[ID_shooting]

My Dad asked me to do some gun shopping for him. He is pushing 70 and big game hunting is not in his card anylonger for health reasons. For retirment he bought himself a decent .338 win mag. Now that cancer has trashed his upper body, he gave me the rifle and asked me to trade it off for him.

He wants an on the ATV bear hand gun for when he is ridding around in bear country. The potential bad critters are bears, black and brown, mt lions and possible wolves.

I offered up a 4 inch smith 44 Mag but he refused stating he wants an auto loader. He initally stated 45 ACP but I am thinking that round may not be potent enough.

My first thoughts are a G20 but that may be too much in teh recoil department for him. He is not partial to platform and I think a Glock might be perfect. Reliable, easy to operate and forgiving in poor weather conditions plus high round count for those "empty the mag" situations.

What do you guys think? Given the parameters, what is a good fit?

[TimboKhan]

well, if cost isn't a huge issue, perhaps one of those new .50 GI pistols that have been written about as of late. Or, perhaps a Desert Eagle .50. If bears are his primary concern, I should think that he would want the biggest bullet possible...

[Eightball]

Mateba Unica 6 Autorevolver in .454 Casull.

only semi-auto revolver on the planet, other than a webly-fosbury. Plus, it's .454!! he can use .45 LC if he wanted (change some springs), you can change the barrel length, etc. And if 5 rounds SA trigger (1st is DA) of .454 won't stop a bear......:eek: time to run.

Plus, it's just a nifty gun. Do some research, see whatcha think.

Or a Desert Eagle. You can't go wrong with a DE, though I'd think the .44MAG version would be cheaper to feed than the .50AE. Or maybe the .357 version?

[Seismic Sam]

As far as revolver versus autoloader. The problem here is bear color, and while a 50 GI does have the power to stop a black bear, you can absolutely FORGET about it with a grizzly or brown bear. Too much bear, too few ft-lbs. The only autoloader that can stop a grizzly (and this is not even a certainty...) is the DE 50. It's a 5.5 pound steel boat anchor, and the recoil is massive, and it takes a lot of practice to get used to. I did it, but I'm 6'3" and 240 lbs., and my upper body hasn't been wasted by cancer. I have a hard time imagining anybody with dimished upper body strength who could handle EITHER a DE 50 OR a Smith 500, which is just as heavy and recoils twice as hard. I think the best gun would be the Alaskan 454, which is a normal weight gun, but has some pretty heavy stopping power.

For the record, I own all three 50's, and the other problem with the 50 GI is its price tag, which is $2900. :eek: While I think it was worth every penny I spent on it, I could afford that kind of a price tag, and not everybody can. It's the ultimate CCW piece, but it by no means has enough horsepower for a grizzly or brown bear.

[steelhead]

The Mateba is a neat firearm but will run you over $1400 and a Desert Eagle will be over $1k.

Sounds like your idea of the G20 is the way to go. If he could handle the .44 Mag Smith (but doesn't want a revolver) then the 10MM shouldn't be that bad. If he doesn't like the Glock design then what about a EAA Witness in 10MM (the added weight will help with the recoil).

[Shoney]

Since your father was thinking 45ACP, he may be thinking 1911 platform. You should clarify that with him. The Glock 20 would be nice, if he finds it comfortable. Some individuals just can’t shoot them:banghead: . Also look at the 1911’s in 10mm, more than adequate for black bear (or cimamon or brown black bear. There are no Brown Bear in the lower 48:what: ). Do some 1911 searches in this forum, or go to
http://forum.m1911.org
Since it is your dad who will be shooting it, he should shoot a few to find out. At a minimum he should handle them before the purchase.

[ID_shooting]

The witness came to mind as well, also a 1911, delta, Smith 10 series or DW. He is in a catch 22 situation. Arthritis means that manipulating safty levers can be challenging at best and he said revolvers are too heavy for him. This is killing me, the side note is that he said get somthing I am comfortable with cuz it would be mine inside 10 years anyway but I am not really bringing that into consideration.

Were it me, I would get a Delta. Glocks are OK, I just can't shoot the big Glocks with a darn.

No clue what to do.

[ARTiger]

There are no Brown Bear in the lower 48

Folks in Wyoming, Montana and Idaho may tend to disagree. I do believe the Grizzly is considered a brown bear and there's a small, but not insignificant number of those in that area.

