Please Help, It's Not My Gun !!

I am listing this in the auto section of this forum since the subject matter is a semi-auto.

My local gunshop I use for FFL transfers called me a couple weeks ago and said your gun is in. I said, Uh, no its not, I don't have a gun on order. Gunshop said it has your name on it, come pick it up.

So, I get there, paperwork is done, I look at the pistol it and said, no, this is definitely not my gun. Gunshop says well it is now, so I pay a transfer fee of $20.00.

The only clue I had as to where this pistol came from was a single name that came with the pistol. I had bought a firearm from someone a couple months ago with the same first name, so I called this person. Sure enough, this seller sent me someone else's gun. I told the seller we need to get this gun to the rightful owner ASAP. Someone has paid for a pistol they did not receive.

Problem is the seller wil not contact me with the necessary information to get this pistol to the rightful owner. When I spoke to the seller I left my name, address, phone numbers, everything necessary to contact me. I have called since and only get an answering machine pick-up.

Suggestions?

There's not much you can do. Go shoot the damn thing. :neener:

Suggestions?

You should have refused it and told the FFL to return it to the sender...kinda late for that now though...

Go have fun with your new gun!!!;)

The world would be a better place if more people like you were in it!

Have to ask..What kind of gun was it??:D

Deleted.

so yes please tell us what kinda gun did you get for escentially only $20?

I mean did the dealer put a gun to your head or something to take a weapon that you know doesn't belong to you? Do you *really* need help on what to do here?

C'mon, you know what the right thing is here.

Cruc

I don't plan on shooting it since it is technically not mine. I was hoping the person it belongs to visits this forum. If so, this particular pistol would be very, very easy for the rightful owner to identify.

I may bump this thread from time to time in order to hopefully get a hit from the owner.

The reason I took the pistol is I have a feeling the FFL holder I got it from may have held on to it, then again, I may be wrong. I would forfeit the $20.00 fee I paid just to get it where it belongs.


Cruc,

I am sorry you feel that way.

Why not go through another FFL and simply send the gun back to the seller? Let him get it to the proper owner.

The right thing to do is return the gun. It is not yours.

do the RIGHT thing. I'd hate it to have someone shooting MY gun. Don't listen to these people who tell you to keep it and shoot it. jackasses.
and I sure as hell hate to have a reported 'lost' gun on my possession.

Yup, I agree you should just ship it back to the FFL it came from. And put in there a note to send you all the money you have spent in this "error."

My past experience with the seller was really bad. Bought a NIB pistol, sent the payment, I had to call a few weeks later to check on the receipt of the check. Seller indicated pistol would ship the next day.

Waited 10 days, no gun. Called back several times, all I got was an answering machine, left several messages. 7 days later, no return phone call. This is now 3 weeks. I was thinking I might not get the item.

I called ATF and politely inquired as to what to do. They said it was not a matter they coud take up, however, they said the Post Office could get involved since the non-delivery of the pistol was mail fraud. Damn, I just wanted my gun, not all this crap.

While on the phone with ATF, they suggested I contact the Sherrif's office in the county where the seller lived. I did, got a detective on the phone, a super nice guy, and I'll be derned, the detective knew who the seller was. Detective contacted the seller, and 3 days later I got the merchandise.

This is the long story on why I don't want to send it back to the seller. I would loose shipping fees and besides, I think the rightful owner will be found in due time.

I intend to take other avenues to locate the owner this week.

The right thing to do is return the gun. It is not yours.+1.

And then tell us all the name of the turd seller who wouldn't lift a finger to make it right.

I know i made a joke earlier about the gun being yours now, but it wasn't mean to be taken seriously...

And then tell us all the name of the turd seller who wouldn't lift a finger to make it right.


I'll second that as well, i know i don't want to be purchasing a gun from someone that messes up my gun order and then won't help me get my gun back...What a jackass...Nor do I want ANYONE buying from them.

Too bad firearms are not shippable via US Postal... Federal law states that if you receive something via the mail - and you didn't order it - it's yours to keep!

