[hqmhqm]

I find I learn a lot from hearing about the various things that can go wrong with firearms through operator error or malfunctioning equipment; accidental or negligent discharges, exploding barrels, etc.

I have read about cases of putting a 20 ga shell in a 12 ga, not mounting the gun solidly on the shoulder.


Does anyone have any first-hand instructional stories to relate about what other things can go wrong when firing a shotgun, particularly trap shooting?

I had a moment the other day when I picked up a shotshell which was obviously deformed at the crimp, it had a bulge. I put it into the dud box, but I was imagining what could have gone wrong if someone tried to stuff it into the chamber and fire it...

[Spec ops Grunt]

Going with Cheney. :neener:

[Will Learn]

Going with Cheney. LOL. Not switching the spring on a Browning "light twelve" A5 from shooting light loads and then using full/normal loads. Luckly I only made that mistake once because I heard it can damage the stock.

[carterbeauford]

Stick the barrel in some snow or mud.

[Fred Fuller]

1) Kid I know, on opening day of dove season, fired a shell that had been washed in his hunting coat by mom. It squibbed. Rather than taking the time to check his bore after the odd sounding shot, he pumped the gun and quickly fired at the bird again. Blew up the barrel on last-year's-Christmas-present 870 Special Field on the wad stuck in the bore. Luckily it didn't hurt him, and all the gun needed was a new barrel.

2) Friend of mine from school daze was on a typical central Alabama deer drive (with dogs). He was using a 12 ga. SXS loaded with buckshot. When a fox ran by he shot it, downed it but didn't kill it outright. So he decided to save his other shell and buttstroked the fox with the shotgun to finish it off. The still-loaded barrel discharged on impact and blew about 3" out of the femur of his right leg about halfway between knee and hip. It was a miracle he lived through it, and his right leg is still shorter than his left.

3) Distant cousins were dove hunting with other family members and friends. Younger brother had hidden in a fairly deep ditch on the edge of the field, using it as a blind. Older brother wandered up at the edge of the ditch just as younger brother popped up to shoot at a passing bird, and blew most of his brother's head off, leaving him DRT. Younger brother has never gotten over it and lives a life wracked with mental problems and drug abuse.

The other shotgun- involved shootings I have had experience with were deliberate, not accidents, so I don't think they fit here.

lpl/nc

[Oldnamvet]

When I was a youngster pheasant hunting, we had an old farmer who never used his safety. One day he was resting his loaded gun butt on his foot and leaning on the barrel as he pontificated about something in the field. His dog ran up, hit the trigger and blew the bill of his cap off. Another few inches and his head would have been gone. He blamed the dog and still did'nt use the safety.

[BozemanMT]

Lee, no offense, but i'm not going hunting with you or anyone you know
BLEEEEACH.:uhoh:
Awful scary, esp the poor brothers.

gawd :barf:

Anyway, the one I remember is teh guy saying to hold the shotgun off your shoulder an inch or so to remove the kickback. (uh huh, got it third hand, so don't know how true it is)

squibs are an immediate unload and figure out *** just happened. I've had whole ranges stop when someone had a squib and EVERYONE yelling at the guy to stop. it worked and he did kick out a hull.

The 20ga/12ga is a real problem, and easy to do. Pick a gauge and stick with it (like 28ga. :) )

[hqmhqm]

Thanks these are great. I feel more scared and more aware already! I hadn't really considered the issue of squib loads in shotguns before. I guess I just figured since there are pellets, it wouldn't be an issue, but I was not thinking about the wad and/or hull getting stuck.

With the shell with a bulge, I was imagining that it would load partway into the barrel, and then get stuck, maybe even firing with the bolt half open, or else making it dangerous to try to extract.

[Seancass]

can someone explain a squib real quick?

as far as the origional post, i've been fortunate, and the only accident i've had was loading some 20's into a 12, but it was a pump and wouldnt feed. then i got to look pretty dumb when i asked "whats wrong with this shotgun?" "dude, its a 12 and those are 20's" "oh" and then 10 minutes of trying to get them out of the now jammed up action. it was a bottom load/eject gun.