Just a thought, but how about a short barrelled lever gun? The Marlin guide gun in .45/70 isn't that bad to handle. About like a 20 gauge shotgun. A pistol of enough caliber to feel comfortable among the critters you mention almost by the nature of the task is going to recoil quite a bit. If your dad's shoulders are okay the rifle recoil of the low pressure .45/70 will probably be manageable and there are also a lot of good aftermarket recoil pads that work very well.

[Bazooka Joe71]

How about a G20 for your pops?

Not too heavy, and the recoil isn't bad at all.


Oops, just saw that was already mentioned...Sorry

[Seismic Sam]

Considering the manual safety issue, there COULD be a DA auto that you might want to look at, and that would be the EAA 45, which is $360 NIB. IF you put extra heavy springs and a Sprinco recoil buffer in it, you can shoot 45 Super loads in it, and that's what I have done with mine. It will put a Hornady 185 grain XTP bullet out the front at 1250 FPS. which is smokin' for a 45 Auto. :eek: (641 ft-lbs.) If you want to spend a little more, you can get a Springfield V-16 longslide that is set up for 45 Super, and will drive 230 grain bullets at 1200 FPS for 735 ft. lbs of energy. Those are 41 magnum power levels, and in a 1911 or CZ clone gun it's probably the best you can get. If you're not a handloader, about the only place to get hot 45 Super ammo is the Ace Custom 45 website, but they have some express ammo that is quite hot. For details on how-to-do-it with an EAA, check out my posts over in the Clone Club section of czforum.com.

[Geronimo45]

How about a high-cap 9mm (won't 9mm go into a bear? With FMJ, maybe with tracer)... or the CZ 52 (a pair a CZ52s, even).
Maybe one of the .223 pistols... don't know their effect vs bears, but thirty rounds ought to make an impact.
Desert Eagle in 357 or 44 magnum ought to do, if it's not too pricey.

[Wes Janson]

Depending on your location this may not be an option, and maybe I'm completely off base here in this train of thought, but maybe this would be the best choice:
http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm

[lycanthrope]

1911 with .460 Rowland top end. .45 ACP and power close to the .44 mag and you're still out for about $1000.

[SHOOT1SAM]

ID_shooting:

While I don't have a Glock, I do have a Witness, a Delta Elite, and 2 of the S&W 10 series.

If your Dad is interested in shooting any of them before you or he decide on which to purchase (assuming you're going 10mm), I'd be more than happy to let him have a go with mine. PM if you're interested.

Sam

[ID_shooting]

LOL Sam, you are probably the reason I can't find a decent 10mm for myself in this town. :neener:

Dad lives in Ashton, more than likely not able to test drive, but thanks for the offer though.

[Vitamin G]

I would definately give the EAA witness in 10mm a hard look. Its a really nice firearm (once you ditch the 10rd mags) and an even better deal. I splurged for a glock 20, and wish i could go back and buy the witness instead without taking a loss.

[Zundfolge]

Get him to a gun shop and let him pick what fits his hand the best.

Then worry about caliber ... NO handgun (save maybe a .454Casull or hotter) is going to stop a determined grizz so really any handgun he's carrying is just going to buy him a few seconds to get the ATV pointed in a good direction and start moving.

I'm assuming he's not new to shooting, so what handguns has he owned or shot in the past?

[Majic]

With diminished upper body strength he would probably be better off with a 12 guage shotgun than any high horsepower handgun.

[RooK]

Pistol for bear, three cartridge come to mind:

10mm, .45 Super, .460 Rowland

10mm: Glock, Witness, Kimber, Dan Wesson
.45 Super: Any modern .45 (not just 1911s) in good condition. Beef up the springs and have at it.
.460 Rowland: Any modern 1911 from a major manufacter. Kit from Clark is just shy of $300 I believe.

Those are your options, period if you don't want to spend a fortune. The 10mm and .45 Super are almost identical in ballistics. They'll push the same weight bullets to the same speed (200gr @ 1200fps/230gr @ 1050fps). You can get about 100fps more from the 10mm with a 6" barrel.

The .460 Rowland is a powerful. It would be my pick on top of the good 1911. If you want to keep costs reasonable, get a Springer Mil-Spec and buy the kit. Less than $800 and you have a nice setup. 230gr @ 1350fps

Forgot to add, if you get a 10mm, you'll have to handload the ammo or buy from Double Tap, Reeds, or Georgia Arms for ammo. Normal factory fodder is underloaded below specs. Only Winchester's silvertip even seems to come close.