New toy: AR15 or M1A?


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jame
May 10, 2003, 12:17 AM
I KNOW that they are completely different rifles, but I'm saving up for a high dollar gun. ($1000-1250 or so) I don't spend that kind of money easily, as I'm a tightwad, but here's my current situation.

I live on an acreage, about 5 miles from any metro environment. My closest neighbor is about a mile away. Coyotes and meth lab cookers are my only (rare) risk. I'm on a hard surfaced road, so offense from the back of my property from the human kind is only a remote possiblity. Safe retreat makes more sense to me.

Coyotes are a more realistic PITA. I live in central Iowa, and keeping my pheasants around and abundant is important to me.

I currently own an SKS-restocked with a Choate stock, and resighted with a Williams Firesight front, and peep rear sight. It's a cool rig. My precision rifle is an H&R SSB single shot .223 that can punch 1/2" groups at 100 yards any time I demand. Ammo is cheap for both.

I'm looking at an M1A because my Dad carried an M1 in Korea, (nostalgia) and I've read great things about them. A big rifle makes sense.

I'm looking at an AR15 because everyone seems to believe that they're the best thing going for an all around rifle.
Versatility makes sense.

I know that many will tell me to buy both, but I don't have 2 large to spend on a whim.

Which one and how do I justify my purchase?

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Blain
May 10, 2003, 12:21 AM
Get an M14 with ALL USGI parts!!!! Don't get a new commercial Springfield, they SUCK!

TaurusGL
May 10, 2003, 12:51 AM
I just shot my new RRA 20" Ar-15 for the first time today and at 50 yards my worst group was the size of a quarter and the best was smaller than a dime. One question though. Do you eat the coyotes you shoot? I was always taught that you don't shoot anything you aren't going to eat.

MAKOwner
May 10, 2003, 12:59 AM
Buy a good post ban AR15 like a Bushmaster for $800ish and use the left over coin for mags/ammo. You'd come out way ahead by my thinking. Not that the M1A wouldn't be nice either, but it is going to be significantly more money than a postban AR. www.cdnninvestments.com had some Bushmasters for pretty good prices I believe. www.aimsurplus.com did have them, but they are out of stock. A decent local gunshow should have some too...

GunNut
May 10, 2003, 01:04 AM
Makowner, you beat me to it. I was just typing....


Get an AR...spend $800 or so on something of quality, and spend the rest on ammo, magazines and accessories.




Do you eat the coyotes you shoot? I was always taught that you don't shoot anything you aren't going to eat.

Good thing we didn't send you to Iraq...:D

Coyotes are just large prairie dogs, a nuisance...

Steve

jame
May 10, 2003, 01:13 AM
To answer TaurusGL's question:
I was taught to eat what I shoot when I'm hunting for food, and to kill predators and invaders to my personal space. Defense is reluctant, but delivery is unquestionable. I've already lost one "barn cat", and the mice are invading at a higher rate than I have previously experienced. The next one sighted is the next one in the sights.

I appreciate the input on the AR15.

MAKOwner...you make a good case. Thanks.

Keep 'em coming.

TechBrute
May 10, 2003, 04:15 AM
I was always taught that you don't shoot anything you aren't going to eat. It's more like you shouldn't shoot things without reason. When you live in the sticks, you shoot anything on your property that moves and can threaten you.

Mannlicher
May 10, 2003, 07:40 AM
I would get another NEW Springfield M1A in a heartbeat. The one I have now, a Loaded model made in 1999 is one sweet shooting rifle. Totally reliable so far (over 3K of the Portuguese mil surp ammo), groups under two real inches, (not gun chat inches) shooting from my hind legs, and is easy to maintain.

Others opinions will vary, ( but mine is correct) ;)

Lone_Gunman
May 10, 2003, 09:01 AM
TaurusGL,

You have displayed an amazing degree of misunderstanding about what should be shot, and what should not be shot.

Food is only one reason to shoot something, and to be honest, I have probably shot more things for other reasons.

If a criminal breaks into your house, and you shoot him, do you intend to eat him also? That will be rather hard to explain in court, dont you think?

45Badger
May 10, 2003, 09:06 AM
M1A, all the way. Cool factor is much greater than plasticgun. Re-sell value also better. Just my $.02

OTOH, lots of folks seem to like ARs, and it would work for what you're talking about. So would a nice bolt gun.

TaurusGL
May 10, 2003, 09:59 AM
I read something in the paaper not long ago about how famers were killing coyotes and that was causign all sort of other varmints to pop up because the coyote doesn't eat them any more. I do understand killing them if the truly threaten your family. No, I wouldn't eat some guy I shot breaking into my house because scum like that doesen't deserve to be eaten.... I won't eat pigs either, never shot one never will. pigs are filthy creatures.

Chipperman
May 10, 2003, 12:23 PM
Pigs are actually a lot cleaner than most people think, when allowed to be. They stink, but that's not that same thing.

"If a criminal breaks into your house, and you shoot him, do you intend to eat him also? That will be rather hard to explain in court, dont you think?"

Although, they would have a hard time prosecuting you with no physical evidence. :evil:
Burgler? What burgler?