[TrapperReady]

A squib is a round which is either short on powder or is damaged in some way such that not all of the ejecta (pellets, wad, etc...) exit the barrel. The effect is that of an obstructed bore, which can increase pressures on the next shot beyond safe limits.

As far as the original question... is there a "good" way to hurt yourself with anything?

As far as minor things go:

Running your fingers along the inside of a Remington 1100 receiver has been known to cause sudden blood loss, and Hoppes #9 stings a bit in open wounds.

Getting the tip of your finger caught between the front of the lifter and the inside of the receiver on a Benelli isn't much fun.

Release triggers can be.... interesting. (which is why in competition they must carry a sticker showing what they are)

[SigfanUSAF]

Me and a friend were shooting one day on a lunch break from work. I had a P220 with me(usually do) and he had a 12 gauge 870 18" "riot gun". After 2 sandwiches and a few hundred rounds, we started to load back into the truck. I had just finished picking up .45 empties when a blast of dirt and rocks hit my face :eek: . I didn't even hear Chris' 12 ga go off, I don't think, but he "dry fired" it into the ground in front of me :what: . The resulting injuries were the leather on the front of my steel toe boots was shredded :fire: , and I had to clean the debris from my eyes, even though I still had my glasses on :cuss: . I'm glad I'm an auto mechanic, I LOVE those boots! :D From that day forward, I check all guns of his before he puts them up! Kinda know how ol' Dick Cheneys friends feel:rolleyes:

[PJR]

Other things to watch for. It's well known that 20 gauge goes into the 12 and can cause serious problems (narrowly missed one of those myself) but it's not as well known that the 28 gauge will go into a 20 and cause the same problem.

Something that I see occasionally is shooters with extended choke tubes hand tightening their tubes in the shooting station with the gun loaded and closed, sometimes with their fingers on the trigger.:what:

Not stopping immediately when a shot sounds wrong or if the entire hull doesn't come out of the gun. FYI, squib loads are not always reloads either. I've had some faulty factory ammo that jammed up my barrel.

[wdlsguy]

Not wearing eye protection. Pellets can come back at you if they fail to penetrate the target.

[Hoppy590]

i had a bruise for a week because of poor mount on a 20 gauge while trap shooting. high on the bicep. purple. black all the cool colors

[JohnBT]

The best position for shooting a shotgun is seated with your back against a tree. Actually it's with your shoulder against the tree, although a fence post or big rock will do in a pinch. Not only does it help you steady the gun, but the recoil of the shot won't move you around much and you'll get a faster follow-up shot - when your shoulder stops hurting from being mashed.

John

[NailGun]

I have found that it is not really a good idea to peer around the barn, flashlight in one hand, Marlin 200 12 ga. single shot in the other.... and try to shoot the racoon one handed, while having the butt stock in close proximity to ones jaw. The stars were really out that night. :(

[Jubjub]

One of my high school buddies had a Grandpa with only two toes on his right foot. The three little piggies that stayed home, ate roast beef, and had none all went away one day when he rested the muzzle of his empty shotgun on his shoe. He still had those lucky little piggies that went to market and went wee-wee-wee all the way home.

[leadcounsel]

Shoulder braced against a tree is common bad example.

Shotguns don't have drop safeties and I've seen several hunting dogs in the Vet ER with shotgun injuries when the loaded gun gets knocked over. If you're in the field I'd suggest keeping the chamber empty until you're ready to shoot.

Also, because they don't have drop safeties and any jarring can cause the SG to fire, buttstrokes against objects are a VERY bad idea.

[Nathan Williams]

The worst injury with a shotgun I can recall happened to my mom. She was a rookie shooter who decided she was going to take one of dads shotguns from the closet to shoot a snake off the post supporting their bluebird house. Well she grabbed a 3 1/2" magnum. When she leaned over the gun to line up the sight she was holding the gun righthanded but leaned over the gun to use her left eye :what: . When she fired the recoil was too much for her and the gun snapped up poping her square in the middle of the face leaving her with a bloody nose. Needless to say she never has held another shotgun since.

[KD5NRH]

Suffice it to say that, before closing a SxS, you should verify your thumb isn't under the latch. Lost a bit of nail and a fair chunk of meat to that one.

The friend I borrowed the gun from found dried blood in interesting places later.