"Too bad firearms are not shippable via US Postal... Federal law states that if you receive something via the mail - and you didn't order it - it's yours to keep!"


That kinda' sux for the person that paid for it and didn't get it. What if you were the buyer and you didn't get your merchandise or a refund, just lost your money?

That kinda' sux for the person that paid for it and didn't get it. What if you were the buyer and you didn't get your merchandise or a refund, just lost your money?

In a perfect scenario, original buyer complains, jack@ss FFL holder ships him a new firearm at his cost, and OP gets to keep his $20 prize. (folds hands behind head, sighs deeply, and says "all is right with the world!")

But...Do everything you can to return the firearm as it really isn't yours.

You have contacted the seller to get the info needed to ship the gun back, he has refused to forward this info.
What more can you do?

Make sure every correspondence is by e-mail or certified letter. and save all

How long have you had this gun?
I'd be willing to bet that when the true owner of the gun contacts the seller he will try to contact you.

The simplest thing would be for the seller to give the buyer your info and you ship the gun directly to him, if it is not cost prohibitive.

And to give us the name of this disreputable seller so that we don't fall victim

It has already been said, perhaps more than once, but I will repeat it even if it is too late in this case. You should never have accepted the gun in the first place. It is not yours, you did not order it, you did not pay for it. It was someone else's mistake. You should have refused it.

Well, you seem like a good guy since you are atleast trying to get the gun back to the original buyer, so I am not going to barade you with another "you shouldnt have taken it" post. Obviously that is already clear to you. What I will say is this:

Get rid of that gun the fastest legal way POSSIBLE. If you can, try and get paperwork from your local sherrifs office, the FFLs local sherrifs office, ATF, WHOEVER saying that you DID NOT purchase this gun, it was a shipping error, and you are atleast attempting to get it back to seller. Call my paranoid, but I have a gut feeling this FFL you speak of could possibly be trying to get you back for the trouble you caused. "If a deal seems too good in this society, it probably is." Get the gun back to the seller, or get it into the hands of your local sherrif, the sellers local sherrif (probably the best bet in getting the firearm to the rightful owner) or the ATF ASAP before you reap some legal trouble over a gun you know NOTHING about and was given for free from a known bad FFL that you had a run in with.....

Im sure like an "out there" thign to think of, but this world is full of nasty people.. :uhoh:

You legally own the gun. It's not like finding stolen property. Documented.

Everyone browbeating the OP needs to redirect said brow toward the seller who apparently couldn't give two toots regarding who gets what.


(but seriously, we're going to need the name of that seller)

when i took business law class last semester as i remember law states that the only peoson who has a right to property is the owner. you are the legal owner of this gun against all exept the rightful owner. the seller has no claim to it anylonger.

it is admirable that you want to return it to whoever paid for it. you are right to not send it back to the seller as that guy sounds like a stool sample. if the rightful owner cannot be reached in a reasonable length of time id say keep it and shoot it untill the rightful owner surfaces. maybe wait a year? sounds reasonable to me. you have a date on your paperwork yes? so if the gun was used in a crime they cant blame you cause you can prove you didnt have it before said day.

unless im overlooking somthing your job is easy. sit back and wait for someone who can identify it. how did you buy your first gun from the stool sample? was it like auctionarms? can you search completed auctions on that site? maybe match it up that way?

be careful, maybe theres somthing wrong with the gun and the seller is hoping you have it blow up in your face.

schmeky, no reflection on you, but I really believe this is in the wrong forum. I respect your wish to see that the firearm is transmitted to the rightful owner. I'm moving this thread to General Gun Discussions, because it will get somewhat wider readership there.

Hope it works out for you, with no further expense to you.

Best,
Johnny

Uh, why not call that detective back and let him know that this guy sent you a gun unsolicited, and you're worried that he might have done it in an attempt to cover something up or incriminate you?

I would just contact an FFL and ship it back to the seller. Eventually the person that bought it is going to start harping on this guy like you did when you didn't get your merchandise. He is either going to have to ship this buyer another gun at his expense or beg you to send it back. Not that it would break my heart to have this lousy dealer be taught a lesson to be more careful. And from what you said about the gun being easy to identify I have to assume it's custom and probably would make that lesson rather expensive.