BusMaster007
May 10, 2003, 12:42 PM
I am planning a way to obtain either the Armalite or it's division of Eagle Arms' AR10 in .308.
AR15.com is also contracting with ArmaLite for their 3rd in a series of 5 Special Edition rifles. The rifle will be an ArmaLite AR10.

Check out the Advertisements link; PDF The Eagle Arms AR10! & The Eagles Have Landed!
I'm looking into the E10A4BM, and have almost made up my mind to get that one. I'm wrestling with the idea of getting the rifle sooner than the Special Edition would be available. Patience is not one of my stronger character points...:)

The link is for Adobe Acrobat, so give it moment to load:

www.armalite.com/library/advertisements/EagleAr10AdFinal.pdf


This one is to Eagle Arms; go to Rifles:

http://www.eagle-arms.com/index-old1.htm


If you go to the Eagle Arms site Links, you can access ArmaLite.
ArmaLite has an Advertisement section, PDF, that has good info on it. That's where I found the Eagle Arms "E10" ad.
Good Luck on your quest.

tiberius
May 10, 2003, 01:29 PM
Get an M14 with ALL USGI parts!!!! Don't get a new commercial Springfield, they SUCK!

Perhaps I'm just ignorant but The above statement brings 2 questions to mind:

1. In what way do Springfield Inc's M1A's "SUCK"?

2. How does one acquire a USGI M14 receiver?

I have been very pleased with my M1A, but I am now very disapointed to learn that it his sucked all this time and I didn't even know it.

Gary G23
May 10, 2003, 01:38 PM
I have owned two M1A's and about eight AR's. I would definitely get an AR. I prefer Bushmaster.

aerod1
May 10, 2003, 06:09 PM
I agree with Tiberius and Mannlicher. I have a commercial Springfield M1A loaded model. I don't have a problem with them.
Great guns!

Jim Hall

TheLastBoyScout
May 10, 2003, 06:39 PM
How long is the longest shot you can realistically see your self needing to take?

If the answer is less than 300 yards, then grab the AR without thinking about the M1A.

If the answer is less then 500, more than 300 think about it...

If the answer is more than 500 what are you shooting that far away? If it's varmints, you're probably still good with the AR. If it's bigger, than its time for the .308.

Are you set on an M1A?

With that kind of money, I'd sooner get a DSA FAL or PTR-91 than an M1A. Good normal cap mags are too expensive for the M1A. M1A mags are like $50, FAL and PTR-91 mags are like $5-20.

For the record, I have a Bushmaster AR15 , because I rarely get to shoot further than 100 yards and have never yet gotten a chance to shoot past 300.

Edit: Pricing Info: My setup came out to $1190
850 rifle + tax
160 for 12 British 30 rounders shipped from rguns.net
180 for 1000 rounds of Lake City XM 193

Peetmoss
May 10, 2003, 10:04 PM
Get an AR. IMHO it will serve all your purposes extreamly well. Plus it is a blast to shoot, ammo is pretty darn cheap for a rifle,full cap mags are reasonable around 20 to 30 a piece, they are also pretty accurate. I put together a Rock River Arms AR for around 750. Bought a complete upper and a complete lower.

ON a side note everyone who has put a few rounds down range with it walked away with a big smile on there face. The only complaint I have heard is that it is heavy, and it sure is. If you deciede to go with an AR and you don't want a heavy rifle stay away from the HBAR's.

M1911
May 11, 2003, 07:38 PM
New toy: AR15 or M1A?Yes.

Get both. I've got 2 AR15s, 1 AR10, and 1 M1A. All nice rifles.

BDM
May 11, 2003, 08:45 PM
go with the AR easier to service,parts are cheaper and out of a bushmaster bullet weights from 55gr to 77gr work well bothe rounds will work well against animals 2 to 4 legged although its not a bear or moose gun the AR is all around more what you need easy to carry outdoors or in the farm house and on earlier posting of M1as suck Ill say this the receivers are made in brazille and assembled here and the receivers are cast I prefer forgings and the springfield is not to mil spec GI parts would have to be fit for a real good 14 ive seen armscorp receivers for around as little as $600 as much as $800 for the money it would take to do a 14 right you can have a bushmaster with money for mags,sights ammo and other gadgets more apropriate for where you live and the AR can be shot fast and accurate with little recoil wich means you can bring it to bear more quickly than a 14,just my .02

Med 10
May 11, 2003, 08:51 PM
Hmmm, lets see. 308 or 223 for a non military/tactical situation involving long shots in open rural area.

308. no-brainer.


I would get an economical boltgun/scope combo in 308 for about $500.00 and put together an AR for about $650.00 and have the best of both worlds for the price of one M1-A.