[Vairochana]

I am familiar with 12ga and .410 and have no experience with 20 or 28ga- What happens when you load them in the wrong gun?:confused:

[Superpsy]

A buddy of mine in college was shooting another buddy's pistol grip shotgun. He was doing fine with it for a while, shooting from around the hip and whatsnot. Then he decided he wanted to use the sights. So he put it in front of his face to see if he could aim the thing (we warned him not to) and then shot at a target. He split his lip and knocked out half of one of his front teeth. He sure looks funny in the graduation pictures. :rolleyes: I don't think he'll be doing that again.

[PJR]

I am familiar with 12ga and .410 and have no experience with 20 or 28ga- What happens when you load them in the wrong gun?

If you load a 20 gauge into a 12 gauge gun the smaller shell will slip forward into the forcing cone leaving enough room for a 12 gauge shell behind it in the chamber. When the gun goes click, you check the chamber, it looks empty, you think that you just forgot to load and put in a 12 gauge shell. When this shell fires it fires into the back of the 20 gauge shell that is stuck in the barrel and KABOOM!

You can also do the same thing if you load a 28 into a 20.

I came very close to a 12/20 burst a few years ago while shooting with friends. The gun went click and while I was about to load I recalled I'd been shooting 20 gauge earlier in the day. I up ended the gun and tapped the butt on the concrete pad and out rolled a 20 gauge shell. :what:

At the time my wife and another couple were standing about 6 feet beside me. To this day I remember the sound of that shell coming out of the gun. I felt sick to my stomach about what had almost happened. I immediately emptied out my vest, found no more 20 gauge, and continued shooting.

[foghornl]

Experimenting with a Pistol Grip Only 12Ga shotgun...

Using some fairly 'stiff' loads of #5 shot. Forgot it was PGO, and placed gun as if to 'wingshoot' at a tossed clay...

BOOM! SMACK! ! ! ! :cuss: :what: :eek:

Let's just say that I was nick-named "Rocky Racoon" for a couple of weeks.....matching pair of 'shiners', and a nose that resembled a stop sign.

[hqmhqm]

Shotguns don't have drop safeties and I've seen several hunting dogs in the Vet ER with shotgun injuries when the loaded gun gets knocked over. If you're in the field I'd suggest keeping the chamber empty until you're ready to shoot.

Also, because they don't have drop safeties and any jarring can cause the SG to fire, buttstrokes against objects are a VERY bad idea.

That's another good piece of information. The other day I was shooting trap by myself, and was loading my 870 with multiple shells. A couple of times I set the gun down loaded to rest while checking something. I am fairly certain there wasn't a round in the chamber, but it is a bad habit. If it had fallen over, it might have gone off, even with the safety on. I will be extra sure to unload before setting it down for any reason.

When shooting trap with others, we always only load one round at a time into the guns, and never change position without unloading.

[Correia]

I told Dave and Steve about this.

Once upon a time, had to replace an 870 firing pin. Had the barrel off, and had just put the bolt back into the gun. Slid the bolt into place, and then decided to test to make sure the pin was working.

So I put my thumb over the end of the bolt face (over the firing pin hole) and pulled the trigger.

This seemed like a good idea at the time.

You know those little tools that diabetics have to draw a little bead of blood on their thumb? Think of that. On STEROIDS.

THWACK! HOLY CRAP!

Put a good hole in my thumb. :)

The actual most dangerous mistake I've had with a shotgun was at a recent night 3 gun match. PvtPyle and I were running 8 and 12 inch custom Saiga entry guns. We were both loading out of a big bucket of assorted 12 gauge. (we were also function testing these guns with everything from 3" magnum slugs to bird shot).

We didn't realize it, but there was some 16 gauge in the bucket. Loading in the dark, neither of us realized this.

PvtPyle ended up launching a whole 16 guage shell and lodging it half way down his barrel. Luckily he stopped shooting and checked the bore after the recoil had felt so different.

[Dave Rishar]

I can tell some horror stories from my time as an RSO. Students letting shotguns go when firing from the hip, shooting up the ground or blasting buckshot into the air, etc. One particular close call that really aggravated me occurred when I informed a student that he was being removed for being unsafel while still loaded with the safety off and his finger on the trigger, he made a two-armed casting-away gesture of frustration, which would've been fine...had he gotten rid of the shotty first. I caught the barrel just before the muzzle hit me in the face. (I displayed remarkable restraint and professionalism in that case, although the man probably has no idea how close he came to getting that weapon jammed into a particular bodily orifice of his.)