I agree with the above. Use your own FFL and return the gun to the seller; include a note requesting reimbursement of shipping and transfer fees. Take TheHighRoad.

In addition, if you know the seller and can assume this may have been the result of an online auction, search the "closed auctions" on Gunbroker and AuctionArms to see if you can find the gun in question. If you can find the auction, you will at least know the real buyer's screen name. I'll bet either of the auction sites would provide contact information under these circumstances.

And do let us know the name of the seller ... if not here, in the "Rate Transactions" forum. Sounds like this is a guy to be avoided.

joab,

I am in the process of trying to find who the buyer is and have it shipped to directly to them.


KD5NRH,

That's exactly what I am doing today, i.e., contacting the detective I spoke with several weeks ago whom was helpful.


I want to emphasis the FFL holder I got the gun through did not give me the impression they would have made a real effort to get the gun back to the seller. They obviously don't know who the actual buyer is. I made a judgement call, good or bad, but I intent to make it good.

I have been screwed in a few deals in my lifetime and we all know how it feels. Imagine if you were the buyer.

Trying to get it to the rightful owner is the only ethical thing to do and you are to be complimented for putting the effort into trying to get it to them.

Notifying the Detective that another problem has occured with this seller is also the right thing to do. He may be sympathetic with the idea that someone's paid this idiot for the gun and is now out the money and can extract the information.

Ok, I don't understand why he picked up the gun fromt he FFL in the first place. I would've showed up, looked at the gun, said "Nope, not mine, never ordered it, send it back where it came from" and left the store. Now it's been officially transferred and there's a big mess to straighten out.

We actually had a version of this happen. We did place an order for a Ruger Mark III. What showed up was a Ruger Blackhawk .44 Magnum. A very nice gun, mind you, and hundereds of dollars more expensive than what we paid. We said, "Uh, that's a very nice gun, but it's not what we ordered and not what we paid for. It's gotta go back". No paperwork was signed. It WAS a bit of a hassle to get the seller to accept return shipment, etc. but in the end everything worked out ok.

Never take delivery of a firearm you didn't order. Bad juju.

Hey thats my gun. I was wondering why it never came in. I will send you a PM with my address mail it to me promptly. Just kidding I wish more people were like you in trying to find its rightful owner. But yes if I were you I would have never accepted it, just sounds like trouble waiting to happen.

For all those that have stated I should have never signed for something I knew wasn't mine are correct. I should have never signed.

For all those that have stated I should have never signed for something I knew wasn't mine are correct. I should have never signed.

Eh, shoulda coulda woulda, too late to worry about that. I'm sure none of those jumping on you have ever made a mistake either huh?

Seems like you are doing the best you can.

Let us know how it plays out.

Who was the seller? Let people know so they don't get taken in by this unscrupulous clown. Also talking with the Detective that helped you earlier may have a side benefit you aren't aware of. If he is like most law enforcement investigators he is going to keep a paper trail on this guy. This may help get a criminal investigation started. Who knows who he may be scamming? Who knows who his real customers are? Could they be gun trafficers from other states selling to gang members? Who knows. Whoever the seller is sounds to me that he/she simply does not care how they do business. This type of clown creates a cloud over good honest gun sellers.

I have contacted the Sherrifs office in the county the seller lives. I requested they contact the seller and get me the buyers contact information. The Sherrifs office promised to return my call.

The seller will not return my calls.:banghead:

Why is everyone giving his such a hard time about signing for a gun that he was told was his? I know it's on the outer edges of reason, but it IS possible that someone sent it as a gift or it's a prize from some contest/raffle....

Yes, I know that it was later established to not be a gift of prize, but at the moment, you can prove it's not how?

OK, we've established that he shouldn't have signed for it.

Now that he has it, yes, making an effort to return it is proper . . . but I see no reason that HE ought to pay for shipping.

Or, for that matter, his transfer fee.