BDM
May 11, 2003, 10:38 PM
.223 evn out of a 14.5 inch barrel is good out to 450 yds about 600 for a full size and the .223 shoots flater and quicker follow up shots if I were worried about large animals getting the jump on me a .45 long colt would be good close up and with hollow points I would say a .223 is a more devastating round than a .308 im sure if you have to defend yourself agains animals of the 2 legged variety I doubt you would have to take a shot over 200 yds even in a rural area unless they are in a dug in posistion on your property shooting up your house from 4 or 5 hundred yds away a most unlikely scenario if you have to engage targets bent on your demize if you can see them and they can see you the 14 is not needed unless you want a rifle you can also hunt with then id say the advantage goes to .308

XxAR10xX
May 12, 2003, 01:42 PM
How about an AR10 for the best of both worlds? It has the big punch of .308 and all the versatility of the AR family. Out of all the toys I own, the AR10 is far an away my favorite. Either way you'll probably want to purchase both AR and M1A eventually.

Sven
May 14, 2003, 01:22 PM
I'm building an M1A from the receiver up so as to:

1) avoid finding myself working for Springfield's QA department
2) save money (no, really... )
3) do it the way I want (Krieger barrel, McMillan stock, NM sights...)
4) ensure that all USGI parts are used (except receiver, of course)
5) learn as much as possible about the rifle

With the right bedding job, this rifle will do sub 1 MOA and will reach out to 1000 yards if necessary or desired.

I'm getting most of my M1A information from http://www.BattleRifles.com - there are more hardcore M1A nuts there than here, sadly.

You cannot legally own M14 receivers (the original, real-deal) unless you are prepared to pay for (and legally able to own) a true machine gun. Think mid to high 4 figures! Why is this? See the 1968 gun control act for more information. The US Army sawed thousands of M14 recievers in half, but the rest of the parts were kept and can be bought from many different sources (Orion 7, Classified Ads on various forums).

Springfields quality control on M1As has had some serious issues lately - do a search here and on TheFiringLine to hear what's going on. I've heard first and second hand accounts of all sorts of issues, ranging from the 'zero' being way off center for the rifle (meaning, you don't have much room on one side for windage) to other issues regarding fit and finish.... Springfield used to use USGI parts, but sources have been drying up so they've switched to lower quality parts.

Buying a Sprinfield is not a mistake - your rifle is likely to be just fine - but experience has taught me that if you want to do it right, do it yourself. If you are impatient, just go buy a Standard M1A and have some fun. If you are patient, you will be rewarded!

Find a good smith to bed it for you, and spend a LOT of time researching before you buy anything. Scott Duff's book ( http://www.scott-duff.com ) on the M14 is an excellent starting point covering most of everything. The online forums have been - however - even more valuable to me as I've been working on my project.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to email or PM me - I love talking about M1A rifles!

Feanaro
May 14, 2003, 01:31 PM
M1A. Accurate and no plastic. Unless you want it. ;)

Sven
May 14, 2003, 01:32 PM
I'm building an M1A from the receiver up so as to:

1) avoid finding myself working for Springfield's QA department (do a search)
2) save money (no, really... )
3) do it the way I want (Krieger barrel, McMillan stock, NM sights...)
4) ensure that all USGI parts are used (except receiver, of course)

With the right bedding job, this rifle will do sub 1 MOA and will reach out to 1000 yards if necessary or desired.

I'm getting most of my M1A information from BattleRifles.com - there are more hardcore M1A nuts there than here, sadly.

atek3
May 14, 2003, 05:54 PM
if you are interested in an AR-10 platform rifle, wait until the next issue of precision shooting comes out, they have a very thorough review of the DPMS .308 Long-range rifle, basically their sr-25/ar-10 clone. Did I mention it will cost 1000 dollars :)

atek3

Steve Smith
May 14, 2003, 06:01 PM
XxAR10xX


Ever go by XxSLASHERxX?

XxAR10xX
May 14, 2003, 06:07 PM
Well Steve Smith, my real name is not as cool as yours so I decided not to use it as a sn. Instead I have reverted to using "XxAR10xX" since I have a love for my fav gun and pRon. Yay for the internet! :neener:

Steve Smith
May 14, 2003, 06:08 PM
You didn't answer my quesiton, but I think you are the person that I've talked to over at AR15.com and a few other places that goes by XXSlasherXX right?

Steve

XxAR10xX
May 14, 2003, 06:11 PM
Oh.. haha I thought you were just trying to mess with me. Anyhow, nope "slasher" and myself are two different entities. I am a member of AR15.com, but under a different alias.... (which btw is "G-13" classified) ;)

Steve Smith
May 14, 2003, 06:12 PM
Nevermind...sorry. XxSLASHERxX is a fellow Highpower shooter.

Kaylee
May 14, 2003, 06:40 PM
given the criteria: tightwad, coyotes and two-legged varmints possible uses, fun the most likely use... I think I'll vote AR*. If a person is close enough to warrant a legit defensive use I'd think a .223 would be just fine. And .223 seems a pretty common choice for varmint/coyote hunters up this way.

That said, I like the M14 better as a general rule... it's just not worth the extra cash for what you have in mind. Heck, you could buy BOTH a rack-grade AR (800 or so) AND a CMP M1 (500 or so) for around 1300 -- less than a lot of M1As. That leaves you with both a practical gun and a fun nostalgia piece that's JUST like the one your Daddy had in Korea... maybe even the very same one!

That's my take on it anyhow..

-K


*my pick would be a lightweight 16" flattop.. your milage may vary. :)

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