Despite our best efforts at coaching, faces were occasionally struck by stocks. Besides one lightly bloodied nose, I don't recall any injuries from this. The Berettas were the real digit dicers but that's a story for another time.

Along the same lines...prone shooting with a Mossberg 500 and 00 buck? I guess there's a reason that that's not part of any course of fire that I ever saw. Bad idea. Won't do that again.

Jamming an empty hull between both triggers on a 12G SXS and discharging two 3" slugs simultaneously, "just to see what happens" -- well, now I know what happens. Another bad idea. Won't do that again.

One-handed 3" slugs through a pump gun with the stock folded -- yet another bad idea. Won't do that again.

Placing the recoil pad against the groin and firing in order to demonstrate the principle of reducing felt recoil by planting the butt solidly, as mentioned in the M14 marksmanship manual? It was a bad idea with the M14 and it was a worse idea with the Mossberg. (And my butt was solidly planted.) Won't do that again, ever.

Before I ever worked with firearms, a friend got a momentary case of the stupids and Cheney'd me in the backs of the legs at about 15 yards with #8 shot. I eventually forgave him for that but I was not pleased at the time. I was fortunate in that it was an open choke and I was only partly in the pattern.

I never did see a squib, explosion, or serious injury with shotguns, on or off active duty.

[Fred Fuller]

Lee, no offense, but i'm not going hunting with you or anyone you know
=====================================================

Boze,

You'd probably find me the worst little-old-lady kind of person (for a guy) you ever went hunting with. With all the stuff I have seen over a lifetime in the field and in two licence terms (6 years) as an EMT, I am positively paranoid about guns and especially shotguns.

In Louis Awerbuck's class this past May there were a couple or three LEOs. One was to my immediate right in my relay. He had a 3-point sling that had his shotgun hung muzzle down to his left (guess who's standing on his left?). He also had a problem remembering to put his safety back on, I kept looking over at his 870 and seeing that bright red ring. I had told him a couple of times he had his safety off (on a loaded gun, in direct violation of both formal instruction and range commands), and he finally objected to my repeated expressions of concern- just as Louis was walking by.

Louis wanted to know why the chitchat. My fellow student said "Awww, he's worried about my safety." Louis, all five foot and not much more of him, looked the guy up and down in a truly interesting fashion, as if he might swallow him whole, and said "So am I."

Dunno if the guy got the message or not, I swapped relays at that point. Still got both my feet, too.

lpl/nc

[mp510]

It's real easy to bruise your face if you shoot a shotgun with a LOP way too short. Done that once.

[dust_101]

Here's another good one to watch out for... if you ever slug a shotgun for deer hunting and mount a scope on it, get your stance/grips right because DANG getting a scope in the eye from a 12ga is no fun at all. :cuss:

[Third_Rail]

Shotguns don't have drop safeties and I've seen several hunting dogs in the Vet ER with shotgun injuries when the loaded gun gets knocked over. If you're in the field I'd suggest keeping the chamber empty until you're ready to shoot.

Also, because they don't have drop safeties and any jarring can cause the SG to fire, buttstrokes against objects are a VERY bad idea.

Geeze! I thought that single-shots of modern design with an internal striker/hammer were OK to leave loaded, but now that I know this, I'll go empty them....

[NAK]

Shotgunners, especially clay shooters, tend to fire a lot of rounds and do it in closer proximity to other shooters. Hearing damage never heals like those sore shoulders and bruised checks do.

Eye protection is also a must every time you pull the trigger...whether is is in the field or at the shooting range. I had to replace a pair of shooting glasses earlier this year because they got nicked directly in the center of my vision by a wild pellet bounce. If you think that kind of thing is a 1 in a million thing, remember that only takes 10 cases of 1 1/8 oz #8s to throw over a million pellets in the air.

[beretta96d]

My personal incident happened at a PPC match last year. I've never shot this match before so I borrowed a friend's BPS with 18" tube. The other gent who traveled with us reloads shotshells and had some made up with SSG and slugs for the match.