Unless the person who shipped the gun to him fronts him the money for shipping - plus the transfer fee - I'd just inform the shipper that I was turning it over to the police, and he could deal with them for the return of the gun.

I don't buy this story, it's just too silly to believe. Anyone with half a brain would not fill out all the paper work, and pay a fee for a gun that they did not order.

Hey - document all your attempts - then keep the thing. You tried. Guy won't return your calls.

1st, I would not have accepted the shipment. But now that you did, you more than did a good faith effort.

If this firearm is as unique as you say it is.
Google it. Maybe the the auction or the WTS posting on a gun board will come up. And you can contact the buyer that way. At this point you could get nicked for receiving stolen property.

Document it and do it by certified mail. At some time in the future, someone will ask, and you'll need to prove it. Phone conversations and email are difficult to document!

cbsbyte,

I take offense to your statement. Who are you to assess anybody's character?

In due time you'll find what southern hospitality is.

Yeah, this whole thing doesn't make sense to me. Why did you pay the $20 and take the gun if you didn't think it was yours? Why ask on here if the gun belongs to one of us? You said you confirmed the gun was meant for someone else with the seller, if you had him on the phone, why not just have him give contact info? Or just keep the dam gun and let the buyer take legal action against the seller. He'll get either his money back or another gun, and the seller will get what he deserves in legal and restitution costs. You just came on here and say, I have a special gun by accident and I'll give it back, does it belong to one of you? Like a kid trying to play a tease game, no offense.

I'm far from being in my right mind and I wouldn't have gone to look at the thing. This isn't as bad a reflection on schmeky as it is the FFL who twisted his arm to come down and get the gun. He apparently doesn't think much of you schmeky since he was not willing to take your word. I wouldn't use him anymore if I were you. He's likely to be further trouble in the future.

It's not stolen - it has a legal paper trail from FFL to FFL to 4473 - it's not stolen. It is totally, according to the law, as I understand it, (having worked on a gunshop before), legally and clearly HIS firearm. The extraordinary efforts he is going through to send this firearm to the one who sent a payment to the original owner is highly commendable, but legally, he has done NOTHING wrong. The original owner is the one legally liable to the other purchaser of the item, to either request it's return from schmecky, provide a firearm identical to the one sold, or refund the original purchaser's money.
If my local FFL said I had a gun waiting, I would certainly try to find out where it came from, too, but there is a legal paper trail. He can't even be charged with recieving stolen goods - the gunshop legally recieved it from the original owner.

You legally own the gun. It's not like finding stolen property. Documented.
Unless of course the guy who bought the gun and never received it has reported it stolen ... if thats the case schmeky could be in a precarious position (I believe possession of a stolen gun is a felony).

It's not stolen - it has a legal paper trail from FFL to FFL to 4473 - it's not stolen. It is totally, according to the law, as I understand it, (having worked on a gunshop before), legally and clearly HIS firearm.
Maybe so ... but I certainly wouldn't want to be the test case here :p

I think paying the transfer and accepting the gun was a bad idea (I know, I know...too late now). You've involved yourself in a sticky situation (regardless of how good your intentions were).


Anyway, if you're able to unite this gun with it's proper owner than good for you!

Unless of course the guy who bought the gun and never received it has reported it stolen can someone who has never taken possession of an item claim theft of that item

Don't worry about the right thing to do. Don't worry about returning it. You've done all you can. Put it in a safe, never to use it ever again.

Put it in a safe, never to use it ever again.:confused:

By the way
A similar thing did happen to a friend of mine
He accepted delivery of a gun he never ordered
Turned out he won it in a lottery type drawing that he didn't know he entered with one of the buy site he does business with.

Unless of course the guy who bought the gun and never received it has reported it stolen He'll have to provide evidence of his ownership, i.e., the records of the gun shop where he did the transfer.

Unless of course the guy who bought the gun and never received it has reported it stolen What exactly will he have as grounds to establish that he owns the gun? A cancelled check? It better have a serial number on it and even then all the paperwork that actually carries legal weight as record of ownership leads to schmeky. The only person that would be in trouble for this would be the seller. He had a contract with someone to transfer ownership in exchange for payment and didn't. At best he has breach of contract. The buyer never legally owned it to be able to have had it stolen from him.

