a Day
May 11, 2003, 08:36 PM
What kind of armor was he wearing? Was it serious kevlar or an old frag vest? The news mentioned that he was wearing an old steel pot helmet, which you can get in scads of catalogues and such. I was just wondering if the vest was the same level of gear or a step higher.
I trust the media evaluation of "body armor" as much as I trust their use of "assault rifle".

foghornl
May 12, 2003, 12:54 PM
I have heard "machine gun" automatic weapon" assault rifle", and this morning on CH 19 (WOIO-TV) '2 high-powered handguns'. But NO clear desciption of make/model

I feel that I am fairly well informed about weapons in general, but what is a "high-powered handgun"? ? ?

And the Banshee Chorus of Gun Control is already wailing.....

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