You know they say hindsight is 20/20, I should have caught on when the first SSG round went off and I had seen the pellets skid in the sand. Number 2,3 and 4 rounds were fine. Number 5 round's wad never exited. Next course of fire was slugs at 25 yards! The recoil was actually no different, the sound was no different except the front site was peeled back and looking at the neighbor! The barrel opened up in 3 pieces about 6 inches.

I was scared !@#%less and the reloader thought I did something wrong. My buddy didn't care about the barrel in the least.

[Axman]

When I was 17 I went rabbit hunting with a close friend. I had my 12 ga and he with his 410. We were walking through a bit of brush side by side. I didn't notice that he had dropped back a bit behind me. He went to step over a fallen tree when his pant leg caught a branch and down he went. The gun went off and a small amount of game shot got me in the leg. Now mind you I was born and raised in Michigan where I spent the first 33 years of my life, so I was well dressed for the cold winter snow. I had on a thick one piece hunting suit, a pair of Lee jeans under that with a pair of thermals under those. The shot penetrated the three layers of clothing and began penetrating my skin but did not go through entirely. The lead pellets were easy to remove with the tip of a hunting knife but needed immediate attention to prevent lead poisoning and infection. I forgave him for blasting my leg but anytime we hunted together I made sure I knew exactly where he was at all times.

[BoomBoom25]

My friend had this old gun that use to belong to his dad. It was a semi auto 12 ga cant remember the make. This gun had some real issues but, the main thing wrong with it was the firing pin mechanism. Sometimes when you would pull the bolt back to load the gun or fire the gun it would go rapid fire and fire all rounds in the gun. I will have to say that when it happened it was fun especially if you were the one holding it. Well this bring me to the story when I first started shooting with this friend he told me about the time he took a couple other friends of mine shooting for the first time with him. Well he told them about the gun that it could fire off all shots after loading or shooting the gun. The seemed to understand that and they began shooting. Everything was going great the gun had not malfunctioned once and it was also time for one of them to go reset the targets and for everyone else to reload. So my friend started to put back up the targets while the other friend was reloading the shotgun this was also the first time he had gotten to shot it that day. Well after my friend had put up the targets he was walking back to get his gun ready to shoot and was unaware that his firend was pointing the muzzle of the shotgun right by his head. Well needless to say this time when the bolt was pulled back the gun went off right by mt friends head nearly busting his eardrums. He really never could hear that good out of that ear again. If your wondering he finally did forgive the guy.

[ryan56507@msn.com]

""had a moment the other day when I picked up a shotshell which was obviously deformed at the crimp, it had a bulge. I put it into the dud box, but I was imagining what could have gone wrong if someone tried to stuff it into the chamber and fire it...""

Dude dont even worry about that, bite the end to help the crimp so you dont lose shot and throw it in, I might not mut it in the magazine but only cuz youd lose shot, the other day I had a few crushed boxes which had at least three deformed shells just like that and they worked great. If you actually think aobut it there isnt anything wrong with the shell, its dumb to worry about that.

I can think of muzzle direction, if somebody yells Cease fire or sais something, keep the barrel downrange, a guy at our range a few years ago heard somebody say something and turned and was like" whats that fred?" and the gun went off and killed a guy.

[dragongoddess]

This is so encouraging as I'm going to shoot a shotgun (mossberg 500A)for the first time next Sunday.

[EVIL5LITER]

Me and a friend were shooting one day on a lunch break from work. I had a P220 with me(usually do) and he had a 12 gauge 870 18" "riot gun". After 2 sandwiches and a few hundred rounds, we started to load back into the truck. I had just finished picking up .45 empties when a blast of dirt and rocks hit my face . I didn't even hear Chris' 12 ga go off, I don't think, but he "dry fired" it into the ground in front of me . The resulting injuries were the leather on the front of my steel toe boots was shredded , and I had to clean the debris from my eyes, even though I still had my glasses on

I imagine you had to clean the debris from your shorts as well.

[sm]

People do not listen to me.

How many times have I said :

Never hand your wife, daughter, or girlfriend a 28 ga shotgun to shoot.

Huh? How many times? I got plenty of co-signers on THR alone!