Oh and does anyone else wanna tell him that they think it was a bad idea to accept the gun? I don't think it's been said enough times for him to get it yet. He's only agreed 2 or 3 times now, keep piling it on. :mad:

Schmeky, keep doing what you are doing man. You're making it right and that's commendable.

Once it's over and the correct owner has his gun let us know who this sloppy(at least) seller is so we can avoid him.

I am NOT convinced that ArmoredMan is correct saying that Schmeke has done nothing legally wrong. I am not an attorney, but, I will still say....If something is sent to me by virtue of someone's mistake and I did not order it or pay for it and I then still keep the item I think there is legal liability should this ever get into court. I am not talking just criminal court. I am also including civil liability issues. Sure there is all kinds of FFL paperwork and the legal paper trail....but just because a mistake is compounded by other people does not legally bestow title to an item of property if it was not the recipient's in the first place. It may be sort of like this.....Your employer prints a pay check to you in the amount of $12450. when in fact the amount was supposed to be $1245. You know the amount given is 10 times the correct amount but you go cash the paycheck knowing it is way over what you legally are entitled to. What do you think a judge is going to say when your employer brings suit against you to obtain return of $11205 that is not yours? Sure your employer printed the check for $12450 but that can easily be explained as a mistake by ONE OR MORE people in the company system. Also, the judge is going to know that you had some consciousness of guilt by virtue of cashing a check you know is grossly incorrect. I suggest if you want a good legal answer to this question talk with an attorney. Those of us in this forum who are not attornies can only make guesses.

I received a call from a Detective Anderson this morning. He indicated the seller has been "very ill", with no further elaboration.

I explained to the Detective what has happened and all I need is the buyers information. He promised to call back.

I want to clarify one thing. I had been "bidding" on a couple pistols and the auctions closed with the reserve not being met. When the FFL called me and said your gun is in, I told him, no, I don't have anything on order. He said, come pick up "your" item. When I got there he came out to my car (I am a paraplegic) with the paperwork all filled out. When I looked at the gun, I said, nope, not mine. He said it was from a "Lisa", the only thing on the receiving paperwork. I had bought a gun the previous month from a "Lisa" and I realized she must have sent it to me by mistake. So I signed, paid the $20.00 fee and went home and called and sure enough, it was her. Gave her all the info needed to get things going on the right track. End of problem, I thought.

This has turned into a Chinese fire drill. I thought this would be a simple done deal. I am sorry I ever brought this to the forum. My intention was to see if the buyer could be located through the High Road Forum.

For all those think I am a lying ass, that's fine. I have said before I should have never signed for it, I made a huge mistake.

However, once I find the buyer, and I will, I'll be satisfied. I would like to think someone would at least try and help me in like situation.

I am sorry I ever brought this to the forum.

Really, the guy just wanted help from the board, not a lecture. I guess I'll learn from the mistakes of others....

You're going the extra mile, schmeky, and good for you.

Monday-morning quarterbacks: enough, already!

good luck in finding your buyer. Have you contacted the auction host? If this kind of thing is going on they would want to know about it.

I am sorry I ever brought this to the forum. My intention was to see if the buyer could be located through the High Road Forum.A truely sorry statement to read on THIS forum. No one should have to feel this way on TheHighRoad.

After the first person said that he shouldn't have taken the gun and he agreed that particular point should have been considered resolved. But nope we got people that can't "take TheHighRoad" and have to rub salt in a wound.

He is trying to make right in a difficult situation. He has admitted his mistake. LAY OFF!!

And for those of you that have said he could be in legal trouble. I think if that was the case the DETECTIVE he has been conversing with might have said something about it.

This is my next to the last post on this matter.

The last one will be when the owner is located. Then I'll post some details. Hopefully the rightful owner will post as well.

I have located the owner and the transfer will take place this week. I may be out a few bucks, but the owner would have been out a bunch of bucks.

Good deal. :)

Thread closed at schmeky's request.