Plenty of "hurt" wallets too! :D


Granted my role on THR is to stir up trouble, so I mention 28ga shotguns, and suggest 28 ga shotguns. Hey, you hand wife, daughter, girlfriend a 28 ga shotgun to shoot - don't be waving that "hurt" wallet at me. ;)

"Yeah but [tm] how come there is a Blame Steve thing going on around this Forum".

When you "qualify" you wil be notified. :p

[LaEscopeta]

Shotguns don't have drop safetiesDon’t Mossberg 590s have military spec drop safeties? Also 500s? I don’t know, I just seem to remember reading that somewhere. (Not that anyone should get into any bad habits if they do have a drop-safe firearm.)

[telomerase]

Appreciate learning from other shooter's mishaps. Maybe by the year 3000 shotguns will have safeties that lock the firing pin, etc.

On the bright side they already have ammo that is harmless if you're wearing a little polyethylene (spectra = high-quality polyethylene) :neener: .

[Spiggy]

yup, uh this is just advice from watching this happen second hand

Never let your freinds load your shotgun

[p35]

I've seen a few trucks with shot patterns blown out the sheet metal from the inside- UNLOAD the thing before you put it in the truck!

[Nathan Williams]

Jamming an empty hull between both triggers on a 12G SXS and discharging two 3" slugs simultaneously, "just to see what happens" -- well, now I know what happens. Another bad idea. Won't do that again.



Congratulations you just gave me a bad idea :D .

[Manedwolf]

I'd heard of someone nearly getting hurt because they passed a friend a blackpowder blank when handing them shells while shooting at night.

Wasn't the gun or the ammo, it was the reaction of the person whom they'd given the blank to, after firing it, that could have gotten them hurt. :D

I imagine that'd be pretty...startling.

[B yond]

This guy I know decided he wanted to buy his first shotgun, so he went out and spent $2,000 on an Ultra-Light Beretta over-under 12ga. He went out shooting with a firend of his who hadn't ever shot a shotgun and they propped up some clays on a hillside to shoot at (stationary target practice with a shotgun?):confused: . After they'd shot all the clays the gun's owner handed it, still loaded, to his friend and went down-range to set up some more clays.:what: Needless to say, he got Cheneyed in the back with his own gun.

[shotgunkevin]

I frequent a Wildlife Dept. public range in a rural area that is used very little. Often I'll have the place to myself for an entire morning. One day a car pulled up with three guys in it, 18 or 20 years old, with a single firearm between them: a 12 gauge pistol grip of very short length. They appeared pretty rough around the edges. Greetings were exchanged, and they inquired about what I was shooting that day. I let them view everything I had on the bench, but made no mention of the Kahr concealed in my waistband. I fired a single round out of their weapon, and that was enough. I think it was loaded with birdshot, but I really don't recall. I resumed firing my Mini-14 at 100 yards and they passed around their wrist breaker firing at various rocks and trash. I
asked for a cease-fire to check my target, and they agreed, so I walked down range, and they remained at the line. I viewed my target and was returning back to the line when one of the doofus brothers discharged the shotgun into the ground directly next to his own right foot, laughing the whole time! He was relating a story to the other two stooges about the time he had tried to rob/carjack somebody and accidently fired the gun in the course of his felony! :what:
Soon after, a fat man could be seen speeding away with a trunk full of uncased guns, checking his rear view mirror frequently.

[CajunBass]

My wife and I were visiting some new friends who lived on a farm out in the country years ago. Their teen-age son was telling us how he liked to sneak up on kids "Parking" in their driveway, and fire a black powder shotgun with just a powder charge over top of the car, then watch the lovers haul butt away from there.

He demonstrated this a couple times with a double BP shotgun, telling us "It doesn't matter how much powder you use, You can't blow up one of these things with black powder."

He then loaded it again. Now, I don't know how much powder he poured in that gun but it was a LOT. When he touched it off, there was a sound like the hammer of hades, and the gun flew out of his grip on the forestock, (He held onto the gun with his right hand) and he screamed like a little girl. I think I did too. I thought he had blown his hand off.

The barrel split just behind his hand on the forearm almost back to the nipple.

He said "It shouldn't have done that." :what: